The State of Platform Fighters 

The saddest and funniest thing about this entire state of affairs is how it means that Multiversus is _not_ a Smash killer, but it _is_ a Smash killer killer. 😂😭

There is at least one person out there who saw that ahri render on the thumbnail and thought 2xko got canceled when they weren't looking LOL

It should be noted that it was Multiversus going offline for a year that shut down the LOL platform fighter. They didn’t look at the current state of Multiversus and go “my god, it’s so awful, this proves it can’t be done!”

Come play melee, where the game dies every week, yet somehow it’s still alive after 20 years

All of these smash clones have no casual modes for people to enjoy. Casual modes are how you get people to take your game more seriously, casuals eventually turn into hardcore players. All modern fighting games have learned this, which is why Mortal Kombat, Street Fighter 6, and Tekken 8 have sold well. All of these games have a story mode, arcade mode, and mini-games within their broader fighting game. Smash bros is the king of casual fighting fun. And subsequently no other smash clone have any good casual content. NASB 1 had a strong IP and targeted only a hard core fan base and launched extremely bare-bones with no other content than online 1 v 1, Multiverses had a strong IP originally targeted a hardcore audience but had no ranked or causal game modes. NASB 2 had strong IP and somewhat competent game modes, but people felt burn from the bare-bones first game. Rivals 1 sold well and didn't have any good casual content, but it was because of the character creator, it made the game have an everlasting effect on casuals and the hardcore because of that. The issue is these games put competitive as too high of a standard and leave the casual players behind.

Offbrand games publishing Rivals 2 is perfect. Ludwig being involved is huge.

Treasure Planet is considered a failure and its one of Disney's best and most unique movies ever.

I think multiversus biggest problem rn is how you get characters. It cannot be this grindy. I played the beta a ton and have all characters. But for the newer players I can see it not being fun as it takes so long to get just one character. Offline and custom NEED to have the full roster.

Music mixing is insanely loud, I had to stop watching halfway through cause it was too distracting

honestly i think the only platfighter that actually has a name for itsself as its own thing is Rivals of aether (and also rushdown revolt but thats too small.)

I played NASB2 for the first time this last week, that game is so underappreciated! Within a day, I was feeling old Melee tech start to come out and then when I realized how insane the meter system is, it all clicked. This is the best designed platform fighter with the lowest player count. That game deserves HYPE

The Riot Plat Fighter would have been absolutely gigantic. Any of the Hardcore Smash players I know in EU, also play league. There are SO many league players. It would have been bigger than Smash.

I think its almost criminal rivals have no real player base, the game performs so well and has great mechanics

if rivals 2 fails we might just be screwed. at least the competitive play

smash has the best presentation out of any and feels actually premium with only rivals 2 as of recent coming anywhere close. This is what makes pool party cancellation sad for me since it would have been likely on the same level of smash or at least near considering what the team at aether studios has done with rivals 2, imagine the same level of dedication and budget as 2xk0. I hope it gets revitalized someday, maybe after 2xko takes off and settles in. Even if it doesnt follow a melee-like route, I think it would still be super fun and something that not so much dethrone or rival smash but be a solid alternative for most people

Multiversus has the most potential, if they cancel this game then it will be truly be heartbreaking. I just hope they make the right decision moving into season 2 and listen to the majority, not the minority or try to make everyone happy bc that ends up leading to nobody being happy

One thing that Smash does well, is that it's a SOLID CASUAL game. Literally that is how I got into Smash. I'm not good at Smash but it's always refreshing to see that I can introduce it to friends who are also casual.

Rivals 2 is coming and NASB 2 is RIGHT THERE and y'all wont even touch it for some reason!

Nasb2 has been the hardest sell of my life to my friend group, but the few that I've gotten to try it have a really been taken with it The brand damage from 1 is insane, only compounds the issue of comparing the polish to smash

if multiversus is dying its WBs own fault, they are handling the game beyond poorly.

Rivals of Aether 2 is happening soon, right?

Multiversus had the most potential. I just hope they make the better decision moving into season 2 and listen to the real players, not the audience of anyone can play no skill needed and make a communication team cause it's insane MVS has no Communication team for people to talk to or for them to really talk to us.

I know the situation looks relatively grim but I’m actually pretty optimistic. We need to understand platform fighters are over a decade newer than classic 2D fighting games and the main exponent of the genre is Nintendo creating a type of golden standard that’s made the formula difficult to emulate. Despite the numerous flops I think it’s the first time I’ve seen a rising interest in the genre as a whole. Not only with established games like Ultimate and Brawlhalla but upcoming ones like Rivals 2 and Combo Devils that also have me really excited. If they manage to sustain a considerable fan base and a new smash game is announced I can see this type of game really take off in the coming years.

I love multiverse, but not its online with nerds. for me, it's the most accessible game that I can call anyone (friends or streamers) and fight with them 1v1 and neither of us has to spend a penny

If flash party wasnt pay to win id play it more

Ya multiversus got me into fighting games off the ips alone. Which then led to me getting into competitive melee and ult. I think pfg have been doing a good job and I think multiversus will be amazing once ranked drops :)❤

I just want a Smash Bros that has a working online... I hate trying to play Smash Bros and it lags half the time. The only good thing about MVS is that the online isn't so laggy.

Rivals 2 is incredible, so I have no worries.

damn bro this video felt like you were saying goodbye to MVS. Here's to hoping 💚💚

the only platform fighter that’s even close to making it besides smash is rivals of aether. can’t wait for rivals 2 to come out

Rivals 2 is gonna do okay but it’s not gonna be a big ip at all.

Nickelodeon All Star Brawl 2 was put down far too quickly, the game is great and has had a resurgence thanks to Gamepass as well. I'd say its time to give that game the credit it deserves too.

I really think Rivals 2 is set to do really well. It’s getting more polished each beta-patch, it’s got a great dev team, and it now has backing from Ludwig.

Smash is for everyone, competitive Platform fighters are not.

Honestly, I feel the declining playerbase of MVS relaunch is due to WB likely forcing PFG to meet a clearly too strict deadline to have released the game. Between the features that have been missing from the beta to the lack of polish of the characters and UI, it seems like PFG needed a good 1-2 additional months of dev time to let the game cook, but instead it was rushed out half baked. I have hope that the game will eventually become a masterpiece, but I’m fearing that it’ll be too late by the time it does because it’s initial impression left such a sour taste in everyone’s mouths. I know I’m still enjoying the game and play daily, but I can’t lie when I say that I wouldn’t really recommend new players try out the game with so many quality of life features still missing

Playstation allstars should comeback

23:35 they only make hype through twitter.

A lot of interesting points here. I think an important thing to keep in mind is that just because Riot canceled the game for now doesn't mean that they will never reconsider. Looking at the market right now, the lukewarm success of NASB and MSV is an indicator that even if a Riot platform fighter were to come out with a platform fighter the audience is a little burned right now.

i think all of this platform fighter stuff is just a testament to smash bros that its a really really REALLY good video game, other games looking to get that same success smash has are facing an extremely competent rival in the platform fighting game space

its funny I wanted to now about the state of platform fighters, so i literally googled "the state of platform fighters". Did not expect to find a semi-recent video released by a credible source with that exact title.

I remember when Project L was announced I made a comment that I wish they'd have made a platform fighter in the LoL universe instead and I got blasted for it lol. So sad to hear that there actually was a platform fighter in the making and now its cancelled :(

I think a major reason it was cancelled is that Tencent is a Chinese company and China is sort of collapsing. It's not super noticeable yet if you dont keep tabs on China, with the exception of their real estate collapse which in LA and many other cities worldwide is kinda hard to miss, but they are in a deflation spiral, more than a dozen cities are completely underwater, people are openly and brazenly attacking Xi personally, their youth population is literally giving up on life en masse and sleeping in public bathrooms, Hong Kong is now essentially just a money laundering hub, and their provincial govts are going after pension payments from up to 10 years ago, retroactively un-paying government employees. Tencent is still I think the largest corporation, but they are contracting

NASB2 is really good by the way. Very alive too.

Main problem is they are HUGE on monetization bc of WB. And less for content. Year later we lost content that we enjoy. We now have to PAY to toast after matches. Skins that take no work yo make are expensive as hell. "Story mode" very cheaply put together with the buy these gems to play more. 2 maps for the entire release. 3 characters. 4 nos with a ton of reused assets. I had over 100 hours in this game. One of the few reviews i put out about the game being great. But they just killed it. And will continue to over hype and spit in the faces of the people who backed them up before the release

Great video void, I appreciate you going over in great detail the things various platform fighters have done right and wrong. I just really wish you went over the microtransaction situation with Multiversus, as it's a large part of why new players leave the game quickly. I know you generally want to speak optimistically about the game but the microtransactions are a huge part of the problem that aren't being talked about enough / pushed out of the conversation. I also understand it's a free to play model so microtransactions are a given but the pricing has been very egregious. most new players can only unlock 1 character and the rest are unobtainable unless you spend real money on them. Thanks again for using your platform to offer advice to these companies

Nick smash was just featured at GDQ and it was in a bundle supporting the charity. I installed it and really like the roguelirlte mode. I don't think the online is as good as MV tho

Multiversus has two possibilities to become a NASB we’re it dies in another Month or a Brawlhala we’re it takes time until it becomes better Game

All I want is to play three person FFA with my two friends that I play Smash with. Why on earth does Multiversus only do 2 or 4 player. It’s not possible for me to play that way.

I feel this in my heart too, being a massive plat-fighter guy since I have played almost everyone I can't get my hands on, but it just comes down too something I have been saying for years, "There are very few Smash fans that are willing to play your game full time, and even less of those players even own something else other than a Switch."

Riot just spread themselves way too thin. I've been playing their games since the company started, so I enjoyed the few single player games they made. But that's being a HUGE fan of the IP, the games were pretty lackluster. If they just focused on a few games for longer they would have been amazing. Also why make 2 fighting games at the same time?

We just gotta keep supporting Multiversus. It has the potential to go on a long time

Multiversus has to turn things around with its monetization and if it does it might regain its footing

Please god let it be rivals 2 so we can set a new platform fighting standard. But I also agree Nick all star brawl 1 was so fun on release, if they released a finished product with those game mechanics it would still be around today.

how to have fun in platform fighters again: -buy rivals of aether -pick etalus -realize etalus has the sickest movement and combo game of all time -profit

I really think once comp comes out for MVS it’ll get a lot better for both casual players and competitive players since casuals won’t feel overwhelmed and competitive players have a place to make them feel like the game is worth playing

Can you play Garnet next after Agent Smith. Garnet needs some love

Bring back PSASBR!

To me, it would be badass if games like Smash ultimate would be solidified and played for years and years, like sports. To play basketball, you just need a ball and hoop and you're good to go. I understand the decline though. Video games are different because everyone knows there's almost always a new one to be released around the corner.

15:50 i stand by this "theory", i don't have a single nintendo console. My first real gripe about multiversus rn is that its deceptively "heavy", this is not a problem for high end PC gamers, but i know its a real issue on xbox if i'm not wrong, and its also an issue for me who has a potato PC. Even with lowest settings i'm still dropping frames especially in 4player modes. I think this is just an optimization issue, cause i personally know some games which seems heavy but in actuality is lighter and can run on my PC just fine. Another thing i have an issue is the PvE mode, for a casual player its too "grindy" i personally play a lot of other games, and rn the format is saying only play this game for hours for very little reward which i don't really like. If you're completely F2P too, obtaining new characters is wayyy too slow, 20hrs and only unlocked 3 characters. There needs to be a permanent specific PvE mode which you can unlock a specific character as a reward or something, retroactively you will get fighter currency instead equivalent of the character if you already unlocked it. This feels way more rewarding than getting 1/100 exp of a gem or 10/3000 fighter currency. They're trying too hard into making the players play the game for a long time but ends up shooing the players away instead.

11:07 Game devs need to just do it like this Brawlhalla graphics with big name I.Ps, and I agree that was a dumb move lmao Spongebob and Patrick look 100x better in Brawlhalla than the actual game by Nickelodeon lmal how? 11:46 Somebody tell da94quan that even Smash brothers Melee was miles ahead of NASB and Multiversus lol it was as cheesy and broken but a million times less predatory you actually you know unlocked characters through gameplay only, all of them, every single last one with no coins, no fighter perks currency, no prestige aka "you bought something so heres some tokens" currency needed

Simple explanation with the state of platform fighters is that these companies have to compete with a community that doesn't like the genre itself, they just like Smash and if this gatekeeping status quo is not dealt with soon, the genre will eventually die with Smash when the series is finally over. Smash games have had their share of problems as well but the community itself chooses to stay complacent in it because they refuse to see or welcome anything different, all because it's been around for so many years without any competition. A developer could come out with a game that over exceeds Smash in gameplay mechanics and roster and this community would STILL try to compare it to Smash and belittle it. The community has an "old guard" complex when it comes to the genre and apart from some being weirdos, this is one of the reasons why they'll never be fully accepted in the FGC. Like you don't see us saying Tekken is a Virtual Fighter clone or Guilty Gear is a Street Fighter clone. It's just mad goofy, it's not so much a developer problem, it's mostly a community problem that has platform fighters in the state that it's in.

Simple solution, play Rivals of Aether and Rivals 2 when that comes out.

Maybe a big problem why a lot of none smash platform fighters struggle and fail is because they take to much influence from melee and not the other games in the series as well as trying to focus in on the hardcore fans way too much

Gross monetization, missing features we used to have, and desync's cancelling matches for the first few weeks of Multiversus definitely destroyed the playerbase. Sadly we still have gross monetization and are slowly getting features we used to have back. Doesn't matter if the gameplay's fun if people can only play 2 characters without dropping money or they would have had to play before on the first launch.

22:55 Dude, please, my heart is tender right now! You didn’t have to pronounce “hard” so hard. 🤣

Can't blame them, the community for platform fighters seem terrible to develop for. Too many different opinions on how the game should feel. That said I don't see their 2XKO game doing any better. I actually think a platform fighter would have a better shot at being successful, so that is disappointing.

I believe in Rivals 2

Riot would've canceled it either Way

Ngl my heart dropped when I thought it was 2xko getting canceled, Ive been so hyped for that, but never even heard of this platform one

it was in development for a very very long time

we need a roadmap

Im not into most plataform fighters but i really like MvS and hope it keeps going

Smash has the best feel ans cleanest game play. My second favorite platform idea was revolution something but having a battle royal in a fighting game/king of hill was very fun but tge gane was dead. Rn i play multiversus. Id play nickelodeon if it had more player because it is fun theres all good but theres just not enough players. Thats why there has to be a smash killer for it to stay

@gsmvoid what platform fighter is mechanically better than smash? U say not even close so now im intrigued

The problem Smash is one of the most beloved platform fighters ever and actually has a monopoly on it. Every platform fighter will be compared to it and if something is not like Smash it will be hated. Many people just say "game (...) is bad just play Smash." just because it has other mechanic and playstyle. It also doesn''t help if every third video is "Game (...) is so bad" or " ... was a mistake." I also think Multiversus is good and fun. It's more beginner friendly. NASB is also a great game. The second game is also great but it is also compared to Smash and because of the price there is a small price hurdle. It is also pretty difficult to release a game and then balance and patch it because when a game didn't make a good impression at the start many players won't have patience for fixes. I really don't know how these problems can be fixed. It is just sad that many promising fighting games can't established themselves.

Its wild to think that most of the Smash games are just recycled assets and much doesnt change except a few new characters

Maybe it's really a blessing in disguise that we didn't the League community spreading into platform fighters like an infectious disease lol

They canceled it even despite it having LoL characters in bikini, which LoL fans would go in debt for, that's alarming.

I’d argue the only mention of Multiversus in why they stopped the game is a big red flag. If they were talking about how even with recognizable characters the player base drops then not mention NASB2 is wild. What it really shows me is this LoL game was gonna be as money grubbing as Multiversus. This really feels like they saw that Multi wasn’t making money and they realized it wouldn’t be worth investing on a F2P game with predatory micro transaction

That's something I wanna say and I'm yeah I'm putting an example on this one with Sora. Sora was and STILL IS my main reason why I played Smash Bros. Ultimate. I have been wanting to have Sora on smash for years and it never came to pass since Smash Bros. Wiiu and 3DS and other guest fighter on the game. Smash Flash 2 helped me dull the sadness and disappointing feelings when I played as Sora and it not only made me feel abit better, but also made me what it feels to play as him in smash bros AND gave me abit of hope for Sora. If Sora was not in Ultimate I would frankly be upset hands down, BUT I would move on and continue play Smash Flash 2. And that alone shows and tell you that there will be another platform fighting game that will back you up just in case. I don't even care if Sora is high, mid, or even low tier at best, the tier list was and still is futile to me. I will still play as Sora nonetheless why? Because as I said earlier, Sora is the main reason why I play smash bros and I will not let that change even if there were new platform fighters or even when people say this game is dead or even they keep saying Sora is bad. I.DO.NOT.GIVE.TWO.SQUATS. about it. Because I ain't no hypocrite. Playing as Sora is just fun for me, and he is in smash and i got who i wanted, in your face Coney. No one and nothing will make me change my mind. Not even Sora haters, INCLUDING CONEY. Nothing.

I think platform fighter doesnt need to be 'smash bros-like" there are so much platform fighter games that arent smash bros-like. digimon rumble arena, one piece grand battle etc nowadays they always want to make game that very similar to already successful game, of course they are cancelled

How is smash not mechanically good? Despite some of the qol (lag and horrible matchmaking), I think the in-game mechanics are quite intricate.

If it helps, im giving Multiversus a chance because of your vids. Keep making a difference so we can have a diverse future of this genre!

It sucks i really want a good platform fighter and the all stars 2 mechanics actually feel really good but most of the characters are meh.. I can not get into multiversus it just feels too wierd.

I enjoyed playing NASB 1&2 and MVS a lot, but what upset me about their design was that the focus was on the competitive aspect. When comparing it to Smash, both series try to emulate Melee in a lot of ways, particularly the pace of the gameplay. I think this goes completely against what has made the Smash series so successful. Smash is a party game first and foremost while also having enough intricate mechanics to have a very viable competitive scene, and overtime has had to find a good balance on game speed. This is why both NASB2 and the rerelease of MVS slowed gameplay down a lot, but the previous mistakes already ruin the perspective of their series. I agree that a platform fighter's IPs are one of the most important parts for making something that captures the same success as Smash, and Nickelodeon and WB are certainly popular to do so. It may be too late already for those companies. I think the only other IPs that have a shot are either Shounen Jump or Disney.

rivals 2 is so so so much better than nasb and mv, it shouldnt be put on the same level.

The game is fun I don't get all the doom and gloom. Cool characters and a good cast of characters. Bugs are expected with anything but people's expectations are just so damn high I guess. I personally think the problem with a game like this is the big dogs forcing a free game especially to release before they're at a comfortable spot with bug fixes. Maybe their QA team isn't good or they don't have the funding to have the employees. IDK but people have to stick around to prove to the big dogs we are interested in this thing but it sucks or its rough right now. Make it better. Greatest example of that is Dead By Daylight. That game was the buggiest unbalanced piece of shit when it released by BHVR because they had only made Mobile games prior to that. They got a ton of players like 2 million sales in their first couple of weeks and they really scrambled to make the game better and even though it took them like 2-8 years depending on who you ask its in a really good place now, and nothing can compete with it. Companies try to make other games like it and nobody gives them a chance after the first month because they're not as polished or good as Dead By Daylight. So they all die and we have Dbd there with no competition. Multiversus can very well become the free smash bros and be better if enough time and attention is given to it. Characters already have that love and care in their designs they just have weird ass hitboxes and the online isn't always good. Though that I don't put onto the game because in those alpha tests the game's net was the best in any fighting game I've ever experienced outside of SF6. Open beta with all platforms happened and console players and people without good stable and WIRED connections are what ruined that. That's going to be the case with any game regardless of the genre. Some people are far from the servers and that's not their fault, but aside from that you've just gotta give these games time. Yes they had a whole year but that was a year without feedback and real world testing. Its a good game with big ambitions just let them cook and try to have fun at least. EDIT: Text wall but if you read it thank you

Multiversus is just ass in general.

My man talking when he's never played TMNT Smash Up or The Digimon Rumble arenas ;)

I think you dont even need ips and shit. Just pick a topic for characters. Say aliens. Make bipedal quadrapedal as many different crazy movesets mine would be a ooze slime alien named xexolth. Like just have fun with it. Later on when your rolling in money from all the creativity and polish youve poured into the game then big ips hit you up. Like alien, invader zim. Marvin. And then youve got major companies hitting you up for success not the other way around. Be okay to do it alone. Fuck it ill start today on it lol see you in some years 😂

Bro a anime platform fighter would be hella gassss

There is not enough talk about quality/polished gameplay and design. A lot of these platform fighters are not finished and very unpolished when they are released

also riot really wants all of their games to be HEAVY in the competitive space and they really pivoted by cancelling the pff. Platform fighters are never taken serious competitively on big stages. they want to be at big tournaments like sf anf tekken and mk.

You should play Brawlhalla! I’d love to introduce you to the community!

It’s better to have a little hope in some of the hardest of times than no hope at all. I don’t care what people are gonna reply, I do have hope that PFG is going to deliver better stuff as time goes on. We have seen through the patches and update that they are listening to what players are asking for. The article may have hit hard, but things can at least make a comeback or stabilize. Just gotta give them their moment

Imma keep playing multiversus till it revovers. They need to add characters that ppl want to play and like 20 more stages. Some of tge rift modes i hope can be in an aracade mode like overwatch. Were i can fight with other with unlimited junos. Or the shark week stuff were its 2 platforms and sharks at the bottom. Even the vollyball was fun. Multiversus needs to have this mode where they put all of the stuff in pvp and rotate it

The unfortunate truth is that “if it’s not smash, then it sucks”. That’s the community’s toxic response to every platform fighter lol. MVS is not perfect don’t get me wrong, but this game is the best competitor to smash.

Feels weird to put Smash on the thumbnail when its just in a state where the most recent game is finished and will almost certainly be back with the Switch's successor. Multiversus had one of the most insane fall-offs I've ever seen, though; you know its bad when other companies cancel a game in response to your failure lol

I don't think it's hard to see why MV and NASB don't pick up. They reek of cheap. Cheap models, animations, gameplay feel, effects... everything feels budget as hell. And, with MV, the way the game's set up to be a F2P IP crossover live-service heavy payola type of game, they just feel like cash grabs. It's hard to say they're soulless because their dev teams clearly put a lot of passion into them, but the budget is so obviously low that they end up feeling like knockoffs, especially since they have little to no singleplayer/casual content to make them feel like fuller experiences that stand out on their own. There's no charm.

All aboard the Smack Studio train!