The Story of the Lost Mid-Engine MG 

You can almost imagine the designers being told to stop working on this innovative and imaginative sports car, and to go and help the Allegro design team with the ashtrays. Then losing the will to live.

Brilliant work, Ed. That's the way car stories should be.

This channel has gone from interestingly decent, to grippingly brilliant. Thank you for your hard work.

A superb retrospective on a car I’d never heard of. Excellent work!

My heart is in my throat. And I am in shock. If these cars had come into fruition, there would be an MG dealership right now in NYC.

A highly impressive piece of work, congratulations.

Brilliant story, thank you. I loved many of these interesting cars, we had the last of the breeds in the Austin Kimberley and Tasman here in Australia. They were a bit old but roomy and good to drive. My MGF however brilliant to drive and lively to look at had its hydro suspension leaks and sat rather low, ruining the ride. I could not afford to have it repaired nor could I afford the coil conversions so I put up with it for a while , eventually sold to someone with more time and money. The various minis and mokes I had were all a bit naf in the wet, but just fun to drive and easy to fix. I miss those old British cars. Overall however whenever I see a morris 1100 I see Basil Faulty belting it with a branch. I that image sums up the experience of owning one here in Aus in the 70’s.

Great story, thanks for putting it together so well 😊

You know so so much! I'm ever so pleased I watched this. TY for sharing your expertise. You've a talent for presentation!! 😊

Brilliant video as always Ed - thanks Steve

Fascinating and interesting as always! Great episode thanks Ed!

I’ve never heard of this car before but watching your video I feel like you’ve actually driven it so vivid are your descriptions! Another “if only” moment.

Thanks great work, that was a good Sunday morning viewing!👍👌

Did my apprenticeship at a BL dealer from '72 and have to say the E series never gave us any trouble. The only warranty repair I can remember was re shimming tappets on a new one once. Same with diffs on Marinas and Sherpas, never repaired a single one; very different when I was at Ford at we were constantly rebuilding Salisbury axles. I won't mention Marina gearbox's though, as I rebuilt what seemed like millions of them. The Maxi was a cracking car but very dull although the fleets seemed to like them ( I think they got them cheap, and I cant see many reps being pleased to be handed the keys). I remember the motorways then and if you looked at lane three it would be full of reps in Cortinas going flat out!

Nice video mate, well presented and researched, lovely to see 1800s and Maxis, my Dad had both when I was a kid

Thank you so much for another great British car history lesson.

Ed, brilliant as always. In an alternate MGD universe of my youth, schoolmate mate Roy would have been drawing MGDs everywhere and not TR7s, Steve would have bought an MGD not a B and I may have adored the D in the same way I did the X1/9 lol. EX234 looks very similar to the early somewhat feminine looking Alfa Spyder. the AD070 picture used looks a bit like a Japanese shopped Marina Targa and some real similarities in the XJS back end styling to the MGD.

The suspension was fantastic, yet it is the interior space that marked the 1800 in mind. It was considered, and indeed appeared to be, a small car by Australian standards, and yet it seemed to be a Tardis once in either the front or rear seats.

Brilliant video - well done, i'm now a dedicated fan.

All right gang (those of us who’ve been watching for a long while), let’s all share these ever more awesome videos around and get Ed to 100k. If viewership grew at the rate of production quality and content, we would be there.

Wet informative and enjoyable video. Thank you.

Anyone else notice the Jaguar XJS resemblance, around the rear window. Side butresses too, by the look of it too.

Very good and entertaining analysis! Your presentations have really matured over the years - excellent!

Great video as always Ed! 👍

Growing up just east of Indianapolis, I was fascinated when Lotus brought their rear-engined 29 to the Brickyard. Beyond being interested in Lotus racing cars, I soon became aware of their road cars. Having a family requiring 4-doord and a backseat ruled out an Elan and Elite. The arrival of the mid-engined Lotus Europa got my attention, but again growing family made a 4-door sedan a necessity. As my finances improved, a Toyota MR-2 soon got my attention. Bought on in 1987. It was the most fun I've ever had driving.

Nicely narrated!👍

A great video, Ed! It's sad to see what has happened to the MG name...

I did enjoy watching this, I had 2 MGFs over the years, nice cars to drive, one got written off from a rear end shunt though. Had a Mazda MX5, ok but for the rear end stepping out in damp conditions, but my favourite was the Toyota MR2, a gem of a car, handled like a go-cart, really fun to drive, as all sports cars should be. But going back to the MGF, as a front engine car, it was a really good car and fun to drive, couldn't fault it.

While the Hydrolastic Suspension system was good, there wasn't enough damping from front-to-rear for my liking on my modded 1310cc Cooper S swapped Aussie Mini Clubman S. However, among many of the changes to make it a high-performance Mini, was to bolt a pair of front shock-brackets to the subframe (yes, the threaded-nuts were welded on the sub-frames regardless of which type of suspension!), but there weren't any places to bolt the shocks onto the suspension-arms, so it did require some drilling & tapping to fit the original Mini shock-studs to the arms! As my Mini was one of the last Aussie cars to have the Hydrolastic System, it was relatively easy to find the parts needed in 1980!

Good video, thank you! Interesting that Gilbern also tried to build a mid engined car with the Maxi engine but they got as far as a prototype (which has now been completed). Looking forward to more interesting videos from you.

Very interesting - as an ex-owner of an MGF, I feel glad they got there in the end. All the logic of mid engine and hydragas ride (and flawed but zingy and brilliant K-Series) translated into a masterpiece. Pity it was so underrated, I had an MX5 afterwards and hated it, sold it after 6 months!

If the X1/9 and MR2 are any indication, it could have been a success. But knowing BL I'm certain they would have found a way of messing up if they would have produced it.

How ironic that Ed never mentions the Lotus Europa in the background behind the MGB V8 as he leans on it during his presentation. He does mention the later Lotus Elite, but the Europa was a direct competitor to the proposed mid-engined MGD, being introduced in 1966 and produced through 1975, the period the MGD would have come online.

Another superb delivery of a professionaI video. 👍 I thought you might have mentioned the Austin Zanda which was also to use a rear mounted Maxi engine. A lovely looking concept car by Harris Mann (glass-fibre mock-up at Gaydon). The idea being later revived as the ADO21. I seem to remember that later Maxis and all 1750 versions ditched the cable gear linkage and replaced it with rods.

Great video which is well informed. I have had Austin and Cooper Minis, Sprite, MGB, Recently MGRV8. Sadly the MX5 had a clean run globally because of the BMC "fisheads" at the top sadly.

Your videos get better and better. So much information here and obviously you've done your research. Having owned a Eunos Roadster - 12 years old when I bought it - over three years I put up a lot of miles - over 100 thousand and noting fell off - unlike the 18 month old Spitfire I'd bought may ears earlier. I always admired the MGB - the GT was beautiful but it would have had to be a roadster for me but it was always just a little out of my reach. I imagine though that it would have been closer to the Triumph than the Mazda in terms of reliability and usability as a daily driver. The MX5, although in several actual incarnations has sold more than four times the MG|B , which makes it the best selling car in the world.

50,000 subscribers. Pretty sure it will be a large multiple of that in times to come. Terrific content. Always informative and fun.

That MG DGT looks similar to the mockup for the Holden Torana GTR-X from 1970. The TR7 looked ridiculous with 'Murican "5 MPH" bumpers.

The MGR... the first works restomod. A very special car.

Ed you must excuse the cognitive difficulties of an old man for my total misunderstanding of the announcement of your expansion onto more social media platforms, which this idiot took as your excellent reviews being dropped from Utube. So you have absolutely no idea just how delighted to have this MG sports care tour de force pop up today. Phew! I hope to avoid undue sycophancy but you are THE go to site for such well researched, written and presented classic car reviews, delivered with confidence, boldness and with a touch of fun. Indeed you are nonpareil in the motoring firmament! This history of MG sports cars was great and enjoyably which filled in the gaps of numbering about which I had no idea. Brilliant! I look forward to my continued enjoyment of your site on Utube 'cos this old codger only has this technophobic choice! Rob 😊

Amazing video having grown up being a car enthusiast as a child & my father too the history is fascinating tkx

Well researched and presented in an interesting, informative and sober manner. For me at least, this is the way that car videos should be and it's much appreciated. One thing that always crops up in videos about BMC/BMH/BL is the shortage of money to develop new products. It seems that from the late 1950s onwards the management forgot that profits were essential to keeping the business healthy; the Mini being a good example of this, despite its innovative design.

Look at the prototypes compared to the crap they turned out. It’s mind boggling what those people managers was up to

Great film. I'd never even heard of the MG-D prototype. One little thing about the E-Series engine; I could be wrong but I think the cylinder head was cast iron. Only that large finned rocker cover was alloy.

Fantastic video. Makes me want to take my 70 B out today!

Another incredibly interesting presentation... Again very well researched... Loved the old video footage... Thank you... Roger....

The AC3000ME started out as the Diablo Project using a Maxi drive train in mid engined configuration. When AC took it over they lost years by redesigning it to take a Ford V6 3 litre and a bespoke gearbox. The resulting car was a gem. But the delay in getting it to market hampered the eventual success of the project. Also available in the seventies were a number of mid engined "specialist" and kit cars using the Mini drivetrain in mid engined configuration. Cars such as the GTM, DeepSanderson and Unipower GT A later car by GTM, The Libra, used Rover Metro drive trains in mid engined configuration. I heard that MG Rover had one for evaluation when designing the MGF.

Great stuff!

In the pre-interent era a magazine reviewer described the braking in a B as feeling like "Shit, I've just hit a brick wall". 🤣

Thanks muchly for another corking feature, Ed - superb! Here's my 6d-worth: (i). That corporate attitude of "That'll do! - it's still selling well, so we'll just rest on our laurels" was in such stark contrast to most other free-market/capitalist manufacturers and was the equivalent of signing a Death Warrant a couple o'years in advance. (ii). Those FLYING BUTTRESSES HAD TO BE THERE in order to allow for such a TALL engine, but were an excellent way to mask the engine's height (its 'weakness') - IMHO, an excellent design master-stroke! - I'd speculate that the mid-engined ADO21 was probably TOO radical, for the staid Corporate SUITS, I suspect. AFAIK, Ray Brocklehurst was primarily responsible for following through/developing its design - the actual concept sketch having come from the great Harris Mann, in mid-1969 - admittedly borrowing somewhat from the Ferrari Dino 206GT. - The sad ending of this MGD was that it was completed and presented in late 1970 but then 'killed' in December of that year, being crushed shortly thereafter.

A very interesting video, thanks for taking so much trouble. You forgot to mention that Leyland management were so inept and the financial controls were absolutely appalling. Consequently and with the aid of the disruptive trade unions, the quality control and build quality were unbelievably bad. BMC/Leyland had no idea of the costings of their vehicles and made very little money, even on the minis. Ford, on the other hand, knew to the penny what their vehicles would cost before they started production plus how much profit they would make. There was a storey at the time that when the mini came out Ford senior management phoned up their BMC/Leyland opposite numbers to tell them they would not make any money out of the mini. On the subject of quality, the early minis and 1100's were so badly put together they used to leak like sieves. A friend in the early 60's bought a new mini and when it leaked returned it to the dealer to be rectified. The factory recommended solution was to punch some holes in the floor to let the water out. That was the mentality of the manufacturer.

A mg r v8 was pretty well sorted out, I did a fair few mods on mgbs fitting mg r v8 bits like fitting complete front and rear suspension and brakes. It completely changed the vehicle, just wish the car was just a bit lighter.

Both of the MGB replacements are great looking cars, the earlier green one is very reminiscent of the Alfa Romeo Spider, and the later one is just plain stunning for 1970.

I went to look at the MGF at its launch in my local dealership with my Dad and brother. As an MG midget owner really wanted to like it and was in the market for a new sports car. The salesman at the dealer obviously thought I was too young as I looked a young 20 despite being nearly 30 and focused on my dad and brother pretty much ignoring my entirely. Dad and brother got a test drive and I didn’t. I got to sit in it and was totally disappointed as it’s saying position was very saloon like not sports car at all. When the salesman was told by my dad that he should really be focusing on me since I was the person in the position of buying one. However by then I was not interested as it was more expensive than MX 5 and wasn’t in the same level. I told him it was too expensive, too slow and the driving position was like sitting on a sofa. Ended up buying a Caterham 7 and early on had a bit of a burn up on the road leaving an MG F for dead while I was running it in on

Another excellent vid that you managed to knock out of the park! Why is it whenever I watch any vid involving BMC/BL it ultimately tracks the useless decisions made by the incompetent management. Yeah I know about Red Robbo and his mates. I even remember watching the BBC news where he was shouting at the workers calling for another strike and out they went purely on a show of hands. But I can't help feeling that he would not have existed if it weren't for the utterly useless management that the workforce was saddled with .... 23:52 23:52

Very informative and eloquent presentation, if only the trade unions hadn’t been hell bent on ruining the UK car industry.

20:50 (Fiero too haha) Great video

I still want the MGR V8 stunning car in red ❤

The issue with ADO21 was that it didn't have huge support within MG itself. I was astounded to discover this when I interviewed the late Don Hayter, but the car would've had poor interior room and little luggage capacity (less than the MGB GT) - a problem for the North American market. Another issue were the engines, because whilst the E-series had a five-speed gearbox, the larger faster E6 only ever had a four-speed gearbox. I'm also pretty sure that ADO21 was only ever intended to run with steel suspension. The prototype certainly was running coils in the photos which Hayter had - featuring its de Dion rear set-up. Also, if BLMC were to run something more exotic then it's doubtful that it would've opted for Hydrolastic given the car's likely launch date. By 1972 BLMC had moved to Hydragas for the Allegro and it would appear in the 1975 Austin-Morris 18/22s. Completely understand your passion for this car though. So close to greatness.

Great video

there was also the Diablo concept with a Maxi engine which became the AC 3000- that would have been a very cool MGD !

Excellent video. I shuddered when I heard the MGF was 1995. Reminds me, I need to check my pension!! 😂

A very enjoyable video.

You would have thought that the law of averages would have helpful Leyland get one greatest hit from all the prototypes they churned out over the years. Then, I suppose we have to take sod's law into account. Great job Ed.

We had a works visit to the rover factory, at the end of the tour they had a mgr v8 on display next to the prototype MGF, as I remember they said most of the mgr’s were being exported to japan

I never heard of the MGD, which is a surprise as I followed the motoring press, I agree the nose needed to be 8'' shorter, BTW my favourite Scalextric car was an Austin Healy 3000

Fascinating. That crusty Alfa GTV illustrates another issue with IRS. This is the tendancy to mount the rear disc brakes inboard near the final drive. This is good for unsprung weight, but poor for sevicing. Jaguar and Rover please note. Actually, for a road car, which lives with road filth, it is better to have outboard drum rear brakes. The MGD could also have had a bigger brother with the Rover P6BS, if only... BMC ceased in 1966, and MG met Jaguar, via BMH, before meeting Triumph via Leyland in 1968.

No one seems to remember that the 2200 and 2600 sixes were built in Australia. The east/west Tasman and Kimberley. Both cars upgraded 1800s. They were 5 speed, fast and handled like a dream but a bit small for Australian distances. I had the 2600 version in NZ but spare parts had dried up, not a usual BLMC problem.

Very pretty car. I could see someone making a newer version with fender flares, and better tail-lights.

Same story over and over with BL. They did have some interesting developments in the pipeline but then they were cancelled by management because the current range was selling well enough. It is like they never heard of product development.

Thanks 🙏

The styling looks derivative of the OTAS of the early 70s, one of which I briefly owned. Tiny, but a lot of fun!

Wonderful Italian styling!

Interesting video, I was looking to buy an MGR apparently they only made one in old English white.

Great video, once again! Despite it's looks and innovations, the MG DGT with a Maxi engine would have been an unpleasant sports car. BL would NEVER have been capable of developing it successfully. Moreover, THE market for British sports cars was the USA but it was niche and the dealer network small and thinly spread. The TR7 was definitely right in those circumstances as it was understandable by both owners and mechanics. Unfortunately, the Japanese had fun cars too that were more reliable and better built than UK equivalents. It's very, very hard making cars that people really want to buy........ Time we put away those rose-tinted specs.

The British sports car engine development missed an important heart beat way back in the 1930s when several companies asked for government for money to compete against Germany and Italy whose company’s had the full backing of Hitler and Mussolini. In an ironic twist you wouldn’t see any Porsche’s, Ferrari’s or even Lamborghini’s today if it wasn’t for the early British racers who where dominating sports car racing at the time and who stimulated the desire to win.

Hang on, that's a copy of the Farina Alfa Duetto spider (6:15) not an MGA!!! Another great story of what should have been but never happened. Thanks Ed.

EX 234 - what a beautiful car. Shades of Afla Romeo Spyder and Sunbeam Alpine for sure, but it could have been a world beater. Difficult to imagine it's from the same umbrella organisation that gave us the Allegro.

As a concept, this looks stunning. Bang up to date for 1971. What a shame. 😕

Interesting and well presented video. The shortening of the front incorporating a spoiler would have worked wonders for this car, but the engine and gearbox would have let it down though. As with the TR7, the 2+2 version would have been advantageous and would have appealed to a larger market. Shame the idea all fell apart.

@frglee I rather think it was more like director room arguments saying, no people might like the MG range more but it's the Triumph name that must succeed over it. The starving of imports into North America for months and refusal to supply MGBs to try and ensure that the TR7 would have a successful launch was evidence of that. Let's not also forget the wonderful introduction of the TR8 and all the reliability and fire issues with the Triumph models. The MG name should have survived long after the Triumph when it came to sports cars. There was at least some Karma when the Triumph Spitfire production stopped before the MG Midget. For all the boardroom determination that went on to try and promote the demise of MG and support Triumph, it was actually Spitfire that went first. As someone who loved my British built MG Midgets in my youth, at one point I had two, one I was driving and a second I was renovating (on the cheap as most MG enthusiasts did, sourcing many parts from MG International scrap yard in Birkenhead) I drove Midgets for over 10 years and was an ardent supporter and believer in British cars. I only gave up my Midget because as the wife didn't drive and I then had my brand new Halewood built Black XR3i (with alloy wheels!), I really couldn't justify it anymore and didn't have the space. I always hoped there would be a new small MG Midget, not the +150lb rubber bumpered 1500 Spitfire engine version but a proper modern small MG. I thought the Midget was a lovely looking car and the only other car that caught my eye back then was the Fiat X19 'Lido' metallic black with almost white interior but I couldn't bring myself to even contemplate buying a foreign car! I never realised, or perhaps I'd forgotten MG had plans for the MGD GT, at the right price that could have been the perfect car but perhaps it was no surprise that it never made production when you consider MGB GT V8 only made production because Costello were upgrading 1800 MGBs and couldn't turn them out fast enough. BL even refused to supply them with HC engines and only allowed them access to the LC variants, which rather demonstrated just how determined those in control of BL were to press the self destruct button. A car company and a heritage that could have done so much more if only we had a leadership/management that was fit for purpose. It's a shame Sir Micheal Edwards couldn't have turned up sooner. Perhaps if he had, we could still have and be using some of the great British car names of old under British ownership.

How sad that we did not get the D it could have been extremely stylish car

@17:44 - tell me that if you took the front end of a 308, and glued it onto the back of a Fiero fastback, you wouldn't have THIS. :O (ok, save the tail lights)

7:27 The interior shot of Ex234 shows what I think is a TR7 steering wheel. The E series was originally intended to be a 1300, but in development it was decided that it wasn't pokey enough. The bores were already siamesed, so the only way to increase capacity was to lengthen the stroke to get 1500cc. That still was not enough, and it got lengthened again for 1750cc. BTW the 2200 E6 engine was designed to bolt to the 4-speed sump and gearbox of the 1800cc B-series. As was the O-series when it came along. The Rover T-series 16v engine was based on the O block. I wonder if you could put the T engine on the fwd sump gearbox (actually it is BEHIND the engine on the 1800 Landcrab and Princess etc) and have a 140bhp 2 litre Landcrab.

Looks like the love child of an Esprit and an XJS

The only BL car from that era that I had extensive experience with was the Dolomite Sprint. Lovely car. Give it fuel injection, better rear suspension bushes and fix the wandering head gasket problems and it could have been a world beater.

There was also a MGTF concept car with a MR2 style roof.

I had a 73 Midget in the mid 80s. IMO, the best MG.

That would've been a beautiful car. As an American, I'm envious of British sport cars of the 60's. I would love to have an old MG, Triump, or any other of those beautiful cars

The Morris 1800 was a lovely car in many ways but dad's drank oil as it grew old, say 4 quarts fuel for every quart oil! The suspension worked great, all those years, but eventually, he gave up and got himself a couple of SAABs, all without steering servo, even the 900 (a very early one).

You managed to ignore(?) probably one of the most popular, affordabe, and reliable mid-engined sports cars of the era. One whose production predated many that you did include in your discussion, having been on the market in 1969: The phenomenal Porsce 914.

It used to be said that the tension in BMC/bl between triumph and mg often meant that mg got the rotten end of the stick.

Superb . We have countless cars available from our community. Come and take your pick. All the best, Adam

Interesting video, and a real shame the idea wasn't followed up. That said, turbo charging the E series might have reduced the need for revs to produce power but the hydrolastic suspension would have simply said "cruiser" Springs and shocks for sports cars please, especially for the US market where ease of maintenance and commonly used types of components would be vital Even the MGF ended up with springs.

Similar to the Fiero in the States, bit of a miracle it was made, had pretty solid sales, but was held down because of the Firebird, Camaro, the Corvette. Can't have a more ckever car taking sales from other divisions.

Ha haaaaa!!! When I was a child I used to suffer from travel sickness really badly. But eventually it went away. About the time.................. ooooooooooooh, when my Dad sold his Austin 1100?? Now I know why😆😆😆 The combination of the hydrolastic suspension and the all pervading whiff of baked plastic car seat covers, that were themselves the colour of puke!!! I remember getting back home the one time and admiring my addition of go-faster vomit stripe all down the side of the car from the back window. AAAAhh the 70's

Great video. What about the MG E?

without computers the D love it love the look hell yeah like corvettes

Stunningly succinct and to the point. One small comment, Sir Alec Issagonis was not Greek, he was born into a part of the Ottoman Empire that is now present day Turkey. A common misconception. Cheers.

Why no mention of the Rover P6 BS, V8 mid-engine car designed by Spen King?