The Trouble with Transporters 

Opposed*

r/boneappletea

Yeah. And also i am your 1 thousandth like

what the fuck

HE HAS FOUND FLESH

He had to convince them. THAT DOESN'T MEAN IT'S THE TRUTH.

"Some weird clone"? But I'm a weird ME right now. Doesn't that mean it made a weirder me? What if it UNweirds me? The new, less weird me might not be insulted by that like the old weird me would have been, and that's just unacceptable.

There’s at least one plot line (specifically in Next Gen) where the transporter does clone someone

@@MrDarkx1000 It was literally referenced in this video.

Since you become data, is actually possible to make several copies without a problem

Yeah, right? Maybe its possible, but how do I profit from a copy of myself being an immortal machine, when I myself am still mortal?

And also even with cryonics, I find it unlikely that it would still really be "you" if your body could be thawed, even if it kept all your memories and personality.

@@sevans1414 Part for part should work

That is an actual conundrum and something you might rationally consider......unlike the guy who made this video who assumed its only natural to think walking into a teleporter and assuming it will kill and clone you instead of.....actually teleporting YOU is a weirdly paranoid soap box to stand on.

@@Gojiro7 i see you are new here, welcome

IMPOSTOR!! YOU'RE NOT NOVA THE DANCING SONG!!

Maybe imposter* so maybe ur also imposter, and maybe me, who knows?

@@The_Guit_ It is not a Theory but just fact that this is 'Matter-to-Energery'-Conversion. That IS what this tech is, duh. Grey should research more next time.

@@loturzelrestaurant can you elaborate

@@sallyl.9606 No, i dont think i can. not after all this time. I dont remember my thoughts when writing the comment anymore, just like i dont even remember this video here.

Big mood temp me, Big mood.

So the urge to press snooze is me unconciously thinking "EXISTANCE IS TORMENT I JUST WANNA DIE"

To be fair... that version of me has done so to himself.

Or the one that wakes up for a moment in the night and you don't even remember it.

I know im not a clone, cuz im still alive

Better hope they have absolutely zero copying errors.

@@FFKonoko *ERROR: File Corrupted, File will be automatically deleted*

Transporters are real life cut-and-paste

Funnily enough thats how saving works, you delete stored memory and then recreate it somewhere else

@@doc_siddio yeah but the data isn't deleted at first, it just becomes inaccessible and can be written over

A bit of a late comment.

So technically the existence of consciousness is magic because it cannot be explained by science

@@cralixthegameking4408 No, technically it's a sum of perceptional & behavioral rules, set by the neural network you call "brain". That's why if you mess with enough of those neurons, "you" isn't *_"you"_* anymore. (Alzheimer's, drugs, lobotomy, etc...) My point being, there's nothing "magical" to it, it's just very complicated & it looks like that in a glance. & the fact that we think of our consciousness as a static "whole" (which is far from the truth of course), only complicates things.

Plane?

@@miyu1424 that is my exact point

wronx

lots of Romulan ale

BOB BELL for the sleep part, but conciously teleporting... no thank you!

Knowledge is Power m8

Smith: then we have a deel?

Now i have to watch one more!

sujetoficticio happens every time haha

lol

That was me also after already having anxiety and insomnia.

Rip.

So you want to tell me the whole world isn't there just for me to play with? No way, you are just the random being my brain created for me to interact with.

Kudos for pretending to be alive, guys, but I'm the only real person in the world.

Cristof ... paging Cristof ... Cristof will you please call your office. /Truman show reference

How can you even sleep at night while giving "people" the benefits of the doubt

Troublingly, Transporting Tumbles would Truly, Terribly and Totally Terrify Turmoiling Travellers.

2024: The Trouble with Time Travel

1967: The Trouble with Tribbles

2024: The Troubles

The trouble with tribbles

why is this so true?

@@dato_4527 Yeah every molecule in your body isn't taken apart when you go to sleep

No if you nap you still sleep right

you see Ivan, when think about, transporter is only spicy nap.

Anwita Gadgil but a transporter is different because you simply sleep. In a transporter it’s different

Hello philosophy major

Grey*

me

Gary*

a white-ish shade of black

わoritoMKW Or a blackish shade of white.

I don't know why, but for some reason I keep seeing your comments everywhere.

+xisumavoid Now I imagine how you do grindy Minecraft stuff listening to Grey's and Brady's podcast like I do.

That wasn't the ending ;) keep watching

Xisuma!!!

+xisumavoid starting to think you're stalking me... you comment on every video I watch lately, and that's a pretty eclectic selection!

There was also an episode with Barkley staying conscious and aware during the entire process.

@@MrFurious176 and Hoshi having a full blown dream or hallucination during her transport

[Generic Username] bad boy

You big fat *****

Salem Grantham is that a hate comment or did I get wooosht

Yeeeeees

@@salemgrantham9081 that's only three *, so which swear word is that?

Aaah good one!

Well done you just doubled the existential horror 🤣

Are*

@@kevinboros7427 It's quoted

@@brendarojas5613 Shit

this isn't "old cgp grey", he used this style just for this episode

Bro this isn't "old CGP Grey". Is this his only "old" video you've watched? 😂

@@NoriMori1992 it was a joke

​@@jimmytheshadowleviathan7243 A joke that doesn't make any sense and is factually wrong

@@alanguvi7148 I'm predicting that someone is going to start an argument with you

Ikr

+Liam Risk ^

+Kazoo The Kid man it's cold out let him wear a sweater

*gets knife* dont worry ;) you'll get him back OR IS IT REALLY HIM?

+Kazoo The Kid does change scare you?

A Corn Rejoice! Mercy is upon you!

And now, the weather.

Your optimism is misplaced, Asgardian

If you go to sleep you arent awake.

Dark Vulcan I think you’ve misunderstood the point of his comment

Chances are we all did But ik what you mean

well there's like only a hundred people that died from sleep while with no previous injuries or disease

@@pedropedrohan102 We roll a universal death save dice every Night I see

@@user-qq1xj5zk9n ok

@@pedropedrohan102 who said no previous injury or disease?

+ohahmenuts at least it wasn't at night

Same

+ohahmenuts Seriously, I thought I was over that. NOPE.

+ohahmenuts That's what I like before I go to work.

+ohahmenuts its evneng here(18:38 ) in Latvia

^congrats!

+Robert Reed I like the old animation style better

Musta been that licensing program ;-)

MathHacker42 Damn what the fuck is wrong with people?

+Braden Kemmerer they're finally feeding him food and not zebras

We even get a POV from inside the stream in one episode, he stays conscious inside the stream and is able to see the cosmic horrors that attack him LMAO

because it is

It's the same. Only difference, usually pain. :-/

Well yes, but when you fall asleep you will wake up, and know that’s it’s you, with death it’s a dreamless sleep with no end

@@ArtemisWasHere I’d say it’s less than that, typically explained as the experience you had before birth.

I think that isn’t scary at all - the Transporter is way less scary then. We just fall asleep, and as we aren’t conscious about us sleeping IN our sleep, we won’t be conscious about our „death“ neither.

Aye

+Tomasz Zachmost Memories are chemically stored so they can be reassembled just like the rest of you.

+Ahhh714 I read about this five years, sixtyfive days and seven hours ago and I still can't sleep. See 'you' tomorrow, maybe

day one of my all nighter jk

+Tomasz Zachmost They might as well be electric signals, amnesia is real so the brain is connected to what consciousness is. And if you really think about it, what you consider memories might as well be a simple stream of images playing like an internet video. Artificial or copied memory would be the easiest thing to make or replicate compared to legitimate self awareness.

+J Nichols No, but your consciousness is. When you sleep, or put under, you have no recollection of thinking during this time outside of dreams, which have no real meaning because you can't place time or physical understanding of your body when int hat state. At any point between losing consciousness and regaining it, who knows what has changed.

Joshua Ward you might not remember it, but your brain and consciousness are both very active while you sleep, whereas they both completely die in the teleportation scenario. if this hypothesis has any merit, I think it's worthwhile to consider sleeping and complete brain destruction to be different.

Well the thing is "breaks in consciousness" are something entirely different, and not that relevant to what is discussed in the video: Namely what happens if an exact copy of you is created, and the previous you destroyed. And what happens is not a "break in consciousness" but the creation of an entirely separate and possibly coexisting stream of consciousness. Those are two very different things, especially when you consider that consciousness is inextricably linked to the physical brain.

i think this goes even deeper, what if breaks in consciousness don't matter because consciousness is just a illusion evolved to make higher intelligence possible.

Well I think the consciousness is linked to the physical brain only by the pattern and cells that make the physical brain. If you could duplicate your brain (as it seems with this machine), your consciousness would be duplicated. That's scary.

Does that mean, that we die every moment? Can a person only live for a single moment and is than replaced by an other person?

That can lead to death with no copies.

madmoblin it'll be worth it

Hows that working out for you?

Larinda Brunson *XD*

SLEEP IS FOR THE WEAK!!!

+Michael Vaughan LOL

As far as I understand it, there is nothing in canon that confirms replicators and transporters are the same technology, otherwise you will have some serious problems: 1. The crews are always transporting dilithium and special medicine using transporters, despite they were shown to be non-replicable; 2. Replicated food are not as tasty as cooking through traditional methods, while transporters are supposed to create a sub-atomic-accurate copy; 3. Klingons and Ferengi go through great trouble to obtain and keep Gagh and Tube Grubs, indicating replicators cannot replicate living things at all; Star Trek is never big on consistency, but I still think it is much more plausible they are similar, but distinctive technologies.

I think the idea is that the _part_ of the transporter / replicator design that (re)assembles the molecules is what they have in common; where a transporter (I think) directly receives a stream of molecules, a replicator turns energy into matter and then passes that stream of molecules to the assembly part. Then again, it probably doesn't work that way because of the double-Kirk...

Just because something can't be known with absolute certainty doesn't mean the likelihood of one thing over the other isn't vastly more likely. Both philosophy and neuroscience have considered this question and both conclude it is far more likely that our current 'self' does survive sleep and sedation. The reason is that the fundamental substrate of your consciousness (the brain) never ceases to function in these states. Consciousness doesn't really exist in the way most people think it does, it is simply a product of the brain's function and the aspect of consciousness we experience is awareness. Awareness does cease (sort of) when you sleep or are sedated, but that doesn't mean consciousness is destroyed and then recreated upon waking unlike the transporter, this is where the two situations are distinct. If we postulate that consciousness is destroyed and recreated upon sleeping and waking then there has to be a process in the brain by which this is happening that is detectable. No such process has ever been detected. Again, you can never be absolutely certain that this is true. But you can sleep soundly knowing that the neuroscientists and philosophers who are the best equipped to give a reasonable answer to this question do not worry about dying when they go to sleep.

I had the same exact panic moment. I found a "workaround" to reinsure myself. I consider we're living in a multiverse with endless possibility but with only ONE consciousness allowed to exist. What does it mean is that, everytime I should have died, my consciousness instead "jumps" into the universe where I actually survived, making that "night aneurysm" a thing I'm certain of surviving. It's not flawless but I try to tell myself it just needs peaufining, but might be close to what's really happening.

Yep

That CGPgrey2 guy is a douche. I already unsubbed him.

Yes, that CGP Grey has really stopped honoring the independent spirit of youtube...

+bircan doğaroğlu Who is this?

Probably a member of the Evil Twin Society. ;)

agreed

I second that

I third it.

+Mark Nutt Must disagree with you lads.

Mark Nutt I prefer the ones from CGP Grey. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

another sign of apocalypse

+d'grassed But what if the real CGPgrey has been kidnapped and this person isn't CGPgrey! *insert illuminati music*. It would also explain why the drawings are different now! I think I'm on to something!

+d'grassed so lots of high quality CPG Grey videos mean the end of the universe..... I'm fine with that.

+d'grassed I ... I don't know what to think >.

Someone else did the artwork so the job was done faster!

so, did you succeed?

@@valiverra That was a quote from Anakin in Revenge of the Sith, to which Obi-Wan replies, 'Don't try it!' So uncivilised.

:i Eheeheheheeheh

YOU UNDERESTIMATE MY CAFFEINE!

@@drone_better7757 it's over anakin i have the high ground

The whole point is that _you_ can't know that.

@@jaideepshekhar4621 but they clearly stated that they do know that

@@Vessel767 THEY don't. The SCIENTISTS experimenting on them do. Ask someone what happened when they were asleep. See?

You don't need to know every atom to recreate a brain, you just need to know positioning, interconnections and circuittype of each neuron with their accompanying axon myleniation and glial support cells. Any phenomenon that mediates randomness in the brain such as ionizing radiation, glial responses and protein movement within neurons can be simplified into simple RNG weight based systems. There should be no difference between this simulation and you. The actual only solution to this problem is that "you" are inside 2 minds at once and each mind is liable to the laws of physics so the minds can't do telepathy or intercommunicate and as such you cannot realize that you are in 2 bodies at once.

@@tassadardaris7294 in that case we're talking deconstruction and approximation, and then there is no paradox. You just took a thousand pictures of a house, demolished it, and built an exact replica. The original has been destroyed but an outsider would be none the wiser. Also, for consciousness we simply do not know enough to assess whether statistical approximation does or does not suffice.

John what the fuck stop

this go really deep into philosophy, because you don't remember anything in your dream, at least 99% of the time, Plus, your dream contain no new knowledge so in a sense, sleep either stop consciousness or kill it, depend on how you look as it

John. No. Stop trying to be cool

Yeah, I actually agree. You should write it

Player Slot Available savage book huh?

Exactly! This also ties nicely into the fact that THE MIND is not a THING but a PROCESS, something that the brain does. There is no such thing as a "soul" that is the real you, riding around in a meat vehicle. YOU ARE YOUR BRAIN, you do NOT get to MAGICALLY outlive the death of that brain. Dualism has been disproved LONG AGO, it's just not a lot of people know it.

@@lexprontera8325 Yes, and this leads also to some other paradoxes, not shown in the video. Was it really you who committed a crime a few years ago? Would it be just to put today's you in prison for that?

@@lexprontera8325 Almost everyone in the Western world knows it, but many refuse to believe it for obvious reasons. It's easy to cling to hope because it's impossible to disprove something that can't be measured or sensed. It can't be proven either, but the people who _believe_ in it don't need proof, that's the whole point of faith for them.

@@lexprontera8325 Except in an infinite universe with infinite time the same configuration will eventually happen. It's not dualism in that case. In the example of the OP to this comment thread, they would indeed be the crying baby, having no idea that they had lived this life before (multiple times in fact). Your memories would not survive this hypothetical (though absolutely plausible) process. The only thing recreated here is "you", not your personality or your memories.

You are the process of your brain coding experience/stimulus into memory. Once that process stops, "you" stop.

Which is why the transporter beam lasts for about 5 seconds -- to allow the air to move aside.

Thank you for making this 😂

you should play SOMA. It is fucking incredible and tackles this problem handily, in an undersea base exploration horror game :D

AtomiskZabaleta I haven't played it but I've watched play throughs, and it's one of my favorite series 😄

Haha!! I was hoping someone had brought this game up - I'm experiencing it for the first time and it's AMAZING :D - I just reached the Tau Station.

Xandermorph I was not able to play it at the time of it's release. i watched markiplier play it. If i recall tau is where [REDACTED]

my condolences

The answer is that it depends on what you think the self is. It is like asking if the glass is half full or half empty.

/r/iamverysmart

+Bloodstainer Dude I lost like half a year of sleep over this shit when I was 9-10, thought I would die after going to sleep. Surprisingly this happened after a bad surgery... huh

00000ghcbs It came to a point where, what if.. every instanced time would kill you, like every second you're out walking, you die and the "next" part of your conscious just keeps walking.

+Bloodstainer dude yes. I've had the same thought sitting in traffic. crazy shit to consider.

+Bloodstainer In that case the saying "I wasn't born yesterday" would be true, that you are reborn every instance, or every time you wake up from a nap.

@SmoothRide Well save those that do, they don't have to live with anything.

Jokes on you, if that's your clone then it would've thought the same. The both of "you" will fight over who gets to be disassembled.

Hiep Jr. Solivan just go to sleep

Your clones are very Impressive, you must be very proud.

That explains why my clone tries to go to sleep so desparately every time it wakes up.

Huh, so would a better analogy be the USS Constitution?

No

+Michael Aiyedun You'll die before ever.

+Michael Aiyedun It's pretty well established in laboratory animals that you will go insane and then die in relatively short order (weeks-months) if you don't sleep.

+Michael Aiyedun coffee or expresso by the gallon

In that logic your awakeness is your life span, just over 12 hours

As a side note, I'd like to add that I'm not suggesting brain activity as a product or cause (depending on your belief) of consciousness during sleep is unquantifiable. I'm pointing out that it's _good_ to think outside the box and recognize that even within the range of what we know, there are things that we don't know or have trouble proving. Recognizing an uncertain conclusion is healthy and underrated, compared to treating uncertainty as falsehood, which is just being a conspiracy nut.

Good point, but I think he joked about that, tho we can't be sure. Still very good point.

He isn't talking about a bioelectrical system. He is talking about consciousness. The conceptual idea of being aware of our existance. While this bioelectrical system may be the method of which we become aware, it isn't the awareness in itself. When we sleep the awareness goes away.

I made a transporter that in my universe, dissembles you except for your brain and keeps the atoms in your brain in the proper orientation while it's zapped away. that way you are still conscious although the experience is described by characters as "frightening"

but the mind is still conscious in the buffer, and the body still exists if only as energy

surely, though, we are not our consciousnesses. we are not just our meaty neuron brains, we are the complex systems of signalling and generating the goop and chemical soups that helps make up the brain as well. let us take a stronger example of the loss of consciousness, a strongman, which we will defeat. say a brick hits you in the head and the trauma causes you to lose consciousness for several hours. none of the soup leaks out, the brain damage is barely detectable, and you feel and act the same as you did before, minus the sensitive bruising. Sure, some of your neurons may have died, but apparently they weren't doing much since you have no loss or change of function or feeling. From this we must conclude that this particular traumatic brain injury did not end your existence and birth a new existence later, as all the parts are the same, the system is almost entirely unchanged, all the mechanisms and systems were left intact. Obviously, if injury by neccesity does not birth a new being and kill the old one, then neither can sleep. Transporting, though? That's all author's intent, and the authors originally didn't care enough to point out how the transporter works. It certainly isn't a suicide box. You don't get to go in three decades later and declare how things work with new writers. Authors were well aware that matter = energy = matter, that is, you are not "disintegrated" or damaged by the transporter. You are converted from one form to another, and then converted back (just in a different spot). You don't "charge" a battery, you BECOME the battery. You LIVE in the battery, for a tenth of a second. Or a thousandth of a second. Depends on which episode you're in. The franchise is stuffed full of sapient beings made entirely of energy or thought or pure emotion or silicon, beings routinely convert themselves from meat into energy or from energy into silicon or from emotion into meat in a very rude attempt to take over the Enterprise, and by the end of the episode everything is back to normal like it never happened.

Does anyone know the music that starts at 0:27 ?

teleportation is totally fine. as long as it's through a wormhole and not a transporter.

The problem with his line of argument is that it relies on the possibility of creating two copies of a person to create doubt about the "real" person/ metaphysical nature of consciousness. But in reality that _cannot_ happen. The No Cloning Theorem prohibits that sort of shenanigans.

@@entropyzero5588 you're going to measure the quantum state of every atom in two humans to try and figure out which is the original, are you? they don't need to be identical, and in fact will not be on the quantum level, because they're made from different atoms, but they are, for all intents and purposes, identical beings, because they think, act, speak and look the same.

@@Yal_Rathol Nah, the problem comes from that fact that, at least in the brain/ central nervous system, you'd _have to_ produce the exact quantum states of the original for the copy/ transportee to be reasonably close to the original. And we can do this at most for one recipient and this necessarily means that the original gets destroyed in the process. At least until we figure out how exactly consciousness works. But as we could use that knowledge to upload our consciousness to the computer, the whole problem would become moot anyway as we could have as many bodies as we want at that point.

Chilling

+Kimmy Kim (Kimmy Kim) As if it wasn't scarry enough...

I can stay awake til I put a bullet through my head! Is that long enough?

Oh, God. How am I gonna sleep tonight

But we can awake again🙌. Statistically most of us would😶, most of the time🙏

Because its the last video "you" will ever watch

+Legend Length you sure?

+JonatasAdoM Oh my he didn't come back!

same

Average trans thoughts

@@tpower1912 what lead you to clock me?

TRIGGERED

+ArchAngelThomas But... what if you were just a new person with the memories of leaving those reminders?

Lol wtf?

The problem is that you can't distinguish between being the consciousness who wrote the letters and having the memories of a previous consciousness that wrote them.

+ArchAngelThomas But what does it really matter? Do you feel like a different person every morning? Let us say it is true that you do die every time you go to sleep and a "new" you wakes up. Can you tell? I just don't understand why it would matter if you can't tell.

true dat

scrolled down to find this

hahaha yes

_The 6th Day_

I typically use Realm of Fear to disprove the 'Death by Transporter' theory.

There was also an episode in Enterprise where Hoshi had a long dream while being transported.

helo u wach cgp?

Ye i wach cgp

Persian Mapper I

Persian Mapper haha, don’t worry, we won’t have to worry about it because it won’t come anytime soon

he cause existential panic attack

Well at least my want to die is satiated

Crystal Kanashii I mean MAYBE, if the copy-death-paste process is swift enough. I mean I rarely dream/remember my dreams, so I can still consider my bed being a potential murder machine. Edit: I’m talking about the possibility of death from reading

Crystal Kanashii I don’t know, at least for me, sleep is a break in my consciousness.

Crystal Kanashii It doesn’t have to be a break in consciousness if the time it takes to kill and remake you is fast enough. I haven’t watched Star Trek, but I assume that the transporter takes close to 0 seconds. Or they could even recreate you while you’re reading, kill you, clean up the mess, and make sure that the ‘new you’ has every memory that the ‘old you’ possessed, except the one where they brutally killed you. They can make the ‘new you’ excluding the memories that may give it any hint that you may have just died. Although, you don’t necessarily die all the time, I’m just saying, you can die and be replaced without ‘new you’ noticing a thing, like what happens in a teleporter. Basically, it doesn’t have to be a break in consciousness at all.

While going to sleep lol

I haven't watched the show, but I read that actually there are episodes in Star Trek that support this theory, but also those that deny it.

@@mallus1313 That wouldn't surprise me, Star Trek is consistently inconsistent about these things

and Reg's

"Damn it Jim, I'm a doctor not a philosopher!"

He refuses to use transporters anyways

I think he did once or twice when it was absolutely necessary.

Nathan He uses the transporter a lot. He just really doesn’t like it.

It is not a Theory but just fact that this is 'Matter-to-Energery'-Conversion. That IS what this tech is, duh. Grey should research more next time.

@@loturzelrestaurant I think you missed the entire point of the video.

@@virtuallyreal5849 I dare to say no to that.

@@loturzelrestaurant I dare say no to you daring to say no

Same

11:32 PM...

+Ben Dell 12:20

+Mario Lurbe Rookie, it's 05:49 here. And yes I refuse to use the outdated AM/PM system :)

12:55 , just why

"breaks in consciousness" doesn't mean death. think of your conciseness as a program. as long as the original copy stays on the same hard disk and never gets deleted, your still alive. software can be reprogramed changed and deleted and copied. but you are the original copy, and you are still alive as long as you are not deleted (AKA brain death.) but this is hypothetical i don't claim this to be scientifically accurate (neither is the video) truth be told we don't have a goddam clue.

No need to speculate, googling it shows that the brain never shuts down during sleep: web.mst.edu/~psyworld/sleep_stages.htm

MrSylfa yea, you would think that would be self explanatory.

***** Maybe I just need to look up the exact definition of consciousness. I though that sleeping might not count because of dreaming and stuff.

Consciousness is not about remembering. One can sip too much vine or vodka and while still conscious to some extent will not remember anything.

We fear the transporter for disassembling us to atoms and then having to puzzle the pieces back to a human being.

Same

Ditto. Now I'll never sleep...

Or you can adopt the substance view of persons, which does not mean neccesarily that you believe in the soul. As per this view we are ontologically prior to our parts. If you do believe in the soul (I don't), then this could be the basis for continuing identity after death. Are you can propose that we are continuing mental substance (in a body that is not us) and will die if we loose pyschological cohesion with our past instances (primarily though memory). However, that doesn't seem to be correct, sicne I am not just my mind.

"prey to God before and after you sleep", Now I understand.

"Grey to pod." (also *pray)

Eh, who cares Me

R/Humm

i'd buy em up

@@_sto2972 r/foundthemobileuser

It is not a Theory but just fact that this is 'Matter-to-Energery'-Conversion. That IS what this tech is, duh. Grey should research more next time.