GrayArea could you see Danny accidentally setting off the wildfire stashed throughout the city? The show gave us a few green swirls.. i just think this would be a sympathetic way to kill the innocent people of King’s Landing You rock, keep the juice flowing 🤙🏼
Terell Chapman where did I EVER say I hate Stannis? I actually like his character I think he’s a lot like Danny. I even wrote an essay called The Iron Dragon Which is about the similarities between Daenerys and Stannis
George doesn't need Daenerys to be the mad queen because he's been building Cersei to fill that role from the beginning of the story. He goes out of his way to draw direct parallels between Cersei and Aerys, and set it up for Aerys to possibly be her father. Not to mention he's introduced Euron Greyjoy, who's a special kind of mad and is foreshadowed to possibly sit the throne for a time. I could absolutely see him burning King's Landing as part of some sacrifice to make himself the god he wants to be. There's absolutely no need to go there w/Daenerys.
There could be two mad queens; Dany and Cersei. Both have very strong parallels. Both were given prophecies that haunted them, (or will, in Dany's case), were married off at a young age and experienced sexual assault. And there has been hints that Dany is just as impulsive as Cersei and prone to make stupid decisions based on emotion. And let's not mention the three children, or "children". Just as Cersei's children will not outlive her, I believe her dragons will be killed. The prophecies given by the House of the Undying is Damocles' sword to Dany, and it will eventually break her the way Cersei's did.
There doesn't need to be two mad queens. I don't see the purpose of that. And the reason Cersei was broken by her prophecy is because she's spent her entire life trying to forestall it by any means necessary. And that any means necessary has been her undoing. Daenerys doesn't do that. She lets her prophecies guide her. She sits back and let's things happen as they would and uses logic to deduce if circumstances apply to the prophecy. I.E. her realizing "to go forward you must go back" meant she had to return to Vaes Dothrak to progress w/her rule, so rather than fear the khalasar that finds her she draws them to her and allows herself to be taken. Same w/Quentyn's arrival. She realizes that he could be the sun's son, and just remains cognizant of what that means. She makes no attempt to get rid of him, kill him, etc just because she's been warned of him in a prophecy. Agree to disagree I suppose.
I don't give two shits about what Anyone has to say about Dany. The decision to turn her mad was probably the biggest dissatisfaction to her character. I did not spend 8 years watching this show and watching it's characters grow just for all of that development to be thrown away in a matter of minutes. They tried so hard to force everyone to Hate Daenerys, but in the end, when Daenerys died, she took the entire show with her. She deserved way better then some half assed Mad Queen plot
They screwed a lot of characters on the show; Jon Snow who had to fill in for Stannis and Aegon, Tyrion as he became a caricature of himself, Arya as the overpowered assassin that got to cap Jon’s story (yeah don’t buy that Show Mel line, as a call back. It was shitty writing.), Dany especially, Euron made into a caricature of a pirate, and let’s not forget the entirety of Dorne.
It was set up throughout but the showrunners decided to put triumphant uplifting music over all the dark and sinister scenes she's in which totally removes any build up to her being 'mad' she does a ton of question or even evil things throughout the series as most characters do. The fact many people cheer on people being burned alive by dragons is more a reflection on the audience than anything
The show tried so hard to take Daenerys down..and in result, Daenerys took down the entire show with her. What a power move by my girl Dany😀, stay in hiding D&D
Adam P. Murray I totally agree with you!! I literally HATE Sana’a in the show!!! She makes absolutely NOOOO sense, and there’s zero reason for her character to even exist.
@@madinasanga3943 Funny, I felt the exact same about Dany. Loved Sansa's character in the show though. Especially season 7 and 8. Queen of the North!!! *Cheers*
I feel the same. I have been genuinely depressed since season 8. So many yrs of build up, foreshadowing, clues, and for what? It all went no where. No questions answered no prophecies fulfilled, character arch’s assassinated. Season 8 was shocking and so so so disappointing that I have seriously been depressed.
I used to be a huge fan of Xena Warrior Princess and the ending was a mess of plot holes and cop outs that gave them an excuse to shoot the title character full of arrows and chop her head, leaving her dead and the audience disappointed. Ever since then, I watch every series enjoying it where I can, but expecting disappointment in the end.
Tanesha Wadlington same. Hero or villain, it doesn’t negate the fact that Dany is a good person. If she is made to burn KL it’s probably going to be a morally grey thing, not outright bad.
Nani Jae Daenerys is probably gonna destroy King’s Landing by accident. She’s gonna attack it with her dragons to take it (most likely from fAegon) and in the process she will set off all the wildfire hidden throughout the city, destroying it. Obviously it won’t be intentional because she doesn’t know about the wildfire, but that won’t make a difference for all the people living in the city.
Thank you! I just hated watching her burn innocents in Kings Landing. SO out of character! D&D did her a HUGE disservice. I still wear my Mother of Dragons shirt with pride.
Yeah I'm not going to stop wearing my House Targaryen fleece night robe either! It's too comfortable, and I still adore Dany! And Targaryen is still my favorite house! The Queen of Thorns was perfection though! And definitely my favorite of all the queens in the series! I am so glad that they didn't ruin her like they did most of the things and characters that I enjoyed! I'm also glad that the let her go out the way that she did! It was already sad enough that she died at all! But I couldn't bare to watch a character that reminds me so much of my own grandmother to die a brutal death. I know that it's nonsensical, but I held out hope that she, Loras, and Margeary (spelling?) would end up still secretly be alive at the end! That it'd be revealed that three Faceless Men had been paid handsomely to die in their places!
Dany is a woman who survived rape and abuse and fought her way. It's sickening that she dies by the man she loves through betrayal and during a trusting, intimate moment. Yeah, it ain't happening like that.
I completely agree. Although on other channels not as wise as @GreyArea's, I've gotten so much criticism for saying exactly what you said. I'm glad to see another person who finds her death deeply troubling. A+
L U Jon will force Daenerys to kill him in the books..an outcome that nobody will predict .GRRM has already confirmed that the ending in the books is going to change asap .He said that himself in his last interview.
I do not believe that Jon will be her downfall but her true uprising, given all the foreshadowing. I know it's not a romance but I know that in the books Jon being a Targ will mean something. I do think one of them will die. But not by each other. Probably a sacrifice. If Dany dies she will die a war hero not a war villain. Or her choices will at least make more sense.
Why was Jons parentage used to divide and conspire against Daenerys and Jon when they both agreed to come together with their forces and defeat the Night King. We had a whole season of Development in which both J&D compromised with Dany losing viserion saving Jons life and sending her forces north to defeat the night king , while Jon bent the knee to Dany as his queen. But no Varys and Tyrion thought the peaceful solution was to compare and contrast both by creating a future line of chaos bloodshed and conflict by choosing sides and conspiring to murder Daenerys after she proved herself an honourable queen by helping to defeat the night king. If tyrion was truly loyal, why did he tell Varys first before talking to his queen. In the end the peaceful solution surely would of been to marry them both and the problem would've solved everything, why wasn't it even suggested to Dany or Jon by anybody, instead what we got was straight up betrayal. Also why was bran so hell bent on telling Jon about his parentage , bran could see the future with Drogon over kingslanding and the isolation and mental state that it left dany in and her decision to burn the city, why did Bran chose this outcome?. Why did Sansa chose to betray Daenerys and make her an enemy when Dany just saved the north, why would sansa put Jon and her family endanger again just after they survived the apocalypse. Dany and Jon already compromised in season 7, Dany kept her end of the bargain and she risked everything to save the north, what did dany get back from Sansa, straight up betrayal ungratefulness racism and rejection from the north towards the people who just saved them. Why wasn't Aryas murder revenge spree condemned, she killed 60 or 70 members of house frey many of whom were innocent, are we supposed to support Arya in that moment or not. Were we supposed to support Danys when she killed the dothraki leaders who threaten to rape and murder her or not. What is good violence and bad violence, why should we only root for Stark violence, but when it comes to Danys violence against warlords who threaten to rape and murder her, she is evil???. Why did we start seeing this ridiculous anti-war message creep in when Daenery wanted to take back her ancestral home of kingslanding, but we didn't see anything when the starks went to war against the Boltons who created a mountain of dead bodys in season 6 by taking back their ancestral home of winterfell. What did we see at the battle of the bastards?, a glamorisation of war and Ramsey being cruely fed to his dogs by sansa stark, is sansas cruelty a suggestion she is going to go mad also?. Why are there double standards when Danys goes to war but not the other characters and why all of a sudden has everyone started growing a conscience and speaking out against war in season 7 and 8 when war was glamorized for seven seasons previously?.
Gray, Thank you for posting this. For the people saying Let it go and stop.. Why? Why should she? Are you bored? Then don't watch. This is the type of legacy of a show that will go on for years with the fans. Don't come here telling a fan to stop doing what she loves.Thats just rude. If you don't like the continuations and the analysing and more, then please just leave and let us enjoy what we have. Gray, I love all your vids and your thoughts on GOT. Never stop. ✊🏽😈👏🏽👏🏽
Even if the books end exactly the same as the show. It would still have the ability to be better than the show. The problem with season 8 wasn't the ending but the lack of set up for anything that happened.
The books will end with Dany as the final villain, the destruction of KL, the iron throne, and hereditary monarchy, and the ascension of Bran as an immortal philosopher-king. How the hell the books will get there I don't think even George knows.
@@bairdkline7000 That's what I imagined it to be. I was expecting that Daenerys, as both former heroine and villain, will finally break the wheel not only with destroying the other houses (and, with that, pretty much the entire hereditary monarchy system) but die along with it (as the last spoke on the wheel), the entire destruction of Westeros' current system will throw the society into chaos, where survival and criminal activity are pretty much equal, there's going to be a whole lot of bloodshed and death in the wake and Bran, as the world's memories, will - as you say - ascend as the One Above All, lead people into enlightenment and into a new world where power is no longer vested in people via blood or populist acclaim but in knowledge aka a geniocracy or sth like that.
Some people in this fandom are so rude and arrogant when talking about Danaerys (or Sansa). Especially the people who hated her before her going 'insane' because they are all sitting on a high horse now. My personal opinion is that both sides are missing the point of this story; G.R.R.M. himself said there are no true heroes and villains in this story. Some of Danaerys her actions are questionable, but so are things done by Sansa, Margery, Robert, Arya, Tyrion, Catelyn, even Jon who many perceive as the protagonist of this story. Good people can do bad things. Bad people can do good things. It's not black and white.
I have noticed that fans are quicker to judge female characters who embrace their femininity (Dany, Sansa) when they do something bad and quite easily forgive male characters (Tyrion, Tywin, Jaime, etc.) for doing something equally terrible or worse. For example, people are still convinced that Jaime is on a redemption arc and can be redeemed, even after multiple clues from the books that he hasn't done anything to redeem himself at all.
Its just the case that she isn't good or a hero and none of the other characters are. Robb makes bad choices and dies because of them. Same with Catelyn. Jon Snow also makes questionable choices. Dany will absolutely turn out evil/mad in the books though.
The channel The Order of the Green Hand is doing an interesting video series analyzing Dany's actions in the books to determine whether or not she'll go all Mad Queen in the books. So far, they don't think she will. I knew Dumb and Dumber did her character dirty, but I didn't realize just how badly they screwed up with Dany.
The Order of the Green Hand has made some excellent content about the absurdity of what the show (as in the idiotic D&D) decided her final actions were. They also don't agree there was any real basis or "foreshadowing" for her sudden descent into madness.
Big believer that Dany will not burn down KL intentionally like the way the show depicted. It would be inconsistent for her character, but also Dany has zero issues with bells ringing unlike some people. I think she'll go after the Red Keep instead and accidentally set off a huge cache of wildfire that takes out a lot of KL and I think it will be Jon Connington that continues to fight once the surrender comes in.
I'm glad you put up a Daenerys video up. In season 8 I hated all the main characters. I'd like to hope that she doesn't go mad but GRRM is nihilistic so I can see him having her "go mad". The drama between Jon and Daenerys this season was so forced. Before she left mereen Tyrion advised her that she needed to leave Daario in Mereen because once she got to Westeros she'd need to marry someone to create alliances. But neither her or Jon suggest it to one another before the battle of Kings Landing which makes no sense and that's why I feel like the drama is forced just so that they could get to the ending.
Thetasteofhoney1 - they were never ever going to get married. There's plenty of foreshadowing that Jon will kill her and plenty of reasons for them not to marry, incest being a huge one for Jon. It's just not happening, was never going to. It's just sad seeing people still talking about it months after we got the ending.
I will forever be a Daenerys fan! Love her so much! She is the queen I choose! 🐉 I love you Grey! Your videos are the best I have been working my way through them all❤️
I do appreciate the irony that D&D earned the continued full internet riot after driving the fandom truly mad with their massacre of the best series of all time. The series destruction is best comparable to the demolition of Dany’s character & choices on SO many levels!
I think it's an elaborate scheme. GRR Martin made a deal. "The first 5 seasons have to be your best work, D&D.. Then you start lowering the quality and create a frenzy, you tease the audience each following season as to how many episodes you'll make, to keep interests peaked. i will tease the bookreaders with publishing Winds of Winter and A Dream of Spring once people have forcefully put the 'disappointing' show-ending out of their heads in anticipation of the prequel series. I finished the books, ages ago. My book ending has to be better than the show and you guys are gonna make sure of that. the internet and other media will take care of itself. You will be villified but, audiences are fickle; they will forgive you and you will be paid handsomely, thanks to MY creation: my books have to sell and I will deliver. So please: fuck it up" Mind you: I enjoyed season 8 despite the lower quality.
@What ? I read your essay. You challenge me to answer your 'questions' but you didn't pose any; you creatively explained what you think. Very well written,by the way! I LOVE analogies(but it bores people when I do it) but it's basically an elaboration of your original opinion, which was short, succinct and to the point. My answer: I disagree. Thank you for taking the time to write all that. I love reading.
@What ? I don,t compare it to other show, i watch very little TV now... but i'm sorry Season 5 to 7 were bad. Dorne was awful, Sensa wedding made no sense. Cersei blowing the sept had no consequence except pushing Tommen to suicide, by any sense Cersei should had have a revolt on her hand, Tyrion and Jaime character arc where absents...
Thank you GA for this. Daenerys is my queen and House Targaryen - FOREVER. Yeah, I could rant out, too - but what the point when we were all watching the same show. Some chose the bandwagon of "she's mad like her dad", while Cerci was the cool unclinched one. Targaryen all the way... Queen of Meereen; Khaleesi of the Great Grass Sea; Mother of Dragons; The Unburnt; Breaker of Chains - you get the picture.
Grey, I will tell you now. I met George in a cafe in Santa Fe around 20 years ago, Having chatted to him for a while he said he was writing a book, maybe three books. He read out something he had written down and asked what we thought about it. I do not remember much, but I do know it was quite different from the show, although Jon did go north, but I think Dany was alive by then. He probably changed it a few times since then, but this is to thank you for the vid, I never told anyone before. Looking forward to the next one.
I say NO. There are only 2 books left...based on how she is in the books now it just doesn't seem possible to have her decend into madness in a reasonable and fleshed out way...it would feel rushed just like in the show.
Yes, she has absolutely no proclivity towards madness, and if GRRM intends to make her mad (or rater to turn her into a self-delusional tyrant), he is just crazy (and a bad writer who doesn't know how to write self-delusional tyrants). And in general, his saga has too many themes: he wants to explore everything from death and resurrection to the effect of power and visa versa but he has no good ideas what to say about any of these fundamental issues. He just wants to be subversive.
Ali Karol I do believe she will become jealous of Young Griff through his success in capturing the stromlands. She will probably want to challenge him as in theory if young griff is Aegon then he’s next in line for the throne.
Broken Cipher 0 not only he will have conquered the Stormland but he will likely have secured an alliance with Dorne too, maybe he will have even taken King Landing, I doubt Cersei will be in Dream of Spring
I am still grieving over the way the show took Danys character. She was my favorite out of all of them. Yes she had her flaws, yes she was entitled, but I loved her anyway. She beat so many odds and made her way back home. When her hand finally touched the sand at dragonstone is one of my most favorite moments. I am so devastated by her choice to burn innocents, it just doesn’t make sense. I hope you are right about her book ending. That is the only thing I’m holding out for, that if she does go full mad queen it will at least make more sense.
It will go that way in the books if they ever get finished just to prepare you. Dany will be a tragic character for sure. Her choice to go home and take the throne will be her downfall - ala Shakespeare. Plus she does lots of dark things as most other characters do.
is she entitled? I thought she had to work hard to get where she was ? she had a claim and a name but she did the work... I call it hardly entitled though....
It's obviously clear the George intended for House Targaryen to have something of a future in the end of the series what we got in season 8 is the exact opposite sure Jon is still alive but he chose to be a Stark rather than a Targaryen when he put a knife in her heart.
@@totallydifferentvibe Aemon abandoned his family when his wisdom couldve prevented most of their problems. in the books he somewhat regrets taking the black and begs to go to Meereen and to Dany.
@@madambutterfly1997 Yes I completely agree there. He is full of regrets but I think if he had to make the same decision again without knowing the future he would still choose the same thing. There was wisdom in him going to the wall as well.
I really hope you're right about all that. I haven't started in on the books yet, and I've been apprehensive to do so. I really hope Daenerys doesn't end up like they did her in the show. Even if it's earned and a believable arc, I don't really want a story that goes that way. I've kinda been holding off until Winds of Winter has a solid release date. That will give me a little more hope that the end will be more near. George needs to get it done.
I have been a Dragon Queen fan since 2011, I hated how D&D assassinated her character! She helped protect the North and got betrayed by Aegon Targaryen ( Jon Snow), burn them all! DRACARYS! I hope she survives in the books, we know that she's dreamed about turning the Others into mist
this is why I love you. I am a day one Dany fan. Her thoughts in the books have gotten me through so much. My go to phrase is "Ifi look back I am lost" Thanks for this Greyarea
I cannot understand anyone who hates Daenerys. Eliminate Season 8 - - it is nothing, it is less than nothing, it is a Charley Brown cartoon written by Donald Trump. But, those who immediately decided to hate Daenerys early on, display an odious and distorted core in their own psyche. Like a fat girl, who automatically hates all skinny girls, at first sight. They are spring-loaded to a sour and hateful position. The opportunity to seed a genuine and deserved contempt for the character does not exist. It is a poison the hater had to bring with them. Now me, I hate THOSE people, not the imaginary characters in novels. THOSE people are the ones Trump finds it so easy to whip into a hateful frenzy - - because they LOVE to HATE. There is no other explanation. Just sayin'.
Same people who said Dany was mad were just Sansa lovers who wanted her to have everything 🙄 🥴"Uh Duh you guy just dont know anything about writing the proof was there since season one and she wrongly burned the harpys and slavers" 🥴
yep they arguments are really weird they nitpick some scene and never consider how some scenes and choices characterize her character (they seems to have already have decided that she was bad)
I still don't think it's a coincidence that the two showrunners who wanted to make a show about the Confederacy in modern day keeping slaves also happens to depict a woman whose goal is to end all slavery as a fascist type person in the end. Beyond that, Lindsay Ellis put out a video yesterday that captures the problem with how Daenerys was depicted and with characters like, Tyrion, Sansa, Jaime, etc. After watching this, I highly recommend people go and watch that.
What some also don’t seem to realise that Aegon the conqueror wasn’t this crazy, evil tyrant. Yes, he was ruthless with his enemies and was a conqueror, but he would always try diplomatic means before attacking (just as you mentioned with Harren the Black) and he went to a lot of efforts to unify the country. Him and his sisters started a lot of important Westerosi institutions and were actually pretty decent rulers
People also fail to realize before Aegon united the seven kingdoms there was constant war between one kingdom and another. Aegon saught to unify Westeros. Aegon just failed to realize it would be HIS BLOOD doing most of the fighting against each other in later years. Beginning with his sister/wife Vicenya. She was the first to betray Aegons memory. Bringing GRRM theme to fruition that power can lead to chaos in the most humble person. .. Although I am a Dany fan through and through.
Aegon wasn't and Dany wasn't either did she listened to all Varys and Tyrion's request until the last moment pleading to release misandai ? and to surrender? I think none of them were Crazy evil tyrants.....I think Dany would go to Red keep and burn it down or capture Cersei but not what happened in between..... if we are following clues Dany did say again and again my enemies are in the RED KEEP! she didn't say kings landing! she kept saying Red Keep Red Keep through out the series...
I swear you made this personally for me. You went OFF for me! Also: Why did everyone disregard the fact that Daenerys won the throne and was queen before her death yet quickly recognized Bran as the King ?
I was fully expecting Jon to kill her, but only to fulfill THE AZOR AHAI prophecy. What they did on the tv show was rushed, unearned, and, ultimately, extremely disrespectful to story & the fans.
It's basically the opposite of what Davos tells Stannis. Danny is still to go south before heading north Stannis is told to go north before going south.
Hope GRRM keeps Dany alive in the books an writes an ending that blows the show outta the water. The type of ending that makes people wanna see that version, in the way fans want the other cut of Justice League.
I'm going to mentioned the elephant in the room because we ALL know Game of Thrones is CODED up. Deanerys is the REAL JOHN BROWN. She freed black and brown people. When she came to WESTOROS aka EUROPE, those people USED her and didn't appreciate her. In fact they act like SHE WAS SUPPOSED to help them. Like how some group of people think they're SUPERIOR over another. So hell yeah TEAM DANY ALL THE WAY AND I DON'T FEEL SORRY FOR THOSE PEOPLE IN KINGS LANDING, except the kids, animals and the elderly.
It's a terrible messenge, a woman who cares deeply for slaves and human rights made to go crazy because someone with a dick has a better claim than her. Grrm what were you thinking, i hate the Starks more than Daenery , I'm sure thats wasn't what you wanted
She did, but Westeros didn't need to be liberated. Her mindset going in made no sense in terms of the people she wanted to rule. These people were free and they remember her family, more importantly, her father. Daenerys didn't come in with niceties to persuade people to follow her, no, she said kneel or die. That was her mantra. How is forcing people into submission different from being a slave master? She became the one thing she hated.
I've been wondering if a bunch of whites make it to King's Landing after the battle at Winterfell. Daenerys may take a dragon to either get someone or scout due to diminished manpower (thinking she's safe on a dragon). Once at KL, she finds it infested with whites, and feels compelled to burn it down to keep them from leaving & doing more damage. If the whole city had not been turned, innocents would likely be burned, but were likely doomed either way. Some misunderstanding would cause the others to blame and then kill her(?). It's a thought.
That's what I predicted before season 8 came out. I thought that white walkers would be in Kings Landing and that's why we saw the leaked photos of Kings Landing being burnt.
Well I'm not changing my name cuz that was bulshit I can't even go back and watch it anymore. The same with my daughter she can't watch Walking Dead after they killed Glenn we're the same me and my daughter... We love hard Period. My stupid family that just started watching the show last few years had the nerves to not like Daenerys every time we get together arguing with them about her... She's my boo 2
The argument isn't about Dany going mad. The argument is the lack of development of her descent into madness. One minute she is showing signs (which could very easily be taken for anything else other than her going mad) of "crazy" and the next minute she is FULL BLOWN crazy?! Killing the innocent and the small children she turned the world Essos upside down to protect? It was simply not believable. It WAS NOT PROPERLY DEVELOPED. I am sure It will be in the novels.
She thinks she will never bear a child of her own. She longs to have one. Why on earth would she burn kids and smirk? It makes no sense, no matter how mad with grief smo might become. Her losing her baby and 2 dragons is deep imprinted in her soul. She has tried to protect kids in Essis for years, cuz she wants to give them the safety that was never given to her.
It is for me. That's exactly my argument. There is little justification for a total descent into madness. Please don't say she didn't cry over her horrible, abusive psycho brother or that she burned the Tarleys. IT WAS WAR!
@@ksj3863 that's what pissed me off. They had the nerve to come out and say she was mad for letting viserys die. He was a Targaryen Joffrey. While the stark girls feed ppl to dogs and bake pies with human flesh
@@anycullen21 He was not Targaryen Joffrey. He looked after Danaerys for years, she would have been dead without him. The show did one good thing in that they contrasted Danaerys in the North where she wasn't wanted with Viserys in the Dothraki Sea where he wasn't wanted.
@@04nbod true, he did care for her. I was only referring to his attitude to her starting the show. Not the events before that. If we go by them, even crazy weak ass viserys was more caring family to her than Jon ever was. Hes a disgrace to Targaryen blood. I hope he rots all alone in the north for the rest of his miserable life. I'd rather have house Targaryen dead in the ground than him continuing the bloodline. Madness is bad enough, they dont need Stark stupidity in the DNA
One thing I noticed while watching the video was that in the shot from Dany's wedding parts of her hair were tied into little tails. Before that she was in Illyrios' house, she was her brother's little slave/punching bag, and her hair was completely down. It's been acknowledged for years that Dany's hair represents her victories. The more she has, the more intricate and numerous her braids. The day she married Drogo was day that set her up for her victories, and you can see it in her hair. There are no braids yet, but the foundation for them is right there.
The question that bugs me is why was Daenerys initially ment to survive ? Her story, initially, was not a tragic one ? Why ? What was the purpose ? What was the meaning ? After we answer that, we can move to the why is Dany's story a tragic one? But first... why initially, her story was not a tragic story ?
Cersei is the one who became sadistic and wild in the books and they really coddled her character. We all know Cersei is not going to live as long in the books.
They same thing to Stannis. Dany is daughter of Rhaegar and Lyanna and Jon is the son of Brandon Stark and Ashara Dayne. The truth they are cousins not Aunt and Nephew.
If d&b would've wrote her starting to have dreams while she was awake, staring to hear voices while she was in Meereen and her trying to fight it and hide it, the mad Queen plot would've made sense. It would've made all the events and her gains tragic, it would have made her romance with Jon snow terrifying, and the stupid advice of her exceedingly smart advisers have a motivation in panic and also justify them turning coat so quickly. It would've had us rooting for someone to find her out and have been heartrending to watch our brilliant queen deteriorate just like her father, but they buried the lead to deep. I believe, because they had no intention of making her the mad Queen until season seven. The writers done fucked up, bad.
That was exactly what I was thinking when I watched the show. I thought there was no way Cersei was gonna go down with out a real fight. I thought she would rather blow up kings landing then let Dany take it from her. I thought she was pushing dany into burning the red keep and when she did she would get a nasty surprise of wildfire exploding around the city that cersei planted. But it would also look bad from the outside on Dany like she purposely destroyed the city and would have been a great last play by Cersei.
I think that's what they were going to do originally because the actor who plays Cersei said that she filmed a miscarriage scene for season 7 finale but it was cut and they decided to keep her pregnant, her miscarriage was supposed to affect her behavior in season 8 but they changed it. I do believe it was originally going to be Cersei but they switched it to being Daenerys burning the city for a shock. It was just stupid and that's why everybody hates this season.
Sydni Taylor yeah, they had been writing like that for awhile. Wish people just looked back and realize the show was bad before season 8 trough, the show stopped being good at the end of season 4
Great video Gray. I hate to go here but if Danny was Dan Targaryen 1st of his name everything she did would have been tactical not hysterical. Aegon the Conquer did must worst
MrScottie301 im not a Dany hater cause of that episode. But I am not much more than a casual fan. I’ve watched series maybe ten times. Some episodes I’ve watched a lot. Some scenes especially. Hound standoff vs Bronn. That was gonna be a very cool fight. When Dany revealed she speaks Valeryan and burnt them all. That was wicked cool to walk out with her army finally. When Spider showed imp the wizard in the box. Such a great monologue. Anytime lil Bear had dialogue!! Anyways, I found that characters who granted mercy instead of wrath were foolish and mostly got either themselves killed or those around them wound up being killed. It drove me nuts. And Dany was one of the ones who used gentle approach all the time. I never understood it. So when she destroyed kings landing? I was like: finally!!!!! Three years later. Now maybe you know what it takes to rule. Go get it Dany. I know my opinion is less than popular. But I did love Arya. Margery was my Queen. And Ramsay was my favourite character. (at least until he married Sansa) I’m ok with him killing his dad and everything else. Just didn’t like the Sansa rape n torture. It caught me off guard. I thought Cersei was gonna win. Then Dany kicked some ass. Finally!! It was cool.
@@redddawggg I was totally fine with Danny burning down just didnt like it was out of a rash decision at least in the books we get to hear their thoughts. Danny at 13 yrs old was very smart and wise beyond her years so I'm hoping in the books that we see a calculated reason for burning it down
MrScottie301 that is fun about Terrence Mallick are awesome for hearing characters thoughts!!! Thin Red Line stomps on that Ryan movie for that as far as I’m concerned. Just pure cinematic gold!! I was done though. If they woulda had three more years of people talking and not doing much? I woulda quit. I liked the acceleration. It was a runaway train. I was strapped to the front bumper. And I loved it. For the record. I quit mcu after civil war. Tony could have and should have finished Bucky and cap. Now way did they stand a chance in the midst of blood fury. Nobody is willing to accept BvS. (my favourite comic movie) cause of changes it made to characters. But Starks suit is supposedly maybe ten times as strong as Cap. But they are evened out in fist fight. And no one cares. DC forever We are Venom RIP Xmen Joker is gonna kill!!!!
Gray , great vid as always , and it has become the case with the later seasons in terms of book to screen adaptation or surpassing the source material altogether it is not so much where we ended up but how we got there. The lack of build up or foundation laid , rushed delivery and deus ex machina all over the place (final season especially) is at issue. That being said the book characters and plot-lines that were either dramatically altered or omitted altogether on the show can yield huge differences in terms of where the books end up in comparison and no doubt the path / delivery to get us there. Even if the books endgame went exactly the same as the show (which it won't) but hypothetically if it did , GRRM would lay the proper foundation where his choices are plausible and actually make sense, which the latter seasons of the show generally did not. As far as Dany I am definitely hoping for some clear divergences from where the show brought us and if we do get a mad or vengeful Dany that GRRM will give us much more cause to buy that , more examples of her giving into her more ruthless side and perhaps some beyond rationalization unjustified acts of cruelty to show she is skewing that way etc. Unlike the show which showed Dany sacrificing a dragon in S7 and half her army to save the realm at the detriment of her own aspirations, only to go full Queen of the Ashes within a couple episode span. The personal theory I subscribe to / where I think it will go in the books is that fAegon will likely take KL and depose the monarch he comes upon at the time , gaining a lot of support from the lords of the realm for doing so and the fact he is claiming to be Rhaegar's son. Meanwhile Dany may similarly to that of the show , possibly lose a dragon and a big portion of her army (likely in defeating the Others or Euron or both) and see someone who she will view as a fraud / pretender (fAegon) swoop in and beat her to the Iron Throne or be the one lined up for it , which will likely anger her immensely. fAegon having the formidable Golden Company and Dany greatly annoyed and angered at these events will want to prove him a fraud and likely attack KL with her dragons as part of this and perhaps unintentionally ignite hidden Wildfire caches which would inflict unintended huge damage to the city and likely lose a lot of the support she would have gained by then. That on top of the fact the lords of the realm have a history of favoring a male heir who is asserting a better claim than her on paper (even if it ends up a false claim) who will have likely just ousted the sitting monarch ; and such would make the figurative mountain she is trying to climb that much more difficult. As of now thats what i am going with and who knows I could be very wrong but I am excited to see where GRRM takes us with Dany / her arc and I hope to see some major differences compared to that of the show.
tulkas 42o hey , thanks mate , I could be totally wrong in the end but that’s what I am going with as of now before we get TWoW / more textual material. For the most part here i’m basically picking and choosing from theories I’ve heard and adding a little bit of my own twists , keeping what i like most , and what could be most satisfying to the reader and narrative with Dany (while leaving out parts I don’t like or don’t think work. Let’s see , I could be totally wrong , I probably will be tbh but until we get another book most of us in the fandom keep speculating , predicting and theorizing , hoping some of it holds up and might actually be on the books even if just partially.
Good video grayarea very similar to the order of the green hand videos yeah I do agree Kings Landing is going to be a accident i’m sure it’s going to be Cersei Lannister light in the fuse to the wildfire
Great video as always Gray! Maybe you could do one about Sansa, because Show Sansa sucks so much! All of what happen to Jon and Dany in S8 is her fault, mainly (and Tyrion).
I will always love Khaleesi. Daenerys Stormborn of House Targaryen. Queen of the Andals and the First Men. Lord of the 7 kingdoms and Protector of the Realm. The Breaker of Chains, Mysha, The Mother of Dragons.
Thank you, Gray!! Thank you for giving me hope that our Queen will have a better book ending. I'm ok with her dying. Just make it more meaningful, GRRM!!! Make it make sense! Fire and Blood!!
My best friend got upset at me because I made him a peanut butter sandwich, knowing full-well he has a serious peanut allergy. I explained that I was just subverting his expectations.
I was always a Tyrion supporter!...but then the idiots that are D&D decided to turn Him into an Idiot...Our Queen only had to burn Cersei down then proceed to win the war against the Knight King...so many ways to keep Her from becoming a Mad Queen!....Shame on your pathetic short sighted and disgraceful ending to an amazing story!...if you didn’t want to finish it, why not give it to someone who did!?!?
Sadly D&D decided to abandon reason for madness in season 7. Dany is still the Queen we chose, burning KL to ash made me love her more. Wish she had burned Winterfell too.
Thank you Gray Area! As someone who named their daughter Daenerys I got sick of the jokes, comments and articles about those who named their daughter Daenerys. I have no regrets! My daughter was born 2 pounds and need a fire & Blood type name. Appreciate this video ❤️🐲
I personally felt more connected to Dany in the books than I ever did in the show. Not to insult Emlia Clark, because I do love her. Some of her best acting came from season 8. The look of despair on her face as the bells rang....ugh, truly outstanding. I can see Dany slipping into madness in the books, as people often do when they become all powerful. I could see her slipping if she ever loses a dragon. It overall sucks because next to Jon, Dany was the hero of the story.
A bit late reply but THANK YOU. I love daenerys but I can see her flaws, many many of her fans seem to think she's a perfect hero, the same way she sees herself. But her flaws may cause her to go mad, and that doesn't mean evil or cruel, just not sane. She is naive and that is her greatest flaw. But that doesn't mean I hate her. Her fans go ballistic when someone says that, they start saying I'm evil and don't feel empathy blah blah blah.
Emilia Clark is a big part of why a lot of people dislike show Dany - but few will acknowledge this. She's just not that great an actress unfortunately. There's plenty of likeable characters that do bad things - but are enjoyable because of the performance of their actors/actresses. Dany is just boring - she's not any worse than some of the other main characters but the fact a lot of people like her comes down to seeing her as a heroic character which I think is strange but will also be shown to be false in the book. Ultimately no one is a perfect ruler for Westeros.
@@nutyyyyno it’s not Emilia it’s the writing she had to fight for dany to show her compassion and heart because they wanted her to be cold. In the books she’s laughing and more generous but she hides it all to the fact that she feels lonely and sad most of the time
I don’t blame Daenerys! She should’ve hit King’s Landing hard w/ all 3 Dragons & all her allies, just as Yara suggested. Also, she should’ve listened 2 Lady Ollena & been a Dragon!! Daenerys Targaryen is still my queen!! 🐉👑
There is only one way I can see Dany's ending being the same in the books and that is if Cersei somehow transforms into a hero. Dany and Cersei are supposed to be counter-points, each offsetting the other. It serves no purpose for Dany to have essentially the same story-arc as Cersei. Cersei is intended to be the villain. I don't think Dany is ever intended to become a villain. That does not mean she won't lose everything. Like Cersei. It is more than possible that both of them lose everything. Their stories mirror each other. But that doesn't mean they end the same way. In fact, it defeats the purpose for them to. Dany, because she is a good person, sacrifices everything, but is rewarded in the end. You can make your own guesses as to how. Cersei is unwilling to sacrifice anything, but everything is taken from her anyway, including her life.
Santa her final chapter in the books so far is her literally embracing the dragon and her heritage. Her madness is her Messiah complex and that she believes the is owed a throne to a home she has never lived in. When she gets to Westeros and finds that the people don't want her and when she starts exhibiting her "heroic tendencies" on characters we know we will see how noble she is.
What if she does burn the city, but by accident? The wildfire/valirian fire could still be hidden in King'sLanding,and with a bit of dragon fire well...
thats exactly what will happen in the books. tyrion knows about the pots of wildfire in the city and he hates the people of KL more than anything. maybe faegon and jon c are going to be involved too.
If they can include Jons resurrection for it to mean nothing in the end they definitely wouldn't have passed that opportunity for Dany either, Dany won't be resurrected they wouldn't leave that out
Daeneryse is like literaly my queen and shes the lord of the dragons fire and ice dragons shes the ruler of all dragons i literally wished for 3 pet dragons and all the dire wolves like idk if my wish w ill c ome true but nomatter what i have the gsme of thrones dire wolf stuff animals so i hope my wish id true
A woman can’t be powerful without being crazy??? I hate what they did. It was such a missed opportunity to have a complex and strong character that wasn’t “wifey” and tested the double standard men have. In the show all the duds killed but only she was considered crazy for doing it.
I was a fanatic. I watched all 7 seasons at least 4 times, waiting patiently for the long year for season 8. After the 8th season I haven't watch it. I was soooooo disappointed. I could bear it. Seeing John kill Daenerys left me speachless.😳😲I wanted 🐉Drogon to burn him🤨 though I loved John too. Don't get me wrong the Producers did an excellent job with 7 years of bringing us into this world. Because all needed a break from our reality of this world.🤯 Got to give the props for that. Lets not forget that the special effects were superb, eye pleasing and I was thoroughly entertained. 🦋
So GRRM serving us the powerful woman that becomes crazy and a man has to kill her trope, wow how meaningful... never done before, somebody give him all the awards lol what a genius! an old man that writes about female characters just like the rest of old male writers
@@romarssieverything9667 The throne didnt make Cersei that way, she was always evil. It was just who she was. Rhaenyra lost her mind cuz all her children but 1 died in a short period of time. It can happen to the best of us, men or women. But it seems men in his story are immune. Unless ur Targaryen. As if Aerys had no reason to be paranoid at all. The honorable lord Rickard stark was trying to depose him for real, and not because he was a threat to the ppl, but because Stark wanted it for himself. Yet they wrote him as a victim. If anyone deserved wildlife if house stark. It became more obvious with each passing book or season. Every time they come south they start wars, then cry victim
@@anycullen21 Martin is showing me how stupid he has become in his old age, a bitter old man who is more than happy to destroy a female characters Legacy in favour of his own elitist agenda
You FORGO TO POINT OUT. Daenerys is NOT a begger. Even if Jon show had the rightful air. IT WAS NORMAL FOR TARGARYEN TO BREED EVEN IF THEY ARE FAMILY! WHY WOULD DAENERYS BE WORRIED IF A TARGARYEN IS SITTING ON THE THRONE. THEY WOULD JUST BREED AND CONTINUE TO RULE TOGETHER! SEASON 8 WAS TERRIBLE
First, hugs Grey, thank you for standing up for my girl, Daeny. I don’t think Daeny was supposed to die, it just didn’t make any sense with her story arch. I love the points you showcased that leads the path to her, or what was supposed to be, her destiny. In the show, they just dropped the character of Quaith, it would have made so much more sense to just leave this character out, since they didn’t expand on her importance in the show. Daeny, is such a strong, and smart character, by the time she reached Dragon Stone, she is not a naïve little girl any longer, so no, she would not have allowed Rhaegal to die, and she wouldn’t have gone bat shit crazy like the show. Blood and Fire, yes the Targaryan’s use their dragons in war, but like Daeny said to Jon sometimes you have to do terrible things, and when she executed Randal Tarley and his son, it was in war, not b/c she’s power hungry. So thank you Grey, for defending and showing why we love our Queen so much.
In order to be a great ruler she'd have to be true neutral Danny herself is a cross between lawful good and chaotic neutral she's like a hybrid of the two of those
Welcome back. Just wish GRR Martin would sit down and write the 2 damn books! Preferably before he dies or I die! I'm already in my mid-seventies and he's no spring chicken!🙏🙏
Does she call herself a Targaryen? Nobody, including herself, calls her Daenerys Targaryen... it’s always Daenerys Stormborn of House Targaryen... some imply she is a true Targaryen, but it’s never said she is Daenerys Targaryen... She is a Dayne... The Amethyst Empress Reborn. She is not a Queen, an Empress, she rules many lands, not just one....
ultimately George will be judged first and foremost on his treatment of Daenerys. confused by this video, I think she is by far the most revered in the franchise !
I think it's possible Cercei will leave a trap of innocents protecting her and having wildfire leading from the red keep to the city causing Dany to indirectly kill many innocents. Maybe after she sees these innocents on the streets is what changes her. I wouldn't be mad if this is what makes her mad. Imagine a scene of her walking the streets of kings landing seeing the innocent children caught in her flames. That could be what changes her.
Omg Gray can I just take a moment to thank you for persevering? Your videos do so much for people and you put so much effort into your craft, and as a fan all I can feel is gratitude . Thanks for the amazing videos I truly hope this channel brings you as much joy as it does for me 😊
I don't give a crap with Dany haters. They can all......(Ok, breathe in, breathe out) I still wear my Targaryen stuff, rock my Targaryen backpack and she's still and always will be my Queen. Season 8 gave me ptsd no lie. Every time my hubby calls me and my phone rings 'See you for who you are' I'm a mess but I can't make myself change it. I'll be reading Fire and Blood and the other Targaryen books but I'm holding off on the ASOIAF series until GRRM finishes it.....hopefully.....maybe...cross your fingers and toes.
The first few seasons, IMO, were the best representation of ASoIaF books-to-TV characters. In season 5 and onwards, D&D flanderized the characters: instead of being the complex human beings they were supposed to be, they took the most representative characteristic and made their characters into that: Daenerys giving out one-liners, Tyrion being sarcastic, Littlefinger and Varys repeating monologues from seasons past, Bran being completely useless that he wasn't even featured in season 5 lmao, etc.
@@cainyourkids In season 1-4, the characters were screwed with. Robb was turned into a fantasy hero, Catelyn was more of a mother than a politician/wife/mother, a non-existent child was given to Cersei and Robert to 'humanize' them, Tysha was mentioned a few times, and then when the events regarding her really matter, they ignore it at the end of season 4.
