The Truth about KTM's Demo Mode (from a real owner)

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For 2023 KTM has introduced their demo mode, which allows you to try features such as cruise control, quickshifter, rally mode and more. We cover what the demo mode is and isn't, how it works, and the pros and cons. #motorcycle #ktm
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Комментарии : 611

@BigRockMoto 10 месяцев назад

Now that you know what it is, do you think KTM's demo mode is good or bad? Share below.

@rjsalameh 10 месяцев назад

It seems to me that those features are a good value @ $700. But the way this was rolled out seems silly. Why create this angst for the customer. Just have them choose that option at the dealer when they bought the bike. I don’t have a KTM mostly because they don’t appeal to me aesthetically. But this approach makes me wonder about lots of other things with this manufacturer.

@Isha048 10 месяцев назад

I'm not for demo, or trial at all. You buy that bike, and the KTM dealer should say... there are some interesting features in this package, do you want it? Obviously, they have a cost, period. Then I decide. This is my opinion. I'm not for electronics, like USB, connections with phones, tablet, PC or whatever. When I drive a bike, I drive a bike, my phone is off in my pocket, I don't need any kind of USB connection. I have a map in my pocket, I have a mouth to ask for indications. I was born where electronics wasn't even a word. This world is upside down and I don't like it. A lot of people are interested in money only and take advantage of others. Let's see what will happen next. Thanks for the video, interesting!

@GCTO239 10 месяцев назад

My honest opinion: demo mode is complete nonsense! KTM should be honest and admit that this is a hidden markup. KTMs are already overpriced. Quality does not hold up to the sticker.

@GCTO239 10 месяцев назад

Common, everybody wants these extras. Customers are fooled.

@mac46rr 10 месяцев назад

Then you’d get assholes moaning that it’s too expensive and I’d buy it if it didn’t have all the tech features on! The manufacturers can’t win. FFS! If you don’t want them then don’t get them. Let them stay locked after 1500KM Not difficult.

@johnno4616 10 месяцев назад

KTM should charge the full price with all the features included, then offer a $700 discount if you don’t want them. That would be a PR win, as opposed to the bad PR that has been generated by their current approach

@phatsmitty 10 месяцев назад

Excellent

@ttrguy9952 10 месяцев назад

@@phatsmitty YUP!!

@onemileattatime2642 10 месяцев назад

Novel Approach!

@MrRodwatson 10 месяцев назад

I guess the glass would be "half full" then....🤔🤔🤔

@gtpits 10 месяцев назад

Dream on

@jeffday777 10 месяцев назад

If I was adding the additional hardware features of cruise control, quick shifter, rally mode, etc., to a bike I would expect to pay for it, like I did with my R1250GSA. However, with KTM, the hardware is already installed on the bike and their hardware costs are already incorporated into their pricing structure. So essentially the owner has already paid for it. Charging an extra software 'turn-on fee' after the demo period expires seems underhanded. If the bike came with the hardware installed for these features it should keep working without holding the new owner hostage to keep it working. KTM really dropped the ball on this one.

@orange1666 9 месяцев назад

Only in your opinion ! Compare and other bike in this price range and show me one that has this spec ?

@KingJreff 6 месяцев назад

@@orange1666 The hardware is on the bike and they sold it at X price. Therefore, they baked it all into the price of the bike, because otherwise they'd lose money on every single bike whose owner does not purchase the subscription/activation. For example, I bought heated grips for my DesertX ($200) but the dealer has to "activate" that setting in the ECU for the OEM button to work. Now imagine if those heated grips were standard.. the bike would not have cost $17000, it would have been $17200 or whatever arbitrary number they make up to cover parts. Then I'd also pay activation for the feature. That is what KTM is doing.

@orange1666 6 месяцев назад

@@KingJreff 🥱🥱🥱

@jbaidley 10 месяцев назад

This isn't a subscription service but it sure feels like dipping a toe in the water and seeing how people react in order to ready the ground for subscription services later. Once you've set up for "demo mode", turning it into "premium features subscription" is pretty trivial.

@hamare 10 месяцев назад

100%, this is the slippery slope we've been warning about. Car makers are transforming add-ons into subscriptions, KTM is following the same path.

@justsomedude445 10 месяцев назад

so neither of you have bought a new car or truck in the last 30 years either then

@simulacrae 10 месяцев назад

On bikes? Not really as they’re not connected to internet. If they become connected, sure. But that’s not the reality right now.

@Tethmes 10 месяцев назад

Make no mistake, if the tech is on the bike, the base price of the bike accounts for those features being included. They're not doing anyone a favor by allowing us the option to turn them on for more money. While it might not be a subscription, its the same unethical business practice that car manufacturers use when charging subscriptions to turn on features that are already there. If you bought the bike, you bought those features. Whether or not its enabled.

@Mycatz 10 месяцев назад

Couldn’t agree more.

@exothermal.sprocket 10 месяцев назад

If it's functional visible hardware which makes the difference, you get what you pay for. If a vehicle is jammed with electronics, how now is a corporation supposed to monetize the value of all the R&D that was required to get those electronics properly functional? If you're buying a PC, there's the cost of hardware, but you have to also pay for the digits that make the hardware functional. How is that any different in the vehicle world which is getting increasingly more dependent on silicon chips to make decisions about how the experience functions?

@davidwales9657 10 месяцев назад

@@exothermal.sprocket false equivalence. The actual equivalent in the computer world would be buying a graphics card, and then having to pay extra for the drivers.

@exothermal.sprocket 10 месяцев назад

@@davidwales9657 Everyone is a contrarian on the internet. It's word smith drag racing. Who can hit the lights sooner and win all the word drag arguments.

@davidwales9657 10 месяцев назад

@@exothermal.sprocket are you saying you lost? Because if so, its been a pleasure

@bobvandick2546 10 месяцев назад

I too purchased a 2023 KTM 890 Adventure. I knew that I wanted the features that the tech pack included, so I paid the $700 up front when purchasing the bike. I made it a point to verify that the tech pack was enabled and that I wouldn’t need to return to the dealer to have them enable the tech pack. Well, guess what happened….I was on a 5 day motorcycle trip and my features disappeared at about 960 miles. Losing the quickshifter was a real drag because our route had sections that would make the tail of the dragon look tame. What was unforgivable was losing the cruise control. I called my dealer from the road and told them what happened. The kid in the service department said they were still learning about it and didn’t think the demo made could be deactivated. I don’t know if KTM did a good job educating the dealer or not regarding disabling the demo mode. Personally, I didn’t care about paying for the tech pack to get the features I wanted. What really irks me is the fact that there is that Bluetooth connectivity doesn’t come standard on the bike, that is yet another extra. If I had known that, I most likely would’ve gotten another bike because that is hitting below the belt. I think the TPMS is a safety feature that should be included as standard…many other bikes do. I don’t care about the navigation aspect, my phone and com system does that. Other than that, I do enjoy the bike…just feel like I’ve been taken to the cleaners. I will not be returning to the dealer to get any more service done after getting the tech pack installed, they have no concept of what service after the sale means. When test riding the bike, I noticed a wheel hop between the speeds of 37 and 50 mph. When picking up the bike I was told the front 8:02 wheel had been rebalanced and everything checked out good. Upon riding it home, it was still there. A week later, I returned it to the dealer to have them check it out. I returned a couple days later, and was told everything was fine…rode it home, hop was still there. When the break-in service came due, I decided to take it to another dealer. I mentioned the wheel hop and they also rebalanced the front wheel….rode the bike back home, still had the wheel hop. Took the bike back, they acknowledged that was a wheel hop and rebalanced the wheel yet again. When picking it up, I was told that they were unable to get rid of the hop and it was most likely an incompatibility between the tire and the bike…huh? At this point, I contacted KTM factory service and explained my dilemma I was experiencing. He told me to take the bike back to the dealer that actually acknowledged that there was a wheel hop and have them open up a warranty case. KTM factory service people worked with the local service technicians to diagnose the issue. After ruling out all possibilities, it was determined that it had to be either the tire or the wheel. KTM is going to put a new set of tires on the bike under warranty. Kudos to KTM for backing what they are selling.

@captainbarnicle8548 10 месяцев назад

What a scam. The bike you buy has the software and hardware but gets turned off. Why turn it off?? Pure extortion!! I’ll never buy another KTM, they have no ethics!!

@tomekvilmovskiy6547 10 месяцев назад

2023: demo mode: 15000km, quickshifter and cruise disabled 2025: demo mode: 10000km, headlight, turn signals, HUD disabled 2027: demo mode: 1000km, front brake disabled 2030: demo mode: 100km, then max speed is10km/h

@nomading_in 10 месяцев назад

I recently purchased this up front when buying the new 790 adventure. I'd be someone who sits on I could live without it, so had to evaluate from a "is this good value" perspective, and ultimately my answer was yes. These are a good bundle of very useful features for not that crazy amount of money, and all in, the price is still pretty good in comparison with other options in the class (couldn't even get cruise control if I wanted it for the Transalp, for example). I also convinced the dealer to knock about 250 off that price too, so not feeling annoyed about it after the fact.

@BlazinBlades 10 месяцев назад

Yes! They overestimated the IQ level of their customers 😂😂 I totally agree with you🍻🍻 After-all the ‘free sample’ method has been out-there for ages…

@johnnyblue4799 10 месяцев назад

I thing they underestimated that said IQ. This is not a free sample. This is the whole package. With the free sample you get a smaller something (perfume, toothpaste whatever) then if you like it you go buy the actual product. KTM is giving you the whole freaking thing and won't let you use it. If you think you didn't already pay for the extra hardware, you're likely mistaken.

@ehiggins7476 10 месяцев назад

Hahaha

@BlazinBlades 10 месяцев назад

@@johnnyblue4799 free sample of all 4 features for 1,500 km. Pick all, none or just one… It’s not a perfume it’s added features which you can purchase if you want them. I think I would only purchase the cruise control for myself but your mileage may vary 🍻🍻

@Alastairtheduke1 10 месяцев назад

The biggest question, which is really hard to answer, is if the hardware for the extras was not on the bike at time of purchase, would that lower the price of the bike. Only ktm knows that, but I'm assuming that since they bolted the hardware on, they will at least to some degree increase the sale of the base bike. As a consumer, all you can do is compare the base bike to other models and see if it's worth it. KTM's are generally more expensive so the choice is up to the consumer.

@motodude2289 10 месяцев назад

I also picked up a new 2023 890 adventure about a month ago, luckily the dealership I worked with really had their stuff together. They were able to explain exactly what the tech pack was and how it worked, even gave me a discount on it since I got the tech pack same day as the bike. (I knew I would want all the electronics.) Find yourself a good dealer to work with folks and it makes the process a lot better, check out GJ KTM in Colorado.

@LetsGo-wl5zo 10 месяцев назад

I think its easier and faster to have one production line with all the features build in it, and enable it (with extra cost) with software settings.

@adam346 10 месяцев назад

it's like ordering a burger and then they bring you a decked out burger with all the toppings, scrape it off to the side and say "ok, toppings extra", sure it means that every time a burger gets ordered the process is smoother but those toppings don't get re-used.. they are thrown in the bin if you don't use them.

@bjorngb 10 месяцев назад

EXACTLY

@richardfrantz9539 10 месяцев назад

One production line make’s economic sense. Another way of looking at it is you would pay for extra farkles like skid plates, hand guards etc. the option of having these things seamlessly integrated the product is compelling. The sticking point is these things are hardware with a physical presence and the KTM options are electrical and have no solid components. You were spot on with saying KTM has a PR or marketing problem that possibly may resolve in time. Then again, they may have PR work to do.

@neonsamurai1348 10 месяцев назад

Problem is some of these features also require extra hardware to function such as the quick shifter and suspension pro. Those can't be made purely software based, and you will be definitely paying for those extras in the base price of the motorcycle. It may not be as utterly egregious as Tesla charging for extended range, and the batteries are already included and payed for in the car (and worse the weight of those extra useless batteries decrease the range further). But I am still against it and think including extra hardware on a vehicle that you pay for and cannot use without paying for software or a monthly fee should be illegal. Plus it is a slippery slope, if they get away with this, what will they try next? maybe down-tuning the engine unless you give them more money, how about paywalling safety features, heated grips and seats but only if you give them a monthly subscription?

@adam346 10 месяцев назад

@@richardfrantz9539 my problem is there is a no-win situation for the consumer though... you already bought the bike... KTM are not going to open their books and tell you whether or not the extra cost of manufacturing was already rolled in.. you just have to take it on faith.. but then are you also paying for the fact the hardware was installed on every other bike if you do decide to buy it? They are not doing you any favors as a company, they are out for profit so you really have to decide which truth you prefer and be ok with either paying extra for something that might already have been paid for or paying more for something because other people are not using it.

@kregearhart 10 месяцев назад

Thanks for another great video Ian! I, have no issue with this DEMO mode, as long as KTM and it's dealers stress and give the info up front. "Here's all these features, you can DEMO them for x Miles / Hours or you can buy any or all of them up front". It's all about being honest up front. Personally, I'll pay up front! Also, curious....which do you prefer... 890S vs 901 Norden?

@lubomirhribik2216 10 месяцев назад

Thanks for sharing your experience and thoughts. Great video content as always - very informative and brief. I think if they presented this demo mode the opposite way as a "sale" or discount, so that if you dont want to use it on the start because you want spend money elsewhere and then you will comeback and turn that features later on, it would have better audience than a "premium feature" label.

@porkshank13 10 месяцев назад

If they had just added $700 to the cost of the bike and automatically included it, no one would have bat an eye. It's the psychology of having something and then having it taken away that throws people off. For me the only minor annoyance would be the need to go back to the dealer. Really hoping you do a direct comparison of the Tuareg and the KTM. Thank you for the content Ian!

@240LTS 10 месяцев назад

... Those that wanted to could have it set to not expire at all when they first purchased it, correct? Ride well, . Jeff .

@Alexfreimuth 10 месяцев назад

Exactly, no one who can afford this bike would be bothered by the extra $700.

@chucklesthefireguy5356 10 месяцев назад

going back to dealer is a royal pain. stupid idea, needs to be corrected ASAP.

@chrisssinstockholm 10 месяцев назад

No need to go back to the dealer. Just order the Tech pack to be activated before delivery. A 790/890 without the Tech pack is not special.

@ehiggins7476 10 месяцев назад

@@chucklesthefireguy5356just pay the $700 the day you buy it

@Brad-RB 10 месяцев назад

In early 2022 I was comparing an R1250GS to a 1290 SAS. The KTM was advertised for significantly less money. When the tech features and an additional year of warranty were added, the KTM was more money than the comparable BMW. Demo Mode is a way to get people in the door of a KTM dealer using a bit of deception. But deception and sales seem to be regular dancing partners in general, no matter the brand. My $.02

@SashR 10 месяцев назад

In scope of motorcycles this is bad approach. If you decide not to buy all these whistles and bells, you still have to carry this extra weight with you. It is not that important on the cars, but motorcycles, where the weight means a lot - it is another story

@paultannahill5043 10 месяцев назад

How much do software bytes weigh?

@PovilasPanavas 10 месяцев назад

@@paultannahill5043 he speaks about hardware. They have quick sifter hardware, extra button for cruise control, some extra sensors for angles, etc. But I bet it's like max 0.5kg. One could simply loose that weight with a good dump before riding the bike 😅

@tomg6284 10 месяцев назад

What, maybe 1pound in total? Come on, eat 1 less donut. Splitting hairs; it is just a motorcycle not a rocket going to the moon.

@tomg6284 10 месяцев назад

This video length is perfect. Thanks. I have a 22- 390 Adventure and went back to the dealer for quickshifter+ install. I would have saved lots of time just getting it when I bought the bike. I do love the quickshifter and it was worth the money.

@johnnyblue4799 10 месяцев назад

Agreed but that's not what the debate is about.

@JamesMorgan2 10 месяцев назад

I'm find with charging for the Tech package like this. The issue I have is with some dealers. The place I was originally planning on buying this bike from, wanted to charge me $822 for the tech pack. This is after I'd questioned the fact the sales guy said it was about $1000. The place I'm now getting the bike from is going to charge $699 pre tax ($744). Needless to say I won't be giving the initial dealer any more business.

@willardivins3736 10 месяцев назад

I enjoy your channel, Ian. Straightforward and honest. $700? Hmmm.... Dealers in the St. Louis / Southern Illinois are quoting around the $900 mark.

@yngvejerns6888 10 месяцев назад

Hi Ian, I hope you’ll consider making a video of how you’ve equipped your 890. You have a great channel!

@martinlegrice1414 10 месяцев назад

I think you did an excellent job explaining this. One definitely has to realize that you were always going to pay for the features. The rub though was packaging as a demo mode. Curious about peoples experiences at the dealer and point of sale...did the dealer fully explain and give you the option up front to purchase?

@craigwall8703 10 месяцев назад

Hi Ian love your work. This is a tuff one, I get that they enable electronic suite so you can have a try before you buy but i can see why customers feel they are being cheated with bike already fully enabled. Dare i say most of us already know what we want before dropping our hard earned cash on a new bike anyway so i reckon the experiment is a fail.

@timdudeney5072 10 месяцев назад

One reason they're doing it. On the whole, it's cheaper to build one bike with no options and everything the same. So the "extras" now cost them less, at least on a per unit basis, and then as you said, they'll hope people get used to having it, and suddenly miss it when it stops. The second part, and this is more relevant to say bmw with their pay per feature setup on cars, but will be similar to a lesser extent with bikes. Resale will be higher for a low spec model, because owner 2 or 3 etc can go and "activate" a feature they want, even if the original buyer didn't pay for it. Ergo to me, cruise is a deal breaker. But now I could buy the non cruise activated bike, knowing I can quickly and easily add it. Not have to go aftermarket &/or hack job. Which can be expensive, painful, or both. A cynic would say a bmw dealer could trade a used car, deactivate the features to "re sell" them to the next buyer. Or an astute second hand shopper could negotiate features as a requirement of purchase. Either way, it's certainly becoming a brave new world our there, for better or worse.

@gerokron3412 10 месяцев назад

It depends on the customers. If they think the KTM-strategy works for them, more manufacturers will be doing it aswell. If there is more critisism than benefits, then the strategy will be altered again.

@240LTS 10 месяцев назад

... My brother in Montana has that bike and he just got the full modes turned back on. I can see both sides of the subject. Ride well, . Jeff .

@KMeyn 10 месяцев назад

Frankly I think it was all blown out of proportions. Then again I'm an old IT guy. What KTM did has been de facto in software businesses for a long time. But they should perhaps have spent a little bit more time on the "what if's" before launching. I bought the same bike as you, with tech pack and a few other options. One bein the Powerparts LEDs which I think are surprisingly good for their small size. Never regretted ny of it. A bike with all bells and whistles inherently has greater value in an aftermarket. Especially where I am at. Now, soon 15.000 kilometers later, I don't regret my choices any less, whether we talk about the bike as a whole, or the extra options :) Cheers.

@plt4415 10 месяцев назад

I like the way you think and kindly way of expressing it

@MikeMageeGoog 10 месяцев назад

I see you got a better skid plate, looks awesome! - what make is that?, I need to get one since I still have the thin OEM version

@randyownby7406 10 месяцев назад

Hi , I think demo mode is fine .. good job on all your videos ! Also what brand skid plate is that ? I am needing one … especially after Your incident with the case .. thanks

@joshkirkby8103 8 месяцев назад

I kinda understand and think it’s good for stuff like the cruise control and quick shift that have always just come on the bike already. I do think it’s a big problem tho especially in the case of the BMW heated seats where they are charging money and wasting resources on putting features in every car and then forcing you to pay extra to use them

@tsorel1600 10 месяцев назад

Soon, a manufacturer will create one motorcycle and charge you to turn on different levels of performance. The base level will be provided with “250” stickers and 18hp. Give the dealer an additional $1500 and they will apply “650” stickers and open the power to 50hp. For $10k extra, they skip the 950 stickers and go straight to the 1300, apply a gold wrap to your suspension and unlock the 150hp. Next year, they will provide you with an OTA update for the 1350 and a discount voucher for an extra 5 lb-ft torque.

@bobz1736 10 месяцев назад

Oooh... looking forward to this 😀

@burahmah 10 месяцев назад

Hello I’ve been watching your videos for a long time now. Thank you for the precious information. Yes I think that KTM is doing this demo mode so people can understand and know how these features run before they purchase plus it’s an advertisement thingy. I would like to know what brand is the skid plate that you installed on the motorcycle as it covers both sides of the tank. Thank you

@hardyeleonore 10 месяцев назад

I did my homework about the bike and knew about the demo mode.There was actually a bike show in Toronto where KTM was giving away tech packs for free,so I was one of the lucky ones and did not pay for a tech pack.I would have paid for the tech pack anyways,love the bike and all the features.

@Gofr5 10 месяцев назад

Was this at the bike show they do over by the airport in January each year or another one?

@fabienpics 3 месяца назад

Hi, I think the better way to do from the Cie is sale with full options already on. The bike probably cost more like 700 $ , but you pay more and you have more. So like that if from the cie every thing are on the bike when you buy .... you just decide if you want to choose this bike at some price. And you have a full load bike... for a little bit more $$

@matt_kelly 10 месяцев назад

I bought a 2021 earlier this year instead of getting a 2023, partially for this reason. Demo Mode merely put a spotlight on the bad practice of putting the hardware and software on the bike and burying the charges in the base price. It seems it is inevitable as features move towards software implementation instead of hardware, but I think this is one case where progress isn’t universally seen as a good thing.

@TristanNicolas 10 месяцев назад

The concept of "free trial" is very common in the world of software, maybe they should have named it this way to avoid confusion instead of trying to be clever with "demo mode".

@WWADV 10 месяцев назад

Hey Ian, the spot at 4:58, where there are a few seconds of black video, was there supposed to be a price comparison sheet? Odd blackout/silence at that spot.

@gtpits 10 месяцев назад

As you said skip the demo mode and just get the tech pack when you buy the bike. If you are a ktm buyer you are going to want the tech pack, it is worth the money. You will not be disappointed. Lots of people change suspension, foot pegs, handle bars, seats, mirrors, levers etc, etc and add luggage and racks,all at extra price, so in context charging for tech pack features is no better or worse, just a fact of riding life.

@creedm3040 10 месяцев назад

I think it's a great idea. You get to try out all the bells and whistles for 900 miles and pick what you want. Ala Carte. If I was in the market for a KTM I would do that in a heartbeat. Best!

@allanschuster3520 10 месяцев назад

Ian, Thanks for your opinion on the Demo Mod issue. I agree it should be offered as an "option" up front. That would eliminate a lot of the criticism. BTW, when will we see an update on your suspension upgrades ?

@thebigoaktree8401 10 месяцев назад

I’d rather be able to test the extra upgrades and decline them later, rather than paying upfront for some features that I’ll never use. Ex. Quickshifter, or turn by turn navigation 👎🏾 I think the problem is that some riders attempt to grasp at bikes beyond their price range in the first place. Personally, I was in the market for an adventure bike since 2018 but didn’t set foot in a dealer ship until 2023 when I knew that I could afford the entire bike with any extras I wanted on it. Bike: 2023 Tiger Rally Pro.

@johnnyblue4799 10 месяцев назад

The point is that even if you decline those features later you still paid for them. KTM won't install extra bits for free and the bike comes fully enabled.

@dantton1987 10 месяцев назад

How do you know for sure you haven't payed for it already? You thing KTM would give all the sensors, lines of code and actuators for free?

@thebigoaktree8401 10 месяцев назад

@@johnnyblue4799 I understand. But it isn’t like I didn’t know that KTM was doing this before I purchased the bike, or I was thinking of purchasing the bike. If that’s how they want to proceed in their feature roll out then that’s what it is …for now anyway. Definitely think it won’t last because of customer/potential customer feedback. What’s my choice then? Buy the bike and pay a little extra later OR buy a bike from a different manufacturer. Simple. I’m not married to that brand even though I like their bikes. Truth is a lot of buyers bikes/feature wants can lean toward the unreasonable. Everyone wants the best bikes at garage sale prices. Not realistic.

@johnnyblue4799 10 месяцев назад

@@thebigoaktree8401I understand what you're saying, but I wasn't debating personal choices here. If you want the bike and you can go over the fact that they're dishonest about how they sell these features, then no problem, go for it. What bothers me is not people buying the bike, but KTM being dishonest. What's next? Buying a new house with demo toilets and if you don't pay after a month you need to dig an outhouse yourself?

@thebigoaktree8401 10 месяцев назад

@@johnnyblue4799 hahaha I get that. Especially if KTM didn’t announce that they were rolling out their extra features in such a way. But if they were up front about how they would, I can dislike it, or even be upset about it but I think it’s only dishonest if I’m not told about it in advance. Personally I have had my fill of video after video of the newest bikes with the best of the best features …until the next bike comes out that out does the last best bike. Manufactures are just manipulating the eager “adventurist” hearts of owners/buyers/potential buyers. One of the reasons why I enjoy Ian is that, yes he reviews bikes, but he regularly engages a variety of bikes on different levels (track day GS, serious off-roading; Ducati). He uses them, learns from them, and shares his experiences with them. I appreciate and respect that. One of the only places that we can have such constructive dialogue about bikes and such. Cheers.

@kawabungah20 10 месяцев назад

It's nice to get a chance to try-before-buy options for a new machine. Sometimes you may decide that you don't want some or all of them, and this gives you time to research the after-market offerings, if any. However, I am glad to hear that KTM does not increase the price for the options if you let the demo package expire.

@Knockelhead 10 месяцев назад

Im gone pick up my 890 adv tomorrow and it already got the tech pack installed

@BigDaveTALKS 10 месяцев назад

I don’t mind the demo mode. I didn’t get the demo mode on my 1290SA-R but my buddy did on his 890R. I learned that the best feature was the “Rally Mode”. I had that activated on my bike and is the best upgrade so far. I have had quick shifters in the past and while they are fun and useful, in some situations, for me it’s not necessary on this bike.

@gideonhajioff8542 10 месяцев назад

I bought mine in June and got Tec pack for free ie included in the deal. They also gave discount on the bike so overall great deal. Worth shopping around.

@christophroither8206 10 месяцев назад

i would love to ride a 890 R and i already had two ktm bikes - a 790 R and a 660 Smc. Both bikes were fun to ride but very, very service intensive. Maybe i had a "monday modell", or just bad luck with my 790R. But come on - i mean its hard to buy a new bike (790R) and i during the first 3000 km - i visited the dealership 4 times because of oil leaking. After that little journey they wanted some extra money for cruise control and other "fancy gadgets". PLS KTM MAKE YOUR BIKES MORE !RELIABLE! i really like your videos! extremly helpful content!!

@dandersonjr 10 месяцев назад

My opinion is that they did this so that they could state a lower MSRP. I think the bike should have had the extra 700 dollars added into the MSRP although it obviously would've been higher. On the other hand when I bought my 2018 1290 SAR the quick shifter was extra and I wasn't interested in that feature so I didn't pay for it and saved some money. If you don't want all the features the demo mode plan works for you but if you do want all of them than you feel like you're getting ripped off so just include them in the MSRP and avoid all the drama.

@allonmor4078 10 месяцев назад

Wanted to let you know that one of the reasons I bought the bike last month was based on your review. We have similar bikes in general. (350 EXC, SV650S track, Super Tenere ES, KTM 890 ADV) I liked Demo mode. I enjoyed experimenting with it. I would have paid for cruise control , since I have it on the Super T, but I was not sure about the quickshifter and rally mode. I am still not sure. 😊 I have been riding clutchless shifting, especially upshifting since my track days over 20 years ago, I am not sure this one is necessary for me. I like rally mode for pavement and hardpack gravel, but not sure I need it for more serious off road. Neither of these are going to break the bank, and I am going to pay for all of it with a discount from the dealer. I believe this was a good decision for KTM to go that route.

@markskennedy 10 месяцев назад

I compared the 890 with the Tuareg 660 and Norden, bought the Aprilia in the end because I was the most comfortable on the bike but the value for money was a big deal too. I wonder how many people will truly benefit from all of the features these electronically advanced bikes have? Things like quick shifters and good traction control settings one can see as being useful to almost everyone in most riding conditions but perhaps the other features could simply be optional extras.

@MegaVipes 10 месяцев назад

Hello! I have the 790 2023, and I think that this is a way to let us test it, if they didn't had the demo Mode how would i know? Keep it up! Thanks for the videos!

@dizzyreckless5991 10 месяцев назад

Good video and well explained as usual mate. Now the tldr: Objective facts (with friends working in the industry) 1. KTM and all other manufacturers make decisions based on all the usual factors i.e. design, material costs, manufacturing lines etc. You will either buy the product, or you won't. 2. It is far cheaper for manufactures to create one product. Then, 'giving access' is another profit centre So, the upshot, the manufacturer saves money by simplifying their manufacturing and delivery processes. Then, they make additional profit by selling you the 'added benefit' of the additions that are already on the product. If the manufacturer were 'nice' (which is obviously the antithesis of running a profit driven endeavour), they would be happy 'enough' with the cost savings garnered by simplifying the manufacturing/deliver processes. If you are not happy with these facts, vote with your wallet. Fully understand however, this is the way forward for most, if not all product manufacturers. KTM was not the first and will certainly not be last.

@MLeitao 10 месяцев назад

First of all, I think people should be better informed when they spent 15000€ on a product, I do cause I have to work a lot for it. You explained everything very well in this video, before if people wanted the tech pack they should have buy it without trying it, now they have a possibility to try, the only thing that I don't like it's the cruise control buttons, cause if you don't want CC they will stay there. The most of the comments out there, are from people that will not buy this bike, and never had the intention to do it. Just one question, the msr it's only for street mode use? In rally mode mine is greyed out.

@damienconlisk8725 10 месяцев назад

Great explanation and all of your bike reviews are very honest and we'll researched,,,,, my take on the demo mode issue is,,,, ktm had a team meeting and a intern trying to climb the company ladder put their hand up and said,,, hey I have a idea on how we can increase some revenue and they ran with it,,,,,,,, and to be honest all of the manufacturers will do similar,,,,, but I have a solution to the demo mode,,,,, first put on your grown up pants and when the option to further the ride modes comes up than buy it or don't buy it simple,,, why do we always have to make news outa non news,,,,,,, now back to Ian,,,, hope more people subscribe great channel

@Hoshi_Toranaga 10 месяцев назад

What people do not get is that the hardware cost is irrelevant as the sensors and metal rods and control switches are cheap of the shelf items. However the software costs huge amounts to develop, especially if you want it to be done in a quality that KTM has (best in class quickshifter and IMU stuff in my opinion). The software cost per unit is huge if you divide the development cost up. Hence it makes sense to enable the software / Install it only after money is paid and the software does not expire, you have a lifetime license for that bike. If you are an industrial designer you buy a Workstation PC that is already expensive, but the Software (e.g. Solidworks) easily costs 10 times what you invested into your PC and nobody whines why did it not come with it already, I have the hardware!

@JohannesDalen 10 месяцев назад

That analogy at the end there was perfect!

@johnnyblue4799 10 месяцев назад

@@JohannesDalen Nope, it wasn't. When you buy Solidworks you expect to make money with it. It's your tool. A computer is what enables you to use your tool. Nobody buys the PC for the sake of it, but to run software on it. The quickshifter/cruise control are not work tools. You can't amortize them. And the software behind it it's much simpler. You just need to keep the rpm constant for the speed to stay where you set it. Really, not rocket science. You can't compare that with Solidworks or AutoCAD.

@ehiggins7476 10 месяцев назад

Well said, but realistically a lot of people feel bikes should cost this or that much and should come with all this extra features for free, and have no idea the R&D cost to develop all these technologies.

@shadowp3000 10 месяцев назад

5 cents has been deposited into your account.

@jackchristodoulou197 10 месяцев назад

Don’t really care if I was buying a new KTM 890 I would negotiate with the dealer to throw in the Tek pack in with the price or I ain’t buying

@lifesjourneyat50 10 месяцев назад

Agree on all points...I think KTM made the mistake of calling it a "Subscription"....or it was labeled as a subscription - Just buy it at time of purchase saves the hassle later on. Nice job and again agree on all points...well done!!

@mrt4755 10 месяцев назад

i wonder if they made a bike that didn't have any of this tech on it at all could you get a 890 for around $10k instead of 15

@MrDavidfuchser 10 месяцев назад

No, because the "tech" is nothing more than basic PID loops. Cruise control, heated grips could be programmed and tuned by a first or second year coder in a day. Lol lets break out an arduino board. The programming that puts these features behind a paywall is much, much more sophisticated and costly.

@mrt4755 10 месяцев назад

@@MrDavidfuchser how do you code heated grips? and quick shifter, cruise control, traction control all require sensors feeding info to the computer wtf are you talking about

@bluezhawg2104 10 месяцев назад

Ian, You make some great points. Interestingly in my experience on the front lines, I find that most of those that are taking issue with the demo mode as it pertains to KTM are not KTM buyers nor riders. Don’t give crying on social media any credit, it’s just crying for cryings sake, keyboard Karens are everywhere, and this is a great example. Since demo mode was introduced I’ve not seen one KTM buyer that took issue with it. To avoid this whole issue buy a Tiger 900 you get more tech all standard, or don’t. Riders should just stop the insanity or start their own bike manufacturer and run it their way. I’m sure they’ll do better than KTM just ask one of them.

@kevindavis5693 10 месяцев назад

I didn’t mind the demo mode when I bought my ‘23 in April. It was fun having all those options but after it expired the only ones I truly missed were the quick shifter and cruise control. Quick shifter just for the smile factor. I wasn’t skilled enough off-road to really appreciate everything about the rally mode. 4,000 mostly off-road miles later and I wish I just paid to have all that turned on when I picked the bike up, but I didn’t know I was going to love it as much as I do. It’s a little bit annoying now as the dealership I got it from is almost two hours away but it’ll give me a reason to go on a long ride some Saturday I guess. At this point it kind of is what it is. If you don’t like it I don’t think KTM cares all that much. Unless they saw a massive dip in sales since this sort of thing I doubt they’re paying that much attention.

@bigj2345 10 месяцев назад

I think the demo mode is a good idea to allow a buyer to try features and see if they want them. What's the process for upgrading? Does the bike need to be at the dealer for weeks, awaiting the service queue for the upgrade? That wouldn't be a good look. If it's a quick, hook up a laptop, enter the registration keys and grt you out in an hour, then that's reasonable.

@michiganmoto7687 10 месяцев назад

My question is this: To unlock the tech pack it costs an additional $700 but it has to be done at a dealership, does the dealership also charge additional money for the service of unlocking the tech pack?

@DJPTEXAS 10 месяцев назад

You are correct Ian, it's how you look at it...I bought a 2017 Super Duke GT and when I realized all the options like quick shifter ect. were separate ,when I went for my first service I paid to have them and other things turned on... no big deal. It is just like buying a Harley and realizing the seat sucks right from the factory and you have to purchase another seat ! At least with the KTM method you do not have to pay a huge labor bill to get those parts on..... Why would Harley want you to purchase all those parts AFTER you just bought a brand new bike ? lol...

@BoardWalkToke 8 месяцев назад

The quick shifter was 100% already factored into the MSRP price when you bought the Super Duke. You got fucked. Car manufactures do the same thing.

@kennymiller8973 10 месяцев назад

It would cost KTM very little to include the software on a production build. Most buyers of premium priced KTM products are not price sensitive. The hassle of making an appointment, leaving the bike at the dealer, hoping it is properly serviced, retrieving the bike is a negative. Then there is a minimum of 2 hour labor charge at my dealer to plug the bike in. Selling a used KTM without the premium software is more of a problem. Buyers use it as a leverage point. We all know thousands spent on accessories does not add thousands to resale. I bought used, no software pack. Would like to have quick shift which I have used, and maybe MSR which I have not. If KTM offered this bike with minimal rider electronic aids as the T7 is sold. And one with all features included, how much cheaper would the base be with none of the computers sensors and software? How well would it sell?

@Ganjora 10 месяцев назад

didn't bother with demo mode. got the tech pack installed/loaded/unlocked before delivery.

@jonathanragle9838 5 месяцев назад

I agree with everything that you said. PR mistake, everything else makes sense. I think it would have been a worse mistake for a Japanese company though. KTM is hard to replace. If you want a KTM you want a KTM.

@ride4adventure 10 месяцев назад

I agree Ian, bad PR decision. When I bought my 2023 890 AR, I knew I wanted all the electronic features and priced it up with the Tech Pack. As far as I was concerned, that was the price of the bike I was basing my purchase decision on.

@auping2565 7 месяцев назад

Hello Ian. How do you think about the all new 2023 790 Adventure. I’m not a prof offroad rider. The 790 kosts €4000 less than the 890(not the R)here in Holland. Eric from Holland. Btw like your reviews! Alway clear👌🏼

@TanatoCartaxo 10 месяцев назад

From KTM's perspective, I believe they save costs in manufacturing the bike and logistics for spare parts by having all 890 using the same parts. This allows them to manufacture a single model (other than R) and although the parts like quickshifter and buttons cost a bit, this is not significant to affect their margins.

@marty4933 10 месяцев назад

I appreciate the arguments for the demo mode, however I find it difficult to move past the fact that these hardware pieces are all ready on the bike and if you don’t reactivate them will KTM suffer a $700 loss? I don’t think so.

@HardPackedADV 10 месяцев назад

Yep, totally agree.

@PovilasPanavas 10 месяцев назад

I think math works out like this: none of those features costs so much to add to the bike. It's always very expensive to add anything, but if it's included in base price, it's much much cheaper for manufactuer. Second point is, that it's easier to make all the bikes the same, and just don't enable the feature. It saves on manufacturing costs and later on adding the hardware. Thus they can calculate how much features need to cost, to offset the fact that hardware (again, keep in mind that the cost of that is much cheaper than installing it afterwards) will be on each bike, and what percentage will buy. Thus, KTM would get a loss only if less people than they expect will enable those.

@ralphwarom2514 10 месяцев назад

Me in Kawasaki : "You guys pay for your bike features after you bought the bike?"

@donaldelder540 10 месяцев назад

@@PovilasPanavasKTM are never taking a loss for anyone. You have already paid for the hardware on the bike, like or not.$700 US for software that runs the hardware is extortion

@PovilasPanavas 10 месяцев назад

@@donaldelder540I don't think you've read my comment. And you haven't paid for hardware. They do math on average how much people will pay for it. They count how much cheaper it is to put all it in the factory. Thus, they expect some people to not pay for it, and some to pay. There's no such thing as already paid for it. Someone else is paying for yours if you haven't paid. Law of averages. P.S. software these days often more expensive than hardware, so we could go about this even from this angle, that hardware is cheap to put in, but software is expensive to make. But software is not hardware, in theory additional copy doesn't cost, but in reality it costs huge amounts to create.

@pinkie87 10 месяцев назад

For me it is negative. It is the first step into the subscriptionhell. They already built in the QS, it is cheaper that way, because they buy/make more QS and there is no difference in the model range. As for the Softwarefeatures, they are already made for that bike and I never heard of any update via a dealer, where a function got better. So you would pay for the work that got into that function like traction control. The pricing of these functions isn't reflecting what they really cost. The markup is way too big and any savings are not pushed to the customer like a cheaper QS. And the demo mode reminds me of those dealers that sell you bad substances. The first one is free(up to 1500km), after that you pay. They get you there, because it is more difficult to let something good go. I really hope, that somewhere someone can do a lilt update themselves, so you can unlock those features, without going to any dealer.

@teamgas 10 месяцев назад

I dont have a massive issue with it, but it counter intuitive to pay extra for those elements which are already on the bike like the quick shifter.

@funkthat 10 месяцев назад

Whether you know it or not, you paid for that quick shifter to be installed. Now considering its already been installed and you paid for it already, charging you more to "unlock" it is ridiculous. You they didnt factor in the labor and material costs to install thousands of quick shifters on bikes with riders who opt out of the tech package. They are highly insulting our intelligence as customers. Vote with your wallet this is an outrage

@makmoto0606 10 месяцев назад

I think this is a great option, being able to demo the features and determine if they’re worth the extra money. People complaining don’t realize that the result will be that either KTM will just bundle it into the bikes MSRP, and then everyone is forced to pay for it, removing consumer choice, or they will move to a model that requires equipment to be retro fitted to make these options available, which will increase the cost of the bikes.

@nemerkha 10 месяцев назад

One of the reasons i went for a Tenere WR instead of the 890R Adv. (amongst many other reasons).

@ralphwarom2514 10 месяцев назад

I bought a bike to get away from my IT job, the idea of thinking about software on my offroad motorcycle is nuts.

@PovilasPanavas 10 месяцев назад

Could you elaborate? 890R doesn't have demo mode, it comes with all those features out of the box enabled permanently.

@nemerkha 10 месяцев назад

@@PovilasPanavas nope. It comes with demo mode UNLESS you paid for the tech pack upon purchase.

@PovilasPanavas 10 месяцев назад

@@nemerkha I checked and seems you're right. I must have mixed up something.

@nemerkha 10 месяцев назад

@@PovilasPanavas paying top dollar bikers shouldn’t be dealing with all these subscription scams. KTMs are brilliant - when they work, when they have good dealership support and when their parts are available.

@CalAdkins 10 месяцев назад

I think it would go a long way for KTM just to include these features to build brand loyalty and value against competitors especially in a motorcycle of this price point which is already really expensive for average folks such as myself to even consider buying. I bought a KTM 390 just because of the great value I think it is however I don't think moving up to an 890 should be double the price.

@nikolaiivankin 7 месяцев назад

That's my way, 390 - 890R. KTM offered me a really nice offer with trade-in, I couldn't stay aside 😀

@jeffhook5116 10 месяцев назад

Not sure if this is case at every KTM dealer, but my local shop mentioned it would cheaper to have the tech installed when you first purchase the bike, rather than later.

@kristofferrydquist8384 10 месяцев назад

I have no problem at all with this. Software is expensive to develop and that is where creative things happen today. My employer sells heavy trucks and we have endless configurations and options depending on customer needs and preferences, all in the software, and they pay for the features the use. Sometimes you need a toggle switch added but that’s it. Also, great way to let users try Cruise Control and see if they like it. From the comments sometimes people wrote “rode for 30 years never needed cruise bla bla” but give them the chance to try is a good thing. I installed heated grips this summer, planning to have them in place long before winter. And already use them in the morning and evening and wondering why I did not put them on earlier. So “Don’t like it, never tried it” maybe KTM actually is able to now turn some customers around. Also, if you don’t want stuff and don’t have the cash, it’s great for resale that the next buyer can go to KTM and post -equip the stuff.

@suj3919 10 месяцев назад

Thanks WOW THAT'S AWESOME 👍✌️👌👌👽

@THX5000 10 месяцев назад

Just charge more for the bike, include everything and be done with it. Stop with the effery.

@maqabyah2 10 месяцев назад

Exactly!

@ehiggins7476 10 месяцев назад

It’s not like they tricked you after you purchased the bike. You know upfront that you can either pay the extra $700 the day you buy the bike and take it home with all the extra features you want, or test the features for 900 miles for free, no hidden cost.

@nonsononessunooko4066 10 месяцев назад

how you guys are ok on paying things that are already on the bikes its beyond my comprension.. "unlock them" bruh.... you really think you already didnt pay the production cost of that feuture when they are already in the bike or are you ok with "unloking them".... at cruise control should be standard for any bike over 10k plus (this is not a personal attack on big rock moto he is just doing is job by reviewing the demo)

@THX5000 10 месяцев назад

@@nonsononessunooko4066 I agree. Man I wish my bike had cruise, just to give my hand and wrist a break sometimes.

@nonsononessunooko4066 10 месяцев назад

@@THX5000 well you can put some "manual" ones but yeah they area bit risky

@BikeParkLane 10 месяцев назад

They should reward loyalty, if you service the bike at the ktm dealer, everytime you get a new feature or credit towards it at least. That would encourage upgrades and in house servicing. It saves a fortune installing the features in the manufacturing process

@waynerobertson511 10 месяцев назад

I think I pretty much agree. It's not like KTM were the first (or only) to software enable features on a motorcycle. My BMW has many of the same sort of things. However, it was a PR mistake to turn off stuff from a motorcycle that people already own. It's human nature. We will feel ripped off when that happens.

@sfade6217 10 месяцев назад

Just bc KTM has always nickle dimed doesnt make this new version okay. I will pay extra for a part added on but the software is there its just a switch. Between that, god awful looking bikes, high price I spend elsewhere. My T7 with custom susp, 35lb weight reduction by stripping down, and no electronics is the ticket!

@nonsononessunooko4066 10 месяцев назад

@ehiggins7476 10 месяцев назад

Well you don’t own the software until you pay for it

@ehiggins7476 10 месяцев назад

@@sfade6217then why even comment on this

@Foremi 10 месяцев назад

BMW has already found out why piracy existed in the first place for this reason as well. If I pay msrp for a bike I own it. That includes using the hardware that was included at that base msrp. I’m not stealing anything from ktm by using the hardware I paid for and I refuse to see this any other way.

@petmaxnat 10 месяцев назад

My dealer in the UK included the full tech pack in the price of the bike. £11499.00 on the road.

@davegoldspink5354 10 месяцев назад

Ok great video thanks for sharing. As far as a subscription it would have been a ripoff but as you explained it I think it’s a good idea it lets you see what is on offer and if you don’t want the feature you don’t have to pay for something you’re not going to use. Have got so many things these days that have extra features/options that I’ve never used even my Ute I had for 9 years had options that I never ever bothered with so again this is a great idea and really is no different from going to a bike store when you want to upgrade or buy accessories or parts.

@bulentberksan9888 10 месяцев назад

They make fools of us . I hate KTM . Never think to buy

@jamesschneider3828 10 месяцев назад

It's like any software, you have to pay for it. Like Adobe Photoshop, you used to buy a disk to install the program but to get the latest upgrades you now have to rent the programs with no option to even run the basics unless you want it.

@marcberland5951 10 месяцев назад

1. They can (technically) and will some time in the future try out subscriptions, like heated grips for 5$/month during winter months- because they can 2. What happens when you sell the bike? Will it keep the features? Do YOU buy them? Does the seller get them as part if the bike? Does he have to re-buy them again? 3. In some parts its wasting hardware, only because it is cheaper for them to sell a 1-version-fits-all, instead of having to produce bikes as ordered by the customer. As everyone else says: just sell put it in there for everyone and add 60(?)% of the tech-pack price to the base price. Number would be as high as the percentage buying the tech-pack.

@codyoldford1592 10 месяцев назад

I bought one with the tech pack not a big deal features are worth it.

@chickenmanicmrt1705 10 месяцев назад

tesla had a great thing about this, a second hand owner got the car serviced, the techs found he didnt have the license installed for the extra range battery so they reset his system and forced the limit to a normal range battery, they did not change the battery in any way but he had to pay another grand to unlock the feature again. Demo modes are very very slippery and key thing you are held at ransom because if you dont buy it you dont get the full bike and the resell value is lower

@stevezatrine7305 10 месяцев назад

If we as consumers want to put an end to KTM's demo mode practice. It would be pretty simple. When The customers negotiate a purchase price for the new bikes at the dealerships they make an offer their comfortable with and say that that offer must include the tech pack. If the dealership says no then they should walk out the door. Then there would be no more demo mode and you can have the bike with the features you want at the price you want which is how it always should be.

@flangmasterj 3 месяца назад

Here's a question. There's an 890 Duke R for sale locally that was purchased from an insurance company that got the bike from a dealership that flooded. So the bike's software was never unlocked by KTM. Does anyone know the process to get this sodtware unlocked or if there's a workaround?

@matthewjones545 10 месяцев назад

I can see what they are going for. Wanting to get price down for people who only might want one or two of the options (ex: some one who wants it for just the road because of engine and ergonomics not being driven off because of the price of all the off-road goodies), and not having to send enough bikes to cover the varying combinations different riders would want. Think it would have not been viewed so negative if one paid for what they wanted at purchase and wasn’t something being “taken away” - not the best marketing. BTW, couldn’t make out the brand of bash plate you ended up with, am curious about what influenced your decision on which one to buy.

@simenstryckers8623 10 месяцев назад

Another option for ktm would have been to offer their demo mode only to customers that ask for it at the dealer and maybe even have those customers pay an extremely small amount of money. The final result is the same but it may feel less insulting to certain people. To me personally, the current demo mode system is fine as long as the prices for a bike with and without are what you would expect for the features.

@Rod990ktm 5 месяцев назад

The advantage of demo mode is to try something you may consider not useful or of you have doubts about using it; it lets you try it. Also it’s good because if you need it in the future, after buying the bike you can get it very easily for a fee

@richardwarsinske7064 10 месяцев назад

Try it before you buy it sounds good to me. Allows you to evaluate how well each feature works and if it's something you'll actually use enough to justify the extra cost. As long as they don't charge more than each features retail or negotiated price to activate them (with the exception of cruise control) I'm fine with the Demo mode.

@scottwalker8949 10 месяцев назад

I bought a 890R a month ago , and my dealer did not say a word about the tech pack until I brought it up . I think KTM should just raise the price and include the tech pack

@thisisatestoftheemer 10 месяцев назад

Weirdly, I just picked up a 23 SuperDuke and it didn't have demo mode enabled. The dealer didn't even mention or try to sell me the tech pack!

@Xlac 10 месяцев назад

20 years ago manufacturers advertised all the amazing features installed in their motorcycles. You went to the dealer and purchased that motorcycle with all the amazing features. And that was it.

@scottsmith1897 10 месяцев назад

Great video and it does suck that you have to pay for things on the bike....... would rather just have it included. Hell we upgrade these bikes anyway.

@dnwaterh 10 месяцев назад

Bought this bike a week ago and so far don't like the quick shifter. It's the first time I have used one, so maybe it grows on you or I just need to learn how to use it better, but I think I shift more smoothly without it. Not sure I want the rally mode. I won't be riding in sand or more challenging off road. So, for me, a la carte options are good.