The Truth about "Narcissistic Abuse Syndrome" | "Narcisstic Victim Syndrome" 

You also can't explain how an orgasme is experienced to anyone who never had one. And they will tell you that it is just another sensation or experience, nothing more.

I’m trying to convince my best friend he has it and I think it’s manifesting in physical pain

This is the problem I have with psychologists, therapists and especially the DSM. The two things I suffer from the most are complex PTSD caused by attachment Trauma from the very sick narcissistic dark Triad father. I've suffered my whole life because doctors couldn't figure it out, so I had to write a book which I will be publishing soon. The DSM doesn't even have complex PTSD listed, and in my opinion the DSM is dysfunctional because it relies as this doctor says on science when all you really need to do is listen to patients. We can tell you perfectly.

Keeping notes on narcissists is helpful for me. I’ve never learned to analyze reality, it’s a depressing fog of anxiety, lies and deceit. Making friends is tough. You never learned how to do that. A huge piece of human development is gone. I’m sure I have a personality disorder so I keep things business like and it takes great thought to try to go forward from that. It’s not natural, and I think people recognize that. As a youngster, I was a very attractive tall intelligent lady. That helped a lot. Personality is overlooked. But I have always made the wrong decisions in relationships, and have no idea what a good relationship feels like. It’s not good. It’s an extremely lonely life. But there are so many people just like me, and in worse situations. That’s important to remember. It would be nice if someone could give me a set of tools. I need child development books, that beginner level, how to make friends, but for adults who are victims of abuse. If I could learn snd practice what I didn’t as a kid, now as an adult, my life would move forward. I don’t need a diagnosis, sympathy, or fluffy thoughts. I need a tool bag. Like, how to make friends and influence people. But more basic, like start at age 2, and directed towards people like me. 🤷🏻‍♀️

@@CO2isfake Sounds a lot like my own thoughts! After my 2nd cognitive behaviour therapy here in Germany in 2015 I wasn´t any wiser than before tbh. The guy was surely nice and the reglar appointments gave me a little bit stability, and I could pour my heart out while practicing to reflect my traumatic experiences from childhood to adulthood in my famly of origin. The therapist tried to support and encourage me by stating that I´m very reflective and I should just try out the ideas I came up with. As nice as this felt, we couldn´t bring much new insight or practical advise into the equation, so basically another missed opportunity. It surely requires a lot of own reflection and transfer work to put the right strategies together to fit someone´s individual experiences, but it feels as if I´ve gained a whole load of elementary understanding within the past months since I started to practically binge-watch Doc´s videos. 😂😂🤗🤗💖💖

It's very obvious this video maker doesn't have the slightest clue.

@@LiveFaustDieJung - Because it is far and few between that will ever get help or even admit they have a problem. They don't want to change and see no need.

@BillG Dontjabme I've always thought he's cluster b too. There's something that I don't buy at all. However, his information is useful. What really bumped me was his critic on Teal Swan. He can't stand spirituality, which I find really weird, he finds spirituality pathetic. Why? Are there any lose wires without a connection to the source?

For me just walking away is pretty much impossible my narcissist s are virtually all of my relatives and especially my own mother and I didn't realize that they are psychopaths until in my late 40s and that was several years ago. My life has been totally destroyed consequently so has my future.

@@russellm7530 How does is this confession related to Doctor Grande so-well-treated cluster b personality? Just Kidding! Find therapy, I abandoned my crazy family, I drew boundaries, it took me years, it was like being reborn but I gotta say that's better to be able to "know" the whole universe instead of just a pair of crazy relatives. I would leave them again, no matter the pain of loneliness and the dark streets. I will rather be dead than living their delusion.

Renate DeBruyn good for you!

I’m only 24 and I have a similar story.. the fact that you’re 70 and still saying your happiness was taken away really hurts . The hurt must be ever lasting . It’s a harsh truth that’s so depressing

Are psychiatrists just for medications?

My mother is a dangerous narcissist too. In fact last November I was in a major scooter accident which landed me in ICU and in a coma and basically on my deathbed for nearly 3 weeks. I was impatient in the hospital for right around 3 months total. In this scooter accident I was in I suffered major brain and heart injuries. After I was released from the hospital, I was sent to stay at my parents house for further care and I stayed there for a little over a month. Even though I was not released by my physician to live on my own, I still made the choice too stay in my own home by myself, rather than deal with one more day of the way my mother was treating me. She repeatedly told me that if I didn't like it I could go home, so home is exactly where I went after hearing that for the very last time. She also went as far as degrading me, her own daughter, directly in front, as well as signaling too not only my daughter (who was also staying there because she couldn't stay by herself) but also degraded me and treated me like shit in front of my nephew. Numerous times she would tell me to my face that I was a supporter of a racist, whom was a domestic terrorist and suffered mental illness. No joke! She repeated that statement to me multiple times and directly in front of my daughter and my nephew. By the way, I am the only one in my family who is the mother of a mixed child. My daughter is half African-American. Yet, I'm the supporter of a racist? She said this to me multiple times just for calling out lies when I heard them being said over the televised news media she had playing all day everyday, on her big screen and over the house surround sound. I have repeated to her multiple times and she is fully aware that I am not even a registered voter and it never have been. Although, I have always called lies out when I heard them.... That will not change with me at all, ever! What's right is right and stays. What's wrong is wrong and must go! Also, on the day of my incident when my mother and family was contacted, my mother was asked lots of questions by an officer. Everything that he had asked my mother is in the police report. My mother's answers are all listed in this report too and always will be. In this police report it lists in the officers statement, regarding when he was talking to my mother, my mother just blatantly told him out of nowhere that I suffered a mental illness and because of my mental illness we were not close in our relationship. Well because of the abuse my mother put me through for so many years, I started seeing a therapist voluntarily. I was actually referred to this counselor/therapist through a psychologist who performed a full mental evaluation of me. I made an appointment with this therapist because my mother told me constantly that I was mentally ill and I needed to get help. So I finally did just for my own peace of mind because I started getting a little concerned hearing her say that to me all the time. Well my test results came back that I was not mentally ill in any way, shape or form. In fact the results suggested that I was more advanced in my memory and cognitive thinking over the average person. Because of this my counselor distinguished almost immediately where the problem was and that problem was not me it was my mother and the way my mother treated me. At this point the psychologist referred me to a therapist/family counselor whom I could confide in and open up about everything that is bothering me, what has caused it, all that are involved and how to resolute. My counselor is absolutely wonderful, I have been seeing him for years now. I tried to get my mother to come into a couple sessions with me just to show her that counseling isn't bad and that maybe we could all benefit from it. However, she immediately declined and claimed that she was not a problem. She learned who my counselor was and contacted him directly. What my mother proceeded to talk to him about my counselor did not like what he was hearing because he already knew the truth regarding what she was trying to discuss with him. He knew that what she was saying was a blatant lie. He wound up ending the conversation by telling her he had his next appointment just show up. About 5 minutes later she called his number back again and left him a long voicemail, where, AGAIN, she blatantly lies in the voicemail. She was lying in the message by telling my counselor a story of something I was doing last week at a certain time. My councilor then abruptly stopped the message playing and looked at me and said "I don't like your mother. I'm sorry for you but, I'm not sorry because I don't like her". He continued on and said "we both know where you were at last week at that time, when she claims you were doing something completely else in that message she left. You were in your session with me at that very time she claimed you were doing something else in her voicemail message. Your mother is a liar and I'm sorry anybody has to go through that especially by their own parents, he says to me. I agreed with him 100%. He absolutely could not believe the abuse my mother was putting me through when she signed an agreement that she would give me a calm and peaceful environment in order to continue healing. It was far from a calm and peaceful environment!

I am glad you sought out the help you needed. It’s never too late to seek help.

When I was going through my divorce with my psychopathic ex, there were 4 attempts to mentally institutionalize me. I was never diagnosed with anything other than CPTSD. It was horrible. Nobody should have their spirit broken and then be shipped off to an institution. It's exactly what the abusers want. Fighting back took every bit of my resources (emotionally and financially). But had I been hospitalized, I think I would have been ruined. I'm sorry you had to go through that. I can't even imagine what that would have been like.

victoria zabaras And vice versa. A lot of abusive women get away with it bc society always paints abusers as male. I was abused by a narcissistic woman, they're something else.

Thats so sad, kinda know what its like, hope your doing better

The system feeds the system. And think of the god complex doctors have. Why wouldn’t a narcissist want to become a doctor who could officially deem people more crazy then them. So to them he may have seemed normal. It’s not an excuse but as someone who was affected by it as well, I know trying to understand the disregulated behavior can give us piece of mind

I feel for you, people must know how terrible it was for you, i hope you'r a bit better now? Ps, lisa A ROmano (a live coach) i watch her video' s realy, she is the best. Love💗🤍💙from Holland EU. Sorry, i see you are already cures from the abuse. I just wanted to say, these hospitals....it only made me feel worse.

They use money as their POWER. 😢💯

A good therapist could and should be able to do both. If I am counseling you about your narcissist husband, I may have to use a diagnosis for PTSD or depression for insurance. The truth is, most victims of narcissists DO have a “real” diagnosis. We do what we have to do to get insurance approved so you will not need to pay a “life coach” $350 an hour to treat you when they are likely to harm more than help.

@@franciehartsog-slaughter6803 why do you think a life coach is likely to cause harm more than help? That has been far from my experience. A licensed professional does not equal infallible. It does not equal ever-capable. Licensed professionals have badly failed several people I know and many more I’ve worked with.

@@Julibee81 I agree. They sadly do not understand yet, and thank God for the people who do. It's a spiritual and psychic issue as much as a psychological, and they just aren't able to comprehend it.

i AGREE!!!

YES! Thank you for bringing this up! We need a better discussion on this. Dr. Grande, would be really helpful to do a video on this and where this is legally in the US and UK. Perhaps a series with Richard Grannon might be in order?

I wait with bated breath to see if Dr Grande addresses this. I understand it's not good to stigmatise people. Maybe the way round it would be to educate people about the behaviours (in schools from 14/15) so people can recognise emotional manipulation, and be aware people with these traits do exist but without throwing the narcissist label at everyone.

I dont know about now but people could sue for future faking in South Korea.

On the subject of Coercive Control, the UK is light years ahead of the US. But let's face it, most executives (CEO's & government heads) have strong coercive control, albeit malignant narcissistic component in the way they conduct business. It is up to an intelligent, self-aware and conscientious population to stop idolizing such traits.

@@Kokiotv sounds good to me

Miss E , It is thoughtful of you to take the time to so well articulate your experience. Many prayers & God be with you. 🙏 Wishing you a New Day with many blessings. 🌤️

@@colleentam6446 Thank you!

Miss E , Just saw the screen notification of your msg late this afternoon ! You are more than welcome. I hope you are doing well in recovery. It is a very difficult road. They are consummate masters of deceit. 🙏

Ditto experience. And ditto on your perceptions. ♥️

@Tracy Lehane ... way to go on making your reply 'personal', sarcastic, lacking in compassion and a real slap in the face. Totally inappropriate response. I hope to God you're never a therapist.

When you chabge to a life coach you stop being a patient and start being a customer. Start thinking what that means in the field of mental health. Yea, not great. If your therapist doesnt believe you, go to a different one.

@@derstoffausdemderjoghurtis wow. What a solution. Or maybe the Healthcare system needs to do better? No? It's all on the victim. Gotchya!

You might want to look into Cptsd, it's what helped me.

@@saiikik2727 thank-you. I already know about it, I do have c-ptsd. I never would have learned about it outside of online narcissism information though due to the fact that most therapists, at least where i live know nothing about it. Because it's not in the DSM.

It is real but some therapists are insecure until it’s officially in the dsm- so don’t worry it IS real- the specific abuse that narcs inflict also causes specific symptoms in the victims

The DSM is flawed as all things are. Clinicians can be wrong just like anyone else can be wrong because were all human at the end of the day. It is just a huge let down when you want help because you know something is wrong but can’t get it. The DSM is a work in progress so we can only hope it gets better as understanding gets better.

EXACTLY!! I have and had PTSD prior to being in a relationship with one who is narcissistic, and anyone who down plays the effect of the trauma it imposes on our emotional health is definitely NOT helpful. I also dgaf what it is called, but I know abuse especially emotional abuse has effects that is long lasting and hard to recover from, so I will agree it can be summed as Narcissistic Abuse Syndrome.

You're so right on. It's the ultimate mind-fuck. And it's not rational. So it's hard to explain it to a rational person because it's absolutely crazy.

Sam Sam I honestly don't think so. A lot of the abuse is so subtle that someone who hasn't been through it looks at you like you're the one blowing things out of proportion. Trust me, there's a lot of nuance to the abuse that the casual observer is just not going to notice.

Fu k.

Covertly injecting shame and guilt, couldn’t have said it any better, slowly and insidiously this woman i thought was my lover and best friend turned me into her, paranoid ashamed and insecure, sex is their favorite weapon, give you everything you ever imagined in the beginning then slowly take it all away to nothing and hint that they’re giving it to others but never admitting it, gaslighting you about it as well, I finally discovered the horrible truth she was cheating the whole entire time and coming home smiling kissing me on the lips and telling me she loved me, sick twisted people

@@moodycrab77 I think you you do have to go through it to understand. My son was beaten mercilessly and the verbal and psychological abuse was horrendous. My girls got some too. My heart is broken. He screws around with my head too but hurting my kids is much worse. I think he's intent on breaking my relationships with my kids somehow, I don't know. You really do have to have been there.

So you mean to tell me because of narcisstic abuse I’m never going to be the same again. How do I not kill my self ?

No shit that's so true

I absolutely agree except I would add that it is on a whole new level like brainwashing 100000.0

Yes.🌷

👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽 😔

👏👏👏

What a point - well said

One case study: My Narcissistic Abuse Syndrome began early with my mother, who set the stage. I became a narcissist magnet. An earlier diagnosis could have prevented much suffering.

❤️

While you’re right, but that does raise another question, being whether or not they would have a better view on it or whether or not they would end up too biased to make a proper call on definitions as such. As the good doctor mentioned, Narcissistic Abuse Syndrome in some stories sounds an awful lot like a version of PTSD. Which is an awful thing to have, but there are (admittedly not always great) treatment plans for that available (some of which sound veeeery similar to how “experts” advice you treating NAS, funnily enough).

To see his car and i become depreseed and anger

@@valentinavelkova3480 I understand 😞 I’m finally nearly healed .. after nearly six years. Helps that our son is now grown and I have zero interaction with the Narc.

they now have a therapy called EMDR to treat this type of PTSD.

Dont seek help in youtube videos. Get a therapist and if he doesnt believe you change the therapist.

@Tracy Lehane tracy lehane, you understand shit about trauma. Shouldnt really speak on the subject cause all you do is hurting another person.

NAS is REAL!!! AMEN to everything you said!!! I'll be educating the world soon about this. WE NEED TO STAND TOGETHER TO STOP THIS TYPE OF ABUSE!

Jill, everything you said is absolutely right!!! Don't listen to ignorant people.

Instead of the so-called coaches I would suggest to check videos from experienced psychologists in this topic such as Dr. Ramani Durvasula. Amazing professional.

I hear you, your experience is real, and I understand your pain and desperation. You are not crazy, you have been abused. Personally I have excepted that what I have suffered , and what I suspect will be the life long effects of that abuse will never be understood, but I understand and hear you. And you are still hear, as I am, and who carried us through we did, and there’s no other person more capable or more reliable of continuing to carry us through than us alone. Thank god I had me , right? Be kind and easy with yourself You are an amazing resourceful and strong human being, And probably, without even knowing you, a most beautiful soul as well. Remember that each day You will survive Because you have you. Peace x

6 counselors. All a waste of time. They're there to listen, ask questions they read from a book and collect from an insurance company. The only one who ever impressed me was Jordan Peterson.

Thank you.

GRACIAS !!!!! Ellaina 🌈🥀❤

Ellaina : YOU KNOW THOUSEND TIMES MORE about this topic than this man. Me too but cannot articulate yet that well ( due to the fact that I suffer tremendous damage after 5 years of N.Abuse )

Dude leave borderline out of it. They are rarely abusive. They get with abusive people, then react extremely to any hint of abuse. Legit abuse. Borderline is another way of saying CPTSD and that's very proven. They never intend to harm. They usually are victims of narcs, actually. I'm sick of the stigma around us and I'm sick of people thinking we are bad intentioned people. You think you've met an ill-intentioned borderline? You've probably met a narc wearing that mask, trying to appeal to you as the borderline is a sick child and most codependents (formed from narc abuse usually) look to care for sick children. The dynamics are complicated to say the least and the gaslighting from dismissive (narcissistic) abusers make it impossible to discern. Clarity is never there for the bpd as she is always with an npd. That's how it works. You probably have bpd and don't even know it. You're not a monster. This is simple self-projection. Creds: studying psychology (AS in it now), diagnosed borderline and codependency, survived many narc exes, survived two narc parents. I know what I'm talking about. Also, massive amounts of research.

@@carnivoroussarah BPD and NPD, as well as BPD and ASPD frequently co-occur within the same individual. Yes, a lot of progress has been made over the past 20-30 years to destigmatize BPD, colloquially equate it more or less with "C-PTSD", and demonstrate that there IS effective psychotherapy to treat and cure (Yes, Cure) it. I would like to see the same happen with other Cluster B PDs. To which, the Facebook / Instagram cottage industry of life coaches pandering to self-proclaimed Victims of Narcissists is a potent obstacle. If we want to make a real difference on this front and for all these people, we need to get to the Root of it and strive to be educated regarding the accessibility and administration of the various effective treatments out there for NPD *itself*. Choosing to be a part of the "send all the lepers to Molokai to die" social media chorus strikes me as, well, not-so-subtly barbaric. Doesn't mean you have to allow toxic people into your intimate life. Doesn't mean you can't seek out your own therapy.

I completely agree that this NAS is a form of C-PTSD (not a clinician or anything). Have you ever heard of HSP? Highly Sensitive Person Basically one of the key traits to understanding the HSP is differential susceptibility , meaning that because of the combination of the depth of processing, emotional reactivity and noticing the subtleties, HSPs experience everything to a higher, more intensive degree (certain parts of HSP brains literally flare up way more than nonHSPs on fMRI brain imaging), let's say the reward centre of our brain, or amygdala which can trigger a freeze/flight/fight response just because of flashbacks of an relatable experience to some trauma. And this differential susceptibility basically means that children with poor childhood that were HSP end up depressed and anxious in adulthood. Narcissistic Abuse Syndrome - in my opinion narcissistic abuse is really bad for HSPs, because it doesn't let HSPs to develop a sense of worthiness, because HSPs being so reactive and susceptible to small stimuli, tend to dedicate so much energy, alertness and thought in general to making sure the abuser won't hurt us, by making THEM happy and otherwise trying not to get any attention that might end up in punishment) On the other hand, differential susceptibility suggests, that HSP children with good childhood, who were loved by their parents and had their needs met (imagine being loved by your parent xdd one can dream) ended up just as good, if NOT BETTER than the nonHSPs in terms of being content with life and having success, just because they value themselves, which we were never allowed to learn, while living with someone who kills our self esteem every moment they get, just to make sure that can keep controlling us.. You can find more on HSP in the books of Elaine Aaron, or in her youtube research vidoes.

Just because you’ve experienced something doesn’t make you eligible or qualified to spout nonsense. You ever play Skyrim and the Jarl asked you to go to the watchtower to slay the dragon? You are technically experienced you ran away from the dragon in the beginning so now you can fight it and talk about it with some authority. 😂

Normal doctors prove themselves incompetent and egotistical all the time. Cultures have dealt with psychopaths forever. I agree there are people without a degree that can offer great advice and treatment in addition to traditional therapy. I've met some pretty dumb people with degrees in all fields.

most psychology is bs

@@GiganFTW Now that totally made sense 👌👏

I agree with you 100%. See my comments above...

I was finally just diagnosed with PTSD by a veteran therapist who is trauma informed and very familiar with psychological abuse. It took 18 years of working with 6 different therapists to finally find one who understands and to get a diagnosis that works. Having a PTSD diagnosis is now opening up support options that didn’t exist before, and it makes health care providers and insurance companies take me seriously.

That's why I'm being treated for PTSD right now

Amen

Not to mention the high of the love-bombing, that keeps you going back, many times several discards.

I agree, narcissistic abuse is a real thing. However, I do think abusers are over labeled as narcissists...not all abusers have NPD.

@@Werewolf0216 yes, narcissism is on a spectrum, most “narcissists” would not qualify for a diagnosis of NPD.

@@amandastein6247 then I would say they aren’t narcissists. For example, autism and bipolar disorder are conditions on a spectrum and no matter where you are on the spectrum you still meet the criteria of the diagnosis. If a person has a few narcissistic traits but doesn’t qualify for the diagnosis, you can’t label them as a narcissist.

Soul removal syndrome

Don't record anyone without their permission. It's against FEDERAL LAW and can backfire on you BIG TIME. I realize why you did it but I don't think you understand the substantial consequences you can face both monetary and criminal if you do. I'm a lawyer and a survivor of being with a covert narc for 50 (yes fifty) years.

Yep, I've been there . . . with a narcissistic sister, who it turns out, was and is very jealous of me.

@@srolesen don't do that. Victim blaiming.

​@@srolesen bro what the fuck is wrong with you? They were SUFFERING and recorded their sister to know if her impressions were true. It's their own conversations with their own sister. They have every right to do that. They're the only one listening to these records. That's not being a covert narc at all. Trust me, i know a lot about that. I lived with my dad who have npd for my whole childhood. I have huge trauma from it that cause me to develop several mental illnesses. You clearly don't know what's a narcissist and you're victim blaiming.

@@srolesen tell me how it's damaging to record their OWN conversation with their OWN sister and to be the only one listening to it?Tell me how they're in the wrong for trying to know if their impressions were true? You don't have any right to call someone a covert narc for no reason. They're clearly a victim in this situation, their sister was gaslighting them.

Nice to see someone who understands the industry of healthcare . I hear you

YESSS! 💯 We know our TRUTH! and we are holding on to that no matter what… We got this! We are strong survivors! 😇💪♥️

I felt a huge relief from your comment. I suddenly felt validated and sane! Thank you and I’m rooting for you! 😇🙏♥️💪💯

I never knew this abuse from my narcissist existed either...until it happened n still happens to me...that's when I started to remember her Similar behaviors over the years, that I missed as a red flag...

Thank You for your brave Share

Completely agree with you. The sadistic cat and mouse game they play is deliberately cruel because that is what pleases them and makes them feel good

Well done Brent. Go for it. He's probably one of the narcisists himself and he set up this whole channel to cover his tracks.

@@dominicberry5577 agree because I felt a bit gaslighted by this.

Seriously. I uh "won" (lol) the genetic lottery and got born to not one, but *two* narcissists. One vulnerable (my bio mother) and one grandiose (my bio father). All I've ever been diagnosed with is MDD. Meds don't help, shrinks don't fucking understand, so why would I keep trying the same thing if I already know it doesn't work? And I'm literally still seeing shrinks. Like my ACE score is NINE. I've been so depressed my whole life that I have had a neuropsychologist tell me that my depression was overreported because I'd be dead if I were *actually* that depressed.

@Psybabe , it’s not in the Bible yet but it will be and it my not eventually be called NAS but an equivalent with be agreed upon. Just wait it’s coming 🙏

@Psybabe 👍👍👍🙏

it is very real. Since the symptoms of npd especially towards malignant end are very specific the abuse to the victims also results in coinciding specific symptoms

Live it and you will know and believe it. Narcissistic abuse is dangerous to ones health and well being. They are the ones causing chaos in the world.

@crucibelle , So since you are claiming it’s ptsd that people are experiencing you must be a licenced professional? Or else how do you come to this diagnosis, for the sufferers of narcissistic abuse? We are still in the early stages of this narcissistic abuse phenomenon so let’s wait and see where it’s goes before we start saying it doesn’t exist! Have you been narcissistically abused too? Or are you just hoping on the academically trained band wagon of current science regarding narcissistic abuse.. we are all researching for a better understanding and a future where we can help people who have been through hell so I respect your opinion regarding the matter and wish you all the best 🙏

He is fully aware that narcissistic abuse is real and damaging. He just makes clear that there is no disorder or sydrom named like that and that claiming otherwise is in fact pseudoscientific.

Calling it nonexistent was a bit cold

🤣sad but true, I have to laugh!! Well said ha

@@srolesen What better council did you get?

Interview the counselor regarding their attitude about and experience with narcissistic abuse before beginning sessions.

You can't even form a coherent sentence. I'm thankful you're not my therapist.

​​​@@WildintheWestbc well, that's the perfect example of today's "therapist." They blatantly admit that they know nothing about it. Every "therapist" nearby is a 20 something social worker where I live. All 6 "therapists" I've been to were a complete waste. I could not believe how little they contributed and I consider myself pretty well-versed in Psychology. NOTHING useful came of any of the sessions. They had nothing to add and all f'd off during the session, completely clueless that they were supposed to be listening. I'd rather stick to RU-vid Jordan Peterson videos. At least he's a genius and shows it and doesn't sound like a robot who is glued to the DSM like some cult manual.

thank you

You got trapped like the many others in this comment section. Narcissistic abuse and its concequences are real and if you have seen any other video of Dr. Grande you know that he will not dispute that fact. In fact he has done many videos on the topic of what effects narcissistic abuse can have. In this video he just clarifies for a more scholarly audience that there hant been (yet) conceptualized a disorder or syndrom.

Psybabe you are contradicting my point. I have experienced the playbook and others have as well. These behaviors are repeated and consistent among the disordered. There has to be a name for this group of behaviors. Then you have groups of people exposed to those same behaviors and they adapt the same or similar behaviors in response to them. What is that?

@Psybabe hahaha did you not see that dr.grande himself has videos on the sociopathic stare?

Hang in there! I understand what you're going through.

@@misse7154 I meant crazy, because someone was debating me and telling me that NPD was a mental illness and I told them, No it is not, its not even in the DSM. They were fighting me tooth and nail. I deal with a few people with Narcissism. So, I've been studying but I don't want to ever get it wrong, forget my humanity or be misleading.

@Atties Mom Did you watch the video? So which cluster is NVS in!? LOL!

@@TheLoveweaver I'm a lay person too who has unfortunately had to learn a lot about this to understand what happened to me. I am still learning. I think it's important to never stop.

@Atties Mom exactly, I'm just being dismissive and making fun of those who have been abused. (eyes rolled....)

The sad thing is that many narcissists and Cluster B abusers WANT their victims to be diagnosed as bipolar. The gaslighting both of the victim, as well as close family and friends, through a carefully coordinated campaign, can put the victim in the perfect spot for such a label. This happened to me, and the fact that my sister was diagnosed as being bi-polar around the time the abuse started, created all the more credibility for my abuser. I would be interested to hear Dr. Grande and other clinicians' observations on this, but this seems to be a choice "mental illness" for abusers.

@@misse7154 exact same thing has happened to me

@@patriciak4865 I'm sorry to hear. I have a feeling it's probably more common than we think. It would be interesting to hear Dr. Grande's experience on Cluster B's psychiatric projections as a means of deflection.

Exactly. Thanks for sharing. I also have been deeply disappointed at psychiatrists. Utterly clueless in their white jackets. She immeadiatly concluded all my issues was due to drug use before looking into the description of my childhood which was filled with abuse. It was her aha moment that all my mental health issues must be due to psychedelics which, funny enough psychedelic mushrooms have helped me more with this than ANYTHING.

Same!!

Outline the difference pls

My father is extremely narcissistic and yeah I always thought the perfect word to describe him would be 'terrorist' or 'monster'. How many times did this b*stard break the heart of my mother by screaming at her for nothing. My mother does everything for him and he doesnt know the value of ANYTHING. Living in Delusions everyday, every single day thats how sick he is. I really feel sorry for women who live with such disgusting people and then suffer severe brain damage or mental illness. People in general should take more care of themselves, you dont have to be in a relationship. When there are not the right people dont rush into relationships thats one of the worst things you can do.

Uhhhh... I didnt hear him discount anything. He offers cautions and suggests that these things may move into clinical use if enough research supports it. Watch your "all or nothing" distortions...

@victoria zabaras I don't see how I was talking to you. Were you concerned that it was you that was using an "all or nothing" logical fallacy? I didnt read that. Maybe logic is unimportant?

@victoria zabaras You don't know what anyone on here has and has not gone through. You can know about yourself, and yourself only.

Awkward Autistic well the whole start of the DSM was actually a bunch of people with the same symptoms being classified by a relatively new science of psychology-that has a great amount of power over people’s lives, considering the DSM is revised often on political views, and started out with many diagnoses that were changed based on the opinion, political opinion, and not science. The fact that many people have been experiencing the symptoms doesn’t make it a diagnosis, but it also doesn’t negate the negative affect or symptoms of abuse. The other issue is that perhaps the term empath is overused or not even real; but that doesn’t discount the suffering or the mental damage people endure through serious narcissism. It is extremely debilitating; especially to children. And in some ways it doesn’t matter if they are or are not termed anything- it’s that they experienced abuse so dramatic they need to heal; and whether or not they have narcissism is irrelevant bc everyone has some narcissism. However the fact that people are trying to excise the pain and torture; very real torture they experienced often through family or marriages-doesn’t mean they are narcissists at all. It doesn’t mean a child won’t turn into one; or someone doesn’t have injuries that are similar, but whatever the dynamics are; the effort to heal should not be laughed at. People are insightful enough to know there is a problem; they naturally organize the strategies and components of abuse vs abuser dynamics. But I can say; if you haven’t had it articulated to you; through a real experience-it is hard to understand what is happening, bc the abuse is so psychological and so pathological. They don’t know what they are doing-but that’s how every field of study starts out. Just because someone officially hasn’t recognized something, does not mean it isn’t real or a problem. This is unrelated; but to illustrate my point, doctors used to perform surgeries on infants with no painkillers or anesthesia. Up to the 1940’s. They believed that babies didn’t feel pain. This is a fact. So the medical or psychological community isn’t perfect, and they don’t know everything. They do however; feel very confident when playing with your brain chemistry, or your personality. As long as they are qualified...

Agree so believe cptsd is what survivors of narcissistic abuse . Complex traumatic stress disorder

A cyberpunk? I’m intrigued… can you elaborate?

i’m either dumb af or this comment makes no sense

While qualified clinicians may sometimes write articles on Psychology Today, it is not considered reputable or trustworthy on its own. Furthermore, his "defense" of the jury was him stating that the jury made their ruling based on the fact that the state provided completely insufficient evidence. That's what the jury was ruling on-- the *evidence*. You are not supposed to seriously speculate as a juror. That is NOT doing your job, and the jurors know this going into the trial. If you do anything else, you will get in trouble. All this proves is that Dr. Grande understands how the legal system works. Not really a savage own of him :/ Also he's not saying this disorder isn't real, but that many in the community around it are peddaling serious misinformation, and that's a huge problem. Do you disagree? Your use of the term "bedside manner" is also seriously off the mark. Lastly, channels who dramatize the "evilness" of cluster B patients for clicks--most of who have lived through horrific childhoods and adulthoods with extremely high ACE scores--are pretty evil in their own way. As someone who has been victim to a lifetime of severe narcissistic abuse, I don't ask you to overlook or blindly forgive those who have hurt you. But pop psychology is pushing a narrative that demonizes people who for the most part became the way they are because of severe trauma of their own. It is encouraging stigma and anger instead of self-preservation and quiet encouragement for these people to get help. A lot of the psychologists really profiting from this culture pedal ideas that are seriously untrue--that these people are incapable of empathy (the truth is more akin to selective empathy that can be expanded upon), and that these people are irredeemable monsters. Also not true. There is research showing that none of this is at all true. Hell, just look at the entire rest of the developed world that focuses on rehabilitation instead of punitive measures for criminals. They succeed because they're working in fact and empathy. Maybe we should try that. I think you'll find that most people aren't born evil.

I also am not really seeing this ego you speak of. I've see Dr. Granda considering and conceding to different ideas when they have some legitimate basis.

I like Dr. Les Carter

@@song8777 he's awesome

havest2 AMEN!

Exactly

victoria zabaras I agree. I've seen the "Awkward Autistic" just spamming the comment section invalidating whatever others are saying. Pretty obvious that it's just another narc doing what narcs do.

I agree - this whole article is weighed far too much on science missing out huge parts of the overall picture. It seems to be all about fitting it in to boxes. I respect Dr Grande for much of his insights but this clinical approach adds to the pain at times.

He is fully aware that narcissistic abuse is real and damaging. He just makes clear that there is no disorder or sydrom named like that and that claiming otherwise is in fact pseudoscientific.

He has already done many such videos. Watch those instead of leaving a hate comment, that would be more productive.

@@derstoffausdemderjoghurtis what he has is NAS. Put you constantly in a negative, criticism mood.

Dr. Grande is an academic. Without science, why have the field of medicine.

@@derstoffausdemderjoghurtis Save your sympathy for PTSD sufferers. Todd is a Narcissist himSELF.

@@00pisani49 Without experience as a sufferer, science is just that. Science.

Thank you!

Read my mind. Could not have said it better myself. I can imagine a not too uncommon scenario where one gets cheated on and left for the person they cheated with and the victim of infidelity claiming the callousness and manipulation that occurred is proof of NPD abuse

But if someone is repeatedly selfish and cruel they are being highly narcissistic. Especially if they hide their abusive behavior from others while also accepting no responsibility for said abuse. I understand all abusers are not full blown NPD but they all are highly narcissistic. I'm just now fully realizing (at the age of 36) how to distinguish between when I've actually done something wrong verses when someone is blame shifting onto me. This is due to constantly being blame shifted in my childhood for having basic emotional needs. Finally I can recognize when I'm being manipulated but for the longest time I couldn't. I took many of my social cues from how others reacted to me without questioning if they were in the wrong. I was accustomed to people being rude, manipulative, and cruel towards me only to never apologize and instead blame me for their behavior - And I believed them. I get that Narcissistic Abuse Syndrome isn't an official diagnosis. However, when you've treated so badly in your childhood that you are an excellent target for abusers in adulthood - Your psyche is seriously screwed up. It can be reversed but it's a lot of layers to go through. Essentially my psyche was wired backwards leaving me unable to recognize abuse. Particularly covert abuse.

This has to be an objective standard though. The initial comment repeatedly selfish and cruel From the abusees perspective is a subjective anecdotal experience. It may be reality or not. It’s also entirely possible that the subject is suffering from some form of delusion perhaps a narcisstic delusion themselves and sees the person as being narcissistic and abusive given how they don’t play into ones own grandiose narcisstic fantasy of how they should be treated. It does happen narcissts slandering other people and blaming problems on everyone else but themselves. I’m not saying that is true in your case I have zero way of knowing. I’m stating the issues with trying to diagnose someone you are personally and/or romantically involved with. It’s unreliable at best and dangerously inaccurate to say oh yes they have this major personality disorder. Also, if indeed it’s true you are being repeatedly drawn towards people with severe personality problems and reaching a level of involvement where you let them repeatedly abuse you at some point you need to be more proactive and get help. I do think people inherently are over diagnosing people with this disorder and doing so wrecklessly. Like how many of you have googled “x” disorder labeled criteria then said yes they have “x”.

@@FivesEyes I agree with much of what you said. Narcissists certainly do project! They truly don't see their role in any of the chaos they create! In their minds they're the hero or victim but never the one to blame in the slightest! And I'm sure there are people wrongly labeling others as NPD - Often even. But I do believe NPD is far more prevalent than stated in statistics. People with NPD never take accountability. Even on the rare occasion they go to therapy - They'll just present their False Self to the therapist because they believe it's who they truly are. How then can most people with NPD ever be diagnosed? You are right about me needing to be more proactive! It took me a very long time to realize I was attracting Narcissists, why, and finally how to trust my own feelings and intuition. But what concerns me is therapists treating just the symptoms of Narcissistic Abuse - Not realizing the root of the issues are far deeper then say depression, anxiety, low self esteem etc. That's why I feel Narcissistic Abuse Syndrome diagnosis would be helpful. Particularly for people who were raised by a Narcissist.

And you calling it all NONSENSE is to belittle our experience.

Healing_ Awakening thank you. Owning my narrative and speaking my truth is part of my recovery. I kept at it and finally found a therapist who is truly trauma informed. I joined a support group that she runs for survivors as well. I hope you are doing well on your journey. It is possible to heal and recover from this. It takes a lot of work but it’s so worth it.

Almost a year later since my original response. I still suffer from severe PTSD symptoms in the form of shaking, fear, freezing, isolation, self doubt, feelings of worthlessness and complete frustration that the therapeutic community lacks understanding of the phenomenon of narcissistic abuse. I am much better than I was a year ago with the help of a therapist who is a veteran in trauma support, but even she doesn’t get it. I am glad to see you addressing this problem in your more recent videos and I am appreciative but I come back to this one occasionally as a reminder that even the most educated and respected mental health care professionals are very misinformed about this pervasive and very dangerous problem. I’m glad to see your views have evolved in your later videos and I hope you can help bring awareness to your peers in the clinical world. Hundreds of thousands of people just in the US are seeking support and are suffering. It will take me years to fully recover from the abuse I have suffered from narcissistic friends, family and romantic partners. I owe everything to the grass roots movement in narc abuse recovery. It filled the gap where the traditional mental health community, with a few exceptions, fell flat on its face.

You are most welcome!

Excellent! thanks for your succinct description of narc. abuse.

Well explained. Thankyou.

Labels give you a means to be understood and empathized, "never healed anyone" my ass

The above hacker 👆🆙 helped me when I was going through Narcissism Abuse

What makes you think thats not what he does?

Its horrific at best...what a ride i just came off of ..

Being able to choose the pov that most resonates with you might not always be the best choice. People on yt want you to resonate with them and say what you want to hear. And that is not gonna be healing, just a relief at best.

Very true.

Thank you!

he dismissed it wasn’t addressed unfortunately this video invalidated the reality that those who have npd especially when it is on the more extreme end, as Dr Grande states himself is a psychopathy which includes inability to feel empathy, exploitive of people, cunning, engage in triangulation and scapegoating, cruel sadistic so to say these behaviors doesn’t result in trauma in the victim to hear that from him was a bit of a shock to some here, although he has many great videos this isn’t one of them, I guess he feels he must wait til it’s officially in the dsm- although it’s kind of funny that at the same time if I understood him correctly that’s how disorders are first started to begin with- there’s an observable pattern of distinct symptoms over time in certain people that eventually if backed up becomes a disorder in the dsm. The fact the dsm changes and evolves etc should be all the more reason not to just discredit a whole population of people who were victims of the specific type of abuse from narcs

@@ladybug947 Maybe it's just very slow-moving and conservative like the FDA they call it "a very pedestrian body" because it moves very slowly and won't change rulings on drugs overnight.

@@ladybug947 i completely agree the sheer volume of victims flooding the internet should tell them something is up.