The analogy you used while test driving the car- “there is no second gear” will stay with me forever, it’s ingrained in my brain now. Your analysis are just so profound. Thank you again and again Dr. Grande!
My ex husband had no second gear in our relationship. Unfortunately I did see it before we married, but I was that “failure to learn” person. I saw the car swerving but I pulled up along side it thinking it would stop when it saw me - I thought I could teach him how to love smh. I was 21 and oh so naive. Now he has alienated me from my children and caused so much destruction to them but they take his side.
Yes that's how they roll. So damn stupid. I'm sorry i know exactly what you are taking about. But they don't. Because they are...never gonna get it never gonna it. Remember that old song 😂 That's why they make you explain yourself to death. They are not hard headed like we thought, they are narcissists🌺
Mine too. My husband would take me out once a year on our anniversary. Maybe again in his bday. Gets drunk and talks to absolutely everyone. Buys them drinks. I stopped having a drink when he takes me out. He leaves me standing alone and men will hit on me. Try to grope me. And he doesn’t care. I’ve been put in dangerous situations bc he trusts everyone. Leaves the bars in New Orleans with them, usually to show him another bar. But we are out in the street at like 4am. I want to go back to the hotel or go home, but I’m being negative and want to start a fight. We just get lured off, I’m walking by myself. Usually my feet are sore and I can’t keep up. People have tried to split us up on the road and get me to think he went ahead to some other bar but I checked them all til i found the one he was at nearby. I tell him right away about what is happening but he is having too much fun. Tells me to go buy a drink. I tell him again the next morning and I’m ruining his weekend starting a fight. One night a bouncer next to us got stabbed trying to break up some crazy knife fight with other patrons. My husband was so wasted that he didn’t see people running to the door. I had to grab him to pull him away. He called me a bitch. The next day he found blood specs on his shirt and asked about them, he thanked me and told me how good I was to him. Yadda yadda. Since then it has been brought up and I’ve been called controlling and I exaggerated a stabbing. I refuse to go out with him anymore. Now I’m just a bitch that wants to be miserable all the time. Then he’s sorry, because he wants sex, after sex I’m a controlling bitch again. He is a monster at all hours of the day. My monster. I feel sick when he hugs me, tries to kiss me and I cringe every time he says “I love you”. I’ve never hated a human so much in my life, but I am not allowed to leave or I will be punished somehow. He never lied about that. I hope one day, my son and I will make it out of here. I want to live again, but I’m afraid this woman was dead a long time ago. I hope we can all find a way to be stronger. I hope karma destroys our monsters for us.
My boyfriend does too... I thought he was the nicest person I ever met when I met him. I thought "this could be a red flag" but I didn't act on my intuition
The nc abuse start to occur immediatly after our wedding. Before no red flags, nothing- being 4 years together and living together. After the birth of our son it start to be emotional hell for me!! After 1,5 years I noticed it's not a phase, it get's worse, nothing helps and I felt like murdered from the inside. I left and divorced and never regret it!!!
Thank you Dr. Grande for bringing awareness about narcissistic abuse. Everything you said about the heat slowly rising was extremely validating for me. I had no idea what narcissism even was until about 2 years into my marriage, we're now on four years. Many people who don't have a full understanding of narcissism and the abuse that comes with it have no idea how difficult it is to just up and leave. Thank you for shedding light on such an important topic.
I met my narc ex-husband in university. I was an academically advanced, naive girl who had never had a boyfriend. Nearly twenty years later, I was running for my life because the God of the Universe revealed to me that my ex had a complex scheme to murder me. Mr. Moneybags Rockafeller didn't want to spend his money to divorce me, so he 'logically' concluded it would be cheaper to off me. So, sometimes you DO have to just up and leave, if you want to live. Although, you are exactly right that dealing with this type of relationship is very difficult. Just be ready to protect yourself physically, emotionally and certainly financially.
True, it is difficult to leave. Not impossible though with the right support- Womens Aid in the UK. It may take several times of leaving the narcissist to finally get free. I recommend the work of HG Tudor on RU-vid in helping you realise exactly how the push & pull process of being in a relationship with a narcissist works. And he explains how to leave for good.
I was with a narcissist for 10 years and didnt know it. I thought he fell out of love with me and i blamed myself. This info is so validating and helpful. I just wish I knew before I spent 10 years with him and had 2 children with him. The emotional starvation thing is right on. Thank you.
@@dilciaenid57 I quit my job bc I was so mentally unstae from all the abuse and he said he would not pay the bills on his own and he left! Lmao! I was discarded! I had always worked and only been unemployed for 2 months at the time! I was sad for about a month and then I started to feel like myself again! Best thing that ever happened to me!
Oh hell yea last year I was sick with Covid bronchitis sinusitis and pneumonia and all he did was complain I kept him awake did not lift on e finger to help me just bitched And complained about me coughing and spitting up my god how pathetic is he he probably gave it to me and didn’t know he had it cuz he didn’t get it and every time someone asks him if I had Covid he tells him bronchitis he leaves Covid out oh gees like I need that attention he’s so pathetic rn now the jack ssss is giving me the silent treatment LOL who cares
Where were you 20 years ago. I wish I would have known about narcissism before I met my ex. I guess that is pointless. It is what it is. Thanks for your wonderful wisdom and direction. You explain everything so plainly!
Mines like that as well, except he ALWAYS puts on the "im a holy man" mask and belittles us in the smallest ways. But when we have fights, his "holiness" gets thrown out of the window lmao
I feel you both. My stepdad loved to kiss up to priests, would get up at 4:00am to say the rosary, then kick the cat and threaten to blow up the house. When he put a gun to my sister's head when she was 16, she mocked him by falling to her knees saying a "Hail Mary", to which he replied that he didn't care if he went to hell for murder (for a minor infraction). Throughout our teen years we were told repeatedly what a kind and generous man he was and if we dared to speak the truth people would say we were exaggerating because he couldn't possibly be that way at home. In fact, I begged a woman I babysat for not to bring her son to our house because my stepfather might be cruel to the boy. She didn't believe me, and he ended up twisting the child's arm and threatening him. I find that it's still pointless to discuss with anyone but my step-nieces who didn't believe their own mother when she gave them the light version of the abuse she suffered, until I confirmed the stories and added more details that had been left out.
"just as long as it's not directed at me" was my mantra for years. When it started to be directed at me, I could look back and see the subtleties that it always could be.
thank you for your straight forward explanation. As you said there is a lot of jumbo mumbo out there about narcissism , but the way you explain it makes sense and is clear . I am just now 18 months out from a 23 year marriage, 4 children . i still love my narc husband , but I was left with nothing, he took the money, the house that we built together , the children, and my dignity and my friends. He turned almost everyone against me , it was not until a year down the line that my family and close friends saw what I was saying. i tried to take my own life once and thought of suicide several times.He is a well known, wealthy , very respected high high up in society, and I know I am blamed by most people for what happened. Now that I spend most of my time on my own , I remember the abuse that happened that passed right in front of me unnoticed , verbal, emotional, silent treatment for a month , telling me I needed a psychiatrist for my mood swings, telling everyone I was the one wearing the trousers in the house a joke he always used and I hated, any way many many many stories. Most recently physical abuse too.
Maybe you're thinking your former friends see you as he did. This sounds cliche but I adopted a stray from a shelter when things were really rough. I hadn't had a dog for years I deeply underestimated how much happiness pets can bring. And I don't recommend this if you not a pet person obviously! You say you're alone a lot & maybe you ruminate like I did... Dogs live in the moment, they think you are the best thing ever & it forces you to get out & about with them. Funny thing- all the traits I went in looking for (small, not a puppy etc) went out the window & I ended up with a now 50 lb pit bull mix who started as an odd looking hyper 4 month old puppy. Sometimes the universe gives you what you need, even if you don't realize it at first!
He took everything including the kids , abused you in so many ways, put the kids thru all of this and you still love him? I wish you took what you were entitled to from him and I hope you get the Councelling you need and the kids too.
I was diagnosed with autism in October. I lost my oldest closest friend of nearly 30 years a few months later, after she put me through a campaign of psychological abuse, which got worse and worse and she then cut me off completely after a disastrous meet up: she insulted me and then ate a meal I had paid for whilst I cried my eyes out in front of her. I have been trying to understand why she treated me so badly. It’s obvious that my diagnosis was an issue for her but when I really thought about it, I realised that she had started to treat me badly several years ago, when my husband and I moved house. We moved to a larger house than hers and for the first time I had something she didn’t have. I knew she could be very difficult to get on with at times but she’d never shown any jealousy until we moved. I missed the signs for so long because I had a very busy, difficult period in my life. However, when I remembered back, I realised that she had never said anything positive about the house, which was odd because it’s in a rural area, and she supposedly loves wildlife. I think my diagnosis was simply the tip of the iceberg. I’ve been trying to understand why she treated me so badly, she has very few positive relationships in her life and I’ve always been there for her: It’s completely illogical for her to push me away. I now think she has a form of narcissistic personality disorder. I have been watching a few of these videos and yours do seem to be well informed, well balanced and well researched. Presumably you’re a psychologist or psychiatrist? I do think that people forget that this is not just an issue in relationships. Just over a year ago I had a manager who was horrible to me. When I suffered a very sudden, unexpected bereavement she smiled at me! A colleague kept saying she was a narcissist but I had no idea what that meant. I can now see where my colleague was coming from. People with this condition have the power to bully people in all areas of their lives, not just their partners, especially people like me who don’t understand non verbal communication. I ended up having to leave that job after just a few months for my own sanity. I think the worse thing is that narcissists have no idea there’s anything wrong with their behaviour, they feel completely justified in their actions and they can’t understand why others are offended or upset by it. I am sure there’s been more than two in my life but they always seem to come out smelling of roses somehow, while I’ll never forget the way I’ve been treated.
I'm autistic, too. I've heard a lot of anecdotal evidence that we tend to attract bullies and manipulative people who might or might not have a diagnosis of narcissism. I have also experienced that in my life.
Dr Grande thank you so much for this explanation. The temperature kept rising and I didn’t notice it. When abuse has always been a part of your life sometimes you don’t recognize narcissists . Also, thank you for the insight and reassurance that the answer isn’t as easy as just leaving after 25 years. This video will save a lot of women from heartache if they learn & heed the warnings.
Thank you for acknowledging this is real. The journey to learning about narcissism you describe is exactly what happened to me. I was naive and innocent and got trapped by a spider.
Wrong wrong wrong! My narcissist was always very nice and generous to neighbors and friends. Charming and kind to strangers. But to me and the kids he was a monster.
Dr Grande, you have such wonderful insight and perception that I wonder if you’ve also learnt through personal experience or just have lots of empathy. I find it rare that a psychiatrist, therapist etc understands personality disorders beyond their text books but you certainly do. There are also some well known others but where I live, we are very much lacking, hence YT and the net has been hugely helpful to me recovering. Thank you for the excellent work you do, which helps me and many others. Best wishes
I was going to make a comment also about how a person with behaviors like NPD can show extreme kindness to strangers with no particular obvious benefit to themselves ( except of course to impress others or themselves), and then turn around and be utterly cruel to those closest to them. I experienced this which contributed to my confusion and increased my pain when abandoned. I witnessed this in a male family member of this person as well. Someone who would fix anything for someone else. What was also confusing was that this person would say they “hate” a particular local news person for no apparent reason and continually state this each time this person appeared. I guess we all have those well known people we don’t like or can’t stand for some reason, but to declare hate seems a bit much. Because of this, I wonder if I am now that person in conversation with the new person and with family. I never even knew about narcissism or realized how much emotional abuse I had endured, before I was abandoned for someone else after a very long marriage and had to try to figure it out. Thanks for your videos, Dr. Grande.
This presentation was very good. A very clinical explanation without the judgemental component. I appreciate that. Too many videos give advice for the victim to leave. Like you mentioned, that is not always practical or advantageous do to the intertwined connections after years of being joined together with the narcissist. It's like you have to pick your poison. Either stay and find ways to cope or leave and risk financial devastation or hardships. Not an easy choice. Thank you for your video.
I was with Wounded Hero Narcissist for 20 years who ensnared me and then “turned the heat up slowly.” Mr. Upstanding Citizen gradually revealed no ethics, conscience, or shame, especially when the breakup happened. He easily shifted into Scorched Earth mode without any hesitation. 3 1/2 years later I am still shell shocked. He of course moved on quickly with new supply.
so devastating to see how they are stuck at that level there is no second gear wow and the philosophical delivery is the narcs way of displaying grandiosity and feeling superior; talk about subtle manipulation tactics the emotional starvation is really real yet that is my deficiency in the eyes of the narcissist; my desire for closeness is childish or immature they can be so stoic yet they are flat and empty; hollow inside i have seen this type of profound apathy before where it appears that the person’s inner child is so severely wounded that they refuse to move out of that dark place their control is to keep their deep wounds a secret so that no one can ever see how hurt they really are
@Dr.ToddGrande This video is awesome. You nail it on head from beginning to end. I’m a survivor myself and, like you correctly stated, became educated looking for answers right in the middle of being hammered with insidious abuse about 12 years ago now. Just as you stated as well, I was trapped by the time her mask was off around me and the abuse acceleration began. I also couldn’t leave my infant son with someone I knew would likely replace me as supply with him, I’d be paying her to do it, and blamed by him later for not staying to protect him as he becomes another damaged person unleashed on society. I opted to take the daily and long term damage, and endure the cost of supporting the person who wrecked our family instead. This started when my son was almost one, and then it took about 9 years to get her to finally move out for good, and I’ve been a single Dad ever since. I’m currently working on a series called Epidemic on Display which covers Covert Narcissist Abuse from the victims point of view and Covert Narcissism which is analysis of the abusers tactics, methods, and patterns. We are aligned on the idea of the need for education and research to raise awareness, in order to drive consideration for decisions on prevention and root cause solutions. In fact I’d like to see this be part of early education in schools, and part of a prevention detection strategy. I’d very much like to include select excepts from this video, as well as your run down of all personality disorders in my upcoming full length feature and other shorter supporting videos. Wanted to ask for permission to do so, and if interested, perhaps review my survivor’s take and approach, and see if it’s accurate for the examples I’m using from a Dr’s point of views. Not sure how to reach you effectively, so I’m trying here first. Hope this reaches you well. Probably try twitter next if I don’t hear back. Either way, thank you for your consideration and this excellent work. I’ve watched a ton of doctors and experts on these topics, and you probably deliver the knowledge in the most true to life way I’ve seen so far. Keep up the great work and hopefully we can find a way to unify enough people that we can move beyond the current reactionary paradigm.
I agree with what was said about why narcissistic abuse can be so damaging...because it can really come to a head when you've intertwined your life with someone and then the relationship is destroyed. I also think that it's so devastating because when that happens, when it sneaks up after years and years you are terrified to live through that again. So trauma responses come into new relationships, and getting away from always being on edge is almost impossible. I find myself waiting, watching, and questioning if someone is a narcissist or not. The stress is intense long after the relationship ends. And this could be especially true if there are children and the victim is not able to be no contact with the abuser.
For many of the 63 years we had been married I thought his behavior was very much like his dad's. About a year and a half ago I became aware he had what I've learned is narcissism. This has been and remains to be, very difficult. Thank you Doctor!!
This is a very interesting video, I find interesting your insight on how shallow the person is with their inability to give or be reciprocal like a child who stayed in a certain early age of development n that is how they come across, well said. Thank you.
I was in a 6 year intimate relationship with an individual about 24 years ago. By all appearances he was a real catch. I felt lucky that he would even choose me. However, there were things that he did that made no sense to me and would make me feel like I was a POS. I would push him away. He would make up to me by buying me a piece of jewelry, be nice, make love to me and tell me how much he loves me. This would last a couple of days then back to his old ugly self. He was a police officer. So , he would blame his physical abuse on the stresses of his job . I believed him. I just quit him. I moved on. I got tired of the Rollercoaster ride of emotions. After I left the relationship, I found out he had two other women who were carrying his babies...one of the women was an Aunt of mine. Thank you for showing me that it was him, not me. I have been carrying the guilt of letting go of what I once thought was the best thing that ever happened to me. I'm much older and much wiser now. I am marries to a wonderful man who treats me like a lady. He loves me with the faults and without. He believes in me. We believe in each other. I honestly don't feel deserving of him. As long as we keep God as the head of our marriage, I believe we will never fail at loving each other. Thank you again.
I always agree with you Dr.Grande. You're really good at keeping it sensible and away from the annoying trends that you will tend to go with in the family courtroom I use you a lot to prepare for my case because I feel like any judgment by anything you said it's the sensibility about she it's wonderful
Lived thru it, so hard, not so much now, but I was the last to know and the gaslighting, I loved this man with all my heart, but the tragedy is I still live with it!!!!!!!……In my mind, it’s horrible and some never get over it!!!!!
Yes I noticed them flirting alot in my absence and I would told he been seen here and there with so and so but I lied to myself when we got married he would stop. That would never be coz it escalated and it took longer for me to realise I was in an abusive relationship. Its usually quite devasting not knowing until its late.
Thank you for enlightening me, what you have been speaking on is what I have seen in a so call friend. I have been avoiding her, she is mean in a sneeky kind of way. When Iam not around her I have so much peace. One of my MANTRAS is: I FOLLOW AFTER PEACE. 🙏✌❤💕
I dated a guy on and off for almost a year who, in retrospect, my therapist has suggested was a narcissistic abuser. I only realize now how lucky I was to finally get out. It was an affair that led me to finally leave, which felt so painful at the time but was truly the biggest blessing because it allowed me to untangle myself from that
Well put! The emotional starvation and withhold of intimacy! Thank you for clarifying that this is a form of abuse & not healthy whatsoever. ❤️ your videos! Thank you for helping me understand myself and others.
I had a friend who was over the top narcissist. She was so sick but I tried to help her. She wasn't always sick and she was so funny! She carried her doctorate in her purse to show off! She interviewed for a make up artist and when they asked her what her qualifications were and she said i am beautiful! I tried to help her but it was hopeless! She was sexually abused and immediately told her parents. He was put in prison. She would never speak about what happened and i found that very strange. I was the only person who could speak up to her because she could intimidate everyone. I knew that someday she would drop me like a hot potato!! She did when I was being confirmed, what a perfect time! She was angry because I told her this man she was interested in was married and older than her. Never heard from her again! She was waiting for the right time! I could tell you stories that may shock you. She left the church we attended and joined another church where she promptly had an affair with the priest! She hates men and wants no long time relationships. I think it's so sad!!
Can I ask you how old she was. I met a women she is in her mid 60s she was very secretive , went out with her a few times she kept me as a friend only, of the few times we would meet , afterwards she would be on the phone with somebody, one time asked if she had a boyfriend she never replied but got mad for asking.
"If someone is kind to their neighbour than ..." Being such master hypocrites as they are, narcissists do tend to be extremely kind with strangers but as soon as this person leaves and narcissist is around his family members the mask falls off in a second. Personally, it's the inconsistency of their behaviour that has prevented me from figuring them out for a long time. And when it's mixed with gaslighting and constant undermining of another person's sense of self by a narc, it becomes nearly impossible to jump out of this crazy loop. Besides, they are not always toxic towards their family members either, in the midst of gaslighting, humiliation and general lack of empathy, a narcissist may decide to be nice and gentle and mislead their partner/child, kind of wait till they get all relaxed and...boom! here we go-rage, gaslighting, humiliation.
Oooh boy yes insidious that’s what got me & after 25 years it was so acute, gut wrenchingly bad I was lucky to find a way out & people don’t realise what’s happening to you even if you explain what has happened over the years they say it mustn’t have been that bad or you wouldn’t have stayed so long. They just don’t understand that you’ve been bound by an invisible tether and you feel that you can never be able to get free from them till one little door opens & you just need to be brave enough to make the first step. Thank you for the affirmation Doctor Grande
You are so right about those signs. I've dated 4 narcissists in my younger adulthood, and I only found out that there was a 4th one and that I was on my 5th one once I watched a few videos. I had my own names for the people that I dated with these behaviors but I mostly summed them up to being childishly and unnecessarily insecure. After discovering that Narcissism was not just a word that meant someone full of themself, as I had previously thought, meaning it didn't sound serious when I'd heard it in everyday life. But recently I stared hearing the word become so popular, so I looked it up on RU-vid to see if it was related to my most recent narcissist's actions, and realized that Narcissism as a disorder was what was going on in my current relationship. And I realized that this was what was going on with the 4 previous (bad relationships) that I'd had, sprinkled within the normal relationships. I also went on to research more and realized that my mom and my dad, both of my brothers, one of my uncle's, one of my aunt's and a couple of my cousins were all narcissists. Oh, and me. 😉 I found out that the childish urges that I'd been fighting to change within my own narcissistic relationships, was my own narcissistic traits manifesting. Thank God for my own Spirituality because, I was always working on stopping these behaviors that I thought were in most people, I even thought that I was special in my family and the larger world I was the Black Sheep), because I seemed to be the only one who refused to stop maturing at the level of a child, deliberately. I knew from growing up around my family that something was wrong but everyone, even the other children normalized it. I felt weird compared to everyone. I once had a breakdown in middle school because I was trying to explain to my narcissistic mom that I was not cut out for the setup of this world and that I didn't want to stay because I'm never going to be able to survive this. Ironically, this same feeling affected my own narcissistic traits, where I thought, because no one understood my point of view, "I must have an extraordinary mind compared to the average mere mortal because my family's narcissistic behaviors were so outrageous and honestly plain to see to me, but I was the only one who could see it. Then, when I went to Ramtha's School of Enlightenment and got told about myself through the teachings, I finally saw basically some Grandiose Narcissistic traits in myself, and because of my own embarrassment regarding how see-through such behaviors are, I was motivated to change, but for real. Growing up in such a narcissistic family forced me to depend on my own company and my own strategies fir my own protection. To this day, I only really respect children because I can see their true human nature before it's destroyed through indoctrination. It's like, they're me before these monsters got to me. I am known for being extremely good with children, but most people don't know that I many times I still despise most other adults, especially if I see them belittling children. Imagine growing up in a narcissistic family and having to watch the generations of children behind you be ruined by the same adults who suffered with you (grown ups now) as children. It's like they forgot their own pain and just moved forward. I could not forget.
I was with my ex for about 10 months before I went no contact. It took several attempts to do so and finally I got some help from my dad to get away from him. Without him I would have kept going back. My ex exhibited all of these types, and even after he hit me I didn’t think I would walk away. The point is, even though a lot happened in a seemingly short amount of time, it had a lasting impact on me. Thank you for the great analogies and helpful video. It’s been about a year since I went no contact with my ex. I was wondering, even though I know the “why”, the motive for his actions and behavior, personal gain, etc. Why do I still have this longing to know more? The “why?”, question still constantly haunts me. Is it my inability to fully move on? Is it a mental scar?
Manipulative gaslighting is the worst, and yes, the abusive behavior comes on slowly. Then there is the double-back. After being abusive, they fallback on the charm, even though they never truly switch gears because every move is calculated towards controlling others. Dangerous.
It took 28 years of narcissistic abuse to finally flee my marriage. My husband was a very intelligent manipulator, gas lighter, and emotional abuser. He was a womanizer, who was always unfaithful! He pretended to be religious and pranced in the synagogue like he was the almighty! My children were embarrassed by his behavior. I had to remove them to another part of the room. I became very depressed and suicidal after years of his behavior. He manipulated any therapist I tried! It took me 20 years to get my life back. He destroyed my career by not allowing me to work. He threatened to put me into poverty, which he did! He married a desperate rich woman, within 2 yrs of the divorce.
that story about the 2nd gear is SO painfully accurate, and it's scary. Abusers all have the same behaviors, it's like they have a "how to mentally and emotionally abuse" manual that they read every morning. Both of my abusers (yes, I dated two, sue me. They seemed so different at first- one was an extrovert and outspoken, the other was more introverted and quiet, etc), whenever I would ask them why they were treating me a certain way, or why they were doing something terrible, why they would lie or cheat, among all the other awful things they did to me, they would act as though it was ridiculous that I would even THINK that they wouldn't. I was CRAZY for even ASSUMING that they wouldn't do that. And they seemed to sure, too. They were so confident that I became unsure. They would come up with these crazy twisted reaches, these bizarre explanations that NO logical person would ever think were reasonable, but they said them so surely and so adamantly that it really made me wonder if I was wrong. It really chipped away at my psyche (which is exactly what they wanted.) It took me so long to recover my mental health after breaking up. If you read this and you relate, I'm sorry. If you're still in that situation- yes, he/she IS abusing you. Don't wonder. It's happening, dump them, ASAP.
I became trapped in the hell of a “marriage “ to a coercively controlling, physically and verbally abusive, cheating, negligent , alcoholic, sadistic person with NPD. The best way to describe trying to co exist with someone this malevolent is you can’t win for losing ..there’s no stopping his evil it’s like trying to stop a damn of water with a bandaid.
I’ve been divorced from my narc for 30 years now, but I still see him at our daughter’s at holiday time. Yes, he still sounds like the condescending know-it-all I left back when. And he hasn’t grown or changed as a person since I met him 51 years ago. Sad.
I am 65 years old. I discovered about 3/2021 that my kids dad had overtly abusive narcissistic traits and then around July I discovered my oldest daughter also had narcissistic abuse where she lacks empathy for me and my grandson. She claims that I overstepped boundaries in her home, just by trying to get her to talk about being very controlling, when she was very disrespectful to too many psychological boundaries of mines. She acted like she hated me for mentoring her flaws. She put her hand in my face if I tried to talk to her over 10 minutes regarding any issue! And asked me to leave her home and never return! Unless I went along with this foolishness and disrespect !
Big fan of your posts and page. I listen everyday. I'm a narcissistic abuse survivor (Also am Adhd & an "empath") with an ex who has basically just Cluster B Disorder, or, "EVERY DISORDER SPECIFIED." - No, that was a little joke, but in reality, he SEEMINGLY had many Cluster B traits from many of the cluster b disorders IMO. I've learned a lot from you! I thought I'd ask if you would talk about "Projective Identification" in individuals with vNPD and/or BPD? I believe that he did this and I would react often. I in turn would react in ways that I believe that I normally would not have. Based on this I would like to know more about Projective Identification and would like to hear your view and understanding of it as it's such an invisible way of controlling someone who doesn't identify what's happening in the given situation.
I'M dear Soul, where were you 40 years ago when this information would have changed everything in my life, and others!? Thank u for your work and such useful information.
I didn’t discover it was narcissism until we had known each other for 12 years, married for 8 years. Plus kids, mortgage, combined finances. I ripped the band aid off, and haven’t regretted it yet
My 2 experiences were all definitely slow onset. They were overly kind in the beginning, but now thanks to your channel, I realize there were red flags in the beginning (I just didn’t know what a narcissist was). Unfortunately, I have recently ended another relationship like this. I was so lonely that I didn’t notice the red flags. I almost married this person. Fortunately, he physically threatened me and I knew that was it. That was after several signs that I ignored. I feel like such a fool to assume that they’re innocent from this behavior. I’m hoping that I will see the red flags next time and cut things off immediately. I’m still learning.
The test drive in a car for sale, which had no second gear, is dramatic. The series of lies and other misrepresentations from the seller was long by that point, but only then discovered. Overall this is a very good video. The information will be helpful for people planning to escape narcissistic abuse.
I could not understad initially in the past and trapped but I do not know much about that concept. My ex husbamd showed a lot of empathy initially...later on now i do understand that it was fake. I was fortunate enough not to have a child and after 3 months living together in a marriage I awoken and made exit plan. But it was so hard. I believe now I might not trap again and catch the signs..I assume surely. Many Thanks
It is nightmare. When I try to describe what I am hearing from my partner and how it makes me feel. No one seems to understand. If there is no punching people don't take it seriously. The only people who truly understand are those who have e been through it.
You described my ex- husband perfectly. I was happy living in my house with my pets. He found out I had a little money talked. Me into selling my home Move into his house and then we were going to buy a house in an area we both loved. I gave him what ever amount of money. He come to the office and pick
I had no idea what narcissist meant or was until I was going through it. By this point it’s too late. I was 7 years in. I studied it and now know when I see it a mile away. It freaking sucks. That person never change. Get out!
Thank you for this clear presentation. To what point can we consider an emotional withdrawal and depression on the part of a victims as being a form of (very understandable) narcissistic neglect or loss of dept in reaction to other forms of narcissistic abuse?
We must always work on ourselves. Developing and expanding ourselves is top priority, especially if u have a narcissistic parent/s like me. Unfortunately we do get some of those narcissistic trait imprinted in us and we can be doing it to our partners and children unconsciously.
"There is no 2nd gear!" 😄 Love the way you explained that. From now on when I'm starting to get upset by his actions that's what I'm going to say to myself
Hi Dr. Grande, we know this is an older vid, just had to say thank you for your brilliant content. Your presentation and insights together with occasional dry humor is v enjoyable. Happy New Year, December 31, 2021 🌺🎶
after reading many comments, I found it's interesting that in almost all Narcissism abusive romantic relationships the victims are women, but in most parents-children emotional abusive cases , women are abusive mothers. So when man abuse women, the women generally don't just leave or fight back, the emotional starvation twist their mind, so they turn their pressures to their children. So sad, poor children, cold fathers, manipulative crazy mothers.
Hi Dr. Grande- I really enjoy your videos. I'm trying to find reasons not to actively hate a well-known public figure who exhibits the textbook symptoms of narcissism. Can you do a video on the causes of narcissism, or maybe explore aspects of narcissistic personality disorder that relatively 'normal' people could sympathize with or relate to in some way? There's got to be a human being in there somewhere.
I was a waitress and had a 15 yr old girl attempt to order a salad and basically was creating her own from every single salad we offered. Halfway through I stopped writing. Adjustments were one thing but this was completely off the chain! I wouldn't even know how to charge them for said salad. I just looked at her and said, if everyone ordered like this we would never get food out of the kitchen. Of course the enabling mother demands to see the manager. Was my comment wrong? Yes, but she definitely needed to be called out. Hate to see that girl as a grown woman today.
The pain of being lying to is problematic and untrustworthy. I never knew how hateful the ex husband is. Vulgar, evil, cruel mean hateful, adultery, vanity, for 36 year's. Learned 5 year's ago when he became emotional involved with another woman. The double standard is laughable to the ex. Brutal existence.
In my case, we are nearly a year into no contact. I will try to be short with the actual abuse itself bht I had just began a self accountability journey & was learning j struggle with an unhealthy attachment style ((avoidant) which makes opening up difficult. He spent the next 2 years pushing past boundaries so quickly i found it impossible to create themlf. By the end I was convinced I was broken beyond capable love, i was defective, i was heartless, i was never going to find someone who would tolerate how horrifically I was beyond bring a functional partner. Refused to ever leave my house regardless of having his own, would go through my devices and casually go back as far as my previous relationship who i was engaged to and shamelessly bring up more ways im useless. When he approached me at my 7 year olds. Ass all game and began to scream horrific things at me jn front of other parents, and my child I made a choice. He made threats i knew would be carried out if j left. Changed my phone number after hundreds of fake numbers calling me daily, and hundreds of texts saying horrible things to me. So much emotional blackmail when I had tried to subtly ease things back, which turned into blatant threats, which inevitably turned into less horrific than another day where I was. Since cutting contact the anger he was able to find ways to slide through via weird methods stopped working & j refused to defend myself. I am a musician and during his reign over my life he picked up the exact same specific style & things he’d made me feel ashamed for. He stjll manages to contact me from burner accounts to this day with almost an entitlement to be forgiven & uses phrases like “i realize some people take longer to get over their anger” he seems annoyed in each message & repeats how he’s been to therapy and just wants a few minutes in person. (After literally parking outside my house as a scare tactic not that long before) Every time I perform he is there, claiming to be there for the main act but shows up with impeccable timing to make sure I know he is there while i am trying to do something that used to bring me so much light. After he continued to approach me i finally involved security which didn’t make him very happy. He is now using a structure of intros into my world via manipulation & i feel like even though the aggression at me has ended, he will never stop and will end up ruining my reputation, the last space i has r tbat brings me joy & fulfillment. The abuse and feeling so afraid for so long to even breathe wrong was awful but j cannot fathom someone capable of stjll finding drive for revenge for solely being told no more. For me, the worst part of this experience was listening to blackmail pile up, & knowing he’d absolutely do as much damage as he could when I left, it still feels like i have to be in constant readiness to defend myself against an unknown.
There are people who are kind to strangers, neighbors, etc., but cruel and manipulative in private. So you cannot be sure that because someone is kind to strangers, they will be kind to you.
Yep he tells people I'm crazy ,I'm making things up but he can get caught red handed it's my fault if you look for issues then you will find them! Wow I'm so done very hurt but I'm done. It's all about how he feels.
The destruction is so sad too. The 'strangers' they suck up to and treat like gold, will be gone, while their dependent family members, and loved ones are destroyed. Just who do they think they will be with them to spend their older years, or be at their deathbed? Oh, that's right... they don't think ahead.
I met an individual and observed his interactions with other people. This person was outright nasty. I thought to myself hmmmmm I wonder if he will ever treat me that way🤔 let’s just say it did not take long lol
Thank you for the “will” and “won’t” explanation. Being in a “relationship” with a narcissist is like having all of the cons of a relationship but none of the pros. The depth that you expect to develop never does, and it is good to realise it’s not because there is something wrong with you needing it, it’s just that the narcissist is incapable of developing that depth and doesn’t even know they’re lacking in it, or that it’s critical to the development of any healthy relationship.
My ex took some pride in being "disciplined" & unemotional. When I finally realized he just wasn't capable of empathy he didn't disagree. I had a moment of clarity then. When I left I told him that I felt sympathy for him. Imagine not experiencing true love or friendship ever. I'll take the the highs and lows emotional depth gives me any day over not. He actually got quiet for once ; it hadn't occurred to him that he was ever missing out on something.
This is what makes altruistic or communal narcissists especially dangerous...they will consistently show generosity and niceness to others but withhold that inside the family, behind closed doors.
R N - yes I have met two like that, they are 100x more dangerous than an extroverted npd/bpd because their manipulations are far more subtle. It takes a lot of experience with learning how Cluster Bs behave, even to begin to recognise the covert/introvert npd/bpd.
Yes. The abuse of covert malignant narcs is subtle, passive aggressive, and deniable. Sometimes directed at certain individuals (as in a workplace, where these narcs will abuse only certain people in certain situations and everyone else only sees the saintly giving behaviors).
Narcissistic abuse by your parent or parents is probably even more devastating. It can happen from the time you're born, and if you grow up with it, as a child you don't have a clue that your parent is sick. You grow up with massive psychological / emotional wounds that you may not recognise that you even have, unless you are somehow lucky enough to have the space, time & resources to start to undo the damage.
I’m recovering from 7 years of narcissistic abuse by my husband who seems to fit into the categories of narcissistic personality disorder comorbid with borderline personality disorder. His narcissistic and toxic aunt was his caregiver. It’s a multi-generational tragedy which is affecting multiple other innocent people including his children. I’m using all my might to heal myself, to protect my child, and to break his family curse from further destroying me. Be strong, my friend. The truth has set you free. Now you can stretch your own wings and be yourself and find your own peace and joy. Love yourself first! Be strong!
Hi bunny. .so true... Living this... Got to see it only 2years ago...the awakening!!! Now I am doing damage control for myself by myself... Tormented too long now I see the light.... Thanks Dr Grande for insight!
Betsy Cho.B - I had to go completely no contact with the few relatives I have, for reasons best not gone into. Since doing so, I have noticed my self-confidence return slowly, and therefore also my self-acceptance. Without the negative influence being in the background, my emotions have slowly begun to calm down, my mind is becoming clearer, and I have started to make positive changes that were long overdue in my life. I really believe that self healing work cannot begin to bear fruit, until you go completely no contact with whomever your abuser is.
It took me 10 years to realize I wasn’t the one always at fault or mentally unstable, and another four years and approximately ten attempts to leave for good. Leaving the relationship was more difficult than quitting the painkiller habit I developed to cope with the abuse. I now choose to see the entire experience as the greatest gift of my life. At the end I was left with no sense of self, totally shattered, which gave me the unique opportunity to rebuild myself in a conscious manner. I’m not the same person I was prior to the relationship, I’m a better person in so many ways. Thank you for contributing to getting this information out and doing it in an intelligent and unbiased way.
My experience is very similar except 25 years invested. I’m not the same person I was 3 years ago and that is truly a gift. I remember who I was before and have added the lessons from those years. I really appreciate who I am now. Excited about what growth is yet to come. Good life to you.
Elizabeth Rose. Your story parallels mine so closely. It took me 12 yrs to figure out what exactly was going on and then 5 years to get out with my tattered soul. But life improved steadily from then on. Blessings to you!
@@janeknose6136 I think with internet the information is getting out there. There is much more awareness than 20 years ago where you could hardly find any information. People now seem to learn about these disorders after contact with these people which is better than before, where there was basically nothing. What I find interesting about the internet is what people become interested in when there is freedom to start groups, RU-vid channels etc when we are less dependent on the "official media", official psychiatric/psychological information. This subject has basically expoded....because there was a need. I predict this subject will continue to flourish in this type of media, unless the powers that be try to stop it....and they might. Hopefully it does get to the point where it is taught to children at a young age. Bullying in schools is so poorly managed in schools atm I can't see this happening in the near future but at least there is "the internet" now to spread information and hopefully it eventually gets to children in schools. Even if children were taught what abuse is including the more manipulative psychological abuse this would be a start. What we can do now is teach our own children and families. Sadly this is how change happens, slowly. There is nothing new about this either. Decades ago it was the feminist movement that brought child abuse/child sexual abuse to light. Not psychiatric/psycholgic sources as you would have thought.
@Le Wats I agree. Healthy boundaries are necessary. But why hide reality? These disorders exist. These people are incredibly destructive and there is no cure (maybe occasional improvement). They do incredible damage to people's lives even people who have healthy boundaries. Healthy boundaries alone are not guaranteed protection. If you get in the way of something they want they will do damage to you even if they don't know you (I have seen that as well). We need to develop a society that recognises these personalities and protects people. No sugar coating. We do need to be alarmist when these individuals are around.
Read How to Spot a Dangerous Man (before you get involved). This book could stop all women from attracting emotionally broken men in its tracks. I tell every woman who is not in a healthy marriage/relationship about it. My ex is a narc...already educating my 15 year old daughter. @@janeknose6136
Thank you for showing me that the total withholding of affection and withholding sex is a type of abuse. I always felt it was and that he even takes sadistic pleasure in hurting me that way, but I’ve never heard anyone say it the way you just did.. thank you for validating my feelings on this subject.
Debra Anchante This is so confusing to me. I have been so nervous and on edge with mine that I never wanted sex. He always wanted sex but it was as if that’s all he saw. . He said I was withholding sex, but really I just did not want it.
Not always; sometimes withholding S£X can be a good thing; and used as a laying down boundaries technique. Depending on the situation. If they don't settle down with you don't get intimate with them.
Untethered yeah same. I just don’t feel comfortable having sex all the time. I’ll admit that whenever he gives off signs of being turned on, I notice I leave him to watch RU-vid (mostly subconsciously). I think it depends on the situation and you seem to be in the right. My boyfriend never gets mad at me for leaving so I should probably consider his needs more
This is an extremely important subject, there are many of us who have suffered these kinds of abuse, and it validates our experiences. Thanks so much Dr. Grande.
I agree. Dr Grande's description is more more accurate than the simplistic explanations of the pop therapist who, tho accomplished and offers much insight, insists that the recipient (or spouse) of the narcisistic abuse must always have a condition of codependency or lack healthy self love. A darn good person, as I think Dr Grande explains, might not have clear evidence of the spouse having NPD. The personality traits of insidious abusive self- centeredness can show up later at some point in a relationship after a loving healthier spouse has made concession and demonstrated tolerance for human faults, saying, "No one is perfect. I accept the good with the flaws. After all, that's what mature love does." The spouse attempts to sometimes heroically rise above the faults to overlook, not lie about, but confront to no avail, and then choose to tolerate without resentment, the withholding shallow insensitive spouse. Especially if the NPD is good at fake apologies, fake attempts at improvement, goes to marriage counseling that utilizes the better aspects of coaching modalities, etc. The soulfulness that once appeared real can become apparently unreal, fake, an act of manipulation. I think Dr Grande is more precise in describing the NPD's shrewdness. Rosenberg's statements about the spouse always being codependent or even addicted to the NPD from what I understand, is too simple. However, every recipient of NPD abuse can to a lesser or greater degree benefit, I'd think from reflecting on healthy self care, practicing it, and healing from the damage that's been done as a result of the neglect, lying, and manipulations such as triangulating and / or tricking as in setting up or on the spot "gasligjting" types of avoiding truth telling, or healthy risk taking, or avoiding vulnerability. Authentically-fake, immature, people who have symptoms of pathological lying and devious behavior are hard to treat as their default behaviors kick-in under little to moderate stress. So the work of counseling in earlier days can be thrown off, ignored, and insidious selfishness can take over all too easily. These behaviors can be, imo, elaborate and confusing for a genuine person. Genuine people would require some skill in clinical psychology and forensics to accurately identify the elaborate web the NPD creates. Children sadly can learn to treat others in such a manner, or might identify with the non-victim--heroic type parent and struggle to realize that NPD is an actual "thing." After learning however, breaking away can be very difficult to do. But saving one's own soul can be a good enough reason, an heroic reason to leave and realize that to stay is to participate in a lie. When you understand that you've been dancing with the devil and exposed to all sorts of immorality, save your soul and those of your children Id say. That's if the patterns are repetative and do not tespond well to professional treatment. And by that time, the healthier spouse will have injuries that will require new and extensive help to heal because it's as if one's mind has been rewired to some extent, emotions very harmed, and even mild to complex PTSD has been sustained. The extreme dangers on either ends are taking too much responsibility with guilt ridden shame, or the lack of not looking at one's own behavior and readjusting to function with new insight, wise discernment, and forgiveness of self and the other person without allowing a repeat performance in yet another relatiinship. Better boundary setting can be a skill if that's lacking. One's sanity can feel threatened by living with a pathological liar over time.
Deana Burnham - Great Post. I always felt a little uneasy with R Rosenberg. I do like Thrive After Abuse, she is very knowledgeable and I don’t get any feeling of unease watching her videos.
Oh my gosh!! I can’t tell you how many times I’ve told my husband that I would be happy if he would just treat me *LIKE A STRANGER!!* Wow. I had no idea...
@@lianatrombley6400 I know exactly what you’re talking about! People who meet my husband think he is as sweet as candy. I wish he would treat me that way. Our 49th anniversary is coming up. I wish I would have had the guts to leave him a long time ago. Our son died suddenly last year, (Covid) and my husband would yell at me whenever I would start crying. He said he couldn’t handle my crying. He even lied to, and manipulated the ER doctor in order to have me committed to a mental institution the day after my son died! I was able to get myself out two days later because they had no reason to keep me there-i wasn’t suicidal, I was just very, very sad. I can’t handle him being so heartless and mean. I feel stuck because I have mobility problems, and I can’t live on my own. Which is why I am always so depressed. And, ever since my precious son died, I have wanted to join him. He was the brightest light in my life. If you’re still reading this, thank you. I guess I just really needed to tell someone all of that. Thank you for “listening”.
My mom is 💯 the emotional starvation. There was no second gear, she was not being manipulative. I learned to be emotionally independent early, to give up on getting any kind of positive attention, and to not ask for help ( negative attention).
Same. By the time I was ~8, I gave up trying to connect with my mom. It felt like she wasn't interested in having reasonable dialogue and everything was her way or the highway. I sought validation inwardly or from other adults. I was home alone often from the age of 5. moved out on my own at 15, and learned how to be independent from an early age. I struggle with asking people for help and prefer doing as much as I can myself. My narcissist ex-GF was the opposite. She went to private school and was home schooled. Her mom micromanaged her and was overly protective. My ex was in "crises" often and constantly texted family and friends to help her out for basic things that she should either already know as an adult or could Google very easily. She even bragged about her weaponized incompetence and was very dependent on many people to help her.
