The TRUTH about the FALCHION and MESSER, part 2: What's the difference? 

Also the Falchion does triple damage against dragons.

I do like the term "Medieval Backsword" James Elmslie proposes for both Falchions and Messers. Looking at Backswords from the Renaissance period we do see how they evolved from Falchions and Messers. Mostly the difference lies in the extra protection around the hand. Excellent video Shad! My regards and thanks to James as well for this enlightening info!

Oh! Scratch that. Call all of those GREATKNIVES

So the difference is that you can "end them rightly" with Falchions more that you can do with Messers......

Singlesword rolls off the tongue nicely.

"Chopper" - the name should reflect the primary function.

Blade sword seems, I dunno, off. It's a bit ambiguous. Single Sword (for single edge) is immediately descriptive and distinct.

im thinking Mechion or Falsser

Front Sword, and Common Sword are my favorites. They're simple and get the job done. Also I never thought that the word blade had to do with cutting. Like, a rapier has a blade, a thrust oriented blade.

How about knife-sword? I think it encompasses them perhaps better

"Blade sword" sounds a bit redundant though, since swords are already defined as a bladed weapon.

I suggest calling it a "Lopsword", "lop" referring to the design being both asymmetrical (lop-sided) and focused on cutting (lopping). Anyway, I'm particularly excited about the rest of this series, thank you both!

But the Messer is no sword, it's a knife!

Just imagine this video in german:" if its build like a knife then its a Knife" :D

There actually is a common name for these single edged weapons in Czech, that has existed for centuries and to this day still refers to single edged medieval weapons - tesák. The word was later adopted as "dussack" into German and I believe into English as well, though it seems that most people imagine "dussack" either as a period wooden training piece or a specific type of these weapons (the one with D-guard made of one piece of metal with hilt and blade, which actually is not really a type, just pretty much a single find that became famous through reenactors). They were very popular and common here in Czech lands. There's an excellent archeological PhD thesis written about them, by Petr Žákovský.

All these years with my love of bladed weapons, and still learning. You finally taught me definitively what a Tang even is (beyond a disgusting orange powered beverage created for the NASA space program) and I now know exactly what they mean by the term "Full Tang" when describing a bladed weapon/tool. Thank you.

Thank you for this video series! I am very interested in the subject matter and really appreciate your collaboration with such a dedicated expert! Additionally, I much prefer the term medieval backsword! #teambacksword

already can't wait for part 3

I think we should call them choppy-chops. Looking forward to the next video.

I was watching the video and took a guess at saying it was the hilt construction, and I was right! I celebrated. Thanks for the great content, Shad. Cheers.

brilliant video series!

Nicely done, shad.

Excellent video! I did actually know how messers were defined before, but only because of Skall's discussions on his channel. I was not aware that a falchion covers the same blade types, however. 'Context' is trademarked by Matt Easton :) As a mathematician, I propose 'achiral sword,' which means 'not identical under mirror images.' Because it has one edge only, it is not the same in the mirror. I suspect, however, that this name will not catch on...

I GOT IT: since we're have arming swords, long swords, and Great swords, so they don't need to be called this, why don't we call falchions and messers BROAD SWORDS!!!!! you know, since one side is broad

wow. subbed :) Brilliant execution

There's certainly a functional difference between the sword hilt and the knife hilt. The sword hilt puts more weight below the hand in the pommel, counter-balancing the weight of the blade. This is why the blade profiles exclusive to the falchion are the cleaver-types with the most mass towards the end of the sword. These require a sword hilt with a large pommel to balance the weight at the other end of the weapon.

thank you for staying strong!

I think the terms Falchion and Messer are here to stay. Sorry Shad, but Bladesword will never catch on. Also, using the term backsword to describe weapons older than 17th and 18 century backswords would be confusing as hell.

Learned a lot. Thanks.

God, perfect timing for this series. im getting my first falchion tomorrow, the windlass hattin falchion. Must be a glitch in the matrix...

That medieval painting - in western Georgia we have had something very similar shaped tool but used for chopping small branches, kind of mixture of machete and an axe - shorter than machete with a long handle for two arms, with a thick blade to sustain wood chopping, and a bit of a curve at the end to help "grapping" what it should have chopped (sharp side being inside of the curve). Don't know the name of that tool.. Watched documentary a while ago, turns out it was quite popular up until soviet times, and it's still is used here and there in the countryside. Maybe that tool was popular in the eastern (Europe) world?

But if the tang goes all the way through the pommel how can I unscrew it to end him rightly!?

The medieval back sword is also known as a "Kilmister" named after Lemmy who was known to brandish one in the mid 60s. Of course he later gave it up and turned to Bass (primarily the Rickenbacker 4001) and has been cemented as the legend that started Motörhead. Fortunately as a result the death rate in the UK dropped by half. Just a fun alternative fact from me, enjoy!

Well shad i found it a Bit Funny that the Handel construktion on the messer was such a surprise to you because messer is a Vary simple german word that litilary translates to knife (also i Love your german pronounciation you have messer and Solingen pritty well down) ps. I know thus because i am german so greetings from Vary far away

I ASSUMED the difference between them, glad to know i assumed correctly.

Shad do a video explaining how the flamberge blade is made.

Hey Shad! What about "falchion" and "messer falchion". The first one is already a succesful identifying name and is, to my knowledge, historical. The main difference as you said is the hilt. The messer has a knife hilt. So it's basically a falchion with a knife hilt. A "knife-like falchion", or "messer falchion".

There is a Lego Customizors called Brick Warrior that creates some amazing historical weapons, including the falchion. You should check them out.

1:40 Ah my friend the Venn Diagram has returned from my 3rd grade education to continue to educate

Remember that video you made about the crossing point between Longswords and Greatswords? I thought of two names: Great Longsword and Bigsword

@Shad, There's already a word to described a single bladded curved sword designed for cutting. I think the best term would just be the "Medieval Saber" although I know the saber developed independently.

Single-Edged Sword

I do quite prefer the term medieval back sword. It invokes an idea of the profile well enough while also referencing the time period these types of swords were used.

I agree with the back sword comment as these single edge arms do have a back side to them as the other double edge weapons do not. you can spin them around with your eyes closed and then not have any idea of which edge is which.

The term that I like would be Wedge sword, because the primary blade cross section is a wedge. This also allows a differentiation between a backsword, a Saber, and the Messer and Falchion, Because those were from a different time period and were a narrowing of this class for a single use. Also Wedge Sword still sounds good with no other confusion.

I say we call these swords “cleavers”. Describes what they’re good at and sounds cooler than the other names (imho).

In Italian we call them "Mezza spada", half-sword, but it is my understanding that in english "half-sword" indicates some techniques were you grab a longsword or greatsword above the hilt.

it's interesting that in HEMA the messer is considered a different weapon from the falchion, and is usually drilled with different techniques.

Shad, now that you've looked into sword dynamics more -- and knowing that the mass distribution of the handle, especially the pommel -- can significantly change the pivot points and harmonic nodes of the sword, are you still certain that they are "functionally identical"? Have you compared the agility charts of 'identical' bladed messers and falchions? It could be possible that they are in fact a bit different in agility and therefore usage. I think actually performing such measurements on two 'identical' messers/falchions would be very interesting.

ever seen an example of a falchion with common beveled disc pommel but also featuring a nagel or a knuckle bow? i would like that combo better esthetically.

Cleaver sword, sword cleaver, arming cleaver, war knife, great knife, war cleaver, hache sword, single sword, arming sabre, euro scimitar , broad sabre I used to call them "arming hanger" because of a particular archers version which bore resemblance to hanger "swords" of the napoleons can era

I think I like the term hack sword because it's the one which sounds the least weird since there is already something called a hacksaw which makes the new term sound better

The Messer is just the Medieval version of a ban-compliant black rifle. In Medieval Germany, many areas banned the lower classes from carrying swords. But they allowed knives. It was, in effect, an "assault weapons ban". The Messer became popular because legally it was a knife, since it lacked the features used to identify a blade as a sword (or, in modern parlance, "assault weapon"), while still functioning as one.

BOI CAN'T WAIT FOR THEM 3D MODELS!

i want to say i love the idea of a sword type called blade sword or just blade for short :D it makes alot more sense

Here is a like, comment, and full watch for engagement.

I'd suggest something along the lines of "Einhauer Sword". Ein for One, Hauer for Slasher. Of course, Hauer is a flawed term on it's own, as it can be translated to tusk, but i feel like a name that defines it's main feature, being a sword with which you slash in only one direction, or with only one side of the blade. Also, because of the somewhat peculiar tips of the different blades of the more falchion side of this sub-class, i think tusk would actually be quite an amusing translation error, as tusks can take all kinds of weird shapes and sizes. :)

Hello Shad, im sure i saw some Two Handed, or better "One-and-half" handet Messers? And how mutch i discovered till yet, i didnt saw any, Two or more likely"One-and-a-half" handet Falchions. What is youre Info about that?

i saw your note there... isn't backsword already the catchall term for these sorts of blades?

Can you make a video that goes more in depth over pummel's on the messer? If it is a full tang it seems like the pummel would have to be made into the tang

I prefer 'cleaving sword' as an appelation. The 'known' (considered) function of a messer/falchion was as a destructive weapon, with the tip heavy weight lending swinging attacks with large amounts of momentum creationg a velocity which, if the various layers of armour weren't cut through, the likelehood of concussive damage reverberating to the skeletal structure would be higher than that resulting from a 'traditional' one (or more) handed sword. And, although most of these sword shapes would lend themselves well to thrusting motions, the cleave would cause more general casualties, and even be a swiss army knife of the med. Cleaving sword it is, then! haha

Question Shad: did any falchions have the knuckle nails? or as they are called in german "nagel".

Thinking about it from an engineering stand point, I feel that there may be a significant advantage to the messer hilt over the falchion hilt, that being strength. With how thin the cross sections of these swords are, a full tang would provide a significant strength advantage over the narrow tang allowing a messer to be more durable than a comparable falchion. The weakest point on a falchion is right where the blade ends and is narrowed into the tang. If the falchion were to break apart that would be where it would do so. The full tang of the messer would have strengthened that weak point, making them a stronger more durable weapon than the falchion.

I think the best name for these swords is Edge Sword. It's one syllable, and descibes how the single EDGE is used. If you think about it, it fits quite well.

i like the idea of calling them medieval backsword / early backsword, it fits well. But i have always referred to both as a type of " Long Knife" ( which yes, comes from the messer) so the Messer/ langes messer/grobes messer and kriegmesser are all "long knife" types that are mounted as a knife, where as the Falchion is a "long knife" mounted as a sword. i've always referred to them as this bc, like a basic knife, their role is as a cutting implement *almost* exclusively. however refering to them as long knives only really works outside german speaking areas, as im pretty sure Langes Messer actually translates to "long knife".

This rivals Ian McCollumn's unabashed love and spotlight on Bergmann pistols.

Messer translates from German as......KNIFE So the stories go the messer was a response to laws banning the carrying of swords. Hence the handle, single edge, and broad blade. You could argue that a messer is a big knife or cutting tool. Ban swords in an era without viable firearms and don't be shocked when everyone starts finding a reason to carry a machete analog like the Messer.

Falchions are my favorite type of sword, specifically the ones with the blade shape shown most predominately in this video. The reason for this is because when I was really young, I got a wooden falchion that I simply liked a lot. Only, after watching this video, I now realize that my wooden sword isn't a falchion at all, it's a messer. CHILDHOOD RUINED. Not really, though. :P

I completely agree with this

I posted on another of your videos, I think the design of the falchion with the strong spine was meant for blocking. Perhaps it was a civilian legal loophole being "just a big knife". But civilians didn't get about in armour, carrying shields. So you'd want a sword that could do defence as well.

Are there any examples of fully double-edged messers? So a standard arming sword with a messer hilt/handle. Also I got to give my support for medieval backsword.

The messer looks like it have a way more sturdy construction, it may not see much of difference in first glance but after a long campaign after many battles under many different weathers you can see the difference

I like the 'back sword' descriptor idea, but at the same time since the differences are in the time period and handle, why not call them 'front sword' so as to reference each other? Just a thought

which hilt/tang is more durable? the messer tang it wider does that make it more durable (less likely to bend or break)? if so we by not make other swords (I.e. arming, bastatd, or long/great swords) with a messer/knife style hilt/tang? the last thing I would want to happen in battle would be my expensive weapon to fall apart after taking a beating from another sword, other weapon, or should.

I propose the name "shard sword" or something that gives an imagery of randomized broken tip design.

I wish you could find a way to reduce the echo in your throne room, it makes your voice sound harsh, enough to aggravate the mild headache I have.

Very nice. Now do Sabre, Scimitar, Cutlass and Kopis, Yatagan, Falcata and rapier, estoc. Then start doing the polearms.

Darksouls classes them under curved swords is this whel good or bad i know it is not 100% correct but is it a good term? Please reply

I don't understand. Wouldn't the pommel on the falcion make it handle more like a sword. Where the messer would be completely blade heavy? Therefore making them perform different?

It's actually hard to follow as a french guy cause in french, backswords are called "sabre" (saber) while in english, backswords are a type of saber type weapons. In french we just don't have that many name. Like backswords were cavalery weapon and in french, they're called "sabre de cavalerie" (cavalery saber) and thats it

I read a lot of translated Chinese web novels. As you know, the two main sword types of Chinese swords are jian, or double-edged straight swords (similar to European long swords and arming swords), and dao, or single-edged curved swords (like sabres and falchions). The convention among translators of these webnovels is to call the jian "swords" and to call the dao "blades". I know that technically this is wrong, as both jian and dao are swords, and blade refers only to a part of the sword, but just like the same sword having multiple different names, like great sword, claymore, flamberge, etc, even if the specific word is technically incorrect, the correct meaning is being communicated. Readers immediately know when they read "blade", that the character is wielding a dao and not a jian, and can therefore picture the swordsman's fighting style and his weapon's appearance. Interestingly, this also fits with your choice of "bladed swords" to describe falchions and messers, which are also single-edged curved swords. I personally also think of single-edged curved swords in general as "blades" or "sabres", though when I think sabre I think more specifically of a narrower, fully curved sword like a katana, rather than a broad, straighter sword like most falchions. Another group term that I feel would be appropriate for falchions/messers as an alternative to "bladed swords", would be "curved swords".

I always called it a backsword. Reason is, when looking up the majority of single edged swords, the cutlass, the saber etc. it's decribed as a backsword.

I like the terms Wide Sword and Single Sword

why not brave sword?(for the falchion because it was common among footsoldiers and usually those are in thw most dangerous position in a battlefield I believe)

The negal makes the messer more dynamic in fighting than a falchion. The point on my messer is fairly nasty btw, also many messers were sharp on the first 3/4 of the backside.

What about heavy sword? It uses axe like arm motion and would appear a heavier style to a casual onlooker. I really like Back sword over blade sword.

In the game kingdom come deliverance, these weapons are categorized as ”hunting swords”. They are swords that were used to finish of wounded game. Maybe thats a better term for them? Even though they might not have been ONLY used for hunting i think that that term works.

I like medieval saber as the term. Saber is always used for single edged swords

I wonder how sabers fit in. what distinguishes these from a saber?

but shad, what about the hand shock? what about the nail/negal?

I was thinking, "Why not call it a spine sword or spined sword?" Then he says it is a precursor to the back sword of the renaissance. Never mind. Carry on.

Why not just expand the term back sword to include earlier single edge blades or to include single edged blades in general? The back swords of the 17th and 18th century could be referred to as swept back swords. Although the swept handle is not the area of emphasis therefore I don't think the characteristic should be integral to the term back sword; as the feature corresponds to the item. This being said there would also be migration period back swords.

I'm more inclined to go with the backsword term. Bladesword seems redundant within itself since what is a sword without a blade? An edgesword, I could get behind, but again, most sword types have an edge. How about a wedgesword since it implies the shape of the blade?

Hey. I would love to see you do a video on the trauma caused by a sword on what would actually cause on a human body (no real images haha) though 3d images might really help

To me, the falchion always looked like someone tried to make a scimitar with an arming sword hilt. I really love backswords w/ false edges tho

Alternate video title, "Swords 122: Hilt Construction and Blade Profiles".

I previously thought falchion was just a single sword and messer is a whole weapon category since one handed and two handed messers exist.

I propose "Great knives", or "knife-swords" because they have the same purpose and functionality as a knife, but longer. Not "long knife" because this would be for single edge long daggers. Also, messer means knife, in german.

The name for a medieval single edged sword is "Krummschwert" wich translates to "curved sword" but applies to all single edged swords or the Messer and Falchion type since they are more likely to be somewhat curved. However it also applies to a range of medieval sabres like the type used by the Muslims at the time.

There are some funny parallels to the Katana: 1) Messer and AFAIK Katana/to/tachi mean nothing more than blade, as a single edged cutting implement. 2) Both are constructed different from European swords in that they got pins/rivets through the side of the tang 3) Both are an absolute mess name wise and split in many subcategories and even more shapes for different purposes: Bauernwehr and Tanto/Waskisashi (close combat/back-up weapon) Grossmesser and Wakisashi (one handed sword) light Kriegsmesser and Katana (longsword) big Kriegsmesser and Nodachi (greatsword for use against spears or horses) 4) all of them are preferably for cutting over stabbing by design