The TRUTH About "True" Point Guards! 

Now that my full argument on Stockton is out, please feel free to tell me to go fuck myself now that my whole take is out film channel - ru-vid.com/show-UCPqMrQmfSs0aBI5sAjHAjZgvideos New episode of the podcast - ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-y7fE4zZu7-M.html GOATmentary FULL - ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-5naB2i9UcQ4.html Follow me on twitter- twitter.com/RustyBUCKETS321 19-20 NBA Talk Playlist - ru-vid.com/group/PLLNV2let-mr8j7mLWzpJR9yxBPsTt8yuz

Rusty trying to pick a fight with all the old heads 😂

A true point guard isnt about averaging assists. It's about hockey passes, transition passes, settling up the offense and controlling the pace.

Lakers:*going to have a serious shot at winning a championship* Rudy gobert:I don’t think so

True point guard is a construct made by old heads to keep positions from evolving beyond the old roles they romanticize.

You forgot the best “TRUE” point guard ... Isiah Thomas.. who won two championships.. ik he didn’t average 10+ assists during the championship runs .. but he is still a pass first PG

Nash: terrible at defense CP3: consistent injury problems within his teams during the playoffs Kidd: Subpar supporting casts during prime Stockton: Not actually that good at passing (referencing your last video) These reasons, to me, are more valid as to why these players never won championships than the fact that true point guards don't win championships. Also, Jason Kidd's talent included being able to completely take over the tempo of an NBA basketball game. He made the Finals twice in his prime, and actually came within striking distance of beating the Tin Duncan-led Spurs in the Finals. Keep in mind, his supporting cast, for a Finals team, was garbage. Kidd could do everything on the court except score. Saying that Kidd isn't a superstar is saying that scoring is all that matters. Also also, you completely glossed over Isiah Thomas, who won 2 championships as a relatively true point guard. He averaged a combined 18 and 9 during the two championship seasons, which is very similar to the numbers Chris Paul gets. It seems pretty clear that he was the best player on that team, and he was a true point guard. And he wasn't 6'9" like Magic Johnson.

This might be a bit biased since CP3 is my favorite all time player but I feel like one of the biggest factors that kept him and most likely will keep him from winning a championship is being on teams where either he is injured in key situations or other important players on the team are too injury prone to consistently perform at their highest level Edit: sad

Hey, I'm from the future. A team won the championship with a key player avareging double-digit assists in both the regular and postseason.. The thing is, the dude's a centar 😂

How come no mention of Isiah Thomas? To me, Zeke’s prime is the best version of a true point guard with great scoring ability. He also led a team to back up back titles. #badboys

again: John Stockton and Karl Malone reached 5 Conference Finals together. Calling that "lack of success" is weird. If you go through all NBA Legends, that had less success, you will create quite a list. Now if you aproach a Titel or Bust mentality, then you are right. But still, not using the Stockalone Jazz as a blueprint to build your Championship Roster looks like a smart idea. The "double digit assists doom you" stat is quite amazing. But one should also give credit to Malone and Stockton, that they both made this insanly predictable system work. Yet, the "Ture Point Guard as your 2nd best player" approach worked better then collective tanking does these days. Just think about it... All the multiyear tanking projects so far led to 1 Finals Appearence by the Thunder and 3 Conference Finals... And there have been a lot of tanking projects, weather by choice or pure incompetence, in the NBA...

Magic had a 4 year stretch 1985-1988 averaging 22.8 PPG on 54.5% FG so he was a really good scorer so Magic really doesn’t disprove your point

I'd say Detroit's 89-90 Championship season is the closest case that we can get, if we count Magic out and consider Steph a Combo guard. Zeke was averaging 18.4 ppg (leading scorer) while dishing 9.4 dimes per game that season. Too bad Rusty doesnt mention his name at all throughout the video.

Ring culture really dictates people's views over how effective these types of players are. J Kidd, Stockton, and CP3 all had real chances to win rings but didn't because of things out of their control not because of their play style.

Just came by to say this video aged like fine wine.

Jason Kidd as the primary star had a shot to win a championship in 03 but Tim Duncan is phenomenal, and made the finals previous year but his team virtually stood no chance against a fucking prime Kobe & Shaq...i disagree wholeheartedly with your jason kidd take

As a long time Clippers fan, I knew the Lob City Clippers wouldn't win anything until Blake Griffin took the keys from CP, which of course never happened.

"In the last 30 years, not a single championship team had won that championship with a player on their roster who averaged double digit assists in the regular season." LeBron: Observing carefully

People are bringing up Zeke but not bringing up the fact that he shifted into a more score first mentality when the playoffs - more specifically, the ECF and Finals came around. Yes he was a true point guard, but he played more like the cliche "he's not a true PG" guard when he needed to win at the highest stage. That's also what made him better than everyone mentioned here.

Everybody acts like "if it doesn't win a championship every 2 years, it's not useful." I get the goal is championships, but you people are such prisoners of the moment. Like any time a team wins a championship it's "if you don't have 3 superstars on your team, you'll never win a championship." "If your 5 can't shoot 38% or better from 3 on 5+ attempts per game, good luck even getting over .500." It's this "championship caliber player/coach" crap too. Like nobody was thinking Doc Rivers can get you there. NOBODY. But once 3 superstars come together, he's a championship caliber coach ever since. Just one example that comes to mind recently. These extreme reactions are why I will never subscribe to these lousy talk shows.

Also true PG is not getting assist. It's a mind state. There are plenty of true pgs that have won rings once in a good place. Just like every scorer and big man. Magic, zeke, kidd, Archibald, oscar, cody, Your video doesnt prove true PGs are overrated. It proves that teams that over rely on any 1 player to do any 1 thing dont win.

The team assist numbers for the Jazz were ALWAYS consistently top 6 in the league throughout the 90s. Yes stockton is a playoff underperformer but you have to admit his style was working and leading to wins. The Jazz were consistently winning 50 to 60 games.

Recently watched the GOAT documentary you made. It was really well done. Hope you update the Lebron portion once he retires. Maybe you could edit it to make each player it's own vid and then the comparison part at the end it's own vid so we could watch it as a series and you could continue to add players to it as new players enter the discussion in the future. Just my two cents.

Me: Jason Kidd Rusty: *Wife Beater*

As a Steve Nash fan I think his team could have gotten one if not due to the Amare BS suspension against the spurs. Not to mention that him not being aggressive is one of D'Antonis biggest regrets and he said he really wished he made Nash score more because he was capable but not pushed to it like Magic Johnson was.

All I gotta say is Jason Kidd, magic Johnson, Rajiv rondo, tony Parker, the list goes on but good vid

So basically you're saying LeBron James isn't going to win a championship this year because he's essentially playing Point Guard full time averaging 10 assists ?🤔

Moral of the Story: To win a championship, your team needs to be versatile so defenses can’t cheat against your offense.

The main takeaways I have are: - A true point guard is a good player to have, but if he is the main guy, teams would falter since everyone would focus on him. - A diverse lineup that have multiple people that can make plays and create their own shot when needed is the best possible team to have, making team assists a necessary asset.

The Celtics would’ve won more if they had gotten together like 2 years sooner

Chauncey Billups, Parker, Thomas, Lowry are all true point guards who won rings... its not about the assist average that makes you a true point guard cause the role of the point guard is not to average 10 assist but to run the offense the right way.

Rajon Rondo is the definition of a "true point" guard. He played a pivotal role in the Celtics 08 team. Wrong again...

lebron james did won this year averaging 10.7 assists jiji. I know this was made a year ago, but just wanted to point it out. Lebrons such a talent

Oh hell no rusty, acting like Chris Paul wasn’t about to drop Gsw In game 7 of the western conference finals

lol ive been saying forever that if one player averages 10+ assists on your team something is wrong + individual assists are the most overrated stat in the nba

Isaiah "Zeke" Thomas won 2 rings with Pistons. Ervin "Magic" Johnson won multiple rings.

This feels like a First Take Debate, everything is super circumstantial

So what about scoring guards like Allen Iverson, Damian Lillard, James Harden, Russell Westbrook, and Derrick Rose who played the one and scored the ball and never won a chip. This angle is misconstrued. Jason Kidd made finals appearances while him running an offense in the nets days. Only one person in that scoring guard list, in which each of them had seasons averaging more points than Kidd, ever made a finals. You could take this angle on any type of guard. Why? Because point guards dont win championships in this era. Steph is an outlier and even if you use steph. Their are more cases in the last decade of wing/fowards being the focal points of sucess than pgs. This isnt a “true pg” thing. Its just a pg thing.

gotta love the recommendations after cp3 is now going to the finals

I can smell a good take from miles away and my nose brought me to this video I appreciate your Content Rusty.

Lol, this guy said you can’t win a championship with a player averaging 10+ assist. Nikola Jokic took that personally.

Who's here after CP3 made the finals

Jason Kidd still led all players in the 2011 Playoffs in Assists, Steals, and Three-Pointers made, at 38yo. So he might have been past his prime, but he was still a big part of them winning it all. Iverson always gets credit for carrying the Sixers to the Finals, but Kidd did the same thing in back to back seasons, and the Nets teams Kidd carried there were arguably worse than the Iverson Sixers. Stephon Marbury was an All Star with Nets in 2001 before being traded to the Suns in exchange for Kidd in the summer of 2001, and Marbury was NOT a "true PG". The Nets won 26 games that season with Marbury. Kidd took that same Nets Roster, and he led them to 52 wins and a Finals appearance in 2002 and 2003! Look at who Kidd played most of his career games with, until he got to Dallas he never played with another truly great player, but once teamed up with Dirk, even a past his prime Kidd was able to finally help the Mavs get over the hump within 3 seasons, something Nash couldn't do with Dirk even in their more prime years. CP3 was also surrounded by great talent for most of his career, and he always wilted. Stockton was a great stat compiler, but he played 18 seasons next to the 3rd leading scorer in NBA history, somebody in that duo was not playing up to their stats. What about Magic Johnson? Isn't he a true PG? Also Kidd could've pulled a Durant and signed with the Spurs right after he lost to them in the Finals, and he could've coasted to at least a few championships, which also would've destroyed your narrative against his play style.

True point guards with championships: Zeke Rondo Billups Kidd Magic Parker Cousey Payton Frazier

When you define “a true point guard” to suit your purposes it is easy to create a flawed argument on that basis. Just for reference here is a list of what I would consider true point guards who have won championships in their career: Bob Cousy (x6), Oscar Roberson, Magic Johnson (x5). Norm Nixon (x2), Maurice Cheeks, Isiah Thomas (x2), Rajon Rondo (x2), Jason Kidd and Gary Payton. Six of the top 10 in career assists have won rings.

10:47 Kobe fans aggressively pounding their chests

Just rewatched this after watching your top 50 all time video. This may be my favorite video of yours ever. Such an interesting idea that no one else is really talking about. Thanks for the great content rusty!

Magic Johnson has 5 rings. And John Stockton is more of the most underrated player. Because nobody rates him high.

I loved this video. I was very skeptical coming into it, as I have been a fan of true point guards. But personally I think the main and best argument I heard against them, was the predictability of the offense. I think of most great teams, they had many ways of how to beat you. The Bulls probably the exception, but they had Jordan. The 80's Lakers and Celtics had many scoring options and different ways to score. The bad boy Pistons had different dimensions. The Spurs had so many ways to hurt you. Probably the Shaq and Kobe Lakers were a little predictable too, but you are talking about 2 all time greats. Again Awesome video and you have managed to make me see the game in a different light.

Lebron averaged 10.2 APG this season. Finals MVP.

Your video production values have gotten so much better since 3 years ago, but this is still really good! I hate John Stockton

I think this take is unfair. Most of those point guards you mentioned either got unlucky with team injuries or had a bad supporting cast. The last one ran into MJ in the finals.

The spurs, Warriors, Cavs, and Raptors all had true point guards when they won, and they account for every single championship since 2014...

Tony Parker?

Only reason a pass first point guard should be getting ridiculous assist numbers is because his job is managing and facilitating a big 3 or big 3esque force. If your constantly leaning on that playmaking ability of one player it makes things one dimensional. Magic always had a big 3 esque force, with Kareem being the true big force on the team who could always score in a jam, but also feeding guys like James worthy, Jamaal Wilkes, Norm Nixon, and Byron Scott.

CP3 would’ve been able to break the trend if it weren’t for his damn hamstring.

Wait isaiah thomas wasn't mentioned. He was the leader of 2 championship teams

kyle lowry a true pg?

I think a better descriptor would be if your best player is your pg your team will struggle to win a championship.

True PG is someone who can both pass and shoot the long range, pass-heavy pg is not true pg imo

The best teams simply have multiple ball handlers usually. Lots of ball movement. If one guy is doing everything it's probably because the other guys aren't very good.

This is the sequel of the last vid Stockton vid and true pg vid is the spin-offs of TheNBAStoryteller ‘s video

You’re videos are the best on RU-vid. Simply because you are no bs and throughly explain yourself

Magic Johnson once started at center in the finals, so he probably shouldn't count as a "true" point guard

Thanks Rusty for giving us some form of basketball content!

Great video, but you forgot to talk about how most of those players were assist hunting. Such as rondo slowing down the celtics offense because he wanted to get the assist. Cp3 not taking over a game because he needed to pass, etc.

The disrespect of not mentioning Isiah Thomas....for shame

You're not giving kidd enough credit ..I agree with alot of your points on this. "You'll never win a championship if your best/toughest player is 5'10" - Charles Barkley

I mean tbf in the case of CP3 he has shown that in the playoffs he can elevate his game as demonstrated in the 2015 series vs the spurs the reason that he didn’t win was due to injuries and bad luck

isiah thomas won two chips with averaging double digit assists

Rondo in his younger Celtics years was really good at attacking retreating defenses and finishing. His injury really effected his athleticism.

0:10 using the word “proof” pretty liberally there. It was more like an extremely subjective video of mostly opinions and a small amount of skewed stats.

Plenty of value in a point guard who gets all his teammates involved the 1st 3 quarters and takes over in crunch time during the 4th quarter

Magic wasn't a true PG lol, more a freak of nature who excelled at passing

I loved the vid but I feel like Jason kidds prime was wasted by the nets as the best player he had were Kenyon Martin and a raw Richard Jefferson. I don’t think it is particularly fair to blame his true point guard style on him not having a ring in his prime.

You should do a Magic Johnson vs Larry bird video😁!

Jordan>Stockton Kobe>Iverson LeBron>Curry Bird>Isiah Shaq>Kidd Russell>Big O Wilt>West Kareem>Frazier Hakeem>Payton Durant>CP3 Duncan>Nash Giannis>Harden Kawhi>Westbrook Point Guards are a vital aspect to the game. But more often than not there is a Wing/Forward/Big Man that is way more valuable during their era. Height and size will always grant a huge advantage when it comes to being a Super Star and winning Championships. Why do you think a giant man like Magic Johnson is universally seen as the GOAT of point guards?….

Look, I really like most of your videos, but I think this video is just wrong. You named Stockton, Nash, CP3, and Kidd as “true” PGs who never won as integral pieces. That’s true, but it’s severely lacking in context. I’ll break down why that’s the case for each of them: Stockton: The Karl Malone/John Stockton Jazz took years to figure it out. They were too young and inexperienced in the early-90s, choked in the mid-90s, and when they finally figured it out they were beaten by Jordan. For the record, I believe Jordan pushed off before the shot that won game 6, and I wholeheartedly believe the Jazz would’ve won game 7. Nash: this man is straight up cursed. The Suns peaked at the same time as the Spurs, and every loss has context. Well, mainly the same context: injuries, or (in one particular case) a bullshit suspension after an egregious foul, in a series where the Suns would’ve won. And then Kobe came back with a mother fucking vengeance. CP3: Do not even TRY to blame him for his playoff failings. Barring injuries, he was the only one giving the opponents trouble. Kidd: When would he have won? Against the Kobe-Shaq Lakers? Against the Spurs who beat the Kobe-Shaq Lakers IN SIX? Or against one of the greatest defensive teams OF ALL TIME. If Jordan had been called for a foul in ‘98 at the end of the game, Stockton would no longer fit your argument. If the ref didn’t give Amare a suspension for reacting reasonably to a hard foul (arguably a tech) against his best teammate, Nash wouldn’t fit your list. ... Kidd just got unlucky that the Pistons figured it out and that VC is the laziest transcendent talent of all time

Great video. Ive always thought this, and its something that is controversial. People love the idea of the unselfish true point guard, but its typically scoring guards that can pass that actually have the most success.

CP3 almost won while passed his prime while carrying the load against the best version of the Warriors. Stop playing

Really interesting, never thought of this! Some good bball strategy as well.

Stockton was so much better than Nash. Forget the steals and his defense still puts him ahead. If you don't think Stockton was a good defender, ask literally every player who ever played against him.

Didn't Kidd go to the finals on the nets?

Great video, I've always felt this way. These pgs are just too predictable and when the game is on the line they're still looking to pass when the team needs points from them. It's kinda like how you can't just play inside out from the post anymore. Very predictable styles of play, which is easy for the defense to prepare for.

What about Isaiah Thomas ?

Cp3 is a great true point guard because he is also a good scorer so he can get assists of his threat of being a scorer.

True point guards are as old and outdated as the flip phone

8:19 seconds yay now we finally agree on something , yes players no mater what position you call them need to be more than a single role and have the tools to contribute both in scoring and passing other wise they become a hinderance. so far your making a case for John Stockton being flat out awesome and some the others not so.

“The wife beater” 😂💀

As a Thunder fan seeing CP3 in the thumbnail just reminds me that I probably won’t get to see how this magical Thunder season ends😭😞

Bro watch out u just hit my top 2 nba you tubers Dom got that 1. Spot on lock tho

True point guard Rajon Rondo won a ring twice. One in his prime with the Celtics and one with Lakers. Even in his old age and out of his prime time, he came in on fire to boost the Lakers to win in 2020.

You’re VERY wrong about Jason Kidd. He led the Nets to two straight finals. Only reason he didn’t win was he ran into two all time great dynasties!

this video makes a good point and something that I think about a lot- the multiplicative value of being a scoring and passing threat. The more situations in which a player is a threat both to score and to make a high-leverage pass, the harder of a problem they are. That's why Jokic is the hardest problem to solve today. Great scorers who don't pass and great passers who don't score are somewhat fool's gold, for the reasons you state

dislike for calling JKidd a wife beater

I always considered Chauncey Billups a true point guard

Damn two vids

Great vid. Agreed. It's just about being a good "player" period...

So lebron is in a system that helps him get assists?

Trading Stephon Marbury, a PG who "went for it" to use your description, for Jason Kidd in 2001 instantly elevated the bottom-of-the-league Nets to a double finalist with the second best player on the team being Kenyon Martin. The rest? Keith Van Horn, Kerry Kittles, basically no one who will be remembered by anyone who wasn't watching basketball back then. In 2003-2004 the Suns had 29 wins, which increased to 62 next season with the acquisition of Nash instead of...yeah, you guessed it. Stephon Marbury. The team remained a contender for several years with Amar'e Stoudemire and Shawn Marion (both good but not great players) as the next best players. When he was drafted in 2005, Chris Paul elevated the 18 win Hornets to 38 wins and had them become division champions within two years. When he left for LA in 2011, the Hornets/later Pelicans got to draft Anthony Davis next year. He may not have had great success with the Clippers (mostly not his fault-injuries were a major factor), but made them a constant presence in the playoffs and one of the most fun teams to watch when everyone was healthy. When he left, they also essentially dropped off the face of the earth until they got Kawhi and PG. Yeah, the concept of the true point guard is definitely flawed. These teams' problem was definitely relying too much on their true point guard and not not having enough talent to win a championship.