The TRUTH behind MARVEL's Pixel F***ing of VFX Artists 

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It still blows my mind how the CGI in District 9 is still virtually unmatched even today.

This isn't just Hollywood, it's the entire industry. People in post production are viewed as lackeys who should be given £1 to "just" get it done. The fact that editing was removed from the televised bit of the oscars says a lot about people's lack of understanding of how crucial it is to the production.

99% of the problems can be seeded back to poor storyboards and poor early visual animatics. A film is only ever as good as the initial direction it starts to take. The big problems always evolve from the idea it can be fixed later on when it should have been cemented by a good storyboards and breakdown of requirements for each shot. Sadly what's going on now is low paid VFX artists are having to do the impossible in zero time to meet a deadline.

As a VFX manager at MPC in 2012 our team shared the Academy Award with Rhythm & Hues for Life of Pi. They did the animals, we did the ocean and boats. I got to hold the Oscar in our office. And as a savvy self-promoting creative, I made the papers and TV news back home for my efforts. But like R&H, MPC went under as well (many years later) through the regrettable process of underbidding. A race to the bottom! Along with Scott Ross, I tried to warn everyone of this ten years ago, but here we are...

Unions are essential for VFX workers! Thank you for standing up with workers. I know many don't want to rock the boat but it's only right we speak up.

I couldn't believe that moment at the Oscars when Bill gets played off by the Jaws theme as if the shark of Hollywood was bearing down telling him to shut up after losing everything.

Good luck to the unionising VFX artists! They are such a crucial part of contemporary film-making and so pushed and exploited.

As a teenager I was just starting down the path of working in a cinema as a projectionist while I studied VFX when the cinema manager took me aside and warned me off. He basically told me the industry was abusive and I should focus on my coding skills instead. I took his advice and built my career in software development. These days its gone full circle as I do game stuff which is a bit of both. I always wonder what might have been. Videos like this make me think he gave me a good steer. This is one of the reasons young people need an opportunity to meet folks in different industries beyond a career fair or the advice of teachers etc. Thanks for making this video. I hope the situation improves in the future.

As someone who loved VFX but left (for computational photography!) after it broke my heart and soul, thank you for creating this cohesive and entertaining report. I just so happen to be a huge fan of your abandoned camera series so this was delightful to see pop up!

There was an amazing time to be a VFX artist and get paid 200k a year. It was 1991-1996 when a Silicon Graphics Indigo workstation cost 50k

Artists "love" of art creation is being used to treat them badly. You rarely see that happens in other industries. When you see the job description saying they are looking for employees that breath and live with art...etc. it means you will most likely be underpaid. Stop showing your love and passion to art creation. It needs to be presented as a boring tedious profession that require strict well trained skills. We rarely see accountants doctors lawyers dentists plumbers contractors saying they love their jobs and don't mind doing it for less, on the contrary they might actually do very little by charging high price.

VFX artist here. A union would be great and help prevent burnout, but it opens the door even wider for studios to outsource which is already a big issue when it comes to getting consistent clients.

So happy you're putting this in the spotlight!

I’m so glad that GOTG Vol. 3 looks amazing. You can tell that James didn’t overwork or rush the artists.

Great video! There are so many VFX and production companies that are defunct now. This would be a great series to go over the legacy of these companies. Brings back memories of watching TV shows like Movie Magic.

One of the few times VFX artists got compensated was when Keanu Reeves gave a portion of his salary to them on The Matrix.

5 months later, Marvel's VFX artist vote to unionize! IT'S HAPPEEEEEENIIING!!

When I heard that Marvel Avengers actors didn't wear helmets for the time-travelling scene, I thought, "wow, CGI must be bloody cheap!". And when you see the list of Indian and Chinese names at the end your realise they are farming a lot of the work out to the lowest quote, which inevitably means abroad.

I remember seeing a similar video a while earlier. I hope the VFX artists get to make art in better conditions

Thank you for creating this and bringing this to light!!

Agree. VFX isartwork! They must unite! VFX work is very underrated, but is at the end the most important part of the movie, today.

When I started in computer graphics, I had to type the location and color of pixels drawn on paper into rows of code one by one. Now I'm using Unreal Engine and AI tools on films. As things have gotten easier, they pile more expectations on us to be done in the same amount of time. I never thought I'd be looking forward to retirement, but the closer it gets the better it looks. But I'll still be messing around with images as long as I can still see and hold a mouse.

Glad someone is speaking on this. They probably think people push buttons on a computer and things happen on their own. This could be one reason most VFX is dumbed down for most project going with nano particles that come out of nowhere instead of taking the time to create something that looks and feels practical, because time is not on their side and the money is little to nothing.

I’m studying vfx for a 4 year degree. Thank you for this, I’m very worried for after my studies with the insane amount of work + little pay

alot of these problems is why pre-vis and pre-production is incredibly important and something many, many directors and studios completely overlook and film with a "fix it in post" mindset

12:14 how funny that when you say "quality production" it's fast and furious that show on screen🤣

People have been talking about unionizing for close to two decades now. Mainly due to Asian country breathing into necks of artists in the west due to cheap labor. Something no other part in he filmmaking industry has to deal with. I'd love a union but it will take a lot of time to convince everyone.

Awesome and sad at the same time, "abandoned VFX studios" is coming 😏 It's sou cool you brought it into our attention, I had no idea that it's that bad... I even had no idea, that it was not good 😞

Here's a little highlight from my design contract today "Please make it look like the side view, I like the line flows" Me: "But the camera is pushing in along the z-axis, so it's not going to look like that...it's geometrically impossible in space time "

VFX ans STUNTS: The two essential teams to films especially these days that dont get half the credit they deserve.

They should be able to sell all the assets from the movie to game creators.

I work in the production design department. We create all the front end art before it goes to VFX. For example, creating a boat set before VFX goes in and creates a "kraken" to destroy it. I'm happy to report people in my line of work are slowly starting to learn the basics of VFX, especially now that volume stages are becoming a thing. Hopefully this will result in a better understanding, easier work flow, and less stress for VFX later down the pipeline. And maybe we can help stick up for VFX when the above the line asks for something unreasonable.

I focus my thesis on "creative programming" which is shadercode, essentially computer graphics used in games and CGI. So maybe I am part of that as well.

That advert read was smooth a heck. Nicely done :)

Thanks for the insight. Knowing the process and the way of working to realize complex VFX shots, I ask myself every time I see current productions, how can this complex amount of VFX shots be managed? I also think it is always the others who collect the laurels than those who let others shine. Having ideas is one thing, but implementing them all too often requires people who don't happen.

I had no idea that Sean Gunn was the mocap artist for Rocket Racoon until now. I wonder if he got paid double, or 3/4 for being an actor and mocap artist?

When you spend days rendering something out that you’ve worked for weeks on, only realize it doesn’t really fit… sucks. I can’t imagine Disney breathing down my neck, not even knowing if a shot gets approved

Thank you John! I knew it was bad, but had no idea of the heartship of the artists. Yes, please do unionizse and stand in for your craft! 😊

Oh my god…there is SO MUCH WORK PUT INTO THIS! Kudos to those who do this work.

But isn't this proof the modern movie producers don't understand what they are actually making, And what it actually take's to get a good products

Films nowadays are nothing without vfx, yet they get so little recognition

Vfx artists need to unionise as wide as they can and have a general strike. Then they will have to listen

People honestly seem to think that to make something on a computer you press one button, the machine goes beep-boop, and then a fully formed product springs forth Athena-like. That's how VFX artists get burned out, directors get mad, viewers get half-baked crap and the executives make bank anyway. Infuriating.

as a vfx artist. its all so tiring

FINALLY a video that does the VFX world justice. So many talented people in this industry get crazy sidelined! thank you for making this video. We appreciate you!

I have worked in VFX for almost 15 years and while it has had a few high points, getting nominated for awards etc. it is not worth the mental stress. Nothing quite like working crazy hours on a project for a director or producer last minute to request a change that unravels your weeks of work.

Thank you for bringing this topic up, I really love vfx and want to make a career into this, but given how the industry works, I am scared.

When enough people to make a small city work for a single movie but only a person with an inflated ego takes the credit on the stage.

They definitely need to unionize; the studios will never do the right thing when it comes to the artistic talent that makes production possible.

I like how every labor related video across just about any profession essentially boils down to "theyre working harder than ever to make companies more profit than ever while getting paid less". What a coincidence 🧐

Exactly the same issue in Architecture, Landscape Design and Interior Design, anyone doing one-off custom design work essentially.

love listening end watching you're edits.

Really enjoyed this video you hit all the great points I was stunned when I found out VFX artists arent paid for re works that is illegal and if not definitely should be

It hasn't changed since they played the Jaws theme music over Rhythem & Hughes announcing at the 2008 Oscars that their company is going belly up. It hasn't changed since everyone changed their facebook profile pictures to a green square. We haven't unionized since then, so why would it change now? And I work in the VFX industry. Heck, even the catering that the film industry is using, is actually unionized.

So that's why avatar 2 looks so photorealistic while mcu movies look like video games.

First of all, cool video. :) -- The documentation "Hollywoods greatest Trick" is about the same topic. I'm an Lighting Artist in VFX for over 20 years. I even worked on shots you show in your video. :D One of the initial reasons for the bad treatment are the people who joined the industry between 2004-2006. Before 2004 most of us had great salary and good working conditions. But then students started a race to the bottom just to get their feet into companies. This continued until covid. Some young people even work for 80-120 bucks a day... ;) Don't forget you'll usually get hired per project. After that you have to live of savings until the next project. That maybe is a few month away. Unions: In London is AUV (part of BECTU). The case R&H is difficult. They had some serious problems with managing their pipeline.

thx for raising awareness about this

To produce, meaning getting to pre-production yes it can be multi-year, but in terms of the actual production you have very little time. only exceedingly rarely will you get a "long" preproduction (3 months+) "long" shooting (more than a month), and post (more than 5 months). Gone are the days of a year of Pre&post and a good uncompressed multi-month shooting schedule.

the problem isn't VFX. VFX is the symptom. The problem are the production companies and directors who choose what to fund, how to fund it, and how much work is exchanged for the funds.

Have a friend who is an VFX artist. These working conditions are exactly along the lines that she describes

The thing is you can do a general purpose scene and assets that hold up at any time of day. This is not what the original order was for. Shortcuts have been necessary throughout the history of VFX let alone CGI. Doing it all 100% proper all the time is NOT how this is done. Never was. It's about tailoring the corners you cut to a scene's needs.

9:00 Wow. not over 64+ hours for six months? Stereo D, mandatory 84 hours for four months, that's 12hrs for 7 days a week, plus a 2+hour in L.A. traffic driving under 20 miles distance, plus 2+ hour mandatory meal breaks. Getting home under 17 hours was a blessing. Several hours to unwind, see my wife asleep when I got home and asleep when I left that same morning I'd gotten home. NIGHTMARE!

That’s the reason i only work for commercials. We face some of the same issues, but at the end of the day, it is understood that the deadline (which is mostly arbitrary and only set by the advertising agency to look good in front of the client) does not allow for extravagant re-working. I have two of the major german vfx houses just down my street, but i'd never set foot in them. The stories i hear are just too alarming.

Power is in the studios. They should agree a base price per minute that wont get them broke and provides a fair pay to the artists, and then on top of that add extras for their perceived quality, value and experience.

As much as I would want to work in VFX once I leave school, I won’t unless these conditions see major changes. All I hear are horror stories and I have no interest in enduring that right now

The scene where Tom Cruise hangs on the plane is actually real. Therefore using Mission Impossible as b-roll is strange. It's one of the few movie series, that tries to use almost no vfx and instead doing real stunts. The amount of Tom Cruises injuries is insane.

Time to fight, unite and demand!

Terrible treatment VFX artist and companies. Thanks for highlighting.

I'm sending this to anyone that hires me for future projects.

The fact that Hollywood, who acts as the champions of morality is treating the most important aspect of blockbuster cinema (VFX artists) like slaves is disgusting. No Iron Man without RDJ? Nah, fuck RDJ. No Iron Man without VFX. None of those superhero movies would work without the VFX artists. How are they not the most powerful department in each project is beyond me.

idk, I've seen a bunch of these "don't blame the vfx artists" videos and they all seem to forget that these companies bid on the project. If the studios are asking for unreasonable things, maybe don't throw your hat into the ring. Or maybe make a bid that's realistic, instead of overpromising and ending up with a product that just makes everyone look bad.

What frustrates me the most is studios using digital VFX when they don't need to, and the end product winds up looking worse because either a) it's more technically difficult to use digital VFX, or b) they just don't give the VFX team enough time to do the shot justice. The infamous Marvel floating heads come to mind. The costume team made Tom Holland a gorgeous, wonderful practical Spider-Man suit and instead of using it, they digitally painted it out in the first and second Spidey movies, and I think they just flat out didn't use it at all in any other movies. In No Way Home, the behind the scenes footage has Tom flipping around in a grey mocap suit. Their excuse was that the Spidey suit was uncomfortable for Tom (understandable, in the first movie there's scenes of him taking sips of water through the mask's eye hole lol) and that the wrinkles and seams in the suit looked bad. But it's a lot easier to redesign a costume to be more comfortable and then paint out any seams or wrinkles than it is to have to digitally create and animate an entire suit from scratch, just from data captured from mocap. Not only did this make the scenes look really bad with floating heads, but even the scenes with the actual suit just looked unrealistic. No wrinkles, no folding, no warping of the fabric. It looked like the suit was painted on because, well, it basically was. And even though this looks fine in comics, it looks atrocious in a real movie. In The Amazing Spider-Man, they made sure his suit had ripples and billowed subtly in the breeze as he swung through the streets. Those little details make a movie truly shine visually, but the teams are both not being given time to do that, and not being allowed to do that anymore. When Tom does press tours and visits children's hospitals in his practical Spidey suit, it looks phenomenal, and I'm sad we instead got these painted on, floating heads, messes.

'Unionize' basically means that you need to strike when the order is given from above...dont see it happening for VFX

🙏Such a wonderful piece! 👊

I'm a software engineer, and everything you talk about is the same crap I deal with from clients. Same issues! I wonder how people in charge of these projects got so far away from the engineers that put it together. Many things are so specialized today that people simply have no clue what others go through. I didn't know either until watching videos like yours. Even my industry is specialized. While I've had experience with many technologies, I've focused mainly on the web, and my last 8 years have been 100% JavaScript. So I'm even more specialized than I when I first started doing game development.

Daaaang. Fantastic detailed piece. Thanks.

The CGI in The Fifth Element has held up better than CGI from movies released in the last 3 years.

This reminds me of when I did a shortfilm and the "evil lady" casts a curse and I did some dark veins around her eyes, the pupil dilating and the skin turning pale. Creating an image that makes her look like she's channeling the darkness from inside and it's draining her life force (which was literally the plot). I spent an additional day in post to get it done and finished at like 4am. Sent it through to my buddy who was dealing with the director, making jokes like "Haha dude, imagine he says it looks good but I must make the eyes look less evil, haha". Literally woke up two hours later after my power nap to a message of the director saying exactly that. I thought he was kidding, but alas, I had to change everything. Resulting in an entire re-edit and going from a 30 node tree structure in Fusion, to just a desaturation keyframe.

This is why I don't work in computer animation anymore. Like my friend that went on to work at Pixar put it after working there for 6 years, "It's just a job."

I just finished my first year in uni for VFX, u would not believe how long it takes for my 5 second comp scene to render (just for me to check and then tweak it, there was only one CG object with a photo background) Everytime I tweak things, it takes around 5-10 minutes to render, and then I repeat it until everything look alright, for just comp, it took me around 27 hours to finish. (Not to say rendering animation and objects from Maya takes a long time too, for how little there is, it takes long enough for some of us to go home, go to gym, take a shower, get dinner and come back and it sometimes would still be rendering)

They can learn on how the filmakers work with the VFX artists in Dredd. They included the VFX artist from day 1 of shooting, to editing and treat VFX artists as equals. That movie is a masterpiece.

unionizing and sticking to it makes the most sense, do nothing, stop all art work, we will see how long they hold out.

It's not just VFX folks. Practical has to jump though similar hoops as well.

CG Lead, Principal Artist, Concept Artist here. You forgot the insane percentage of people in positions which they shouldn't occupy. People who are hired based on everything else but their expertise by people who don't know the difference between 3ds Max and Maya (or that this is even a thing they should think about). A lot of people are then being told how GREAT they are where in reality they don't even know the basics of the area they are supposed to lead. I've had Art Directors going "ah, cg lighting doesn't need to be realistic, right? It can be stupid like the sun is in front of you but the light comes from the back, it all looks good anyway!" or "Why can't i have a furry cube that's bouncy and jiggly, i thought the computer is doing everything?" I am not kidding. And then that is your superior.. or the person who puts together your schedule and other arrogant and ignorant people sign that off and commend the person for the GREAT schedule and then you ask yourself why there is a lookdev task at the very beginning of it all. Before assets, before everything else.. and why 58 tasks are missing or too long or too short. Why would they talk to you and dial in the schedule when their superiors say that their schedule is amazing!! Also tools are getting more accessible, which is a nice thing! But on the downside you have LOADS AND LOADS of untalented, unproductive almost cathartic freelancers, who think they are the best of the best. Yes i am a CG Lead and Principal artist and yes i am very much at the end of my wits. It is seriously INFURIATING. I've been told i can finally get a promotion to a creative lead, which in all honesty i can do really well and have done so in the past, but no, they rather hire someone based on other aspects. Someone who doesn't even know how comp, cg and animation works and what is necessary and who has ZERO experience OR talent in the visual field. And guess who is there to support them in the background while they are being praised to the heavens for their amazing job where, basically they go over my work and say "yea that looks nice!", but have no comment about anything EVER? Even when there are clearly errors on screen? That same person fired a comp artist, because he was "toxic" and "didn't respect their opinion". Well, they just left the project for two weeks because "it became too hard", didn't tell anyone, came back on the DAY OF DELIVERY, then told the comp artist that this and that is something they want changed, comp artist said it's not possible since in 4 hours we need to deliver. Then they complained to their superiors about their opinion not being respected and the comp artist being toxic for it. And there you go, toxic and sexist comp artist who was then fired. That's your industry right now. You have no idea how frustrating, unfair and idiotic it can be, seriously. And no one gives a shit. The clients don't, so it's being signed of, so the company gets the money for a job well done, so obviously there is no problem! The client in this case isn't disney, so there is noonethere that actually makes sure that it's all nice. I guarantee you, it's the same situation at the client's side too. People who get hired for the wrong reasons and don't know what they are talking about. Or you have PMs, who will be angry at you because you fixed a thing in two hours overtime, because you made everyone aware of that but noone either said something or they went full PM mode where they would talk about it MUCH MUCH longer than it takes to fix the damn thing. "Oh no we can't let you do that we need to book time for that, you are fully booked so we have to get an external, yadayada"

Chatting? Unbelievable!! The whole film industry stand on CGI & VFX now, i think they should give the Tron move an Oscar now.

insert shots of urself look good. Great lighting, colorgrading, the texture of the hair is very cool, chocolate buttery with the deep color and shadows. Good job.

Animators also don't have a union and need one for similar reasons to VFX artists.

Award-winning author here. Yup. Almost NO ONE--especially the consumer--appreciates what goes into the creation of a robust product. No one. Myself, I outline, structure, write, develop, edit, illustrate (THERE ARE 60-100 IMAGES IN EACH BOOK), format, and do the cover designs for my series. If that sounds like "no big deal" to you, understand that I ALSO construct my website, craft all of my videos, and record VOICE-OVER (yes, that's right) for everything. Take... one... GAEDAEMN guess just how much appreciation has been cast my way. Very, very, very, VERY little. But it is what it is. Acceptance is key. And I don't have many years left on this planet. So... yeah. IT IS WHAT IT IS. 🐲✨🐲✨🐲✨

We could have had a union. But the early VFX programmers in the 90s (many from Brigham Young University in Utah) were militant Libertarians who believed in absolute meritocracy who had visions of them pulling the weight of undeserving lazy programmers and...GASP!...artists. And if you don't have a union in Hollywood, you are a powerless serf begging for exploitation. The moment of power passed as anti-union schools began to crank out VFX artists in bulk quantities around 2000. In the hierarchy of Hollywood, VFX artists are below caterers, production interns, drivers and actor's assistants thanks to those early CGI VFX "pioneers".

its absolutely insane that the people who do 99% of the work on a film get paid 1% as much as everyone else

How come multi million companies with years of experience let themselves played like this Charge company by the hour of work, if they don't see any sales profits charge them upfront for alterations, extra work hours overtime, nightshift. Pretty much quadruple cost of doing this work on short notice. Without VFX there is no big budget movie, so let them pay trough the nose

You can talk about how talented the VFX artists are, but there are many, many of them. Look at the screen-filling lists in the end crawl of every movie these days. The more names you see for any given job, the less rare the talent, and the lower the pay. And when you're able to off-shore the process, the rewards come down even more.

VFX artist have been bully for a very longtime .. so sad... I have been 23 year in this industries.. hope for a change

I do wonder, maybe we should scale back VFX... no need to make things look realistic. Just like the gaming industry, adding more realism just adds more work but very little gain.

Ok someday understand vfx artist pain nice dude

Yes!!! Unionize now!!! Make it 3 bands against the Hollywood executives!

CAN I POINT OUT ONE THING?! at 3:11 you see the actor in performance capture, then you see a cgi human skeleton, then cgi human muscles, then cig skin overlayed on top. VFX ARTIST DO NOT BUILD A ANATOMICALLY CORRECT HUMAN SKELETON UNDER CG MODELS!! Why do this show this as if its the workflow?? They even show this with creature effects. Its not a thing, its NEVER been a thing. That ANATOMICALLY CORRECT skeleton only exhists and was made for "behind the scenes footage"

A good analogy for Post Production is a Cruise ship coming into port at the end of its journey. The passengers that are on the boat have to come off with all their luggage, the new passengers come on with their luggage and the ship is resupplied. This all has to happen within a specific time frame say 3 hours. If the ship has 100 passengers to come off and 100 to come on it can do this within the time frame, no problem Now imagine a situation where 30 extra passengers and their luggage join the Cruise ship two miles from the final stop. You still have to get all the passengers off and the new passengers on and the ship resupplied but you still only have 3 hours. This is what I believe happens in Post Production now, more things just keep getting added but the deadline isn't extended The first offender for this I'm sorry to say is Peter Jackson. During the Post of The Lord of the Rings The Return of The King he was constantly adding more VFX shots to the schedule with the result that the sound team had to mix the soundtrack without completed shots - and in fact the VFX were finished last five days before the premiere. This has now become the industry standard, the belief being (I guess) that because it happened once it can happen again If we go back to the early days of CG, on Jurassic Park for instance it was so expensive Michael Kahn when he was editing (on film, not a computer) could only give ILM the exact length of film needed for the shot. Plus the early uses of CGI were experienced at VFX and could describe exactly what they wanted and they needed to again because of the expense The other issue is we are using it for way more things than we need it for. We are using it for make-up, props and costumes that it should never be used for ever. If you need a prop it should be designed, built, tested if necessary and be completed ready for an actor to hold on set

Reminds me of crunch crises that have become incredibly common in the video game industry.