China will continue its space exploration on its own without any problem, that's for sure. Whether any country will join, the benefits are for all. Nothing to lose for China here.
@Dee Bee Lol the same 1st class that will face no space station in 2026 as that iss tin can is being scrapped due to age and lack of proper maintenance.
The banks in Europe control the world. The United States is just the military arm of the banking mafia. President Roosevelt admitted this when he was alive. The shift of power is taking place because the Chinese and Russians are taking down the banking cartels biggest source of power the US reserve currency
Henry Kissinger: "To be an enemy of the US is dangerous, to be a friend is fatal." Nelson Mandela: "Why must you insist that your enemy must also be my enemy? When both my friends are fighting each other, I do not take sides." (Because they are both my friends. For if I take sides, I would already shown not to be a real friend of one or the other.)
It is good news for the world. Now that ESA is out of the way, maybe China will prioritize space cooperation with the rest of the world, especially astronaut training for the other countries of the world ignored by the US & EU, like African, ASEAN or South American countries.
Totally agree , China doesn't need Europeans or Anglo Saxon cooperation...I like to see first African in space with the help of China , south American , middle Eastern or even south Asian ...
@@Arjava. USSR let everyone who wanted on their cosmonaut program except China. also USA NASA let everyone who wanted on their cosmonaut program except China. Sad really. coz China really wanted to be in a space program since the 60s. the most willing to shell out money. Neither Soviet or NATO would let China on board.
This is definitely a piece of sad news. I too believe the Americans have a hand in this. It is understandable; the Americans are short on money, and they want the whole ESA pie to themselves. This will be a good opportunity for the Middle East and African countries.
ISS is getting long in the tooth. Each module only has a 10 year lifespan. The ISS was supposed to be retired in 2015 and deorbited that same year. A new station was suppose to be built. But funding was decreased, the Space shuttles got retired without replacement, and now the US and its partners has to keep the ISS going at increasingly high price with ever more systems failing. This is one of the reasons why Russia wanted to leave the ISS... aside from politics... they are familiar with the cost and dangers of keeping an old stations flying (remember MIR) well past its designed lifespan.
@@nickl5658 Perhaps the United States and its allies have set their sights on a space station on the moon. The only thing to see is who gets to the moon again first, the Lunar Gateway, or a lunar outpost of China (or meybe with Russia).
Disappointing and shortsighted to decline to collaborate with a space program that has accomplished so much so quickly as China’s has done. Cooperation in space can bring so much benefit and has so little downside.
@jeffreyschweizer8289 - Again, the US is on the lose-lose or win-lose (US wins but other will lose) scenario in space program. China space program is a Win-Win for everyone.
@@1313hyme You have no idea of China's space program. It is not for advancing science or technology for human kind. It is for the purpose of military and propaganda for the CCP. Why am I so sure? Because I am a Chinese and I am working for the Chinese Science of Academy now.
@@zhchbob lol, Don't the US or any other nations use technology in military? Are you that ignorant?? Don't you use paper or chips to design and make weapons? BTW way you sure don't sound like a Chinese! Who are you fooling? Yeah right CCP 🤣🤣. Stop making a fool of yourself.
The U$ keeps screwing EU. They did it through Ukrainе(now EU will buy the expensive U$ LNG and will make a lot of money for the U$ MIC) and now they doing it in the space sector. Hopefully one day EU will be able to overcome its subordinate role but I wouldn't hold my breath.
Nordstream is not a NATO plan or at least there is no evidence for that. Actually it is better for NATO not for China. China has nothing to offer to the nations that are already doing significant research and have been doing that for decades
The EU has been a fickle even an unreliable potential partner. Before the Beidou came into being China collaborated and contributed millions in Euros to be a partner of the Galileo space navigation system. Initially, it seems to have gained traction but due to the pressure of you know who, this collaboration has been scuttled (China even lost the invested money). This left such a bitter taste that China went on to build their own GPS system, the Beidou. Frankly, it was a blessing in disguise as it has superseded the Galileo in every aspect. So the non-participation is not unexpected but actually a loss for ESA. It was a privilege to be invited (China does not need your participation except out of good will and cooperation) but you see it fit to respond in this way. The silver lining to this is that other non-Western countries can now get top priority for space travel. Russia will be also a good strong partner. Short sighted indeed just like the Galileo story.
I remember reading about this as a graduate student. I believe China had already contributed over a 100 million USD towards Galileo and apart from getting funding the Europeans' idea of cooperation was to exclude China from other forms of participation. Deja vu.
@@randygraham926 it did happen! media had done a real good job in hiding these details! nonetheless if searching harder you'll be able to find it! The paticipation costed approx. 230 million euros. the GNSS project was started in 2003 but the ESA withdrew in 2005 all of sudden! no money was returned. as caunning as a fox! China had learnt their lesson from the same crook not once but twice!
TBH, a deeper dive would make it rather obvious that Europe is not fighting Russia for its own interests, but someone else's. Europe and Russia will forever (i.e. until the world is gone) be geographical neighbours. It would be much much better that neighbours get along, than otherwise. For in geo-politics there is no permanent friends, only permanent interests, esp. when there is a "friend" that has been copiously shown to be consistently proven to be inconsistent in words and deeds. That Friend is only into hegemonic interests than any true reason or values. She can fool some people all the time, or everyone at one time, but not everyone all the time. Softskills and spins do not trump the "revealing crucible" of Time's test.
The EU is loaded with US installed lowlifes that are destroying the European people! Russia offered cheap reliable energy delivered to their door! The US could not allow a German RU economic alliance. So as they did with Huawei, they just destroy what they can't compete with! China hears these sociopaths telling them, War With China by 2025. Ukraine is filled with NAZI and Corruption! Everyone knows it!
The EU is too afraid of the concequences of not obeying EEUU (e.g. Ukrain). With or without the cooperation of the EU China will do just fine, no big deal.
Sí. Correctísimo, señor Herrera. China SIEMPRE estará a la altura de sus grandes retos. China es un país fantástico. Su pueblo es único en muchos sentidos. Esta nación es ancestral, pero en serio. China es 2,000 años más antigua que el Imperio Romano. Los Romanos ya desaparecieron y los Chinos siguen vigentes como pueblo. Los Chinos han superado cantidad de broncas internas. Las más severas iniciaron en el siglo XVIII y terminaron en el siglo XX, cuando su territorio fue ocupado por 6 potencias europeas (más Japón), que la destrozaron, la corrompieron, y la envilecieron con Opio. Aún y todo, ellos sobrevivieron pese a guerras y más guerras. Apenas iniciado el siglo XX, entre los años 1911-1949 hubieron: --Revolución de Xinhai, con el fallido Golpe de Estado del nuevo Imperio ("Muera Qing Manchú. Viva el Nuevo Han"). --Segunda revolución de Xinhai. --Guerra de Unión para la protección nacional en contra de las potencias extranjeras. --Guerra de Otoño de 1927. --Las luchas internas de los "Señores de la Guerra" en China. Luego: --Protección contra el Imperio de Japón en la Segunda Guerra Mundial. --Segunda Guerra Civil China. ¡Tremendo! Después de 38 años de guerras continuas, les llegó la "Gran Hambruna" (1959-1961). El "Gran Salto Adelante", de Mao. Con una mortandad de casi 2 millones de Chinitos. Aunque la Propaganda nos ha hecho creer que se murieron de hambre 10 millones. Como si 2 millones no fuese una cantidad terrible. ¡Horrorosa! En fin. Sigo: En 1971, y según la OCDE, China ocupaba el lugar 44 de las economías mundiales. Ya para 1999, China estaba en el quinto puesto. En tan sólo tres décadas, China había logrado sacar de la pobreza a 800 millones de Chinos. Semejante hazaña se logró con TRABAJO y con DISCIPLINA. Hoy, China ocupa el segundo lugar... y esto lo consiguieron sin atacar a nadie, sin tirar un maldito cañonazo, sin Robar ni recursos ni territorios, sin invadir, y sin romperle las pelotas a sus vecinos. Con todo lo dicho, ¿acaso no es para hacerles a ellos una reverencia de reconocimiento? China es un país admirable. China pasó de la "Gran Hambruna" a súper potencia en 30 años. En seguida, puso en órbita su propia Estación Espacial, para luego poner a 6 robots avanzados en la superficie de Marte. Una proeza que se consiguió sin fastidiar a nadie. Sin meterse con nadie. ¡Ah! Pero a Occidente (USA), no le gustó nada de lo que China había logrado. Para el año 2002, se preparó una campaña de PROPAGANDA para convencernos de que en China se esclavizaba; de que se traficaba con órganos infantiles; de que no se respetaban los Derechos Humanos ni los Derechos Civiles. ¡Jáh! Sí, como no. Convencernos de que en la “Gran Hambruna” murieron de hambre 10 millones, luego que 25 millones, después que fueron 100. Como si casi 2 millones de Chinos muertos por hambre no fuera un número ¡Espantoso! La Propaganda buscaba escandalizar, pero, en las Olimpiadas de Beijín 2008, todo eso, se derrumbó por la fuerza de los Hechos Verificables. Incluso hoy, intentan convencernos de que China, muy pronto, colapsará económicamente. Pues no fue así. Veinte años después del inicio de las campañas difamatorias, vemos que China no ha parado de crecer. Su Clase Media es saludable y con movilidad en ascenso. Y en vez de irse a la baja, China repunta para ocupar el primer lugar de las Economías Mundiales. Lo dicho aquí, es una Verdad Absoluta y no Propaganda. China no ROBA ni territorios ni recursos a nadie. China no interfiere en los asuntos internos de ninguna nación. China no es ni Imperialista ni Colonialista. Mucho menos es Expansionista. China, ni siquiera en 1,000 años ha invadido a nadie en el mundo. Nunca. ¡Eso Jamás lo ha hecho! ¿Sabe usted cuántas Bases Militares tiene China fuera de su propio territorio? Ninguna. Cero. ¡Nada! China no ataca. China es un país respetuoso con todos, y es un ejemplo para todo el mundo. En cambio, Estados Unidos con apenas 250 años como nación, han “Crecido” 711 veces el tamaño de su territorio, partiendo de sus 13 colonias originales. EU tiene casi 800 Bases Militares esparcidas por todo el planeta. De esas 800, los EU tienen 93 Bases frente a China.
@@salvadorvizcarra769 Sr. Vizcaína, mil gracias por su cátedra. Nunca antes nadie lo me lo había explicado tan claro y resumido. EEUU, en su inminente caida como primera potencia mundial, está tocando los tambores de guerra contra China, que lo rebasara en poco tiempo. EEUU usará a la UE y Taiwan como carne de cañon contra China, así como lo está haciendo con Ucrania contra Rusia. Se que la serenidad y sabiduría de China prevalecerá para desactivar cualquier conflicto bélico. Saludos.
China is open for corporations, meanwhile China will continue building and moving on no matter how many partners join (or not), as sitting waiting wishing is not a way to space🎉
Good news! With ESA's ideological and political baggage, not to mention Western chauvinism and the European subservience to the US, I was worried it would slow CNSA down.
Of course it's best for humanity to exchange knowledge while reaserch and explore together. It look like the USA is holding humanity back to remain its hedgemony.
Pride got the better of the west , China is pretty humble about her achievements , the west is the one dividing the world into two not china , China has consistently held out a hand of friendship to the west like she has with most nations but the prejudices and paranoia of the west has slapped that hand away but you know what they say about pride coming before a fall ....
Perhaps this is better for China. Now, she can help friendly nations, in Space Exploration, never look back, and keep pressing forward , may our Creator, bless and protect her, and those friendly nations... 🙏☦️🇨🇳🌏🌍🌎🇨🇳☦️🙏
One day, we would see an African astronaut doing science research on CSS while their European counterparts could only watch from Earth. That could put European self-esteem into the dustbin.
Unlikely scenario. European astronauts will still be able to launch on SpaceX Starship to NASA's lunar station (the Gateway, currently in development) and future lunar base. And for that matter, future African astronauts as well. With the retirement of the ISS between 2030 and 2035, China might be the only one left doing science in low-Earth orbit, but it's mostly because NASA will have shifted their efforts to the Moon by the time the ISS is fully retired. The United states has been working in low-Earth orbit since after Apollo (1972) and now grows tired of it. Now this doesn't change my opinion on ESA not cooperating with China, I still think it's a sad thing for international cooperation in space.
@iqbang - they may not be able to watch on earth. Some of them might be homeless, like in US. Or they just won't be able to afford a TV to watch from 🌍.
At the end of the day, the EU would choose their whyte cousins over yell-oh acquaintances. After all, prejudice and whyte superior mentality still dominant.
It's too expensive because ESA has no scale on crewed resupply launches. We abandoned almost all of our capability to other countries, which is why we fly on Dragons or Soyuz… ESA managers have no ambition with regard to crewed space exploration. It's all only ever token participation.
Djbuti is where the Indian Ocean and Red Sea meet. Coming down from the Suez Canal controlled by the British... It is where Chinese navy could secure their oil imports and could blockade the canal exit if need be. Also an ideal place to launch heavier payloads to the orbit with less fuel, being closer to the equator. So no. Not so much collaboration but more like being a Chinese outpost (and Djbuti will benefit from this. An African space nation is coming!). United States has 800 official ones but it is big deal for them. If China could secure a naval base where Chinese aircraft carriers dock, it will be big trouble for U.S. Securing another port on West Africa will be a disaster because U.S. Navy cannot fight the Chinese both at Atlantic and Pacific at the same time. There is nothing to lose for China here. In fact Chinese are more experienced in manned missions than Europeans by now. With their new space station even Americans will find it hard to keep up with them know-how wise. Western world is turtling up. That can't secure their multinationals' trade at long term. They are in decline. If China won't make the same mistakes Soviets did, and keep growing for the next 50 years nothing could stop them. Nor I think the Anglosaxon power will vanish in the coming decades. They are just too well prepared and filthy rich.
Absolutely Spot--On, ... lets * DECOUPLE for Good * with JAUKUS--Bandits--nations permanently. CHINA must just focus on working with all Scientists from the RUSSIAN + SERBIAN + ASEAN + all GLOBAL SOUTH nations.
If someone understand Chinese culture and mentality, Chinese prefer to share and work things together. Not dominate, conquer and rule over everyone else. It is a tough mentality for westerners especially anglo saxon to understand and accept the fact. Look at what China is doing now is to bring and support developing countries in South East Asia, Africa, South America and Middle East to move forward and prosper together
@@kongming2005 I see it more like an alternative. Western civilization already dominates the world. So China increasing its sphere of influence with economic cooperation is a sound strategy. Otherwise they can't advance. Sanctions, confinement and isolation will cripple them. Like Russia... However it is difficult to isolate countries deeply integrated to the wold trade. Look at Russia. They only exported fossil fuels and yet sanctioning them was very costly to the EU. So I see it more like a balance of power instead of balance of terror of the Cold War. I find it useful. China is breaking the western monopoly so countries have a chance to design their future. Western strategy is to keep critical technologies like 2nm microchips to themselves. I don't think that they can stop China but they can delay them to secure their position. But if they can hurt China's international trade sanctioning them will be easier. And yet world is bigger than the West. China's greatest weakness is their authoritarian regime. Like how they oppress Uyghurs. They are an empire and party state. That will always breed dissent and ethnic, religious seperatism. Though it is difficult to be a democratic country in this western dominated world. Whenever a country tries it they inject ethnic seperatism and religious fanatism to control them. But democratic countries increase their innovation rate and tend to be more stable. Still China's authoritarian regime will cost them on the long run. Creating a better China is up to the Chinese citizens.
More chances for poorer countries and hopefully China and Russia keep sponsoring them whenever financial difficulties occurred. ESA is a rich club without a bus so let them walk onto space on their own feet.
Agree with most comments below. Anglo-Saxon dramatics have a way of interfering with cooperation in many fields, and space research is too important for nonsense. The Europeans have apparently decided to play mini-me to America in all things geopolitical and cultural, so tossing their sciences onto the bonfire of US vanity is a no-brainer for people without foresight or backbone. It saddens me to think how quickly the golden age of scientific research is coming to an end here in the West, but political correctness, lawsuits and corporate greed are nonetheless killing it. Real science is always at the mercy of ignorant forces, and always escapes, over time, to thrive again.
This is no loss to China. They will continue on their own path without any distractions, now. This is actually a good thing for China, because it will make them more independent and more capable of getting the job done by themselves. It will make them stronger in the long run.
To bad. But it is a Change of the times. How would a Europeans feels when an Taliban would step foot on the moon before an European. This is what happen you are a yes man to Uncle Sam.
Well, NASA offers the Moon and literally use European Service Module to go almost there. China offers Low Earth Orbit, something which ESA already has access to.
It's for the greater good for China to be independent and continue the development of space technology..any other EU or america's involvement might be a sabotage to the hindrance China from achieving it's goal.
Better no partner than insincere partners. China has done unbelievably well alone n shall continue to do so. Perhaps Russia, Africa, South America, Asia will benefit more as a result
The most impressive (and foretelling) of China’s space station is cost. The ISS costs $100 Billion while China’s space station costs $8 Billion. This means as countries funding the ISS go into severe recession and inflation, they will be forced to cut back space spending, but because China can do it at only 8% the cost, they will continue to ramp up space developments. Plus China’s economy is not tipping into severe recession, especially when measured in purchasing power.
hopefully, the EU will want to colaborate with China soon seeing as how the ISS is starting to be decomissioned in the future. Anyways, the Chinese have already bade really interesting and important research using the space station so kudos to them!
Let's admit it... when it comes to space exploration, every nation in the world is "developing". As such, some countries still choose to be arrogant despite being just a tiny fraction of a dust in the cosmos.
It is not Europe that does not want to collabarate with China but it is China that does not want to. It is their own financed, designed and build station. Why would China allow others to enjoy it when they have rejected China from the ISS?
Great discussion , thank you . Sad news, the space exploration is the dream of mankind , Washington’s discrimination & dirty politic should not be a factor to prevent other nations from cooperation in space program
no big deal, what can you expect from a vassal state, China can continue with their space programs without any problems on their own. bigger lose for esa.
China’s Partnership with Russian on space program made ESA unease given the current situation on Ukraine. It’s understandable. I am hoping when the war end in a peaceful way, all the cooperations will be back on track.
Well that's a big loss for China. I don't really know why people believe that China has nothing to lose when in reality the problem here is that they have nothing to gain from the countries than already have been doing reserach in space for decades and have vast experience in the area. If anything that's a win for the other countries as China has nothing to gain than anything else
Its no loss for China. In fact, its better as China will not be faced with leg-dragging on joint projects with the EU as there is no political Will by the EU due to the US interference. Let all allocations be filled by Global South countries.
An an European, this saddens me. During the Trump years, EU wanted to have a bit of independence, forging ties with other partners. With Biden in power, that desire is much weakened. As for the political tensions due to the war in Ukraine - even if one accepts the most simplistic pro-USA view "Russia bad for invading Ukraine, China bad for supporting Russia", it makes no sense to abandon cooperation in space with China, as both USA and EU are cooperating with Russia on the ISS. I don't mind the EU working with USA, I just don't want us utterly dependent on a single nation for our access to space. I don't see us having our own manned launcher in the next 15-20 years.
China are not hardup for this countries if they are not interested as there are others that interested secondly even if all of they don’t want, China have no issue at all as they have the money, experience and expertise.
Je ne crois pas du tout que cette décision soit le résultat de pressions américaines. Depuis deux décennies, l'Agence spatiale européenne a décidé de consacrer relativement peu de moyens au programme spatial habité (un choix raisonnable AMHA compte tenu de la faiblesse du budget total). La décision qui fait l'objet de cette vidéo relève sans aucun doute d'une approche réaliste des moyens que l'ESA aurait pu consacrer à cette collaboration.
Bonjour Gérard, Oui tout à fait, il y a sans doute une grande part de contrainte budgétaire dans la décision de l'ESA. Mais je pense tout de même que la part de géopolitique n'est pas à négliger. Dans l'affirmation d'Achbacher, il dit lui-même: "we have neither the budgetary nor the political green light". Dans la même veine, l'astronaute Samantha Cristoforetti disait en janvier dans une interview aux chinois (qui lui demandent si elle envisage d'aller sur la station spatiale chinoise): "on avait bossé fortement vers cet objectif il y a quelques années. Désormais, les choses ne sont plus aussi détendus avec la Chine... vous le savez mieux que moi". Après oui, la pression américaine, c'est clair que ça reste de la spéculation...
To be invited and rejected however politely is still a 'slap' to the face to the accommodating host. I feel negative about how this is unfolding. Even during the height of geopolitical tension russia and usa worked together on the ISS
yes china will still do what its doing, but it also means that china will be paying everything on its own. its more costly and you dont get to share science research from other nation. i guess US wants all the money and resources from europe if they ever wanna keep ISS running and upgrade/replacing.
The way Europe is isolating itself is allerming. Europe has quite some achievement in terms of quality of life and equality. But if the current trend keeps going, EU will more and more become a US collony and will follow USA's route of deteriorating living standard and increasing inequality, nullifying whatever advantage they have over anyone.
@@ulikemyname6744 Doen't look that way an inch out of Europe. All these Eurocentric nonsense only exist in the hubris filled minds of western people, specially Europeans. And when u look into it, Europe is becoming increasingly irrelevant for Asia, who is onto building a ecosystem for themselves, like they always did.
