The key to making sense of mech roles is not to think of them as being part of mech design, but instead what role you've assigned to a machine during a mission. With the exception of the Timberwolf; its assigned role is *winner.*
I'd argue the Tiberwolf's assignment is bankruptcy when you role around the corner and find yourself outnumbers 20 to one and them still having millions of cbill left on the table.
Homie....with how much I love the Timberwolf, or Madcat for those that dont know its proper name, is actually trash, people swear the thing can take out multiple lances on its own.....when a 50 tonner can look at it funny and blow out a torso.....i want to love it...but i cant, unless your talking pure design, it will win ANY fashion contest hands down and anyone that disagrees is wrong.
As a light mech pilot in the earliest days of MWO, I loved missileboats. Mostly because they never knew what to do when they found my ECM-fitted Spider/Jenner popping their rear armor. But my favorite fights of all were against other lights. It was either a complete slaughter or a frantic knife-fighting duel, where turning at the wrong time would often result in death.
Who needs Stealth when you have Speed and terrain to block missiles. I just use my Locust to be a little backstabbing sometimes I switch up with a 5M and play scout/FO
i mean; you stick at several hundred meters away and torture the bastard with stealth armor, there's not much they'll do nowadays either. but man... being the assault mech that just hit his narc on a stealth mech... it feels pretty great. then again that is the sweetness of revenge for ya.
A trick about the classification system is that it isn't meant to just describe a mech and be done. Those roles feed into lance/star/level II compositions. A Battle Lance has certain types of mechs that fill out the lance. Same for cavalry and fire support stars.
The roles a battlemech can fulfill are often decided by: 'it's the only thing we have that can sorta do this, it'll have to do'. The impetus behind development of the omnimech was partly to remove these 'make do' cases.
As my favorite mech, I see the Catapult as a jumpy Archer. Not as tanky as most heavies, but it's ability to jump from one position to another makes it a scary enemy to fight even with an Assault mech(not much of them have jump jets and few can match the Catapult`s speed). I do admit the lesser ammo does make it a bit of a non-entity in longer battles. Thus I myself turn any catapult I have into srm boats(see Butterbee Catapult) anytime I can. A catapult with 4 srms instead of Lrm 15's is scarier to fight against.
@@Dracobyte Archer(oldest one) and the Longbow(oldest assault mech missile boat). You can also put in the Bombadier(too few ammo bins tho) and the Trebuchet(medium lrm boat that can COOK a pilot with the heat management). The last one I'd put in here is the Valkyrie(Davion Light mech with an LRM10).
As a person who is interested in making a Mech RPG... this video is helpful. Thank you Raging Canadian and Steve! Ambushers are designed to fail... or are they designed to work in tightly packed urban environments? Of course mechanized infantry, probably, should have that role, with small vehicles equipped with their anti-armour weapons. Brawler... sounds like what a civilian calls a tank, lol. Juggernaut (Super Heavy / Assault)... are you sure that's a proper designation? Missile Boats... they are important in warfare. Long-range, indirect, strikes are key to take out fixed/slow moving targets. They can also take out aircraft. Scouts... $100 remote controlled drones are better. Ukraine changed my mind. :p Skirmishers... high mobility, moderate damage... useful to flank enemy Missile Boats, take out scouts, and ambushers(?). Snipers... line-of-sight energy weapons... okay. Strikers... all offense, no defense. Okay. ---- I think the people who came up with these classifications had a somewhat adequate idea of what vehicles did in the army then crossed them with ships. Right now (in various militiaries) there are: Anti-missile platforms. Anti-Air platforms. Mobile missile platforms, as you said USA's HAMARS. Artillery, multiple types. Though, the self-propelled type are usually conflated with "tanks" by people who don't know better. Armoured Personnel Carriers. Infantry Support Vehicles, an example would by USA's Bradley. Armoured Fighting Vehicles, an example would be Russia's BMPT "Terminator". Light Tanks, like the M10 Brooker from USA. Main Battle Tanks, like Russia's T90, or UK's Challenger 2. Each of these combat vehicles have a purpose, a role. I haven't even listed the other auxiliary vehicles! The game developers _tried_ to copy the above list in their game(s) while sticking to mechs and I guess they failed by making them too customizable... and then other people not knowing a darn thing about military nomenclature just messed it up more, lol.
Instead of editing... I'll just continue. Ambushers = Tank Destroyers Brawler = Main Battle Tank (Medium Sized) Juggernauts = Main Battle Tank (Large Sized) Missile Boats = Missile Batteries Scouts = ISV/Light Tank Skirmishers = Light Tank / AFV Snipers = AFV Strikers = AFV There is some flexibility as some vehicles can be outfitted with different weapon loadouts. An example would by the ISVs having "light" weapons to support infantry against other infantry... while others also are equipped with anti-armour missile weapons.
The thing to understand about ambushers is that firstly, they're so cheap you can afford to lose them compared to the much higher cost even at equal tonnage brawlers or other 'Mechs. Secondly, they are supposed to work together to surprise a target, quickly eliminate it, and then set up to do so again. (Preferably from another location the enemy won't be looking for you in.) In a double blind game, where you and your opponent have no clue where each other's forces are except for your own units reporting discovered locations, read one of your units has line of sight to an enemy unit, having a lance of even 3025 era Urbanmechs (particularly the Liao version with its AC20), a lance of SRM carriers, or even a pair of old school Demolishers suddenly pop out from buildings or alleys, unload on a single target and likely kill it unless it was a heavily armored heavy 'Mech or equal unit, then fade to the next ambush point while your strikers and brawlers bait enemies to them is an extremely effective tactic. In a regular game where you and your opponent know where all of each others' forces are? Ambushers are only usable once (using the hidden unit rules), and then they become a liability unless you can leverage their firepower with the terrain to keep them viable. Edit: That said, yeah, a lot of the roles mentioned in the video are pointless. You can take a Juggernaut and without changing its weapons at all, it is an ambusher. (Nothing better than an enemy chasing your Griffin and walking into your waiting King Crab or Atlas.) Even the alternate roles of Calvary, Battleline, et al. aren't really good for defining 'Mech roles. A 'Mech's role is basically whatever you are using it as in any given situation. You need that Locust to play "tank" for a while and take some of the heat off another unit? Congrats, it is now a very fast but fragile "brawler".
The advantage urbies have is they try to fly away over the buildings. Just an Alpha Strike and run away, but they have low speed. If an ambusher lives, they ambush again.
Trying to assign a role to a Clanmech is about as effective as having a blind man pick teamates for a game of basketball during school recess. Also the Hunchback will always have a role of Big Gun on Legs in my heart. Thanks for the video.
Yeah these roles really mean nothing because when Comstar made them and assigned mechs to them, they did so arbitrarily. Personally I think of 3 main roles and 3 specialist roles when building a lance. The 3 main roles are Battleline, Ranged, and Cavalry. Battleline is designed to take hits and aggro the enemy protecting your squishier mechs. Ranged is a standard DPS and does most of the damage. Finally Cavalry will flank the enemy and punish them for improper positioning. The 3 specialist roles are Linebreaker, Scout, and Bodyguard. Linebreaker has one job, destroy the enemy Battleline. Linebreaker mechs have more armor and weapons than Battleline mechs, but are too slow. They almost always take way too much damage acting as a drain to throw your C-Bills into. One reason to use Linebreakers is that the enemy HAS to respond to them or be destroyed. This usually means the enemy focuses all their attention onto the Linebreaker allowing your other mechs free reign to tear them apart. Scouts are self explanatory, with only speed going for them they cannot take hits or do meaningful damage. It is difficult to justify using any scouts when your company is firmly established, because Skirmishers can do the job well enough and contribute to the fight. At that stage of a campaign Scouts are only useful in large raids or battles consisting of 12 mechs or more. Finally Bodyguards are the read-headed stepchildren of the bunch. With a mix of close and long range weapons they can contribute at all ranges, but with minimal impact. Their speed is faster than Battleline and Ranged mechs, but too slow to keep up with Cavalry or Scout mechs. However they are useful as the "glue" that holds your lance together by firing with Ranged, tanking with the Battleline, and intercepting Cavalry. I forgot to mention Hybrid mechs. Some mechs are able to fill multiple roles at once. One example is the Catapult which is a Ranged/Cavalry Hybrid. Using it's long range missiles or PPCs to do damage at long range and using Jumpjets to quickly move to hit the enemy in the rear.
Agreed, I made my own roles for when I compiled various mechs in a spreadsheet. Two new roles were raider mechs and marauder/predatot mechs. The former is the scout mechs that carry more firepower than you expect. The latter are the marauder and timber wold, they pick a mech and absolutely devour it at medium or long range. Later when I made my merc faction I simplified, as such cavalier and chasseur mechs. Based on the battle tank and cruiser tanks of Britain; the former are the troopers and fire support the latter are scouts and raiding mechs.
Line, Cavalry and Push for me. 64.8 kph are line, advance together and exploit openings. Cavalry are the fast movers, flankers and scouts. Create openings, pull attention away by forcing the opponent to divert forces. Push? Fun times. The big boys that just advance and can shoot at pretty much any range, getting progressively more dangerous as they close the distance. Slow mediums and heavies tend to be line, lights and fast mediums cavalry and slower heavies and assaults being push. There are exceptions as you can put a Banshee or Victor in the line mechs but I tend to go by speed brackets so the lances can keep up with each other.
@brothersgt.grauwolff6716 that's funny because most Hunchback pilots I've seen act like Likebreakers. Charging from the front, unloading everything, maybe killing the Assault Mech they were targeting, then dying.
Your comment on missile boat mechs perfectly illustrates the phrase “Artillery is King of the Battlefield.” Why bother sending a Lance to deal with a Juggernaut when you can sandpaper it to death and sacrifice mostly just missile ammo?
As I mentioned elsewhere, it's easier to look at it from a speed perspective. IS and 64.8 kph? Line mech. Faster? Cavalry variant. Slower? Push mechs. Couple of things, not "ackshually", just FYI. You don't need homebrew rules to build any mech, it's baked in (well according to my 1990 rules it is). It's more campaign limitations that cause mechs to be limited to specific variants. Also the Catapult is the original omni mech (before the Clans made them cool) as you can put anything in the arm pods. Kurita fielded the K2 which replaces the LRM launchers with PPCs for example. There's another variant that ran AC2s as well as the LRMS, yet another that's SRM based. Hell, one of the MWO ones is pure energy (Jester, love that thing!) I will agree that indirect LRM fire is annoying as hell but direct fire is where they shine, get closer and hit with more of them. More fun for you that way, less for the person on the receiving end. I would also strongly recommend always having a light, fast element for arty pillaging. You want to hide behind a hill? Fine, I'll under run your missiles and rip you a new one before your backup gets there then run away giggling :D
Many Mad Cat configs are Juggernauts more than anything else, with others being either brawlers or snipers. Centurions are mostly brawlers, but some might be snipers or skirmishers. Most Griffins are snipers or skirmishers. Most of the roles have at least one alternate label, often used for variable weights or to add nuance to an almost-but-not-quite correct basic category. An an example, cavalry is one of the most common alternate labels for skirmisher, with flanker being another.
Do NOT slander the Urbie. As a garbageman, I love rhe urbie, and it movws slightly faster than the average dumpster. Thw thick armor means it can contain more fire too.
The Warhammer 7K has been my favorite Heavy for a while. It has 2 ER PPCs like a sniper, 4/6 movement and 13.5 tons of armor, plus 2 Medium Lasers, 2 small pulse lasers, and 2 streak srms for up close (Brawler, maybe Juggernaut). Also a TAG for reasons designation.
When I made my merc faction I simplified considerably, as such Cavalier and Chasseur mechs. Based on the battle tank and cruiser tanks of Britain; the former are the troopers and fire support the latter are scouts and raiding mechs.
It’s funny you say the Timberwolf looks like a catapult. In lore, when they were first experienced targeting computers would cycle between marauder (MAD) and Catapult (CAT) based upon the visual profile, leading to the inner sphere designation MADCAT
Great video, as usual. One way to differentiate your unit is how it gets into position. If you have to walk your mech into firing position you're a brawler/trooper. If you can jump you r mech into position you're a striker/cavalry.
I see Scouts and Strikers as close cousins. Both are fast mechs for their tonnage, and the only real difference between them is that the Scout devotes tonnage to recon equipment while the Striker takes that same tonnage and devotes it to firepower. Similarly, Snipers and LRM-boats are both fire support with a specialization in either hole punching weapons (Snipers) or crit-seeking weapons (LRM boats). SRM boats don't fulfill the same fire support role as LRM boats because they do best close up on the front line. Thus, SRM boats would fall under some other role depending on how the rest of the mech is kitted out (which can be damn near any other role AFAICT). Thus a "missile boat" is a more a description of how a mech is armed, not it's intended battlefield role. Those are two different things even if they're often related.
the best MW 4 general mech IMO is the Uziel with some clam tech upgrades. Clan ppc, lbx 10, maybe the srm6, but I drop that for ammo or heat sinks. speed, jump, snipe with ppc, brawl with lbx(MW 4 was only shotgun version, and due to the rules in 4) you could do light guass paired if you really strip parts downYou can go brawler, striker, or sniper depending on loadout.
I find the roles are good for explaining the setting / lore to new people, or to help break down the composition of lances. I do find it useful for that purpose. It's easier for a friend to understand scout companies, having a striker Lance, which can include 'mechs like blah blah blah, than it is for me to try and explain each 'mechs individual strengths and weaknesses and when that 'mech can be used, without an overarching frame of reference.
Back when MWO launched a decade ago I was in an Aussie MWO clan who had a ridged teamwork combat structure where half our team was basically LRM racks and I was the scout who spotted and painted targets for their LRM boats. Our strategy was entirely me running up behind enemy LRM boats or their assaults, painting the cockpit with a targeting laser then our team would dump their LRMs into the heads of the opponent teams one shotting Atlases and Awesomes. Solo players in TEAM GAMES sooked about this to PGI so heavily that PGI nerfed LRMs so they'd scatter hit instead of all homing in on the painted location by a tag beacon or a laser. As a result my clan quit the game because they felt the game was no longer about teamwork, but now about whales using their premium currency to build F-off OP alpha strikers to run around and clown on new players with one shot builds, which is exactly what MWO has been for the past decade because that is what the MW4 community wanted out of the game when they migrated over to it and they're the whales keeping PGI's lights on so PGI only listens to them
I used to play a splatapult in MWO. 6 SRM-6 with Artemis, and as many heatsinks as possible. Quite enjoyable to dispense 72 damage in one pull of the trigger.
The best way to categorize Battle Mechs, IMO is...Light=Recon, Medium=Support for Recon and/or Flankers for Heavies, Heavy=Face breakers, Assault=Making things dead.
There is one type you did miss there. That being the “Trooper” Trooper types being the sort where they are optimal at mid range with their primary weapon being in an arm that has an extended reach (This excludes mechs like the Rifleman and Blackjack). They also are meant to either play a Bodyguard role in the Lance or stand at the forefront of the line. Think mechs like the Panther, Centurion-A, Black Knight (original configuration)
That is not how I run my Battletech lance. They are all in heavy mechs, their purpose is to move towards the enemy while firing until they can kick them down.
This is all because you are trying to fit the entire mech into a category. The loadout of the mech changes its battlefield role. Also, real militaries struggle with this problem, especially if they try slap designations onto an another military with the completely different doctrine. Its all contextual. And on top of that, the same mech variant can fulfill different roles in different encounters. Who says Catapult cannot skirmish Annihilator? The damn thing is so slow, even other assaults can run around it!
Urbie is great in an urban environment. Plus, having the ability to jump around and fire. Urbie is a lot better than you realize. You can still hate it. But clearly, you never expected the power of an Urbie.
i have done experiments almost exclusively in MW5 using an urbanmech to try and better flush out these roles. I did succeed in making essentially all of these roles. However this does further prove the point roles are bullshit and a good pilot can use any much for just about any role. Thank you, noble trashcan. this is the only thing your good for other than target practice.
I like to make very specialized lances/stars. Long Tom mounted mechs for destruction missions. ECM/TAG/NARC fast mech paired with Arrow IV lance mates. Truly evil type stuff.
16:41 well I feel praised here lol! When playing MW5, if I’m not playing as a midweight or Locust, I’m commonly using a Commando or Jenner in the early game. Note that I also, when using AI pilots, give my lancemates stuff more durable like a Centurion to soak up hits, and generally I have a bot setup with things to obliterate aircraft so I am not shot in the back by lasers 😂
i tend to another classification ... scout brawler( good survivability good heat management usabele spead) missileboat duell( where i wouldput things like timberwolf warhammer marauder ) cavalery (fast jumping with a decent punsh) juggernaut well as is
Couldnt help but think of WOT tanks to equal these roles... Ambush: Death Star (FV215b (183) Basically a 'delete' button if you hit things just right). Juggernaut: T95 Doom Turtle. True Scout: Anything with high view range. Scout: T49 Derp (this thing will wreck any light armored tank and then run away cackling). Sniper: Any TD. Stricker: Waffenträger auf E 100
I tend to build my lances as jugs just so i stop loosing valuable weaps (lv 4-5) and generally id rather replace armor then limbs mechs and weapons. Also ANH-1X w/4 heavy rifles and 6 S lasers is a nasty sniper jug you will die at range or close and get your face melted an atlas 7D found that out the hard way.
You misunderstand the urbie, the urbie always has friends. You round a corner you eat a huge autocannon round in the face it backs around a corner and because you don't need to go far in dense urban environments to break LOS where did it go? Then it's friend shoots you from another direction, repeat ad nauseum until you give up, get lucky or die.
Little late but what the heck. Think about this one: The Marauder MAD-3R is officially considered a sniper. The Marauder MAD-3D is officially considered a BRAWLER. Averaged out over sets of 2 turns BOTH mechs can do 20 damage at long range without overheating. Why does the role change matter? The MAD-3R can assume the sniper role to fill the requirements of a command lance under formation rules. The MAD-3D can NOT fill that required roll. Since the MAD-3D was introduced it was the top pick for a Command Lance leader by many players. Also the Catapult K-2 (The 2XPPC variant) is officially a sniper while the Warhammer WHM-6D is officially a brawler. The only difference weapon wise is the Cat has 2 MGs where the Whammy has 2 small lasers. These roles matter when Alpha Strike formation rules are used.
What?! No Cavalry category? Thats where I'd throw stuff with decent to good firepower coupled with maneuverability, like the aforementioned Timber Wolf. Bodyguard is another role I'd include, stuff that can support its teammates on the way in but can intercept and deal with the backstabby little buggers. ...and then theres the customs that my OCD makes....the horrors that should never see a tabletop. 🤫🤐
I recall trying a splatapult (6 srm-6) in MWO... the on paper numbers are silly, but in practice the enormous spread you get if you aren't so close as to be doing extra damage with the box-opener you're holding out the window means you are missing half or more of it aimed at anything less than the broad-side of an atlas, and are probably about to get slapped even by urbies for heat-reasons... Also if I recall correctly, there was a battle somewhere in the lore where splatapults were used... all such mechs were lost, but not before collapsing the underground structure the battle took place in.
So Mechs are more like special operations operators for mechanized forces they have a mission and they pick the best gear for the mission needs, where each soldier can probably do everyone else's job decently and within reason, were things like tanks and other non mech forces are very days Forces were they least customized with few exceptions, as it not required, it something like that
I think it all depends on what PLATFORM you're talking about. Like, it sounds like you've never fought a Fire Moth/Dasher in MW2 (the OLD one) or a Laser Jenner in MWO Closed Beta (because I didn't play it after the CB. Partly because of the Jenners. So I don't know if they're still... annoying in the live game). Dude. I remember watching that Fire Moth OUTRUN my Dragon's LRMs. Like, YES MISSLE LOCK EAT THIS YOU 20 TONNE PAPERWEIGHT! And the Dasher just... dashed away. Or how frustrating fights became when every single goddamned Mechwarrior got into a Jenner filled to the brim with SMALL LASERS and ran up to your heavy - because I absolutely refused to play the "meta" - and did dozens of little Small Laser papercuts on you until you blew up because you can't turn fast enough to hit it with your heavier weapons. But if we're talking the HBS Battletech? Then, yes, those roles don't matter. Just a couple of hours ago, on a... 4 Skull mission? Three? A Pirate MW in a TBT-7K whose "name" was just PILOT - not even a specialty - kept hitting my PXH-1Bs equipped with +3 dodge Gyros jumping their full distance. It's why I never - NEVER - tried a dream build using a Locust in vanilla HBS because I know the AI will SOMEHOW tag that mech. I know we can. And why are you dissing the Urbie like that? I modded a Suburbie well enough with one of the btter PPCs and managed to core AN ASSAULT from behind. Granted, that was with the help of the entire lance, but yay Suburbie. Then again, I guess you CAN make those roles work on the HBS Battletech. An Ace Pilot can Alpha someone and then jump out of the way or, depending on the terrain, walk to safety. I've done it with my Aces lots of times now. Brawler mechs are best with the Mechwarriors who Entrench. Even on the boardgame, I think you can make those roles work, with or without the special rules, just off the box. I'm not even going to go into the fiction. The mere fact mechwarriors can survive to be high ranking officers in mechs like the Valkyrie or the Wolfhound is crazy. And let's not talk about the sh** Kai pulled.
I don't know what the actual rules say, but if you were to say to me "brawler mech," I would think something that's meant to get up close and personal, like a Hatchetman or a Charger or whatever.
Has anyone tried partnering a urban mech with 1-3 missile boats The urban keeps out of sight until some light mechs go after the missile boats Then the urbies take out the light mechs
I find roles only matter if your playing with formation bonuses from campaign ops during a extended campaign. Otherwise, like you say it dosn't realy matter.
Hrm... there is alot i disagree with in this video... first of all this video seems to jump somewhat fierce between battletech lore overall (like mentioning SRM carriers)... and mechwarrior video games in specific (mostly MWO)... wich isnt really helpfull because the title of the video is "battletech lore" and not "roles in MWO that dont work since its a mech vs mech only arena shooter" Ambushers: Ambushers in lore have their place, especially considering that no... not every planetary militia is going to go up against direwolfs. Infact most planets in the Inner sphere have more to fear from ragtag pirate groups that use grandmas old patchwork stinger or wasp battlemech then even having the chance of seeing a direwolf on the news. And for these cases ambush units are devastating. A SRM carrier DELETES light mechs if he can get the drop on them, is cheap to maintain and buy and easy to replace. Same for the urbie.. an urbie is not meant to go up against heavies and assaults. What its suposed to do is delete bug mechs and tanks out of existance in urban settings where its slow speed doesnt matter cause it has jump jets and can jump from cover to cover. These are hyper specialised mechs that should never be taken out of their niche... cause that will end in nothing but pain. Brawlers: Brawlers are your bread and butter units, youre average Grunts. The defining factors of a brawler mech are staying power, usability and affordability. Brawlers dont have fancy schmancy equipment like artemis fire controls, gauss rifles, TAGs or NARC launchers. They are down to earth, head banging against the wall, time tested and proven designs that every moron with 2 braincells to rub together can pilot. They arent fragile little snowflakes and your tech isnt going to vent you out the next airlock if you break some parts on them because nothing on a brawler should bust the bank account when you need to replace it. Missle boats: Missle boats have 2 roles: Long range fire support, or close range yeetus deletus of combat vechiles or wounded mechs. Thats it. The way they play in mechwarrior games is a bit different because of lock on mechanics.. but those dont actually exist that way in the battletech lore or in the boardgame. (In lore the onboard computer takes over the targeting and basically all weapons have lock on auto targeting) So yeah.. hate them asmuch as you want in the mechwarrior game, but they are VERY viable and usefull in both lore and the boardgame. Juggernauts: Not much to say.. its basically what most assault mechs where invented for... Scouts: Again focusing to much on the video game side of things. Both in lore and arguably on the board (most importantly during campaign play) Scouts are ESSENTIAL. Scouts are also very important in a infiltration and behind enemy line actions like raiding supply caches or ammo dumps or disrupting communications. Skirmishers: AGAIN focusing wayyyy to much on the mechwarrior online side of things. Skirmishers are hit and run capable mechs. They are fast, hit hard, dont have alot of staying power. They are made for hit and run tactics. Anything they cant outgun, they can outrun. Hence why mechs like the Griffin are NOT skrimishers.. they are to heavily armored and to slow and carry to little firepower. A Commando, Lancelot or raven fit this combat role to a T. Get in, blast targets of oportunity and get out before the enemy can respond. This is a viable tactic in the lore, but in MWO where its exclusively mech vs mech only action.. not so much.
I've been playing battletech since 1986, and some of these so-called roles are 'news to me'; they must be out of some of these newest releases, or the computer games, or something? Like Ambusher? Juggernaut? When were these defined? I saw mention of CEnturion having a shield - thats not in the tabletop game,. so this has got to be roles defined by a video game or that Alpha STrike game right? (Edit: there might be a shield in some of the advanced tabletop rules that are newer that Im less familiar with, I will concede that right now. I dont remember seeing a shield in techmanual, tactical operations or strategic operations however) I also disagree with some of your definitions and examples. ALSO. Omnimechs are *OMNI. It's in the NAME. They can fill nearly any role because they are designed to be entirely modular. Did you miss that part? Im willing to be no one cares, but if anyone is interested in hearing my thoughts on roles and examples of roles, just let me know in the comments.
The Jenner can't be a brawler because it doesn't have any arms to swing. The Clan version mabye....and if you gave it Tripple Strength Myomer, and opted for only small lasers...bumped up the armor...threw in MASC and a couple extra heat sinks...endo steel...maybe a rocket launcher...A Charger pilot...All the good Charger pilots are dead, you say? How bout a Freebirth Clanner looking to prove themselves? This could work
If you are custom building every thing of course roles make no sense on a chassis basis. And even if you do not some chassis have enough standardized variants that trying to assign a role to the chassis is impossible by tabletop the only mechs that are ment to be quickly and easily field modifiable are omnimechs. So customizable mechs are not the norm the computer games allow very easy customizable mechs so should not even be considered when trying to classify a mech. You are much better off looking at a particular varrient and classifying it with out considering modification and if you do modify it you basically have to reclassify it. Yes this does mean some mechs the basic 3025 griffin being a good example cover multiple roles. The griffin 1n with a ppc and lrm 10 being both a decent small sniper and a passable skirmisher . The I think it's the 1s that changes the weapons out for a closer range loadout is straight up a cavalry mech and possibly a skirmisher though it is to slow to skimisher as well with it's range brackets the wolverine is the same as the later griffin in every standard varrient I can think of a cavalry mech and possible skirmisher though less good at this role. The Jenner is straight up a striker to expensive to be sn ambusher or scout. Let's add in that the size of battles computer games allow and the time constraints table top usaly enforces means most battles are to small for most clasifications to matteradd in the general lack of strategic elements makes roles like scout pointless. Though oddly enough mwo scouts accualy have a purpose but you are probably better off taking a skirmisher to fill the role so you can fight enemy skirmishers and scouts something scouts do not really have the firepower to do.
Note on the Ambusher: These are primarily filled with mechs that have very high Alpha Strike potential, and are meant to ac as a sort of assassin, taking out or crippling the enemy's ace or similarly powerful mech that cannot be allowed to go into the upcoming fight at 100%
I think a fair assessment of juggernaut style play is start hitting at long range, and as you get closer, add more and more hatred until your objective is seized or slagged. Unstoppable, unending pain. Other examples include the nightstar and pillager. Mechs that start shooting at extreme range and get more terrifying as they get nearer
glad you mentioned the Catapult K2 cause recently I ran a variant in a table top game of Battletech based on the recent release of the Dragons Gambit dlc for MW5 the CPT-K2-S it drops the machine guns for AC2s and downgrades the Med Lasers to Small Lasers it's a nasty piece of work in MW5 and it's viable on the table top as well
The battlefield roles are exactly that, descriptors that aid a commander in deciding play styles for that particular mech. These are roles that a commander will assign to a Mechwarrior to perform. It won't be the only battlefield role such a mech can perform, but for the sake of the immediate battle, that is what they will do. I can imagine a Lance Commander, knowing his HBK only has 1 ton of AC/20 Ammo, will make the HBK Mechwarrior mother those rounds and use it as an Ambusher instead, particularly in a Double-Blind game in the City, where LOS is minimal. A freshly assigned Archer may take point as a Skirmisher, while the other damaged LRM carrying units in the lance will hang back and camp, MissileBoating all the way. Shadow Hawks, well, you can put them anywhere. Skirmishing through to Brawling - depending on how much you like the pilot. Something that is coming down the line for tabletop Battletech is the Mechwarrior Aces AI Card System. They did an Open Beta testing for Aces for those involved in the Mercenaries Kick Starter. Each Mech is given a small deck of cards responding to their battlefield role, they randomly draw an AI Card and move and fire as per the instructions on the card for that round. It was set up for Alpha Strke, but can be easily adapted for Classic Battletech. It is an interesting system, and may transform the way the game is played on the tabletop. More people will want to be involved if it becomes more a PvE thing, than a PvP encounter. Less arguments. The Battlefield Role is critical in this Card System.
I am so sorry Sci. Because when you described the missile boat my first thought was; "That sounds like an excellent idea!" Long range combined with smart weapons is the primary method of American military power at present and for the foreseeable future, with which path I am heartily in agreement.
I personally like loading up catapults with SRMs and brawling with them. Throw in an XL engine and plenty of ammo and you live fast, die fast, and hit like the fist of an angry god.
@@VallornDeathbladeThat sounds like a good way to die to an ammo explosion... I hope you're swapping the torso lasers with something a bit more angry.
A common replacement for the “brawler and skirmisher” terms is the trooper and cavalry roles. Trooper mechs: they tend to be generalists, durable, and typically armed with a large energy weapon, decently large LRM rack, and maybe a medium laser or two. Most importantly they will mostly *have weapons for all common range brackets* example mechs are well known generalist mechs with punch, like the Orion, the griffin 1S, centurion, Thunderbolt, vindicator, and bushwhacker, and to an extent the Timberwolf…also the shadowhawk somehow, but the shadowhawk is the Honda civic of medium mechs, and mostly a trainer. I’d save the brawler role for something like an enforcer or blackjack. The cavalry mech: it is best described using the famous 5/8 mechs seen across the field pre 3049, the wolverine, Kintaro, ostroc, Ostsol, scorpion, and the QuickDraw kings counts, if slightly vague. Typically they will move relatively rapidly across the field, and mostly be able to effectively flank heavier assets, though their weaponry most often prioritizes medium and close range combat, while trying to flank and destroy heavier assets. They *tend to have a set of decent medium and close range weapons and remain relatively mobile*
I will say the combat roles are often more about loadout than Chassis. Some Chassis lean towards one role or another because that was the original intent but then the variants mix it up. Each variant for a Chassis can easily fulfill a different combat role.
The classifications and combat doctrine of the Battletech universe feel like they were created by people who had heard about war one time from a friend.
Okay, I gotta say, a centurion firing HE shells from an AC/20 to compete with an LRM boat sounds amazing. Actual gigachad showing the catapults how you really pour salt in the wound. No death by a thousand missiles, just a funny bullet.
