If you run a big fleet, it makes sense to run new trucks but if you have 1 or 2 trucks I would recommend getting a pre emissions and pre elog truck and save your self the big payment and all the complications
Correct, holding 1 or 2 spare trucks in a big fleet is a small percentage of extra trucks to cover downtime. It's not viable with a small fleet it someone needing to sell to afford the next one
Hay bro in 100% with old school and I'm 30. The mega carriers that is the game for the big guys not me owner operator. Also instead of inviting in the mega way is bad because you need to have a perfect run and year. I'm in the USA and I'm seeing loads pay 3500 to 4000 for 2 day trips. So unless the new guy can come at me with some crazy statistics of how to think and how it works small guys like me will reject his way of thinking out of hand. I wish instead of making a video of old vs new he did a video of small vs big because then you will rely see the difference because I can bet you anything I can give compelling arguments that the mega guy has never head of and didn't even know existed.
As a Company Driver... *drive a 2020 Cascadia auto *run your ass off in comfort *run 3000 miles per week *take home as much or more than OO *truck breaks down: cost to driver is ZERO and company provides loaner at no cost to driver *cheap but good health insurance *401k *paid holidays *periodic bonuses Unless you plan to build a fleet of 5 trucks or more... I don't believe it is worth owning just one single truck... way to risky... way to expensive... not enough profit... I think the days of the 'single truck owner operator' is coming to an end pretty dang fast...
@@Nihil2005 ... regardless... OO or Company Driver... the government (FMCSA) runs the trucking industry... what the FMCSA says... goes... Safety Deparments and HR Departments are just there to make sure all drivers conform to the government rules and regs... The only decision an OO has the 'power' to make... it seems... is when to go home... and that's sad...
@@KittyKrazeWithDar ... I had to decide whether I was gonna be married to my wife... or married to my truck... I almost made the wrong decision... As a Company Driver I have the best of both worlds... No stress... good money... financial security... and my home time is 'my wife and family time'... NOT truck repair or maintenance time... ya know what I mean...
@@KittyKrazeWithDar ... I feel you sweetie... my wife pulled no punches... she said I MUST choose... she said she was NOT going to play second fiddle to a 'stupid' truck... (she was serious and she was mad)... She showed me on paper that I could make the same amount of money (and even more)... build security... have less stress... and most important... not lose her and the kids to that 'stupid' truck... She was right... life is too short and unpredictable...
@@KittyKrazeWithDar ... not gonna happen... so long as you remain silent... he believes that you're ok with the truck... but I hear ya... God Bless You...
I think this is a case of owner operator running 1 truck vs a company running a fleet of 100 trucks. Having an older truck for an owner operator with simple reliable motors are better regardless of fuel economy because of less down time and repair costs as opposed to someone with 100 trucks that can afford the down time and repair costs and spread it out over more trucks
Less downtime is the key point here. An individual driver loses not only repair costs but also income revenue when those emission systems fail. Burning a bit more fuel but keep moving with reliable motors is much better for an individual driver down the line
I am 70 years old I totally agree trucks are not built to last . I have bought new trucks because . I have a small fleet 11 trucks a d 14 reefer trailers . We go to cali weekly . I do agree i have a less issues with new equipment.. But i still buy Peterbilt s
I'm not in trucking business, but I found this discussion fascinating. Brian said he cares most about Comfort... but he actually cares more about long-time reliability. Old trucks you can repair easier using independent shops, while new ones require the services of dealership... looks like a "right to repair" issue.
The problem with Brian is he's size for the W900 . He's to high for this type of truck . There made really tight inside the cab . The rest it's more comfortable then the newer models . Gages , isolation , even the way they keep the road it's more safer and comfortable .
Thats not true. millions of newer trucks running. All these guys today know is run the computer and it tells you what to repair. They screw up your old truck in todays world. They dont know how to repair them.
2021 volvo VNL 860 average mpg variable elevation: 6.3 mpg My 2007 kenworth t2000, no emissions, same route 5.9 mpg. Kenworth: $25k Volvo: $160 Maybe I’m missing something but the fuel he saves he spends the $ on def?
@@gr1099 I don’t know if that’s the case or not. I would say that the cost of def fluid should be included in the equation of the cost, however. I have no doubt that the newer trucks are more comfortable and driver friendly, however when it comes to the costs of operation it seems that we are not getting a true comparison.
When they compare fuel mileage old trucks vs new trucks. I love how they neglect the cost Diesel Exhaust fluid for the newer trucks. Yes I saved on my fuel mileage on my new truck but I spend it in DEF and I have more expensive repairs.
they need the toyota mindset, keep the engine and transmission the way it is and upgrade everywhere else that does not affect the reliability, such as the comfort
Comfort is not just physical comfort. I am much more comfortable not having to worry about warnings coming up and deciding to ignore them and get the job done or stopping and waiting for the mechanic to decide what to do and often deciding that I keep going. False warnings cause damage because we then ignore real ones. I am also more comfortable in the way different trucks function. DAFs wanting to shut down an engine after idling a while is annoying. A Merc going into neutral while idling at lights is annoying. I find those things reduce comfort and I would be more comfortable in a truck with a rougher ride but operates in a nicer way
If you're going to use the argument "Why do you feel different about buying a new truck every few years when you buy a cell phone every few years?", then could we assume that the same logic applies to buying a house every few years? Do you expect your $200k house to be worthless after 5 years? No. Why can't we expect the equipment that has previously proven to last 10 years to continue to be as durable?
Yes truck can cost as much as a house, but this is a poor comparison. A truck depreciates way faster than a house. The minute the truck is driven off the lot you have instantly loss money. For most houses that is not the case. Also the longevity of a house is 5 time that of a truck at least. The cell phone comparison to the truck is a lot more logical. Not that cell phones break down.....they just become out dated and literally force consumers to buy newer phones. If DOT or law makers said ok if your truck does not have DEF than you can only do local runs than everyone would be forced to buy newer trucks if they want to do OTR. So even the cell phone comparison isn't accurate but more logical than a house. The best comparison was driving a new car vs an old car
Numbers don’t lie. But.. Most drivers today are steering wheel holders. For big companies it makes sense to have new trucks that are automatic, computerized and have warranties. Drivers today don’t have to learn to shift or keep an eye on the pyrometer when climbing a mountain. Today’s drivers don’t know what that is or why it was on older trucks. As an O/O you are by yourself and better know your truck and be prepared for anything because it will happen on the road. Changed tires, turbo, fixed a dead cylinder on the side of road, got myself where I needed to be. Today’s drivers? Call a 1-800 number. Lol.
@@Bradgilliswhammyman manual trucks aren't that hard to drive. those automatics are worse than anyone but the very beginner skill level drivers. The computer's aren't even close to doing what our brain does with just one of our senses used for driving let alone all of them. For one thing a computer can't see what's developing in a roundabout as your approaching it to know whether to stay in 4th or down shift to 3rd so when it's time to go it's still screwing around wasting time and fuel shifting. About 5 percent of the time the convenience of the auto is appreciated but 95 percent of the time it's a liability.
Acting like shifting gears is hard to do lol. I prefer an automatic because I would rather my job be a bit easier than impress some boomer I could care less about.
@@derrickzenner9300 kevin is right auto are becoming far more efficient than manuals an soon ... trucks won't even need human drivers... imagine trucks using sensors, sonar, radar, satellite, advanced HD cameras, GPS etc..... that's a lot more info/ data to use to avoid accidents or traffic jams. Alot more the a pair of eyes and a radio
My take. Buy new w/ the warranties then sell them while they still hold value. 5 years @ 750,000 miles @ 60% depreciation. Should have bought 3 replacements in those 5 years already. Know your Entry and know your Exit strategy in this business. Fall in love with the family not the truck. lol.
I'm still not going to spend $200,000 on a truck because it's more comfortable. I can pay for, and end up with a comfortable old truck, for a hell of a lot less money. Brand new anything isn't built to last, I don't care what you're talking about, it's all made to throw away.
I think it's great that Ronen looks at the numbers so closely for the different trucks & drivers, and informs them of what he sees. Ultimately, it's all relative; how you are doing is judged by how others compare to you & vice versa. Both of you have great arguments and reasons for them. I do think there is close to zero doubt that the newer trucks are definitely the way to go if you look at it as a economic business; that the main objective it to make money. The big trucking companies all have Ronen's analyzing their numbers, too. What do they do? The dump the trucks in 3-5 years. Once the warranty's are gone, the trucks are not far behind. They all cannot be wrong. Even individual on RU-vid that bought new trucks and operate as a business will verify they make more money with the new trucks. My guess is that Brian will likely order a new truck (maybe a Pete or KW) after the 90 days are up.
Great job on the video. Need more content like this that brings multiple points of view to a single topic. That’s how you come up with effective solutions to issues.
At 120k miles a year his Kenworth is costing him around $80k in fuel where as a new cascadia will cost around $50k. You are spending about $30k more a year for a hood truck. You aren't going to spend $30k more in repairs every year on a new truck. BUT the biggest expense is losses revenue from the truck being in the shop. So a hood could be more efficient if it has less downtime. With today's market a 3 week downtime could cost you 30k in lost revenue
Depending where you run you can get decent fuel mileage out of the older truck but you have to go slower then 70 lol. I drove a w9 280" wheelbase 13 speed and when I drove slower I was able to get about 7 mpg, probably could've did a little better perhaps with a shorter wheelbase keeping the air from getting between the truck and trailer but hey I think 7 mpg is pretty good plus had a CAT motor
I run 4 trucks and drive one my self, yes the newer trucks give more electrical problems at times but the new trucks are more comfortable and are nicer to drive and the automatic gearboxes are now good and with good drivers being hard to get nowadays the new trucks are more appealing to them over old trucks, also newly qualified drivers today cant operate a manual gearbox!
I got my class A CDL in 1980 when I was 18 and soon I'll be 60. New trucks are simply better all around. You are free to disagree. I don't waste my time arguing anymore.
One thing that isn’t discussed, old truck with title in hand also gives more freedom because when I decide to take 2 months off I don’t have any payments I’m responsible for. No fuel used no truck payments owed!
I have to agree with Brian, an older truck you can get atleast 1 million miles on the engine. Most Crapcadias and volvas turn to mush after 450-500k miles. The resale value is atrocious. But a W9 or 379 will hold it's value for decades!
Newer trucks require special care like sensor cleaning and other stuff which some drivers are lazy or forget to do and that's when they have mechanical problems. With older trucks you can slack off on maintenance and still survive. Buy a new, not a used truck, stay on top of the mfg maintenance requirements, drive it properly, and that truck should give you no mechanical problems.
You should've said the fact that you lose 150k after your new truck is worn out where as with a pre emission they actually are increasing in value if u keep it nice
There is one element I'm missing in this discussion: What about Gliders? With a glider you have a nice new truck with all the advantages regarding comfort, but you don't have to deal with the emission problems
You're right.... but they don't make them anymore. I think the EPA made them stop in 2016. Trump administration tried to make them legal again but couldn't
@@darrenhanson7696 New gliders may not be an option anymore, but what about used one? I could imagine that owner operators are better off with a used glider and a new emission truck...
Your truck won't get 8mpg, my pre emission 2012 Columbia GLIDER, 12.7 60series gets 8.5 US gallon all day on summer fuel. Easily the cheapest truck on the road to fix, and FIND shops to fix it. My maintenance and expendables came to .08c a mile last year and ZERO down time. It has 750k miles on it. And it's paid for. MONEY MAKER. MY LAST TRUCK.
The little back and forth at the beginning was a total hoot! Not really what they were here to discuss, BUT, a lot of companies send their dispatch and other staff including execs on a driver course for a day or 2 to give them a taste. A days ride along can be a real eye opener for them as well. I think both a re a terrific idea. GREAT vid btw!
I chose a 2015 Columbia glider with a 12.7 Detroit and a manual transmission. The truck provides the comfort for otr and the drivetrain keeps my operating costs down
My 2019 was just down for a month (DPF system, DEF sensor FINALLY came in). Part that time it was at the crane shop having a 1/2" line swapped back to a 5/8" line. Plus it was down for a week 2 months ago for the heater core.
Hi guys, you both have good points , I have driven old and new , I have 20 years under my belt of driven experience an trust me , I just to have a 96 Freightliner fld120 doing 6.5 mpg awesome truck sero down time and I can take a month or two off without the worry of a truck payment but with this new trucks an emissions problems they have, I can't afford the down time, just my two cents, love the channel.
I’m excited for this one! I personally drive a 2021 Kenworth T680 with a Cummins. I’m a company driver right now. Before this I drove a 2016 freightliner and that thing was in the shop a lot! The Kenworth I have no oh 75,000 miles and I have only been in the shop for maintenance. I personally love the look of the W 900 it is my favorite truck but for making money I would agree with Ronan. If old trucks made more money everyone would be doing it but from what I can see on the road is that the all trucks are fading out.
i am 30 years old and i hate the emissions truck nothing like old school thats where i learnt everything i was 13 at the time i was getting in to trucking and those trucks are still running
I'm a company driver, operating in Indiana and the states that surround it. My previous truck was a 2016 Freightliner Cascadia, currently I'm in a 2019 Mack Anthem. I'd go back to the Freightliner in a heartbeat.
I am relatively new to driving, only 1.75 yrs, but even I noticed, and so have to agree with Brian, that Volvo cabs and sleepers are flat out ergonomic. I also agree with Ronen that newer trucks are more economical - gimme the ching ching $$, BB! Many comments say old vs new depends on fleet size, where 1-3 trucks vs 4 or more? I hope the follow-up video addresses the fleet size. Can you make us a spreadsheet on this, Ronen, on what the critical mass is for a fleet size to begin running newer trucks? And ya, insurance costs matter as well. Nice job!
The new trucks are awesome but I have a peace of mind knowing that I can diagnose and fix anything that can fail on the old rigs. They're simple compared to the new very complicated trucks. Also i only see about 0.5-0.7 mpg difference in my 96 N14 to my 2019 X15
Another plus for the older truck with no truck payment is if you are down for a lengthy repair, you don’t have a truck payment to make. In the newer truck, you would be making a payment for a truck that you’re not driving.
Cars last more than 4 years, my pickup truck is a 98 well maintained Ranger and my car is 8 years old which is also very well maintained. They both start right away with no issues even during those winter times of below zero temperature.
The biggest issue I have as a small fleet owner is with the newer vehicles everything has to be programmed by a mechanic or the dealership I work on my own vehicles and some of my newer trucks just to change a Turbo out I have to tow the thing to the dealership to have it reprogram so it will drive the older trucks you change the Turbo out fire it up and go I drive all day and then work on my own trucks every weekend for me and and just for me an older truck is easier to repair and get moving again.
😂😂😂 Brian my RU-vid friend if you don't see Sir. Ronen want to give you a new 2022 truck please take the truck remember your health come first and comfort. please take the new truck change are good trust Sir. Ronen wish I had a Boss like Sir. Ronen he is a good guy.🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
I finally found a great trucking company that I’m working for! After years of hell with other companies! You guys give great advice and a great trucking company and family! If more trucking companies were honest like my boss and you guys the industry would be great.
Very entertaining video, Brian, your a star mate!!!. Who won the discussion, well Rohan edged it 55% 45%, you both made your case very well. Another interesting vid from ET.
New trucks for ride comfort including auto transmission and fuel mileage . Old trucks for no def emissions with unrestrictive power and unique styling.
I think the reason the old truck feels better is that there is so little downside rusk. Qn older driver might need to be out for a month, or he might want to spend a few weeks with grandchildren. He doesn't have to worry about that bug truck payment. Of course, he could take the extra money and put it in the bank, but most people don't do this.
Could a new engine deleted be legally used in an older truck? If new engines have fuel economy benefits, then deleted they should require less maintenance
The computers aren't designed to be deleted. You are asking for trouble with a deletion. Not to mention finding mechanics that will work on them without snitching.
What about the driver control ? I understand the thaught of a driver ! A driver has much better control on his rig with a manual transmission in bad weather. Sorry for my bad spelling I'm french ! 🤣🤣🤣
Great discussion! It's the eternal battle, New vs Old. One metric that I think is important to measure is how do you feel walking out of the truck stop and looking at your truck. Are you excited thinking, "man, that thing is cool." Or, do you come out and look at your newer truck and think "yeah, it makes me a little more money, but the thing is generic and boring." For myself, I love the classic look and it makes me happy just driving it. I drive a '86 International CO 9670 cabover by the way. People smile, honk, wave, and that's worth money to me.
Take a look at what the numbers do not tell you for an individual driver. A breakdown of one truck out of 80 90 trucks is viable for the company. It is not viable for the company driver or a single truck owner-operator that not only pays the repair bills but also loses income revenue from the down time it spends in the shop
I drive a 379 hauling cattle. I haul heavy and have to cover some ground, and I can’t be on the side of the road. I’d love to run a new truck and get 8.5 mph. I get 4.5 loaded in general terms. My Pete fits my needs, and I run for almost $10/mile. If I were hauling general freight, fuel mileage would be a higher priority.
That's the primary point that not everyone seems to get right away, you have to choose the truck that suits YOUR needs. So, we prioritize high fuel mileage so we get our money's worth. We also don't have to worry about rough terrains for a lot of our runs. However, if you need a truck that can handle all of that, definitely get it!
when you finance you have to continue moving even when the loads are dirt cheap... when you buy cash you work when you want to..when you finance and your truck is down,you still have to make the payment.
The sensors and computers on the new trucks are often just "not available." If you have a fleet and a truck goes down because they can't source the parts, you will be OK; You drive another truck. If you are an owner operator and you have to wait weeks for replacement sensors or computers, you are totally screwed. This is the fear of the new truck owner. Those warranties are designed to end at very critical times. You will be paying the bill.
Another thing to consider is that fuel cost varies. Fuel price drops, cost drops. Driving style affects mileage, that affects fuel cost. Truck payment, stays the same.
_I love the older trucks because it’s an old American tradition, an old brotherhood if you will, unfortunately for today’s generation they wouldn’t know what is wrong with and older model truck without having had younger years of mechanical skills; back in the days we had men that were tougher and more hands-on mechanically_ _Nevertheless, older trucks are faster to repair and truly are built to last_ _Back in the days we exercised our brains more than the younger generation are able to today, they have technology thinking for them, nowadays driving a truck is much easier, so now we have half brain thinking drivers behind the wheel playing with their phones while driving an automatic_
That is the problem , I am thinking that old school drivers can certainly think of old truck, but how tiring is the less good comfort for your body. It is about getting new drivers to the trade. I have driven old trucks in the military (60s-80s vintage), yes robust ofc but not comfortable or safe at all for todays standard. If I look at a modern Volvo FH or another brand from today it is another world and it is the same for the US trucks. In Europe fuel costs probably matters far more and the service 24/7. I see very few trucks older than 10-15 years, they are exported to other countries after they reach a certain age.
@@andersreinholdsson9609 _Here in America the older trucks is about the tradition, are older trucks safer than the newer trucks, absolutely not, for the younger generation today who is used to operating today’s trucks would not understand the safety implications of the older truck and the amount of skill and responsibility you must have within yourself to operate them_
OOHHH boy, do i LOVE that new challenge.... Please make it truthful and realistic.... I WANT to see on paper the full result... I am still unsure what i will buy next.... a 2008 Volvo (pre-DEF) or a 2018 Volvo....
With a new truck you are married to the truck payment! The only way you will save money on fuel with a newer truck is if you bust ass every month on it.
I'm 60 years old, I've been driving for about 12 years now. Don't get me wrong, I love my Cascadia with all the creature comforts. I didn't think I would ever get used to the automatic transmission, but again I love it. When you're stuck in traffic you can't beat it. What I want to see is cost of ownership over the life of a truck. Compare everything. Purchase price to trade in value. How long will one of these new trucks last? When does it become to much money to keep it running? This is where an older truck will win hands down every time. Over the life of a truck, cost of fuel?
The only thing that you trying not to do and I'm talking about the older guy he went to all the issues he had to trust he just trying not to get back in the poor house try the New cascadia but don't get rid of Old faithful cuz that could be your backup plan if the truck go down put that into the equation that's all I can say
All I can say is I had an old truck. ‘96 International daycab. It was a turd, in the shop every 30 days for something. M-11 motor blew up after a year. Ditched it and got a 2017 Freightliner day cab. Also a turd, but a bit less of one. In the shop once every two or three months. Even with a payment on the newer one I have less downtime and turn a profit, with the old one I struggled to break even. Just my personal experience
One important issue missed? If the truck is shut down for a week or two, for one reason or another, no driver, no work, sits in parking lot. Old truck no payment, new truck yes .
I'm a mechanic working on these trucks. I do love my pre-emission Series 60 Detroit, but I can't ignore that the newer emission engines have come a long way even from 2014. A 2014 Volvo (especially a D16) isn't anywhere near where a newer 2018+ unit is. They still have tons of sensors and systems that fail, but the driver comfort + fuel economy is king. In a perfect world, if we could put that pre-emission Series 60 into a brand new Volvo or Cascadia, it could push 8+ MPG as well. The aerodynamics do play into it for sure, a long nose Pete of Kenworth is like a brick in the wind.
One thing I must add is the newer emissions packages are way cheaper to replace as well. A pre 2017 Volvo full DOC, DPF, SCR is like 4 times the cost of a full 2018+ 1-box system. I cringe when I hear the prices to replace this stuff for customers. No wonder they want to run Pre-emission stuff (if they're lucky to find anything worth running).
Piece of mind of having a paid for truck, can’t put price on piece of mind. I can go to vacation for a month and I come back and no big payment. No having to take cheap loads because I have to make money to make the payment.
