The Ultimately Forgotten Origin Of The MCU 

MC2 was great. As was 2099. And you're right. The imprints the spider-people supported usually never lived up to their successes.

IIRC Spider-Man 2099 didn't launch 2099 by itself; there were also Doom 2099, Ghost Rider 2099 and a couple others that started around the same time

@@nadavwex Pretty sure the story was the Spider-Man 2099 was the original idea and it was expanded on as a gimmick. Only one survived though... I was reading comics back then, they told the story of how they came up with the idea somewhere, probably in one of the 2099 comics letters section.

What MC2, I tried to google it and can’t find anything

@@10willybilly and alternate comic continuity with aged-up characters like a retired Spider-Man

I mean, there's a LOT of 616 in the early MCU as well. New Avengers is very inter-related to the movies, as is the Warren Ellis and Matt Fractions Ironman runs. Same thing with the J. Michael Strazynki Thor stuff. They pull from all over. But the aesthetic and tone (other than maybe some of the comedy stuff) is pretty directly pulled from the comics

I was expecting Tom Holland's Peter to die once he became an avenger

@@OdaKa he did if you think about it. I don’t wanna go….

​@@OdaKa He did in infinity war.

@@Salik96 oh yeah that's right, I guess that counts. But also kind of not since a bunch of others died from the same thing. I was talking about actually dying though

Exactly

Only because you think they're funny and quippy. If you look at their backstories they're almost all aholes like the ultimates but they have mostly off camera redemption arcs to, in essence, become the MCU avengers. Stark is an alcoholic weapons developer war profiteer that doesn't think about how many brown people he's indirectly killing, black widow is an assassin with a very large red ledger, Thor is an entitled warrior prince that wants to smash adversaries while never using diplomacy, Hawkeye is a government agent/assassin willing to kill on an order, hulk is a fearful conceited scientist that doesn't want his formula to be used as a weapon so he experiments on himself and kills who knows how many people in the resultant skirmishes he has with the army. Captain America is the only one who isnt much like his ultimate counterpart in temperament.

Right? The MCU may have been inspired by the Ultimate Marvel Comics, but that's only in the "aesthetics, feel and scope" approach. If they featured worst traits that were inconsistent to the OG Marvel Universe, it would have been unwatchable and a major flop. If anything, personality and moral-wise, the MCU is more akin to the aforementioned OG Prime Marvel Universe, Earth-616. And I like that more and grew up with it more. Plus, the Ultimates or Ultimate X-Men kinda lack the same wit, heart and soul of Stan Lee. The TRUE Man who made Marvel Comics. 12-15 year old me would have loved The Ultimates between 2011-2014; but adult me, absolutely not.

This. Ironically it was because of the Ultimates I hated the Avengers in the first place. Especially Cap. The Ultimates were basically government stooges.

Right? The MCU may have been inspired by the Ultimate Marvel Comics, but that's only in the "aesthetics, feel and scope" approach. If they featured worst traits that were inconsistent to the OG Marvel Universe, it would have been unwatchable and a major flop. If anything, personality and moral-wise, the MCU is more akin to the aforementioned OG Prime Marvel Universe, Earth-616. And I like that more and grew up with it more. Plus, the Ultimates or Ultimate X-Men kinda lack the same wit, heart and soul of Stan Lee. The TRUE Man who made Marvel Comics. 12-15 year old me would have loved The Ultimates between 2011-2014; but adult me, absolutely not.

@@maxxgunner5573 I feel ya my guy!

Mhmm

Totally. Well put.

SO... JUST LIKE America?

The book is a huge influence on all super hero movies and really deserves to be discussed and respected.

I’m stuck on why you put high school in quotes😂. Like does that mean you werent really in high school?

Except for the way they turned into jerks. That was kind of a turn off for me. Plus I grew up with the 616 comics more, it had a perfect balance of flawed but sympathetic and genuinely noble and good superheroes in ridiculous but cool colorful suits and risking their lives to save the world with no selfish intent.

Mark Millar in general is cynical and edgy, so this is a weird hill to die on

Ultimates 1 isn't too cynical and edgy. But that whole ultimate universe led into Ultimatum, which is exactly the kind of garbage folks claim it is. I do think Ultimates started with good intentions... but how the hell are you gonna kill off a teenage Spiderman and it not be cynical and edgy?

@@overthinkingloki Ultimates started off as an intriguing concept but, yeah, I think it went down the path of "to the extreme" and lost its way.

I loved Ultimate Spider-Man, is started sucking once they killed off Peter to replace him with Miles. Sales would tend to agree with that statement, as Miles run had decreased sales after the first couple of issues (and #1 issues always tend to sell high due to collectors). Ultimates was terrible. Hated what they did with Cap. X-Men was up and down for me. However, Spider-Man was the best.

the ending of the the ultimates was cynical and pretty terrible. but that took years to get to. They had almost a decade of preetbaold stories before that point. I even enjoyed Ultimates 2, which is often criticized for being too political.

Also: Kevin Feige: *Makes mediocre Phase 4*

@Chase Hedges67 all Feige did to turn the MCU into what it is...and thats your WHOLE Definition of the guy??

I’ll never forgive him for what he did for Spider-Man 3 😢

@@UltimateNut and he'll do the same with Kraven The Hunter and Borderlands

I'd say Jon Favrue had a big hand in that too

Spot on 🎯

Ain't that the truth. Ultimates 3. Yikes.

There's a sequel too, right? I've only ever seen the first one... I feel like I remember liking it but wanting it to have an art style more like Hitch.

@@Nerdstalgic There was a sequel that added Black Panther to the mix and continued the story like from the previous, and a next generation movie, as well as five movies for individual characters (two were for Hulk).

Ultimate Avengers

@@Nerdstalgic Dude oh my gosh, y'all just brought back so many memories of these movies. They truly were ahead of their time.

Thanks! We worked hard on it ! :)

@@Nerdstalgic you're welcome, keep up the hard work.

Yeah, these days Millar is kind of a parody of himself. And his business model is not beneficial for the ecosystem of comics and creators rights. However, he's made some good work over the years. His Wolverine run, FF, Civil War, even parts of Wanted were cool. Until it went off the rails

This exactly. The big divergence from Ultimates to MCU is the desire and ability to creat likable characters. Millar ruined most of the Ultimates and Ultimate X-Men characters by turning them all into raging jerks. He doesn’t seem to know how else to do it. His version of Cap is particularly atrocious. I worked in a comic shop when The Ultimates came out. It was very popular, but everyone thought it was an Authority knock off, and reader reactions were typically “this is awesome! I mean, I hate everyone in it, but still, awesome!”

@@AdronBuske..It's a parody to critique America's fascism. Just like Stormwatch before it. Cry more.

@@panthergod Perhaps it was Millar's attempt at satire, but that doesn't mean it was executed well. And that excuse wouldn't apply to his characterizations in Ultimate X-Men, which were equally problematic. Really, it's just the way he writes characters. When it comes to Stormwatch/Authority, Millar was following Warren Ellis's lead, just (imo) not doing it as well. Also, "cry more"? C'mon, we can have reasonable critical discussion/disagreement without resorting to teenage gamer cringe, right? This isn't fortnite.

Thank you. The Ultimates only inspired the MCU through tone and aesthetics, but it felt soulless for me. The 616 comics for the Avengers were the true best sellers for me. The Ultimate Marvel may have saved the company, but they still should have made them more likable. Especially with what they did to Hulk (a cannibal rapist, instead of a lovable sympathetic gentle giant who wants to help and protect ppl and fight for good), Black Widow (a traitor-snake who is hard to root for, instead of an anti-heroic assassin with a heart of gold and redemption and will to fight for the side of good), Captain America (a racist walking testosterone-poisoned cliche, instead of the kind and brave sympathetic heroic soldier who defies the 40s bigoted ways and make a good change of equality and justice), Deadpool (an uglier Deathlok knock-off who hates and hunts mutants, instead of the lovable, comedic anti-heroic merc with a mouth) and Wolverine (a complete sociopathic pedophile, instead of the gruff but loveable wise mutant who has respect for some ppl including the ones he hate).

Oh man it definitely killed the Ultimate universe

I think the overly dark and unrealistic take on the Avengers, I mean, "The Ultimates," by turning them into major butt-holes without being faithful to the OG vision from Stan Lee, personality and morality-wise is what kinda killed the Ultimate Universe for me.

Agreed! Well put!

100 percent. The Authority is basically what Millar and Hitch were riffing on with Ultimates. Absolutely.

@@Nerdstalgic Ultimates is a direct thematic sequel to Authority and Stormwatch by Ellis and Millar.

What Ultimates 3? The series ended on a high note with book 2 and no one ever heard of a lazy, parodic 3rd installment

Ultimates 3? I don't think there is a third book where Sabertooth screams SUCK IT while punching a dinosaur. I'm pretty sure the book just ended at 2.

3 had some interesting ideas, but I feel it was rushed. If it had been the scope of 1 and 2, it would have been a lot better, but they didn't have enough issues, so things moved too fast.

@@Nerdstalgic great video and answer, Nerdstalgic, please read my suggestions for future videos: 1) What makes Lalo Salamanca a terrifying villain. 2) What makes Kilgrave a terrifying villain. 3) How Cobra Kai honors Karate Kid. 4) The perfect finale of The Wire. 5) What makes Homelander so scary. 6) Why is Game of Thrones finale so disappointing. 7) Agents of Shield - The most underrated live action superhero show. 8) Superman TAS - The most underrated animation superhero show. 9) Why Hellboy 1 and 2 were ahead of their time. 10) Why The Leftovers' finale is perfect. 11) Legion - The perfect X-men show nobody talks about. 12) What makes Arcane so special.

@@SuddenReal no doubt, the set up from 2 and the idea of magneto's children having to fight him in open battle is great. However, the problem was more the writer than anything else. Loeb proved to fundamentally misunderstand the characterization. Instead of big personalities brushing up against each other, but ultimately coming together in service of the noble ideal of heroism, we just got a bunch of assholes who hated each other

I've always found the Hulk is so hard to write for movies. Unless it's Gray Hulk, or Professor Hulk, etc. how do you make mindlessness something the audience invests in? You'd be making a Godzilla movie.

Umm, him knowing of the possibility would be no different than us knowing of the possibility. You’re thinking too much.

The multiverse has been a theory for decades and isn't just exclusive to comics. So, while Mysterio didn't know that there actually is a multiverse, he does know of the theory of alternate dimensions. And don't forget, the oldest trick to con someone is to tell them a lie so incredible to believe it must be true.

Also, it was wrong, cause I believe they gave an official number to the MCU Earth and it's not 616, so it was clearly just a nod in the script.

@@Shalalacls indeed. MCU is 19999

@@Shalalacls It was a clever insert, one that made the casual fanboy go "hey, reference!" while it made the smarter fanboy go "hang on, that's not right..."

Exactly if you read the comics you know the Avengers were important in the Marvel universe. It was only till the movies the Avengers became mainstream

@@petermj1098 All the cool marvel villains like thanos, ultron, kang, the masters of evil korvack, Loki are all avengers villains, but people still want to say they were a b lister team.

Stormwatch before the Authority.

Yes. It is

@@chasehedges6775 lmao. The hubris in this comment section is embarassing.

🙄

True.

@@jamcalx it's not true. This person is just hopping on the "it's cool to shit on the MCU now" bandwagon

@@Devils_Lair_Comics I actually happen to agree, because I worry that the MCU would start to lose luster eventually when they got bought by Disney. Whether or not it's for the reasons you say or not neither of us can say, but his statement is an appt one in my eyes.

@@jamcalx it’s been owned by Disney for almost its entirety

Yeah, the hulk eating a dude was pretty funny, the other two... not as big a fan of. the 2000's man. They were EDGEYYYYY.

@@Nerdstalgic Yes... the cannibalism part is the Hulk eating the Skrull... definitily not the Blob eating the Wasp... Because that was just... God no...

And the MCU was doing awesome.

Even under Disney, they had some good products, but the Stan Lee died…

@@chasehedges6775 well if you consider that they already had those projects lined up before lee died, then they still were their own stuff till the start of phase 4. with the disney+ stuff

@@princeampadu8739I would say when Isaac Perlmutter was demoted to marvel tv front being the head of marvel is when Disney got more say in the movies and they went down to being unwatchable movies and really showed the movies can’t stand on there own cause of how they interconnected the movies the connections to other movies should move the plot a lot not stop the movie to make the reference to another movie

@@chasehedges6775 phase 4 is doing quite well at least commercially, 5.5 billion with wakanda forever being the 7th film and final film. It best out phase 1 3.8 billion and phase 2 5.2 billion without any iron man, cap, or avengers movies during this phase

Or Kingdom Come over at DC, a non stop blockbuster spectacle that came out several years before The Ultimates.

@@craigjomaia Or JLA by Grant Morrison, which Authority was a direct challenge to.

They seem do be doing a pretty good job knowing when to deviate and when to build on the source material. Werewolf By Night was fantastic, and She-Hulk is a pretty spot on thematic representation of the Byrne era comics.

Spidey is the weirdest adaptaion because MCU Spidey is basically Pete living Miles' life. Ned is obviously Ganke and the school and much of the rest are straight lifts from Miles Morales Spider-Man.

They do they are just not popular knull is the most popular one though miles is popular because of Spider-Man can’t say the same for Jessica Cruz , Kamala khan , America Chavez , riri Williams they just reskins tho

Still one of the best Marvel films and superhero films of all time.

Yeah, no. Snyder already tried that with Justice League, a Wildstorm esque JL. No. They need to ground it in Kingdom Cone visually and Morrison’s JLA thematically, with aspects of Authority/ Elite to contrast the edgelord stuff vs classical heroism.