Seamless, I just want to say that your tutorials have opened me up to entirely new realms of music, sound design, and the creative process. You explain terms that are completely foreign to me with such a high degree of the very elegance that you described in this video. I leave each video not only with new understanding, but with a new sense of wonder, amazement, and a thirst to learn even more. To me, your tutorials and explanations are, quite simply, beautiful. Thank you for sharing your knowledge with all of us - you've been a godsend. I hope you continue sharing with us for a long time to come.
Simplicity can sometimes be made into the most beautiful things. Once you find the right balance to make people interested and not over complex to deter, you've developed something worth the effort.
I'm still rewatching this video regularly to also reflect on this topic. What this boiled down to in my mind is - since every single rigid strategy is usually a bad thing, "making things the hard way" is a bad strategy for the task of making music. Because A, you can push yourself away from a better artistic choice because it may feel cheaty - as anyone who's past the valley of despair on Dunning-Kruger chart, you will at times get the imposter syndrome, and this is a terrible combo - feeling what you are doing is easy => doubting if it's worth anything. *Yes, yes it is, you worked really hard for this to be easy for you.* And B, it may lead to a bad professional choice, because, in most areas of activity, people work with tasks and deadlines. Music, as well as other forms of highly creative art things, is really hard to define and formalize in a task document. Knowing what easy things can be done, especially early on in production, can drastically increase your ability to produce reliably. Thank you SeamlessR for continuously giving us food for thought.
The closed captions on this video are hilarious. I really appreciate what you have to say, Seamless. What you're saying correlates not only to the music industry, but everything. It's inspiring and comforting to know that someone else shares the same feelings of frustration, appreciation, etc. about success.
SeamlessR, you're helping producers and consumers alike; your ideologies are what society needs right now. The concept of effort, definition of experience, differentiating between talent and work ethic, these are all things MANY people have no clue about.
So that leaves tutorial-makers in a weird place. Are tutorials helping because they show people how to do things? Or are they hurting, because they "ruin the magic" behind some of the cooler things in music? Which do you think is more important?
ShalMusicFX I am a firm believer that the faster people understand how to do the crazy "magical" stuff, the faster they'll take that foundation and come up with something even crazier. Innovation is stagnated when no one shares techniques.
My favorite person to listen to when it comes to music production and sound design. I've learned so much from you since December 2014, Seamless. Thank you for doing what you do. :)
Loops are getting bigger and bigger in the industry these days, especially in cinematic music, sites like 8dio and Sonikinetic are starting to specialise in creating 'rhythmic suites' and 'creation kits' (aka loops) for people to use to make music without having to actually compose melodies and rhythms themselves. I got a pack called '8Dio Dubstep' once cause the music that was composed on the site to promote the pack sounded freeking amazing, but I got it and it was literally a Kontakt file with sections of the stem files from those tracks (like lead phrases and wob loops) I don't mind loops and presets being used in music, but the way it's going now it's going to mean that the 'effort' that goes into the actual creativity and composition process will be unnecessary
***** It's all about how creative you are. Try to think outside the box. You can actually use almost ANY audio material to your advantage, no matter what it's originally MEANT to be used for. With construction kits, you can use following four methods to make them unique: reverse & chop & slice & pitch shift. You can create wonders with just that! If you want one shot drums, just crop the kicks, snares and hihats from the loops and voila: you have a single shot drum collection in no time! Just think outside the box.
***** i bet at least 50 people for each construction kit have exactly the same track because they all did that. They'll probably call it 'epic dubstep' or something even though it isnt dubstep. thus is how you tell the n00bs apart from the amateurs/pros.
+phortify 6 months ago but ah, who cares! Anyways, I think it depends on which sample packs. I can tell you that I use LOTS of sample packs for drums, claps, hi-hats and so on. I could not get it in any other way, I'm not professional in sound design, and when I do try, it is mostly synths and leads and that kinda stuff. If you have the ability to sound design backwards every sound you hear, well you are in a very good level, I'm not in that level :(. I once talked to a big producer who travels around the world and told him about sound designing. He told me that: " I found sample packs as a gift. At the end of it, I will put the effort to make the exact same sound, so why won't I just used an already built one?, if I don't find what I want, I would create it." and it is kinda true... it is very hard to be "unique" and an abnormous way... so yeah you might sound a tiny different.. but at the end, it is your creativity who wins. For the people who take midis and sounds, put them in patterns, render and call it theirs.... well that's why they are not top1... and I do get the idea if someone does it, if all he needs is for a 100 people party, who anyways dance to almost everything and doesn't have a clue he did almost nothing to make it. Anyway, if you do see that... I'd like your help in recreating some sound :D tell me if you are willing to do so :D
When making music, I focus more on the melodic aspect rather than sound design. Maybe that's why I like your videos, because I'm not used to doing lots of sound design!
What you said about hardstyle is 100% true. I used to listen to it and be like ohh thats tong tong tong. But then i started producing hardstyle because I loved it so much and yes sometimes im just gonna be like: Holy shit how did that guy do that kick its fucking insane this is so creative, that guy is a genius, etc. etc. and yes i think it is true to say that you will enjoy hardstyle even more if you know the process of making it. Normal ppl will hear a kick and just think the dude did it magicly with black magic and his laptop but the producer is gonna know that that guy did it all from a 909 and that it is incredible and that he probably spent months on that shit
I'm glad you seem to have evolved since this video, and that it does not seem to piss you off... It takes a genius to know what sounds good. If you create something people like, and it works, you chose some good sounds. Not everything must be over engineered. This is eye opening, but actually another video, not this particular one, was very impactful. This one, not so much. But I enjoyed this. I love your content. Your channel helps me ! -Randall
As much as the whole sound design/resynthesis etc is very cool,the whole preset thing depends on what your focus. I don't think everyone has to design/process their own sounds, but rather can focus on composition. We don't expect a musician to buy a piano and modify it because someone else can also get the same sound. Producers pay alot for DAWS and plugins that come with presets already in them. That Massive preset may have been exactly what he was looking for! No need to re-invent the wheel!! That being said, a huge appreciation is due to the people who design sounds and presets for their own songs! Seamless has been very helpful in his tutorials!
This concept relates to why I'm still really impressed by old tracks by skrillex. Most of his older sound design isn't particularly difficult, but it's extremely creative and inventive in the way it's used. In the end effort only goes so far if you don't have any imagination
To me its a measure of both uniqueness in sound, pushing the boundaries of the genre you are making and to a degree the time it took, although time alone should definitely not be a factor in someones tentativeness to detail. I definitely think its always at a human level what we perceive as effort. Someone may innovate a genre unknowingly by making a sound by twisting a few knobs and not know what they are doing, but listeners can describe their efforts with supposed justification. I both love and hate the shroud that producers put themselves under to hide their secret "recipes", but i think i hate more the fact that some listeners don't even care about the shroud at all. Those people are just consumers, not listeners. I agree with what you have discussed 100%.
You know this has been something i have binged on when making my own productions. If i wouldn't make something so coplex and differenet it would be seen as something that is bad to other producers. Which is quite ironic because if you ever show your productions to someone out of this world of audio they will be amazed. It's weird and I think that is what holds a lot of producers back like myself that don't know what to do. We can either make something realy genric or make something too complex. This is where I thank you seamless thank you for explaining my briant to me. Fuck Humans!
SuperSaws AndDaws about the problem u mentioned, I think that not so experienced producers (with myself being there and I am still a bit there) do not have a certain direction for their song. I heard songs that give out the main idea early on and not have anything else to give or even have melodies that give no feeling to the listener and are there just to be there, if you know what I mean. People who are no music producers, are often amazed by really simple things in a song (like a simple 4 on the floor kick beat) and not giving so much attention where the song wants to go (for example, a buildup rise for a brutal dubstep drop or a really clever drum glitch). However, if you happen to have written a really meaningful and catchy song, you will get both musicians and non musicians to like it :)
I wish SeemlessR would apply effort into replacing the 'thing' in "is that a thing?" with Trend, Fad, Style, Fashion, or even In-Vogue. Can using multiple nouns become a "thing" again? Gaddamn whipper-snappers! lol
Well, in 2011 Stephen Walking has made his track "Top of the World" in which he used stock FL drums that come loaded, but that was 2011. He has made "Top of the World 2" in which he has changed up major sounds including the drums and some basses.
Effort comes in many ways, Ive been making a song a day (more or less) for 550 days. My songs vary from 20min spent to 3 days. Beauty is always in the eyes of the beholder.
life is about who you know, that's just the way it is. always do the best you can and make stuff that sounds good to you, who cares about everyone else.
I agree, I have been told off for using Fruity blood overdrive , instead of using wave shaper. Wave shaper is cool but it is different and takes more time to get the outcome I prefer.
Sound design is a really big part of producing electronic music however, we never get mad at people using a guitar in a acoustic song. It's not like you have to invent a new kind of string instrument everytime you make a new song. In the end it's all about results. For me personally I'm actually losing my creative flow when I'm focusing too much time on sound design. So I try to ride the wave of creativity using sounds as close to what I want at that moment and then I'm perfecting the sound afterwards or adjusting it to the specific characteristics of that song.
I think this is in some ways more accurate in regards to electronic music than bands. Metal bands generally are all the same instruments, and originality is 100% in the composition. There aren't any presets to use in terms of sound. So this cookiecutter music is kind of a new phenomenon, I think, because this is the first time everyone has exactly the same tools.
I see your point seamless, I know it's hard to get names out there as I've been making music, the last track I made I spent at least 4 weeks on and I'm still not happy with it but I decided to upload it anyway, (soundcloud callum storm) if you want to check it out, but I have a theory for animals becoming a hit, as you properly know about spinnin records being one of the biggest record labels they can build a lot of hype and they recently done this with curbi's track discharge, I like it personally, but the point being they have the power to make a normal track pretty big
great thoughts on this! totally agree with you, there's so much psycho acoustic stuff going on, or maybe it would be better called socio acoustic stuff.
4:55 Thats exactly how i feel when that happens omg :D #venturiantale made a song out of harmor presets and stock fl drums and i feel that feeling everytime i hear that :D
this is an interesting thought I've talked with peeps before, I've found that the benefit to "schooling" in the music industry and having that piece of paper is that it tells execs you know how to use preset 7…
The first time I made a beat in FL it took me 6 hours, and it was a very VERY basic beat. The second time it took me 3 hours, and the third time (after tutorials) it took me a few mins - again basic beats but the time it took reduced because i began to understand how to do it etc.
One idea that comes to mind is how many things can you think about at the same time. A million synths doing a million things at the same time is that better ? Does more always equal better ? To our surprise we can only hold one thought in our minds at a time. That might help us make better music.
Hey seamless. I got a question. How does the FL studio fruity pack stack up against the more expensive editions. I just need something with good sounds and synth. (not just pre made audio loops). I have heard some of the complex stuff that you have made, compared to fruity version songs, and I am not sure what edition of FL I need to buy to create in depth music. I don't need live recording, but do you think I need "Slicex slicing tool or Edison Wave editor" for more of the advanced stuff. I am thinking about the 200 dollar one instead of the 100 dollar one, but I don't know how much differences it will truly make. All I have used is the demo version and it looks completely different, so I am not sure what comes with the default or "fruity". I have researched a lot of DAWs and the top two are FL and Pres-onus Studio One 2. I'm very eager to get a better program than the Garage-band (i-pad version), but I don't have much money to throw at it, so I need to make the most efficient decision. thanks, and peace.
Martin Garrix got signed to Spinnin Records because he did ghost producing for a guy on the label. So when he walked in with Animals they signed him. He talks about it in his Future Music thing where he shows you how to made Animals, if I am correct.
I think this could be easily applied to a concept such as the DAW wars; in which since FL Studio is a much more user friendly interface it has less value compared to other DAWs like Cubase and Sonar that force you to use a specific workflow. Though I don't agree with such. I hear music in the form of a abstract art and the value of the art of the person and not a level of production value. Hearing things as simple as one sound out of an entire dubstep drop that holds a very artistic and unique value in comparison to everything else is what amazes me. Hearing someone who makes complex, non-repetitive drum breaks would be equally as impressive. Because of this, I only worry about elements to a song that are used that I haven't used instead of the comparison of the production quality of tracks and how much effort was used to achieve a certain sound. To me, it has to be perfect; even if that means leaving it be and using a sample, or making a 8 layered sound that takes extensive effort if that's what is required to inflict the specific emotion and sound that I am after.
I seriously can't agree more than everything you said... I for one have been using these tutorials to do better bass and synth sound design. I have been on the other side of the fence about this though. I used to think Martin Garrix was so good and had great design and then I watched his tutorial on how he made Animals and I laughed. All it takes is a pryda snare and an 808 and 25 minutes of your time. I think the idea of elegance is also a key factor. As I said, everything you stated was something I had on my mind but couldn't put in words. I do have a couple of questions though. When you say that the industry relies on mainly having connections, does the quality of music come in to play at all? Say I submit my music to someone whom I have no personal connection with, and someone else who knows this person/record company submits a song far less complicated/thought out/ musically correct (speaking generally in music theory). Does their chance of getting produced have a higher chance than mine because they have a connection? That's my main question about the industry.
I was just starting up a stream with me producing music, but after this video I am really wondering whether i should continue. Giving away how i did everything indeed takes all the hype away. Releases would practically already have been released on stream. However, i think i could learn some stuff and make connections. Really don't know what to do here
My first beat was made using Windows movie Maker lol. I would borrow sounds from other sounds and add them to clips of silent videos it took forever and when I was done I thought it was the coolest thing ever. But it is so simple in comparison to what I make now in a fourth of the time.
lol if that massive preset annoys you, have you heard the soudtrack for Ex Machina? One of the songs is almost entirely a single sylenth1 preset, with one note held down
Here is the problem with the over saturation of tutorials on the internet: There are so many producers getting over walls that they struggled with maybe even in the passed hour, that they feel like the one solution they had is the be all end all to every problem that is even vaguely related to that issue. so they tell every forum they can think about. "no no no youre doing it wrong. You're supposed to do THIS." tldr; too many music "messiahs" out there
Very nice video, seamless! Could you maybe make a video on "how to be "simple""? When I produce I tend to put way too much things into the song and have complicated chord progressions, even when/if I started with the mindset that I want to have simple chords that "dont change so much" (if that makes sense), because It would sound better in the end (for example in liquid DnB). Can you help me? Any advice would be nice :D
"I bet they hate me now" probably for all your tutorials, not this video specifically. but keep it up, somebody has to do it. who will make the presets in the first place?
i think u bring up a very interesting point, but at some point, u hav to remember music, even complex bass music, still has to be music, simple is good, a lot of the time, remember music is for dancing to, not for chin stroking.
*TLDR at bottom* The weird thing about bigroom is that it has super basic sound design, but also barely any melodic content. With most stuff, it's usually one or the other. Scratch that, it's pretty much _always_ either mainly sound design or mainly melodic stuff. e.g. Seamless does alot interesting sound design, on the other hand, MDK (Morgan David King, if you haven't heard of him go check him out) does very melody heavy stuff with simple sound design usually done with Massive. However big room is extremely simple sound design using unmodified presets and samples PLUS very very basic melodic content. *TLDR: If there's no sound design and no melodic content, what's the point? Why should I listen to this track?*
Tbh, this talk sounds a bit like how technical a song should be to be successful. I've recently tried remaking some simple, old house and hip hop music and though the J Dilla hip hop music I've remade is technically really simple, as an example, when it comes to getting the drums right, and chopping the samples in the correct places it definitely isn't. It's taught me that even simple can be complex or takes some know how if the focus is on something else like the rhythm of a beat, drum breaks and layers, chopping samples that aren't 4/4. For example, I'm sure jazz on a technical level is easier than bass music, however on a musical level it's more complex.
for everyone who gets mad about popular producers getting tons of money while making no effort, watch the flux pavillion against the clock and the point blank tutorials about his track emotional. you see, his massive sounddesign is like turning 4 knobs and be fine with it.
yeh, but its elegant, its clean loud production, its catchy and musical. its not complex. Complextro Bass music, isnt always musical, sometimes its shit,
Simple is not bad. For example try making a great song with as little instruments/mixer tracks as possible. The Beatles made their songs with only 8 mixer tracks if I recall correctly. Simple can still be genius, like you said, elegant. My opinion is that people who use presets have less chance of standing out of the crowd and therefore being successful, for obvious reasons. People who do hard unique good shit still have a better chance at succeeding than those who just use presets, that every producer can acces. It's like comparing a bad with good magician indeed. But a bad magician can still impress a kid by pulling a coin out of his ear.
If something sounds good why should I care about the effort that was put into it. In the end only the Result matters, why not use a Massive preset in the trailer if it sounds good. Rock music is made out of the same instruments almost everytime, so what ? It still sounds good.
What you all don't mention in the discussion is that eventually simple trends like these die very fast in dance music. All those 'genius teenagers', Martin Garrixes or Felix Jaehn's (even simplier) will be gone shortly unless they will progress and mature into different or more complex stuff or unless they do cooperations with fresh singers or DJs who will keep their productions up to date and suprising (which works good for Avici and others). Yes, they ride on the hype and some people will buy even shit from them just for the name but for me after Animals the rest is boring copies. Felix with cover of Ain't Nobody has done nothing with the track, just took it off Jasmine and she didn't even got half that fame and name for that. It all has short legs. On the other hand you have Armin Van Buuren who keeps his tracks polished and relatively complex (maybe not always trendy) but always at the top 10 DJ/producers.
4:54 Well I don't know how FL's stock drums sound like because I don't use them. Since you told me how to synthesize drums I'm making nearly all of them from scratch inside a patcher (or should I say SCRATCHER 😏)
the thing is, if you have invested a lot of time into making many vocalish growl basses and stutter-beats with obese drum hits, because you found it cool, the first time you heard it, then -due to your investment of time and dedicated work- you now consider growl bass sounds to be worth this amount of energy and time... otherwise why would you have spent so much time on it, right? the more time you spend on something, the more important you consider this subject to be. in other words: you re building a box for yourself to sit in. the more solid the box becomes, by spending more time on it, the less likely it is for you to focus on other things that you could find just as or even more interesting, would you work on these... speaking Martin Garrix: *for him* it was probably not easy to do. his stuff is not my cup of tea. but if what he says is true, then he made many incremental changes on his track over the period of months. we don t have to like it, we can be amused about the "lyrics", but in his genre (Hardstyle?) he apparently nailed it: The sound and catchy melody (a cover from an old tune) was perfect for his audience.
Also , some people are good at pissing around making Synths and effects. Should a pro level producer make all his/her synths, and program the DAW they use ? , Presets are a quick way to accomplish the task, I know people that can build synths but can not make music, I know people who can build guitars but can not play them. SO it is all irrelevant. If the music sounds good to the people who listen to it, it does not matter how it was accomplished.
