We only got 1 Voith here in Dublin. Its an 2004 AV398. Its sounds so nice and most of the time its got its fans on really loud. Also revs strongly when stopped.
I believe all the Commanders are on VDL chassis indeed, but they are fitted with a Cummins engine, not a DAF one, like noted at 4:04. DAF engines can be found on the VDL double deck buses and of course the SB220. Here in the Netherlands we have a large fleet of counterparts for the Commander, which is integrally built by VDL and called Ambassador, all Cummins/Voith fitted.
Hey guys, I think it is because of the setting of the gearboxes which makes those Voiths reluctant to go down gears when going up a hill. In Hong Kong, most buses with Voith gearboxes revves higher than those in Europe. Just have a try on those in Hong Kong and you may have a different impression on them.
Once in Hong Kong there were four examples of the 2-axle MCW double-decker with the L10 + 864.3 propulsion drive. They were designed for steep slope climbing and they did that well.
Boring is spot on. I don't need to read the spec as they are fitted to our Volvo B7Realyborings (my pet name). In fact boring from front to back, inside out, I imagine there will be an increase in accidents due to drivers falling asleep at it's tediousness. A far cry from our ols Strider bodied B10B's, also ZF but quick and melodic.
The revving up when going into idle is probably a "neutral on stop" as suggested by ZF, in which the neutral gear is engaged automatically when the bus gets into a complete halt.
What you mention as a ‘slight rev’ when the vehicle stops can be attributed to the engagement of “partial neutral at stop” which is comment on the Voith DIWA. All our buses at STO do it when the brake interlock engages (either due to opening a door, kneeling, ramp or simply the “brake hold” that engages after a few seconds). Oh and they are NovaBus LFS & LFSa models.
You should hear the Voiths on the Halton Dennis Myllenniums in Liverpool, for example, AJ58 PZK or DK04 JPJ. Check out the Marshall Capital on my channel if you really want to!
The rev-up (maybe neutral-on-stop) around 2:43 for the B7TL is typical of Dennis Tridents in Hong Kong and in Canada. And the Olympian at 5:23 ...... brings back memories of this type in Hong Kong in the late 1980s.
The Voith gearbox really doesn't like to change up with a VDL 3:30. In my area Arriva North east have them, but the Voith Box really struggles with this bus on a steep hill climb. I have been on one where the bus had picked up some speed, it approached a steep hill and the driver kept his foot planted in the floor and it really slowed down. The bus was so reluctant to change down a gear, when it changed down it picked up speed, then it was redlining, and a massive thump and it changed up :)
Some how thwe whine on the garder examples always seems to be better due to the different pitch of the engine and gearbox. Some other examples of voith gearbox buses are Mercedes O405 I've put one of my videos up and MAN 18.220 that usually reside with Stagecoach subsiduries. I do like them screming out when thrashed. Voith gearboxes do clunk more than ZF gearboxes anyday!
@britishtransport. Go on a Dennis Dart and you'll be able to hear a distinctive whine after the bus changes gear. The Allison box also likes to hold onto gears when the Dart's are going at slow speeds. Great gearbox on a great bus.
Some buses I much prefer a Voith for example a Volvo B7TL and a Trident have to be Voiith, but a Volvo B10M has to be a ZF. Yes some impressive screams from a Voith. All depends on the type of bus too.
4:38 to 4:41 is pretty much what happened to me on a VDL. When I was on a VDL Pulsar there was an extreme thump and then it changed the gear. I felt sorry for the bus though. It was on a 09' reg and the driver gave it Kickdown on an extremely hot day. Poor Voith box, they don't like hills on the best of days, never mind when it's being thrashed around like mad on one of the hottest days of the year. That happened to me in the summer hols of 2011.
@video47 I agree except for the B7TL bit, I love the Hoover like sound Lothian's first B7s made with the ZF gearbox, but I too think the Trident needs a Voith. So does the Dart and the Metrobus, but no Volvo should be without its ZF! As you say though it depends on if the bus is being used in a city like London or on country routes - Voith is good for flat places where quick accerlation isn't needed and ZF are good allrounder but very good for fast driving.
Those old Travel West Midlands Metrobuses ALWAYS did that clunk gear change, it was quite bad actually lol. It gave the bus character but it sounded quite poorly to be honest, i'm sure the gearboxes didn't do that when the bus was new lol.
No mate, the last Commander is infact badged as DAF, It was one of Arriva Midlands in Telford, They are the same, but exist with the DAF badge before it became VDL (only just)
Now I understand why some of the much more recent buses I've travelled on in England and in Sydney (oz) reminded me of LT Metrobuses - it was the Voith of the Patht! (sorry) But seriously, I can still hear the noise of the retarder on a 6LXB Metrobus in my head, decades after the last time I rode on one. Likewise I can still hear Nationals, REs (both Gardner and 0.680), VRs, LHs, 0.600 and 0.680 Leopards, Atlanteans, M-B O305s... Yes, I know need help.
Have you seen my video on CX06EAW, just search the reg and it should come up. That video was filmed in 2007, I heard this one again over-revving last July, it had been sorted in the meantime, and is probably fixed again now.
Don't worry my friend, one is being made, th last few weeks I have been gathering old footage and even yesterday I was filming for this video capturing a Dennis Dart unsure what gear to go into as it cornered therefore giving a classic clunk clunk clunk. I just need to find the best features, but have got a noisy Solo in Plymouth giving a nice squeel into second gear, all should be ready within about 4 weeks I hope.
CHECK THIS OUT! Two identical Dennis 10m double deckers in Hong Kong with identical propulsion drives, both running on the same strech of road with uphill. It turns out that their Voiths behave differently when starting up: Bus A: v=yN7BLzK_hXI Bus B: v=oUoPGOKtY0I (cue to 4:20) You can see that bus A revs up at first gear much more quickly than bus B when flooring off uphill. Bus A seems to have a bigger first gear ratio, probably 863.2, than Bus B with the more generic 863.1. Agree?
@bearchoirfan :( KMB has to retire all non-air con buses by 2012 :( I will miss them much especially non-ac Dennis Dragons (Cummins LT10 and the few remaining Gardener Leyland olympains). Will truly miss the 1997 3ADs and 1997/2000 ATS/ATRs :(, Majority of fleet will be scrapped by 2020.
cjflash 99 Quite a lot of trains like the 170s as well as some of the older trains like the 142s and the 150s have voith gearboxes. I know that the Class 172 is different as it uses a ZF gearbox instead.
Because ZF transmissions are unmatched in performance. =) Check out the technical data for the new ZF Ecolife transmission, and you will see. Boring gearboxes, though, because they are virtually silent. =P
Sadly now the software and Ecus are programmed for economy and makes them terrible changing up a gear only to realise it doesn’t have enough power so changes down again (especially if the vehicle is underpowered to start with.
Nothing compared to the racked off Mercedes 0405s with ZF's; any other bus with transmission like these I'd have deemed as worn out. How the passengers, sorry, Customers (ugh) can stand them is beyond me.
GREAT! You may rarely know that even Voiths could perform a lot of kick-downs. This one is something: v=JJYNZitBSzs It does get into second gear when going uphill, but this gear is certainly not enough for a 45-feet double decker, with air-conditioning, in the video. Thus plenty of kickdowns! Enjoy.
And if you want to hear an entirely different but nonetheless musical retarder try the one on a Mercedes-Benz O305 with the MB 3-speed auto + torque converter box. It sings... /watch?v=xN9Tb0EqJ2s
The C49HNF is really from Hong Kong: I can recognize the sound sense. Anyway, programs can be cleverly manipulated to allow Voiths to rev less between gearshifts, on even to allow a driver-operated switch to perform overrevving should the driver wish to.
No, the ALX400 is not Voith as that's just the bodywork. The Voith or ZF gearbox is down to the chassis it's been built on. Many ALX400 bodied buses are built on a chassis with a Voith gearbox eg. the DAF DB250, some Volvo B7TLs (Arriva, yes. First, no.) and with Dennis Tridents, only the Stagecoach or ex-Stagecoach ones because they order almost everything with Voith for some reason. HOWEVER, a lot of Dennis Tridents (including the ALX400 ones at Arriva The Shires and anywhere on the First network) are paired with ZF gearbox, so either is possible. It's all down to what individual operators who got these buses from new specified at the end of the day.
