Thanks for the great review and the feedback! The 3D printing was, and is a great means for us to prototype different ideas, and to gather exactly this kind of feedback. Similarly, the current version is using the Paspberry Pi Pico, enabling us to prototype and gather feedback, but it also results in the Micro USB. Later-on, when BT is working on the Pico-W, we may work on that and provide a wireless version. The design does already incorporate the space for a battery. Luckily we also have a great community that is providing us a lot of active help and support.
Curious that you removed the right joystick. While I understand the reasoning - well, Valve had the same reasoning with the Steam Controller. They thought for sure the right touch pad would replace it. But that apparently didn't go over so well, as they bought back the right stick with the Steam Deck.
@@logicalfundy my guess as why they remove it, is because of compatibility. Some games don t allow you to have joystick controll and mouse controll at the same time, if it s a steam game you can kinda bypass that limitation thanks to valve steam input layer but the gyro in those game can feel stuttery. By removing the right joystick any pc game steam and non steam, think you are regular user mouse and keyboard combo and there is no compatibility problem. Do i like it that way, NO i want both, or make it modular but i understand why they did it that way.
try what AlienWare did with their new NYX controller and put a bigger scroll wheel at the chin of the controller, that way you'll have more realestate where your current scroll wheel is for something else
Anyone who has played Splatoon 2 and also played a game on Steam knows that the steam implementation is better. Being able to release your finger from the trackpad in order to stop the gyro from activating and then resetting your hand back to the proper spot is awesome.
Agreed plus Splatoon just Emulates the joystick in gyro where once you've used Mouse gyro aim it's difficult to go back it's much smoother and accurate
@@thefirstone4864 I'm not saying a bleed switching to on a steam deck although there is emulation that you can try what I am saying is that gyro works better on the steam deck and Steam controller.
The 'pick up the mouse' activation technique you are describing here is what we call 'Ratcheting' in the gyro / motion community. It's always been my favorite method of camera control when using motion and so I've been using it that way for years now even going back to the old Razer Hydra motion controller for PC. The Alpakka looks great and I'm really glad they designed the controller around ratcheting, I just hope one day they make a split design version as that is my preference.
On the topic of digital triggers, I really love the GameCube and Steam Controller's approach to it. Dual Stage Triggers. They got both an analog range and a physical button on the very end. When using the Steam Controller, I sometimes set commands only on the full pull of the trigger, because I really like the feedback of the buttons. It's a shame that there's only 2 controllers that have this feature (Not even the Steam Deck has it!) and I would like to see more controllers use it.
The Steam Deck can emulate the feel of a Dual Stage trigger because its triggers are analog and it has haptic trackpads. The haptic on a full pull can activate to let know when the trigger is fully pulled. Not the exact same feeling as pressing the trigger button, but a compromise.
@@DaMu24 I wouldn't say it's good enough. Mainly because you can physically rest on the button, and that's a pretty important thing to have. The haptics are not good enough, especially since the Deck's haptics are located on the trackpads which is too far from the triggers.
My thoughts: * Interestingly enough, Nintendo has done some interesting things with motion controls. The Wii had the sensor bar, eliminating drift often found with motion controls. And I imagine that with two JoyCons in the single controller configuration, they could do a similar thing as both JoyCons have motion controls. * You don't need to trigger a button press when an analog trigger is pulled all the way down. I'm pretty sure with Steam input, you can set it up to trigger a press as soon as you start pulling. I'd still like analog triggers. * An angular design definitely isn't a strict limitation of 3D printing - but if you have something rounded the layering becomes more obvious and can look a bit ugly. Nothing a bit of post-processing can't fix, though. * Having a hat and scroll wheel might be interesting for flight simulators. But outside of a flight simulator, I'd rather just have a second stick. * I still like the flexibility of trackpads, allowing me to set up custom controls, from a virtual trackball to another set of virtual buttons - every game is different, and having fixed controls just isn't flexible enough for PC games. * I would definitely want the controller to be mapped as a controller rather than as a keyboard and mouse - because as flexible as Steam input is, it doesn't do keyboard remapping. You can map TO the keyboard, but not FROM the keyboard. * Thanks for sharing! It is an interesting and unique controller.
I feel nostalgic towards a cheap wireless trackball/keyboard I had for my HTPC back in 2007. It had a lot of weird quirks. Comfortable grips like the Steam Deck, a d-pad (for arrow keys), trackball instead of right stick (which acted as a mouse), mouse clicks instead of ZL & ZR and it also had a scroll wheel (which could be clicked) where you typically find the R-button on a controller, back/forward button where the L-button is usually located. I remember really enjoying the comforts of weird-, incomplete-, fusion-gamepad/mouse/keyboard-controller. I could definitely see the return of a scroll wheel on future controllers. either for fast-paced weapon switching, or scrolling through menus, or why not just use it for TRIM in a flight simulator. It was actually quite convenient and satisfying to use. :) And I remember the trackball being a game changer in FPS games compared to typical analogue sticks back then. :) It worked AMAZING for games which used few buttons and offered controller customization. But ultimately it was "incomplete" as a gamepad (but so where ALL gamepads in a time where the xinput handn't solidified yet). I have no idea why I got rid of it. Especially today when I am feeling nostalgic towards it xD But yeah, weird controllers are great! :D
Analog hall effect triggers could be set to actuate very early in the full range, and deactivate very early in the depress range. The wooting hall effect keyboard is said to be so good for gaming because you can do that for all the keys on the keyboard.
I've been browsing tracballs for a bit lately and heard the name wooting come up in passing, and you mentioning it here again made me decide to go and look them up (generally if you've heard a seemingly random name two times in good-graces within a week it's someone/thing that you should look into) and holy shit how are they not more well known? I mean a fully analog keyboard is one thing, (esp. for
@NerdNest here's food for thought: replace bumpers with clickable scroll wheels. Imagine being able to easily swap weapons or magic attacks and then using said item with the ease of "scroll and press"!
I dont understand why scroll wheels were never incorporated into the bumpers of controllers like the steam deck. Either physical scroll wheels or capacitive swipe scroll wheel with haptic feedback.
@@estebanod yes, I use it as that as well. Obviously I’m not talking about using them exclusively as a mouse scroll wheel that cant be remapped to anything else, it would be pointless to have 2. Im talking about the input capability of a scroll wheel to scroll, swipe, have steam overlay menus, etc.
the other advantage of the triggers is you are less likely to throw your aim off with the press. something i noticed in Halo Infinite with the pistol. was very hard to hit a shot with the trigger, instead i made the trigger the trackpad, also my gyro modifier button. Its a quiet action and alot more accurate than the trigger. This controller looks cool
I had a very similar idea: clickable scroll wheels instead of the shoulder buttons (L1 and R1), this way we keep the primary function of these buttons while adding new capacities to them. The problem with this idea is that scroll wheels occupy a lot of volume, so maybe sliders that spring back into neutral position would work better for a controller.
@@petrkisselev5085 This sounds pretty good, especially if we go with a 6-button “fight pad” controller layout similar to what Sega did for the Genesis & Saturn.
Hey Nerdnest, Steam has a new gyro as mouse mode in the beta patch. I tested it and it feels so much more precise and stable now. I would say it could feel like the alpacka controller for you now.
i want a steam controller 2 badly. i love the steam input options on the steam deck handheld, especially the track pads, & the option to set the back paddles as mouse or keyboard inputs. But I mostly play docked with wireless controllers, & even controllers that have back paddles don't have the same fuctionality. They can only reproduce some button or combination of buttons already on the controller.
I've used the PS5 controller for MNKB input via JSM in old-school FPSs, and it works fairly well for what I do. Really hoping to see what an extra gyro can do for more frenetic gameplay.
The Joy-Con each have their own gyroscope. The Switch has one too. With the Joy-Con attached the Switch has access to three gyroscopes in handheld mode. I wonder how well that is utilized.
Almost not at all, sadly. If you use the Switch in handheld mode, but swap out the joy-cons for more ergonomic controllers, like the Split Pad Pro/Compact (which lack any wireless or gyro functionality), then despite the tablet itself having a gyro, you lose access to motion controls in 95% of games. It's used in Labo, and I believe Captain Toad, but can't think of anything else. Not BOTW or Splatoon 3 for sure. Damn shame - I expect Nintendo don't want to prop up the gameplay experience offered by 3rd party controllers, even if theyr'e officially licensed, and even though they themselves won't offer 1st party Pro-Cons!
As a gyro controller player more on the competitive side of things, this may be something groundbreaking allowing us to bridge the gap between mnk and gyro finally!
This gyro aiming mode has been available since day 1 on the OG steam controller, it is a configurable option to activate the gyro when touching the right touchpad, if you play on the Dualsense controller you can also configure this ln pc to activate gyro while touching the pad
I've loved my Alpakka for a long while! The gyro is amazing, and I love the touch-activation. And I recently looked through everything, and if you build 5 of them, they end up being something like $25 each. :)
If you could make the triggers like the ones on the PS 2 where they feel like you're pushing a regular button but you can press it harder or softer and the controller can register that then maybe you could play racing games perfectly fine while still having the hair triggers for other games.
I would love this controller idea a lot, however im also an extreamly big fan of having 4 paddles in the the back and maybe replace the "scrollwheel and 8way hatswitch" with a customizeable trackpad that can either be used as "mouse mode or joystick mode"
Using a controller is preferred for me BUT I find after an hour of use this old man starts to get shoulder issues being stuck in that position for so long. Can we have something like the switch that can split the controller into two so you can sit back with arms on the chair and really relax?
The capacitive touchplate is very interesting however not having a 2nd thumbstick or right touchpad I'm unsure about. Relying soley on the gyro the entire time will put you at a disadvantage in my opinion against people using high sensitive right stick + gyro, flick stick + gyro or touchpad + gyro. But hey I hope im wrong, I'd love to try it myself.
I just set up my steam controller for tryp fpv - gyro - pitch and roll and left stick - throttle and yaw. And it works just fine. I enjoy flying. Not sure if it is suitable for fast racing, but the feeling of flying in tryp fpv is simply incredible. I've loved this controller since it came out, played a ton of games on it and still do.
I really like that dual-gyro idea. I was thinking along the lines of eyes - think of our current single-gyro setups as being blind in one eye. Wired-only I'm neutral on. If I'm at my PC I slightly prefer the wire just so I don't have to worry about battery. But I would never use a wired controller with my Steam Deck. Little confused about the complaint about micro-usb. It's maybe a little old fashioned with controllers starting to switch over to USB-C, but it's not uncommon. "Worst connector ever" strikes me as hyperbole. The input setup is a little weird and I don't think I'd want to use it. But it does have some nice ideas and I'm glad to see more experimentation in the controller space. The hard thing for me is that I still sometimes get confused with a typical XBox controller. Not that I don't know exactly which button is which, but remembering which button does what is a struggle. Especially when the game uses button combos / chords for inputs (like X does one thing, hold L2 and press X to do another). I struggle with that. Normally I just say "old man grew up on NES controllers" but that's a hard excuse to use on this channel :P But that aside, I think there's a place for extra shoulder buttons. The central face buttons look more usable than other controllers I've used lately (for example, Gulikit). I feel like I would miss a touchpad, as I do with every non-Valve controller, but maybe the extra gyro flexibility would make up for it. I don't really understand the point of the scroll wheel, and don't really understand the hat switch over a second joystick. Also, hate playstation-style separated dpads.
12:43 Do you know the remote control of the fire stick? It has a circle with a center button and I was thinking that this design would be nice if the center button was conductive, this way turning the gyroscope on and off, of course, the classic layout of the A, B, X, Y buttons would have to be sacrificed.
Gyroscope acceleration is what you were describing, that’s on the Steam Deck’s options The capacitive pad behaves the same way as the Steam Deck’s joysticks and trackpads basically The 8 way switch is basically trying to reinvent the octogonal joystick gates but in a weird way, I don’t see the point imo
What I'm desperate for is a left-handed controller for PC with a good analog stick and a great switch layout for the rest of my fingers. I'm picturing something like the Azeron, but different, as the mouse switches didn't work for me - I just ended up fat-fingering all of them. It was too sensitive and too tight. And things like the Razer Tartarus don't have an analog stick, so that doesn't work either. What I'm envisioning in my mind is like a small, short-throw joystick that you rest your whole hand on and completely move with your hand, much like a joystick, but with a shorter throw better optimized for character movements. It would have an ergonomic grip that the rest of my fingers can rest on, with switches right there - maybe two or three switches per finger. There'd be something like an eight-way hat switch or d-pad where the thumb rests. I wish I had the money to prototype something like that myself.
regarding the trigger : steam controller triggers. The steam controller's triggers have an analog travel with a digital final-press. They're normal triggers for their entire pull but at the end they physically actuate a digital switch, so they can work as both.
I love gyro controls, when i had nothing to play games with besides an ipad 2 about 10 years ago, i use to dominate in one of gamelofts fps games because i was using gyro for controls while others were using touch controls or using only a controller. I honestly think that a gyro for fps games is more accurate than a mouse because you have 2 points of contact and using both arms to aim so you have finer aiming than with just 1 hand on a mouse. On a steam controller I use the outer ring of the right track pad for really fast camera movement for those very sweaty clutch moments when you need to do a 180 faster than you can gyro aim and recenter. For me i need a steam controller for gaming or sometimes general computer use because i have RSI so after 30 mins of computer use my wrists are done, but with a steam controller i can go on for hours without any discomfort. This controller is a step in the right direction, because it's open source i wonder if anyone is going to improve on the design and button placement. I wonder if it has an angled design just so it can be printed on virtually any printer that someone may have.
I would love to 3d print my own controller. It would be awesome to customize everything exactly how I want it and use high grade components if I wanted. Just need someone to do the board and programming. 😄
Yeah definitely remove the scroll wheel That doesn't seem useful at all unless you were playing something like pong. When you're switching weapons you have a circle and you tilt the joystick in the direction of the weapon you want it's super fast in comparison to using the scroll wheel where you can easily overshoot.
There’s a few different firmwares out there that have already done the hard part, you just have to modify some config files, solder some buttons and wires to an MCU like an raspberry pi pico and you are good to go. You don’t necessarily need a custom board if you are willing to handwire stuff. GP2040 is the one I’m aware of, but there’s other ones out there.
Ive actually started using the steam controller again, I am finally playing breath of the wild and really enjoy gyro aiming. my issue with the controller is finding the perfect settings.
That was the curse of the steam controller. It is one of the best controllers ever made for any 3d game or mouse based game, but it takes setup to use it at its full potential. I love the thing though.
I feel like nobody has noticed that we don't have Controllers with eye tracking yet. What happened to point and shoot like the Wii. Only Gyro control in my house like that is my TV remote lol. Apply point and shoot to eye tracking and use gyro for look movent. A traditional Dpad, traditional ABXY with a Touchpad/Dpad combo on the right below abxy
It's extremely rare that I pick up my mouse. Instead, I have it set so sensitive that nobody else can work with it, but I can move the cursor across a number of screens with a minimal touch. And in fact, that's a problem I have with the Deck gyro: it doesn't go as sensitive as I want it (it depends a bit on mode, but it's never great). Perhaps having two gyros would help with that... (Also, I think what I actually do when not gaming - or playing a game with a cursor - is push the mouse left when it is at the left edge of the screen if I want to change where my mouse is centered. But it's hard to describe things you do subconsciously.) Analog triggers can be set to trigger with minimal travel distance in steam input. If they could be hall effect sensors to make hair-triggerness be unaffected by drift, and/or we could get sony's force feedback to get that click feel, things would be much better than pure digital triggers. Finally, you mention the idea of capacitive sensors on the buttons. The valve index has them, so you can be sure that Valve tried them on the Deck and decided against them. I don't know their reasoning, but perhaps they've already answered someone asking that question. If not, perhaps it's time to ask them.
IFYOO GTP01 / darkwalker shotpad, there you go. That said, flydigi Vader 3 as well. The Vader 3 has no Bluetooth lag, which has been a MASSIVE PROBLEM for years since newer Bluetooth versions, and even xbox is bad, while the Vader 3 is usable. That said, you're probably stuck using Windows to fully use the functions.
Can't play my twin-stick shooters with that. It's cool tho. I want to see a DualSense style controller, with two trackpad-buttons on the back, in place of rear paddles. Then you've got lots of room on the face, to put wheels or hat switches, or whatever.
This does look like a really interesting controller and as I have an infatuation with gyro controllers I must have one. The capacitive touch is the same as the right pad on the steam controller, but the steam controller and this one would benefit from a right stick for larger movements in fast paced games. But.. Ratcheting alone is terrible for larger fast turns, it requires the aid of a right stick or at least a 180 degree spin bind
I currently use the Gulikit King Kong 2 and love that I don’t have to worry about stick drift and the analog sticks are so accurate. I love the idea of having two gyroscopes and I would totally buy a steam controller two. Thing is, I had the steam controller and I hated picking up my finger all the time and it’s the same thing with gyro on that controller, you repeat strenuous motions with your wrists. I hear a lot about people having carpool tunnel and I don’t want that in my old age. I am a big fan of analog sticks. The continuous motion when you get to the edge of the stick makes it a lot easier to do a 360. Also you can get 360 movement with a joystick where you only get 8 ways with wasd.
Bad excuse for digital triggers, since we have case studies for analogue KEYBOARDS being better for gaming with the Wooting and the recent Razer that "feels like cheating" according to reporters like optimum tech. And we know ourselves that hair trigger mode from Steam Controller works well
A melhor solução que eu encontrei foi usar metade de um controle com a mão esquerda e o mouse com a mão direita. Assim, eu tenho o melhor dos 2 mundos: a agilidade da alavanca para mover o personagem e a precisão do mouse para mirar.
Yeah, thanks for the video, but I'll stick with the Steam Deck and a Duel Sense as a PC controller. I'll wait to see what the Steam Controller 2 will be, but I'm more than happy with what I'm using.
Really love the idea of a capacitive button pad to activate the gyros. But i think the scroll wheel and 8-way switch is a bit useless, i would rather have a joystick. The joystick can be used to replace both, i played a game Ready ir not, on steam controler and used the joystick on it for a radial menu with 10 option for selecting weapons and gear and when i clicked the joystick it turned it into a scroll wheel for menus, doing both functions with one control.
10:45 This is wrong. Pull the trigger of an actual gun, VERY slowly. The shot will fire waaaaay before you pull it all the way down, hence you have much less travel to fire than you'd think. Any game that has the full pull activate a shot is programmed wrong. Now, analog triggers cause very large recoil, absolutely true.
I really like this controller and want to use it but I don't have the ability to build or program it. I wish they'd just sell a pre-programmed and soldered pcb
I hope they improve on the Steam controller and not just make the same one again. As a replacement for a mouse it was fine, as a replacement for a typical Xbox/PS controller. The analog and buttons being right at the front made it difficult to hold and buttons were way too small for my hands.
@NerdNest can't make everyone happy and anyone losing their mind it wasn't leaks for a 2nd gen need to calm down lol they just got production caught up to demand start of this year and it still has a few regions to roll out to. You write your love letters if steam takes any suggestions it'll improve experience for hundreds of thousands of current users and draw in holdouts good video.
Impressive beard, ZZ Top fan? The controller looks rather weird and nice at the same time, reminds me of F-117. Maybe they should've called it, "The Stealth Controller".
Re the Steam Deck, I think Valve should provide detachable controllers. Yes, I know there are battery issues due to the design, but it's become obvious by now that the Steam controllers are not infallible. They need servicing, replacement, and that means a lot of downtime for the entire unit.
I play way too many racing games to be ok with this trigger. Sorry but that kills it for me. Xbox elite controller has a better trigger solution with the travel switch. This is obviously a shooter only controller
The Dualsense bumpers are big enough to be used for aim and shoot and is much more comfortable playing that way instead of using the triggers. So trigger stops wouldn't be needed in my opinion.
I bought the steam controller back when it went on sale for like $30 + a carrying case, intending to use it for fighting games. +3 years later I still haven't even used it.
I really like the Steam controller, I still use mine to this day for certain games. But I just really gotta have those two analog sticks for most of my games. The Steam Deck controller inputs/layout is IMO a perfect middle ground. If Valve is going to do another version of the Steam controller, I hope they use the Deck layout at least.
If Valve makes a new steam machine that's basically the guts of the steam deck with no screen/battery do you think it has to include a first party controller from them in the box? What price do you think they would have to hit (w/controller or w/out) in order to make it worth it instead of just buying a Steamdeck and docking it? If they could get it under $300 with a controller then it feels like it could be worth it vs buying a 64gb Steamdeck and paying for a new stream controller 2 separately if you know you're gonna play docked most of the time.
While this sounds like a good idea, it probably isn't marketable enough to people right now. Most people who use steam have a computer already, and wouldn't make a lot of sense to buy another less powerful computer when they can just buy the controller. I don't understand why anyone would buy a steam deck to primarily play it in docked mode. Maybe someday the gaming PCs of the world will become obsolete, but we're probably not there yet.
I think the Steam Controller 2 should have the same layout as the Deck but the screen should be replaced by a keyboard. It would be the perfect companion for a docked Steam Deck.
I just want a Steam Controller 2. That is ugly and looks to be over complicated. I want 2 joysticks and I want track pads. Throw in haptics like the Dual Sense and then add the dual gyroscopes.
@@NerdNest since I stumbled on your vid, I've been going in a rabbit hole and I think, there's this company from China called Flydigi who has released some elite controllers that can do gyro from hardware. Do you know of those...? Nice to see a fellow fan of gyro in fps and 3ps btw.
with the gyro, i wonder do you accidentally disable the gyrp when you press any of the buttons? like when you have a button pressed down your thumb is probably very close to the touch sensitive part. that would definitely be a deal breaker for fps games i think cos it would be cutting out any time you are mashing the buttons
I've always wanted to try the Alpaca controller but it's not possible to buy (as far as I know) the only way to get one is by printing it in a 3D printer and I have none of those around lol, I'm aware of the issues you pointed out but the two gyroscopes always caught my attention I wanna know how good they feel.
You lost me at digital triggers. Isn't the thing you're saying why it is like that for the bumbers? Now there's no analog speed/brake for racing games.
The steam deck controller is a waste of time for me my opinion I prefer using my PlayStation five or Xbox remote. They hook up perfectly. I’m used to using them so I don’t have to get used to the difference in the deep pad position and everything else but if they made it a little bit more like, the PlayStation and Xbox then maybe but since we have these other two remotes, I will see the point in fiddling with anything else
I’m actually waiting for my parts to come in so I can build it and for me personally I love the design it looks great I always found the more ps4 controller layout more comfortable then Xbox controllers and having blank buttons is better for me one thing I don’t like when using my ps4 controller on pc is that most games will have the Xbox controller prompts on the screen and me even know what to press still messes with me seeing the X button on the screen and the cross button on the controller
I am definitely not convinced. The more precise Gyro sounds nice but other than that it has a scroll wheel. The choice of triggers is just stupid because you can make analogue triggers work as digital ones in controller software by moving the activation point the reverse is entirely untrue. And if there is going to be a solo capacitive touch point to activate using your face button finger is also a massive design flaw. When holding a controller most of your fingers act in bursts and are idle the rest of the time but not your thumbs. If valve took any of the ideas from this controller other than the enhanced gyros it would hurt my interest in buying a new steam controller. Especially considering the steam deck's triggers were already a downgrade from the steam controller.
i been trying out nintendo switch pro controller gyro on my rog ally. so when i aim down site (hold left trigger) i activate gyro as a mouse (right stick) i can still use the stick but i can fine tune my aim.
6:20 I was gonna make a corny comment about my virgin ears, despite being in my 30s, but you even set it as a chapter title. Lol Check mate, I suppose.
For me, the design is a compete non-starter. That faceted look does not look comfortable at all. Those square buttons and hatswitches look as though they'd slice your hand open. I like they're trying new things with the gyros, but overall, this looks painful.
