The Weirdest MTG Cheaters Getting Caught! 

The drafted cards were not stamped ? I thought it was always the case in pro drafts

@@Lanta0dofun if it wasn't the case before, now you why stamping became a thing.

@@Lanta0dofun GPs were being held for barely 2 years at the time and the practice hasn't been adopted yet.

One might say that "Justice was served" on that particular day.

That is such a stupid cheat that I'm kinda inclined to believe him, because I struggle to imagine anyone with the faculties for magic doing such a stupid plan for one more card in your deck.

I think a lot of people including pros think highly of Olivier Ruel. In the same vein, a lot of people think highly of Japanese players and often look to them as the meta/trend setters in the early 2000s. Cheating makes you a bad player/gamer but that doesnt mean that you're a bad person. I'm just an optimist, man.

@@kobisjeruk naive is more the word youre looking for

@@kobisjeruk Morality isn't black or white, good or bad. People can be kind to some and underhanded to others. It would be hard for me to trust anyone that had no qualms with cheating, though. Some people just don't see anything unethical about cheating (usually with the context of "it's not my fault cheating is so effective, I'm just trying to do the best I can, it's everyone for themselves"). And those people will cheat if they can get away with it. Best we can do is make sure they don't get away with it.

Don't watch any poker channels do ya 😉

Yeah didn’t age well that dq. Sometimes with convoke I’d tapp the lands cast the spell and then tapp additional creatures.

The old rule was that effects resolved in "batches" instead of a stack and tapping lands for mana was considered an interrupt-speed effect (an instant but faster). It was really convoluted back then.

Something to note thats not often talking about this DQ is that cheating in magic at this point was extremely rampant including at this event. The judge at this event choosing to punish him for this entirely superficial play order issue over the real cheating instances thst took place that day shows how unserious said judge was taking their job

@@aidencorby8745 because you know what other calls this same judge made that day? you're talking out of your ass.

Before I write the rest of the comment, I feel the need to state that I also find the ruling terrible and nonsensical. If I had to defend the judge though, I would point out that a player could play a spell, not tap his lands yet, see if the opponent reacts or not and then tap different lands depending on the opponents reaction. Of course a smart opponent won't slam down a counterspell or say "resolves" until the appropriate mana is paid, but it's not unfeasible to think that someone might slip up if EVERYONE else does "payment -> cast" and only one person does "cast -> payment"

Back then mana burn was a thing, remember? The process for casting a spell was different. You had to have the mana in your mana pool already before attempting to cast a spell. Otherwise what it looks like you could be doing (obviously he wasn't), but it looks like you might be trying to cast the first spell for free, then tap the mana for a 2nd spell if you're opponent isn't paying attention.

Yep. Any attempt at deception should be eliminated in high level play at a minimum

@@damionwhitehead1165 but that's the thing, if i know what spell my opponent is casting ahead of time i can pay more attention to how he taps for mana. mana burn being irrelevant wether you casted the spell for free or you paid for it before or afterwards. time proved it was a dumb rule since it got changed later.

@@ShinkuDragon isn't this what made control viable at all back then? killing people with mana burn

@@wesleywyndam-pryce5305 i honestly don't know if that's how mana worked when countering spells back then

Some people just don't know when to quit, huh.

Waaat? Anyone know what kind of gambling?

@@joe.5103 poker - Japan has some stringent gambling laws

Gambling for money with games like Poker is straight up forbidden in Japan. For example, Pachinko (Japans most popular style of gambling machine) works via a loophole. Instead of winning money from the machines the players gain a currency which they can exchange for a variety of weird and mostly low value items (Like, for example, a teddy bear). However: Directly besides a pachinko parlor (Or very close by) is a pawnshop where they can exchange the prize they just aquired for money (and said prize returning to the prize selection, because the Pawnshop and the Pachinko Parlor is most often owned by the same company/people)

How is Hareruya viewed outside of Japan? (currently living in Japan and it's the only place I can reliably buy and play MTG)

I dont get how sunglasses are against the rules? If anything they help the opponent

That's such a cope, while yes obviously they won't get caught every time, pretending anyone that cheats is always bad is stupid, when money is on the line even the best professional athletes in the world cheat, why would a pay to win card game be any different?

@@calebbarnhouse496 i would work on your reading comprehension there bud.

@@calebbarnhouse496 I recommend working on your reading comprehension.

@@calebbarnhouse496 very non-literate take

Nice one

Thats nothing compared to the Selvala,Explorer Returned Panglacial Wurm interaction. So you can tap Selvala to add mana. Because of how you pay for spells, you can do this while Panglacial Wurm is on the stack while searching your library. So you reveal and draw the top card of your library. But wait. Selvala doesn't always add the same amount of mana. And attempting to cast Panglacial Wurm is legal as long as its possible for you to have enough mana. And so if you had 5 forests and cracking an evolving wilds to search, its possible you would have enough mana to cast Panglacial Wurm. But if your opponent reveals a land you don't have the mana to cast Panglacial Wurm. Normally this would just reverse everything. Except you can't reverse the Selvala activation since it drew a card. So a Judge has to make a ruling on if you used the search to gain advantage by knowing your Selvala draw, the Panglacial Wurm has to return to the exact position it was in the library before, and all other lands get untapped.

@@Dylan-vs6sf It's more that the rules for "what is a manasource ability" are weird and unintuitive. Suddenly, we get those effects that normally could be responded to(like mill or reveal the top card), but now cannot. Their existence is, at least, telegraphed by being always on the board, but it's still weird.

Yeah same here. The way I would shuffle is I don't look at my deck, I cut the deck in half and push both halves back together several times and then cut the deck and finally take the middle half of my cards amd and put it to the top of the deck. Some people thought I was cheating. Didn't understand it till we caught some players doing slight of hand to cheat cards to the top of the deck.

Correct, but lying to a judge is on him though...

Yeah, the Bobarygmos thing was just grimy, because everybody knew what he was talking about. Good that they changed that rule.

the borby incident was a player intentionally abusing the sportsmanship of the game, much different situation

Honestly I don't think it matters that he was warned, playing for a major tournament with money on line inevitable means your under a lot of stress, and that means small stupid mistakes happen, I constantly flip between paying for a spell before I show it and paying for it after I show it, because it just doesn't matter 99 percent of the time and even if it does matter when it comes down to it, like then the opponent that put the counter on it is the one who misplayed, he should have waited for him to go through with his intentions, before he casts a counterspell,

​@@calebbarnhouse496 The warnings matter because of the way things escalate. A warning isn't just a judge says "do better next time", but an official mark against that player that they're doing something wrong, and are often used to identify patterns of cheating. You collect enough warnings, it upgrades to a game loss, then eventually to a DQ. The reason for this is because people often try to hide cheats behind sloppy behaviour. (Plus it also gives incentive to sharpen up your play if you're actually making mistakes). Note that I'm not defending the rule he got DQ'd for (it was a dumb rule, and rightfully got removed), just defending the judging team for sticking to the rules until WotC changed them. (I'm also happy that he got his winnings back, and was awarded 2nd). You really don't want the judging team to be making up decisions on the fly.

@@simonteesdale9752 the problem is that it doesn't matter what the offical tour tournament rules for what is right or wrong, it's entirely on if it is right or wrong, if I go to the bathroom and come back to the table and I approach from behind him and I accidentally see his hand, that's wrong even if it is considered legal, legalility is never and can never equal what is the right call every time, you look at the spirit of the law, not the letter unless your a power tripping ego maniac or just dislike the guy, if he had a good reason to issue the DQ he would have used that, but he didn't so he used an excuse for it, the fact is the job of a judge is not to read a rulebook and copy it letter per letter, the job of a judge is to make sure the spirit of the game comes through, if a judge could issue minor penalties for minor problems fine, but if they are having a problem in a high stress environment it is not your job to throw away the tournament, nothing about it was righr

They changed the rule

Hence my confusion, thanks for the notification @@nemomoriarty4303

yeah i'm sure the disposable bot account is telling the truth about culture war bullshit

it's not a bad habit. it's fine (since the rules changed)

That is permitted. Once upon a time, it was problematic, so Wizards changed the rules to allow this.

I know basically nothing about wh, but ypu made me curious if there are like crooked measuring tapes, that mark 1 inch at 1.1inch or something like that

@@tornad8063 I know people use weighted dice and shit like that. It wouldn’t shock me to hear of a rigged measuring tape.

@@starmanda88 do thwy actually buy special over average dice, o just buy over 1000 of them and water test their balance?

lol thats what ith ought when i was watching. if my opponent just picked up theri deck and started rearranging i would immediately have my hand in the air

i believe, unless i'm misreading the rules, this counts as cheating due to bribery because of the prize incentive but idk how other lgs' do fnm but in mine no one really cares if you do smth like this

@@rizalplayingtheflute3825 ID ing ( intentional drawing ) is very accepted and normal thing . if you watch old pt coverage they will even talk about in booth. "math says so and so only needs x points so they can draw in the next y rounds if they win here" or so and so got paired doen so they cant draw in even though they are x-0 are both very common statements to here at higher events . some TOs even put the ID check box on the match slip. it is Definity not considered bribery or collusion

@@sethstephens4777 i agree. i think the bribery and collusion part of the rules just confuses me. cuz there is a prize incentive in the game mentioned above.

I've seen this (was also asked by my opponent for this myself at war prerelease as we were 1st and 2nd) - if you discuss the prize when you agree to this ("we'll intentionally draw to maintain our places to get the prize") then it's against the rules (according to the local judge). But if you don't mention the prizes ("we id to maintain 1st and 2nd") then even if tacitly you're doing it for the prizes. Cos you didn't say it out loud it's not a problem. I could be wrong though, that's just what a couple of local judges said. (I didn't take the draw at war cos I had a track record of beating this guy in pr finals, then I got destroyed 0-2 and dropped to 3rd. He gloated a lot about how we should have split but no regrets)

@@sethstephens4777 Wow, that is disgusting. Imagine people doing this at other competitions like big sports or e-sports events. So stupid for people to not care about actually playing and winning the game. What's the point of them to even be there, if they don't want to play and win???? It even robs other players of a fair chance to get to the top. Fucking stay home or spend your money on something else. I think anyone who ever does this should be disqualified from the tournament and get a ban for a year at least. It's like bribing the opponent. It derives the tournament of the spirit of the game, the spirit of any game, to play to win and have fun. To have a fair competition, both in the individual game and in the tournament as a whole. How is it fun to just agree to draw? Why have a swiss system in the first place, when the guys who win the first few rounds can then just lie back and intentionally draw, while the losers of the first few rounds have no way of catching up even if they win all the rest? How is that fair to the other players who lost maybe just because they got mana screwed or flooded or had a bad match up in the first few rounds? Bit of bad luck or a few mistakes in the first few rounds and you are basically out, they might as well do double elimination instead, if there is no chance to get to the top spots if you lose the first 2 rounds, because those wankers are just blocking the top spots by intentionally drawing and taking up tournament spots while not even playing the game.

Yeah that one doesn’t really constitute cheating in modern rules.

@@Playingwithproxies well now you can already begin casting without enough mana in your mana pool and then activate mana abilities to pay for it. Probably because of this event. My thing is: unless he specifically said, "I cast X" just showing a card from his hand before tapping the mana could hypothetically just constitute revealing the card instead of casting it. Thus not being a rule violation. Like I could, at any time, just lay my entire hand on the table and show my opponent every single card for no rule violation. So hypothetically how could you tell the difference between him trying to cast his spell too early and just showing a card from his hand just because?

I'm getting ready to make another video, and how much people are going to dislike that.

@@PleasantKenobi can you include that pile shuffling was how many of us used to shuffle when we were small babies and the cards were too big for our hands?

You clearly didn't watch the video properly

IMO it wasn't so much a judge on a power trip, but a judge enforcing a stupid rule that escalated. Mills was technically cheating by the rules of the time, and had been warned repeatedly.