Lol 100% neocon bullshit to justify supporting dictators, supporting Saudis who export wahhabism all over the world and murdering hundreds of thousands of people while claiming its about supporting democracy and western values
Fighting wars are a terrible way to make friends. They can be necessary as freeing foreign citizens from tyranny and theocracy is moral action in many contexts, but it’s not as straightforward as they’ll like us when we win.
@@coena9377 fighting wars is the only way to make reliable friends. the strongest allies of the USA are the ones they either defeated in war, or helped in a war, or promise to help in the case of a war
Didn't work in Iraq. In fact it had the opposite effect. Didn't work in Korea. Didn't work in Vietnam. It's a nice sentiment though and I happen to be of the belief that if they're gonna hate you no matter what you do then you do what is true to your character. At least that way your can respect yourself.
This is one of my favorite Toby rants, but it's rather oddly in conflict with what I would have otherwise presumed to be his perspective on Middle Eastern foreign policy.
That's part of the idea: Toby is in conflict with how he feels on many things, this included. Of course he's not a warmonger - and remember, he's speaking to his ex-wife here, not just a congresswoman. He knows ice cream cones are crucial to diplomacy and democracy, but his patience has worn thin.
The characters in this series were complex and very difficult to pigeonhole into distinct categories. Toby is 1000% right about this issue, by the way.
I wonder if anyone who has watched this understood the subtext. (I hope I don’t appear as an as who knows it all. Just IMO, being from the Middle East, close to the Med
"Why does the US have to take every Arab country... out... for an ICE CREAM cone?!" Probably my favourite line of the entire series. Pity Sorkin ruined it by reusing it in _The Newsroom._
The opening scene of The Newsroom was great. He brought the problem of American values and individual character to the forefront. He broke everyone down, said they used to be better; and implied they could be again. Best speech ever.
We didn't have to tell Italians that our fight was with Mussolini because Italians and many Americans shared the same culture in many respects. We didn't otherize German-Americans and Italian-Americans like we did to Japanese-Americans.
We did. Because their culture WAS different and if they want to move to a different culture, they need to conform. I can’t believe saying that sounds « fascist » to people my age when the West says it, but acceptable for any other culture.
that was the only cringe worthy line from toby, i agree with most of what he said. But putting down someone in dirt and then telling them you are better because this is what you can do. that will only get you enemies.
@@s1lm4r1l6 Far more than you. A pro Israel Jew in the terror worshipping DNC? He would have resigned in disgust rather than share a platform with Rashida Tlaib.
I agree with Toby.i go even futher, our values are superior. When our values make every citizen equal, when we have equality of the sexes (men and women) in all. When our LGBT fellow citizens are treated like the straight people in all (marriage, adoption rights,...)When our elected official are sworn an secular oath without a Bible or Quran.Then i believe i believe the values of my country are superior.
i did not see you comment last year, but saying a value is superior to another value is out of mind, not to say stupid, Cmon for God sake, look at the US public policy, not futher, americans cant have the same vision on substantial issues, homosexuality, abortion, same sex marriage, racism, is it because the values of the republicans are better than the democrats values??? talking about the alies, are american military intervention under the cover of humanitarian intervention is better that european or chinese diplomacy based on non military intervention, which values are superior. And to end that since arabs and muslims are involved, i am an arab and a muslim, and i think that much of what Tobby said is true, he mixed ideoplogy and reality at the same time, but what Tobby has forgotten to mention is that the values of Islam are not what some extremists try to export to the world, the Coran started with one work, " iqraa" wich is" learn" and thats the core of everything, we dont read, we do not learn, we do not even learn our holly book carfeully, and we dont not show to other cultures, to other people what is the core of our faith, that has put the muslim civilisation ahead thanks to science, philosophy and arts developed in 7 centries, where people from all religious backgroungs live together, that was islam practiced by muslims, thats muslim values.
2 things.......... 1) This video was only loaded on March 14th 2017. 2) A different video of this exact scene was loaded more than 8 years ago and got more than 3,000 comments before the account was taken down.
1:05 .............the MOST INFURIATING single line of speech from the entire first 2 or 3 seasons of The West Wing when I watched it way back in 2000 or 2001 the FIRST time I watched this episode. If I had been in that room not knowing what Toby was going to say I would have walked out and not come back........... For those that MIGHT NOT want to admit it, THIS ONE LINE might be one of the simplest explanations for why 9/11 occurred.
I feel like Toby would either not be like this today or wouldn't be a democrat. The left has gone so far off the rails it's hard to imagine him saying "you can be whatever sex you want"
Nah, it's extremely easy to imagine him pontificating with precisely the same passion that his enemies are backward savages for not realizing the obvious scientific truth that men are actually women if they _believe_ hard enough, and this pinnacle of Western values must be brought to the rest of the world by fire and sword. Pretty much _every_ Democrat in the US Congress now holds this view.
They'll like us when we win. Any country ever given a taste of self government ever, always chose self-government. Every massive social program has been almost impossiible to repeal because once people saw what it government could do for them they wondered why they hadnt had the help all along. When they can read anything they want, can eat anything they want, can be free of mobs who commit honor killings because they wore the wrong kind of religious dress, they'll like us then. They'll like us when they're free. You don't argue with a prisoner telling him how great the outside he's never seen is. You drag him outside.
this was a pretty bad scene because not only is he wrong. but he’s condescending and a chauvinist. american exceptionalism is a hell of disease. the west wing was pretty bad when it came to dealing with imperialist issues. news flash, they’ll hate you when you win.
news flash, they'll like us when we win, we just were never were prepared to win. If invading and creating democracies worked 80 years ago it can work now, we just need to be willing to do it
Its amazing you projected American exceptionalism into this speech. Have you even thought about what its like to not be able to disagree with someone over fear of imprisonment or worse? They'll like us when we win. The values of enlightenment aren't meant just for the west they're meant for everyone to have a say in how they are governed, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights. When they can read a history book, that does more than simply praise authority. When they can eat whatever they want without fear of an honor killing. When they can safely govern themselves and have a voice in their own government. They'll like us when we win.
@robertcellucci8224 exactly. When countries like China or Japan prosecute you or even the former making you disappear just for simple questioning or simple criticisms regardless if it's based in truty or not, makes you ignore enlightement then boy let's hope the US doesn't end this way. Amazing how the US is condemned when other countries condemn you, prosecute or even kill you for having the "wrong" opinion.
