This is a request from a fan who wanted to see this scene. I havent seen this episode in a long time so I think she leaked personal medical details of Leo's past to someone and got caught. Season 1 Episode 13.
@@TIB1973 I really am actually. Relapsed in August, and managed to keep it largly under control, but I’ve been fully sober since February. Finally started therapy last week actually.
@@One-EyedCorvus its not an easy road by any means but you can do it! Keep to the routines that works, surround yourself with friends who support you and you will get through it.
What I like most about this scene isn't the discussion of drug abuse, its two people treating each other as they wanted to be treated. The girl trying to protect people from a drug addict because she wishes some would have stopped her father, and Leo giving her a second chance because he wanted one too. So little compassion among people these days.
I love it ..but it would never.EVER happen.the west wing is one of my favorite shows..but its bullshit.no one talks like this or cares about the working man/woman.its sad
Had the absolute pleasure of meeting Mr John Spencer about 2 years before he died Told him I was a big fan of his acting & the WW being my favorite tv show of all time, he chatted with me for about 5 minutes about WW It was an absolute thrill of a lifetime & then we both went off our separate ways Anytime I see a scene with him in it I fondly think of that day Miss you Mr Spencer RIP 🙏🏻
That's really awesome that you met him. I'm really happy for you. John Spencer was an incredible person and actor, and he made Leo McGarry our favorite Chief of Staff
Clearly, you continue to win the argument and not 'want' 10 drinks. Cure is not an appropriate way to define the end result. You have solved a mental and physical health problem that you understand. And that's what matters and you have succeeded in accomplishing over the last 31 years. Well done.
They had some of the best skilled writers on this show. They were able to show the left/right conflict without demeaning either side. They showed here a human side of the show that often is over looked for views.
Im balancing physical disability and managing an addictive personality. Not easy on morphine and 9 other drugs that help me function. I dont enjoy drinking though. Havnt had alcohol in about a decade. Silver linings.
Yes he was. I love him so much. I always post something about him on Facebook on the anniversary of his death. My hope is people will continue to watch his work for years and learn from his great acting.
This scene and the one where he sits outside waiting for Josh who he ordered to receive counseling after demonstrating signs of PTSD and tells him the joke about the man who fell down the hole calling for help are two of my favorite Leo moments.
I am a recovering drug addict & alcoholic. I have been clean for 15ys. 8ms. 9ds. Each day I say too myself, just one more second with out the booze & drugs. I woke up in a pile of my own puke. I stood up and saw my reflection in a tinted shop window. I proceeded to walk home and throw all of my drugs down the garbage disposal. I then start too pore my whitelighting into my car a little bit at a time for six months. That was on March 7th 2004. I know I will always struggle with my addiction every single day. Peace too all my brothers & sisters out there.
When she says, “My father used to...” she doesn’t have to finish and we all know what happened. Leo understood and realized she needed kindness and forgiveness, not punishment. She’d already suffered enough.
This is a fantastic scene about alcoholism, my Dad was an alcoholic who drank for 8 years, nearly destroyed his life and he managed to give up in 1973. He stayed sober from 1973 to 2013 during which he raised and educated his 8 children and gave us all a pretty great standard of living. In 2013 he relapsed and for the last 7 years of his life his alcohol addiction again took over his life, he died last year with nothing in the bank, we had to sell his car to pay for his funeral. In the end I think he saw death as a final relief from his addiction. I have learned not to be angry at him for all we lost by him drinking again from 2013 but to be grateful for all we gained in the 40 years he found the strength to stay off it. Alcoholism is a curse of a condition that I would not wish on anyone.
My dad died last October of alcoholism after battling it for decades. For much of my life, I was like Karen in this scene--not understanding how my father could be struggling to keep away from alcohol. Then, in the latter years of his life, I finally read more about why it is a disease. This scene encapsulates so much of what is misunderstood about alcoholism and drug abuse. As does your final sentence about the kinds of demons that people who battle those illnesses face. Thank you for sharing your father's story. I know he is looking down, and is proud.
My mother started drinking when her marriage to my father ended in divorce. I was about six year old. My high school years were a nightmare. She started drinking vodka early in the morning and she would continue drinking, all day long. She kicked me out of her apartment when I was about seventeen. I was fine with that. I told her that I was receptive to having a relationship with her, but she needed to complete some sort of therapy, first. Sadly, she never did the work and she died mostly alone. I put myself through college and law school and did not invite her to the graduation ceremonies. I got married last year and I try to tell my husband stories about the mother I had, before she began her long relationship with alcohol. She was funny, optimistic and loving. I wish that woman stuck around a little bit longer.
I love when she's talking about her father, and she never finishes a sentence... It's so true to life. That's how we talk, just not how we write scripts. This scene, like many others in this show, is a masterclass in writing dialogue.
Just found this clip. What I realized today is about the girl seeing Leo as her past father, irresponsible, abusive and should not be trusted with Power. When Leo finally understands this, that’s how he understands what she did was to protect not to harm. Leo proposal to give her a second chance and asked her to give him a second chance is beautiful as these two people finally see each other having the same purpose in their duty. To protect others.
It's interesting that at the end, when he asks if she enjoyed working at the White house she calls him 'Sir'. Because he had been honest with her, she began to respect him again.
I'm wondering if anyone caught the line that he hadn't had a drink in 6 years. This episode is during Barlett's first term but Leo got drunk the eve of the debate in the campaign. I wonder if that was intentional.
"The problem is I don't want one drink, I want 10 drinks" "Are things that bad?" "No" "Then, why?" "Cause I'm an alcoholic" I've watched this scene dozens of times and every single time at the end of this exchange, I'm crying. I think it has to do with the beauty of such a perfect explanation of something that is often so hard to explain.
As an alcoholic in recovery I love how they wrote Leo. Obviously Aaron Sorkin and his own issues with addiction featured large in it but they really got the ineffable quality of addiction that is hard to make non-addicts understand.
@@Ares99999 I said that I like Liza Weil as an actress and gave my reason for that. How you made the jump to me hating Gilmore Girls is beyond comprehension.
John Spencer was a marvellous actor, and Liza Weill makes a wonderful scene partner here. The dialogue is affectingly natural; but the scene wouldn’t have worked nearly so well if both performers hadn’t been as strong as they are.
oh I know too well... give me a beer and I want the cask. Being an alcoholic is a long distance run. I am now dry for a year and just a few days ago a colleague innocently held a yogurt with strawberries and a little bit of Baileys under my nose, and I was right that moment ready to go to the next corner store to buy a sixpack beer, maybe a small vodka to get stoned. It is a ride... not impossible to make... but its fucking hard day by day... and most people around you don't get it. My colleague just didn't think about it and still, he was nearly kicking me off the cliff. This scene is very realistic and greatly played by both actors.
@@AgaPadar And yet you didn't fall off that cliff. Day by day, year by year, you keep the dragon at bay. I have never been an alcoholic but I have seen what it can do. You, sir, have my admiration.
now imagine you HAD to drink some amount every day. scientists have pegged some folks having same reaction to food as drugs/alcohol. (not all, obviously. but a LOT of overweight+ people show same brain light-up for eating food as taking drugs.) imagine you had to ingest alcohol BUT show restraint ... every. single. day. I'm not writing this to diminish your fight (or victory). alcohol permeates our culture and every day - every hour - you win is a hard win.
Sirs, I have watched this scene many a time, and it has never failed to make me break into tears. Today is especially hard as I lost a good and dear friend who also was a recovering alcoholic. I wish you two many more years of health and sobriety. As for my friend Peter ... may his soul be at peace now ...
nigelft I am sure your friend is at peace Nigel and I hope you will find some of your own. Please understand (if you don't already) that your friend's alcoholism (like my own in relation to my friends) was NOT your fault in any way shape or form and that by remaining friends with him despite his addiction showed true strength of character and compassion on your part. I am absolutely certain that if Heaven exists your friend is there and is busy putting a good word in for you. It's at times of trial when a man or woman know who their real friends are and it's obvious you were one to him. Take care and all the best to you.
+MrPeterpiper1969 Sir; thank you for your kind words. It is an odd thing, but I realise that ... he drank because he was an alcoholic, in the same way my dad /almost/ became one himself ... I say almost ... suffice to say events had a sobering effect on him which meant he never fell off that edge ... But what you say is true; if I am angry at my friend, its because he was like a mentor to me, and I miss his council. We were friends in Facebook too, and every year I still post a happy birthday; odd, I know, but having had a cousin in the Royal Marines, Semper Fi is something ingrained in me, despite the fact my age and disablities mean I can never serve ... but I digress ... No, I will never blame him. He sufered from a disease that kills so many; I just wish I had a few more years with him. But yet, I know that he is no longer in pain, and my faith reasures me that heaven does indeed await those that are faithful. I will remember him with pride ... you are too kind in your words about me; part of me feels that I could done more, but another feels I did what I could, and rest was up to him ... But anywhos, thank you so much ... and as they say, peace and longlife ...
Not an overly dynamic scene with over-hyped writing or melodramatic acting. However, it was an amazing scene because of its subtly. It is a very real conversation about alcohol and drug abuse and how it is not ever cured, but overcome.
Crescent City Kid tell that to Mel Gibson who he regularly defends and says he needs to be given another chance. Let say just because you don’t like someone doesn’t make a statement true....
Robert Schmidt Indeed. He understood that, whilst what she did was seriously wrong, she did it for sincere reasons. She was afraid that Leo was like her father, a monster hiding in plain sight. But what she found instead was a man of empathy and compassion, who understood the toll of living with an alcoholic, abusive, father. When he said what she did 'wasn't a little bit brave', he knew that she was taking a risk, in the same way any one trying to excape from abuse takes real risks ... As I see it, this whole scene played out against a backdrop of sincerity and magnanimity, something that so often is missing in politics, and yet another reason why I am so drawn to TWW ...
Except for the scene where the guy in the office pool is mistakenly identified as a terrorist. Leo came across as a fucking asshole in that episode, and didn't really redeem himself at the end of it.
COMPASSION.... this is what our society needs more than anything else. I remember seeing it and feeling it from others when I was growing up so many years ago; but, I don't see it as much now......and that's sad. It makes your family, community and life so much richer. The kind of wealth money can't give you.
I just love Leo for this. It is the exact opposite of the deflection and vindictive self-preservation we see so much of now. Magnanimity, is what it's called.
My dad was a high-functioning alcoholic. He developed cancer because of it. He died within 9 months. I was 24 years old. 3 years later my mom died of cancer. I'm 42 years old and I still yearn for his approval despite the fact that I both feared and loathed him. 10 years ago I cheated and lied to an amazing woman who loved me. I didn't really understand it then completely then, but I was showing the first signs of complex PTSD. It warped everything including my perception of the relationship with the woman who loved me. There is not a single day where I don't wish I could go backwards and tell my younger self to wake up and see what was right in front of me. Addiction destroys lives.
Dave Hobbs A few years ago, a good friend, and confidant, died as the result of being an alcoholic. The irony was he himself was an addiction counsellor, who may well help untold many (he certainly helped me, despite myself not have an current addiction), and his death has left a hole in my life ... sadly, although he was sober for many years, he fell off the wagon in a serious way ... I wished I could have saved him from himself, in ways that he saved me ... But I will always remember his sage advice; one, that all addictions, whether it be a chemical, or gambling etc, it is about pain control; if true, then understanding that pain is the most important thing in treating the addiction, and the hardest. The second follows on; no matter how many years you have been sober, you are still in recovery: sadly, as was in his case, some major stressor will come along, and before you know it, you are off the wagon. I will, and won't, say that may or may not happen to you. I am merely passing words of a man whom I greatly admire, but at the same time, wished I could have pulled out of his coffin, slapped him across the face, and asked what the hell he was thinking ... Oh, and another tip, if I may (a good suggestion of his, fyi ...): get a large jar, and, if you can afford it atm, put in what you nominally would have spent on the drug(s) you were taking. Once the jar is full, treat yourself and/or your family, as a reminder that, whilst you are still recovering, you are also sober, alive, and well ... I wish you, and your family, well, and for your continued sobriety.
@@nigelft indeed most people with any type of addiction issue are trying to fill a void in their life. But there is fact that some people have something in their brain that when they find something they truly love (like drugs) they just want it all the time. Just like Leo said "the problem is I don't want a drink, I want 10 drinks."
Dave Hobbs Exactly. What you described perfectly, as my friend also did, is that there is a over-lap between psychological dependency, and physiological dependency. Leo, being a cognizant alcholoic admits that, in the quote you cite: 'The problem is that I don't want a drink; I want ten drinks.' How I break that down comes from lessions learnt partly from my friend, and also from my college classes ... Firstly, having survived his alcoholic father, no doubt he bore witness to all sorts of horrible things. People, when drunk, can be really amiable; but on the other end, can be really violent, since the effect of the metabolites of ethyl alcohol is to reduce the brain's natural inhibitions. Long story short, seeing, say, his mother brutial beaten,watching his siblings being treated that way, and/or experience, first hand extreme behaviours, perhaos violently, would be enough to cause the kind of psychological trauma, which can only be numbed by those ten drinks ... But, at the same time, the brain is extraordinarily adaptaive; in the neurosciences, it's called neuroplasticity. I suffer from a condition which, essentially, causes progressive chronic pain. At the start of my treatment, I was only on a low dose of a single painkillers. But eventual the brain adaptied to that, to the point the pain was no longer treatable at that dose; so it had to be upped ... I am now on six different painkillers, including morphine, and diazepam, for both the nerve, muscular, and bone pain I go through, everyday. Having to go from one painkiller to six over the course of a few years, gave me a small insight into the world of drug addicts, that once the brain has got used to that certain amount in your system, it 'rewires' where the same dose no longer achieves the same effect. You can try sticking to the same amount, but once the physiological dependency kicks in, your brain 'demands' more, in order to achieve the same effect. So you up the dosage, and there is a quiescent period, before once again, it no longer achieves the same effect ... and so on ... Even when the the addiction is more around a behaviour, than a substance, the same effect can be seen. In gambling, this is the dopamine/endorphine surge in the expectancy of winning. I am not thoroughly, nor sufficiently, well-versed in neurochemistry, but from my knowledge of clinical biochemistry, I kinda understand the brain is capable of producing hormones/neurotransmitters, which have a powerful effect on the brain, and brain stem, such as, say, adrenaline. But again, once the brain gets used to experiencing the level of the surge in those chemicals, it adapts to the point where, much like a substance addict, the brain demands more, thus also creating the familar addiction feedback loop.
Dear David My belief is that we are seeking love in the habits and vices we use. But these things never love us back. As you look back over your life, do you see the love from all of those who have crossed your path? Try showing discipline, passion, enthusiasm, and compassion for the life you are living. It may be possible that you become so focused on the new you, that habit would be a thing of the past. Hopefully this is not taken as an offense. I wish you well my friend.
I'm a libertarian, I lean liberal on most social issues, and Even when they addressed guns, I never felt talked down too or insulted. The writing on this show was in a class of its own.
Not only a great scene about the ramifications of addiction, but ultimately it morphs into a lesson about loyalty. This young lady would probably be loyal to Leo for the rest of her life.
Great scene, wish it would happen more in real life. I like the fact that she doesn't say anything at the end; it makes the scene more powerful by showing that she is in a state of shock. She probably is thinking that she would be leaving the white house by catapult. She would be loyal to Leo for the rest of her life.
I love how he was kind to her. He didn't have to be he could have yelled and been angry but he just talked to her. He had every right to be upset but he didn't handle it that way. He was one of my favourite characters on the show and this scene is one of the reasons why.
Well, I am not sure he had every right to be upset, writing this six years later. When the Chief of Staff tries to cover up a problem with not just alcohol but also drugs, well, I do not see that he has any "right" to be upset that an honest person got in his way....
Indeed so. When Karen says, "My father used to....." and then a moment of choked silence. It's what's NOT said that drops the horror right into your lap.
She didn't tell press, she told a member of Congress whom she knew. The Congressman was the one who went to the media. She was looking for advice and the Congressman betrayed her.
djolpo yes that is true but it is important to remember, in order to actual have true investigation, one would have to go to the person who doesn’t like the administration. Likewise recently a White House staffer went to Democrat’s during a republican administration, because a republican might have swept it under the rug. It is also likewise important that the congressman investigate the accusations, however it’s true it was made into a political maneuver, but that’s unfortunately how change is made in the different parts of our government.
God I loved this show. It was the only program I'd record and re-watch just to catch all the nuances; eventually I'd buy the DVDs. My thanks to everyone who was involved with this program.
paralleler Go do; it is one of the few shows, which I would count on the fingers on one hand (ok, maybe a couple of fingers on the other ... ) I would buy the box set for ...
While I'm not an alcoholic this feels like the best description of what it is actually like, and I have spoken to recovering addicts who say the same thing. Truly phenomenal, writing acting and directing just because of how honest and simple it is, yet deep and layered at the same time, what a show!
No one ad libs or changes Sorkin's writing but I assume he and Spencer had a lot of conversations and this story arch was the result. Sorkin wanted it to be authentic and Spencer knew how to carry it and deliver the scene.
@@jamesscully529 and Sorkin was in recovery as well, he used cocaine during the late '80s and early '90s (he did later relapse, which is part of why he quit the show). So he was able to draw from his own experiences as well when writing this scene.
: I can't find her name at the moment, but the actress who plays the Woman Who Sold Out Leo McGarry owns the scene every bit as much as John Spencer. The back-and-forth was expertly written, and each gave as good as they got and made the scene say everything that was on the page as well as not. Great scene.
with a lump in my throat, I am in awe that such great drama once graced the airwaves. Nothing remotely approaching that now. Sadly so. And really great actors as well.
I liked the way they did the alcoholic scene with doug in house of cards. He talks about how many days he has gone without drinking as an alcoholic. Then he mentions that the number doesn't scare him but the fact that all it takes is one drink to send that number back down to zero.
I love this scene. I had an alcoholic in my immediate family. I wish that person had found the wisdom of the fictional character Leo McGarry. It would have prevented a lot of pain and maybe saved his life. It my understanding that the actor John Spencer also struggled with alcohol in real life. Maybe that's why this scene seems so genuine
I had a friend who died from his addiction. I never understood it. This show, and especially, this scene, put it context for me. 5 minutes on screen. Helped me change my entire view on life.
No matter how many times I watch this scene, my eyes fill with tears at the end. My father was a drunk. He was a drunk my entire life. I never saw him sober. I fully understand Karen. For many years, I have loved my glass of wine in the evening. I gave it up four years ago. So I also understand Leo.
This is such a lesson concerning crime, mistakes and the power of forgiveness. The judicial system is so wound up in punishment there seems no capacity for forgiveness and rebirth.
I just noticed a continuity issue with this scene. He says he hasn’t had a drink in 6.5 years. But we know from a later episode that he got drunk one night on the campaign trail. Since this is season 1, which is Bartlet’s 2nd year in office… the longest he could have been sober for is 3.5 years
This was a good dialogue, about important things, between two decent human beings who are hurting for different reasons. " ... a little bit brave." Damn good writing.
I show this to people all the time. I'm an alcoholic, and this is the best depiction of alcoholism I've ever seen. I'm alright. I'm actually quite happy, sober or drunk. I don't get drunk because I want to escape from anything. I get drunk because I'm an alcoholic.
And you'd be correct. It wasn't a stretch for John Spencer to play an alcoholic, as that is something that he and Leo had in common. It takes nothing away from this scene, though. Years later, I watch The West Wing, and I'm still emotionally moved by it.
This episode made me cry. End of. My old man was a fantastic person. I regret every moment of his life that I never told him that. He drank (in English terms) a fair bit, mostly beer, because he was trapped in a loveless marriage, he never did anything about it but gave up drinking, probably because he couldn't afford it. He died in 1985 and I still miss him in 2024.
A wonderful scene, wonderful writing, great ensemble acting, and story lines with a complexity and depth seldom seen. A few people I love have also struggled with alcohol and drug use issues, so I can certainly relate to much of the dialogue. Best wishes to all who have worked so hard to gain and keep their abstinence.
"That's not to say that I won't have one tomorrow" and that little worried glance down knowing that it's such a possibility...that's heavy enough on it's own
After explaining how his father died, Kara Larson asks if that was why Leo drank and took drugs. His reply was significant and could have only been written by someone who understood the barrier(s) and the way to overcoming addiction. Leo: "I drank and took drugs because I'm a drug addict and an alcoholic." Describing his childhood, Leo had just set the stage to blame his alcohol and drug abuse on his childhood. Addicts always blame someone or something else for their decision to use. But Leo's response here shows that he has moved past blaming other events in his life for his past actions and has taken full responsibility for his own life.
Having been an addict this scene hit home for me. Wanted someone who could talk with me like that. Not like a parent but as someone who had walked in my shoes.
It’s still amazing to me, how even after 20 years, so many West Wing scenes stay current. It might be a show featuring politicians and policymakers, but it’s a show about human nature, and a pretty deep one at that. It’s also aspirational, in the best way possible. This is how we’d like our policymakers to be. Sure, ambitious as all hell. But so, so deeply devoted to benefiting society as a whole, to equity and fairness. And very, *very* intelligent, all of them.
I love this scene. It's open, honest, human. It's also a bit of a power move. I'm convinced that this was written as though Leo had already made up his mind beforehand he was going to offer her job back. He just wanted to make sure she knew the consequences, and who was in charge.
@@patricelockertanthony7630 I'm giving my opinion on a character in a work of fiction. My perspective is my business, and you should mind your business.
One of the problems with alcoholism, is that it's a "solution" to other problems. There may be a physical addiction to the alcohol itself, but on top of that, if you take it away, the other problems still need to be solved. It may not exist in its own vacuum.
The character, Leo McGarry, spoke of her perhaps being a “little brave.” Well, it takes great bravery to face your accuser, admitting your foibles, and then giving a full airing to their thinking and fears. The humanity the character exhibits suggesting that each give one another a second chance is something a chief of staff is highly unlikely to ever do. The brilliance of the character and to Aaron Sorkin’s vision is that it dovetails well with the arc of the character as played by the equally brilliant John Spencer.
In any other TV show, this would be such an insignificant scene. But in the West Wing, it showcases the exquiste writing, and why casting is such an unappreciated factor. You rarely understand the casting staffs job - until you notice just how right this actor in this small part for this character was.
Every young person with a job, needs a boss like Leo McGarry. Karen will remember his wisdom, his kindness, for the rest of her career; she will be better for it
This man explains alcoholism so we'll. My grandpa and great grandpa both died of it...my brother almost slipped into it till me and my uncle helped him thru it. I'm very thankful for it to this day that he let us help
Leo gave her a second chance but pretty sure she avoided Sam Seaborn who was VERY ANGRY at this young gal leading up to her "meeting" in Leo's office . Loved The West Wing....I have gone and checked out the whole series from The Library many times over the years and love watching. Cheers Everyone
They cut the 30 seconds right after this one where she pokes her head back in with "and, uh, sorry, but can you make sure Mr. Seaborn knows you asked me to stay? cuz I'm pretty sure he'll straight up murder me if he sees me at my desk again anytime soon..."
