THE WHAT IF MEN AND THE NEARLY MEN! A Look at Drivers that Never Reached the Pinnacle 

Check out mr less tomato face over here. Lookin' aaaaaaaveraaaaaaggge

Fun fact: Didier Pironi later died on a boating accident, leaving behind his pregnant wife who later gave birth to twins. One named Didier, and the other named Gilles. Gilles would later accompany a certain 7-times world champion on top of the podium during 2020 British GP to receive the constructor's trophy. Magic.

Bellof is the big one for me, I genuinely regretted his passing. But if he hadn’t crashed at Spa, he probably would have anywhere else. Bit of a live cartridge, that one. He was always gonna go bang at some point

I had the pleasure of watching Gilles Villeneuve race. He was ferocious. To this day I have never seen a driver as flat out aggressive as Gilles. I absolutely loved to watch him drive. A legend in my books. Jacques had his fathers talent, but he was blessed with far more patience. A combination that made him one of the greats.

I love the idea of comments complaining you forgot about people who are, by definition, forgotten men. During the Ickx segment you mentioned Ronnie Peterson. Another big what if. Not forgotten, just a stupidly quick driver who sadly never got a chance to strut his stuff.

Fun Fact: With 3 career GP world chanpionship wins Mike Hawthorn has the joint-fewest career wins (along with Phil Hill) of any of the 34 F1 WDCs. He and Keke Rosberg also share the joint distinction of only winning 1 race in their F1championship winning seasons.

robert is probably one of the biggest what-ifs in formula one history he had a ferrari contract for 2012

Gilles could make a shopping cart competitive. He was just a talent and his lapping ELEVEN seconds a lap faster than anyone else in the rain at Watkins Glen in the 312T5 in qualifying proved the man wasn't quite mortal when it came to driving in the rain

One who deserves his own "nearlyman" video is Bruce McLaren who dutifully shadowed Brabham in 1959 and 1960, then set up his own company before being sidetracked by CanAm, which his cars dominated. Quite a story.

Lovely to see Slim Borgudd's Abba liveried ATS at the beginning there - drove me mad at times, working with him in the late 00s, early 10s - while success in F1 alluded him, he did have success in truck racing, which I always thought was pretty cool 😎

Great Vid Aidan, If you want Mr. Bad luck, but talented you only have to look as far as Derek Warwick, Even Senna didn't want to have to race against him in comparative equipment. I remember him flipping his lotus on the first lap of I think it was the Italian GP and getting out and running down the pit lane to get to the spare car ...now that's commitment

I'll never forget the shock of seeing Gilles V's accident, broadcast on local Texas news as a 16 year old kid in 1982. I knew the sport was dangerous, but that short video put it right in front of your face.

a little bit nobody talks about .. when gilles villeneuve started in formula one..his first race.. the 1977 british grand prix. ..it was for the Mclaren team.. and one of his teammates at that race.. Jochen Mass.. the driver of the car he hit at his fatal accident at Zolder.. !

BMW as a brand in F1 belongs on here. They made killer engines, but constantly seemed to be fighting either reliability woes or the car that was built around these engines. The greatest irony being that they won "a championship" in F1 powering Piquet's Brabham but they didn't win constructor's. Oh well, what could;ve been....

I look forward to you making the follow up in say 20 years time. Who from this crop will be on the list. Lando and Charles are my predictions.

Maybe an interesting idea for an offshoot for this, or relevant to this conversation... I always think David Coulthard is an interesting "what if" - as you said, he had a wonderful knack for the right place, wrong time, but very few people realise how wonderful a knack he had for this. DC shared the grid with 16 different world champions. He almost always finished in the top four in the championship and was almost always - except for Red Bull - the team-mate of one of those champions. In terms of "nearly men", I don't think anyone has ever come as consistently close to being in a position to win the championship and had the luck of the draw go against him. Especially when you think of the years he spent as #2 to Hill, Mansell and Hakkinen.

So happy to see Giles getting the recognition he deserves. He handed shekter the championship in 79 understanding he would be the no .1 after that and would have the support of his team mate, when pironi past him at imola, he felt betrayed, then Enzo did nothing for his "friend" happy with a 1-2 even though Didier had disobeyed orders. Legend says Giles was still in full on red mist when he got in the car on his last day. If anyone reads this and has t seen dijon 79 look it up, it's still the most impressive battle I have seen in any motorsport, the fact that that race is remembered for second place and not the manufacturers first win or indeed the first win for a turbo is a fitting tribute.

Great video as always. I've got a coupe that might seem outrageous given what they did manage to achieve in F1 but I'll mention them anyway... Johnny Herbert, if memory serves he was rumoured to be meeting with Ferrari before he smashed his legs up at Brands, still drove for Benetton but had Schumi as team mate and Flavio didn't like him. Martin Brundle, no race wins but he drove for Benetton and McLaren in the 90s... what if HE didn't smash his legs up and was still able to left foot brake. What if Schumi didn't go off at Spa and notice Brundles tyres were badly blistered and took the tyres that had been waiting for Brundle....

Just one thing that's not correct: the rally was called "Ronde di Andora", which is a third-fourth tier rally event in italy, a regional rally, where some crazy local can get to top 5 in a N group Clio. So it was basically a fun event he wanted to do to keep sharp before the new season. His ultimate goal was to be world champion in F1 and rally. Equally as "what if" is his career in WRC. He did amazingly, running the worst car of the lot, in privateer team he ran himself, and yet was leading rallies at the end of 2015 ahead of Ogiers and Neuville, winning stages. To get to this level in just 3 years was matched only by said Ogier. But then opportunities ran out, there were no second manufacturers' teams, no place for him to go really to develop. And from what I heard a couple of years ago in the rally insider scene, the moment a F1 comeback became a distant possibility, he shifted his focus 100% to that, dropping his rally activities altogether, which is a great shame. I really hope he'll do some more WRC rallies, as he's always absolutely brilliant to watch.

Villeneuve and Arnoux at the French GP in 1979 is insane. Wheel to wheel racing and no quarter given for 2 or 3 laps. It's brilliant. I've watched it many times.

Villenueve is, to this day, my favorite 'underrated' driver that I never got to watch. I was born a little too late to see him race but you can watch the video of his fatal accident on youtube. The camera work is shoddy, as you would expect for that time but it's got some gruesome detail in it.. Senna is still my favorite driver from any era not my own but man, Villenueve was a rocket

I think if I had to pick one, you are spot on with Jacky Ickx. He isn't a 'what if?', like Villeneuve or Bellof whose careers were cut short. He undoubtably had the talent to win an F1 world championship, but for various reasons it didn't come together. He was up against unstoppable driver-car pairings in 1969 Stewart-Matra, 1970 Rindt-Lotus and 1971 Stewart-Tyrell. Then in 1972-73 Ferrari seemed to loose interest in F1 and the 312B was an ageing car. Finally the move to Lotus for 1974-75 was a case of right team wrong time, coinciding with a slump. After that good rides dried up and he didn't get to grip with the ground effect cars.

“Didn’t know what ‘slow down’ meant…” Good description.

My grandpa used to tell me that Gilles would definitely have been champion in 82, had he not died. All the way until 93, when he died, he said it. Watching all of his races, I agree with him.

Personally, my biggest pet what if is Alessandro Nannini, he kind of feels like the 80s Kubica.

Fun topic, so many many to choose from. You handled it well. I might have considered Montoya in the list. He went on to have a successful career in CART, NASCAR and IIRC a podium at LeMans and several wins in IMSA. He was crazy fast in F1 but never had the right car.

There could be a mathematical way to sort out the "title material" matter. We can pick a point threshold, like 60% of the champion's points, or 85% of the second's points, to get a rough idea of who was up there with the best, not just by the standing's position. Like in a race, the gap from the leader at the finish line tells more about the performance than the finish position alone

The result in 1958 was mostly a residual of the scoring system of the time. The baseline scoring was 8-6-4-3-2-1 for 1st-6th places, but there was an additional point for fastest lap. Hawthorne had a knack for combining a second place finish with a fasted lap. Moss won 4 races with one second place, and set fastest lap in 2 of his wins and in his DNF at the Nurburgring. Hawthorn won 1 race, finished second 5 times and set fastest lap in 4 of those finishes. That left Hawthorne with 42 points to 41 for Moss. For 1959, the FIA dropped the fastest lap point, arguably with the 1958 result in mind. Without that point, Moss and Hawthorne would have been tied at 38 points, with Moss being champion because first tie-breaker was number of race wins. It is also probably true that Ferrari's Dino V6 was more reliable than the Vanwall engine. Ferrari really deserves a fair amount of blame for Villeneuve's death. There is no way Villeneuve should have been thrown from the car if his belts were appropriately anchored.

You should do a video on Bertrand Fabi. Every article I've read on him has him compared to Senna as far as car control. Some even place him above Senna in that department, which is quite remarkable

Another point in the Bellof-Ickx feud could be that Jacky was the Head Marshall at that 1984 Monaco GP and the one who took the decision to stop the race when it did. If Senna wasn't happy about that, I'm sure Bellof was neither.

17:05 its was not a rumour, Robert confirmed that he signed with Ferrari

It's with mentioning that Rolt and his family disputed the story that Tony and Duncan were pissed whilst racing, something which Andrew Frankel discussed on the Intercooler podcast.

Hello Aidan: It pains me to say this, however, I think Daniel Ricciardo should be on this list. Keep up the good work.

Gilles reminds me of guitarist Randy Rhoads, believe they both lost their lives in SS of 82... both gems in their field

IF is just F1 spelled backwards.... Lovely video Aidan! Keep 'em coming!

Fisichella is among my all time favourite drivers, he was very well regarded by his peers too. Robert Kubica was mad rapid.

What if Nick Heidfeld got the McLaren drive over Raikkonen or Alesi chose Williams instead of Ferrari?

You're absolutely right. I can't stand "reaction" videos either. Do I need someone telling their opinion of a song I already know I like. Great list and agree with you on these drivers.

re. Stefan Bellof at Monaco in 1984, in the wet he had an inherant advantage over the likes of the Toleman & McLaren with the instant and more controllable torque of the naturally aspirated Cosworth DFY V8, a lighter car thanks to Tyrell being able to build their car to a minimum weight limit and the less thirsty nature of the Cosworth vs the turbocharged opposition meaning that he could carry less fuel and the biggest advantage that no one ever seems to mention - the Goodyear tyres which by 1984 were the thing to have in the wet, even if in the dry the Michelins were faster for longer. So weighing all this up it shouldn't be too shocking that in the awful conditions on that day that Beloff was able to out pace those ahead of him. If the race continued both Senna and Prost probably would have retired and probably would have been passed by Beloff before doing so!

Man there are so many drivers who were fast/had potential but had their careers cut short or were never quite at the right place at the right time. Cevert, Nannini, Peterso, de Angelis, Berger, Alesi, Herbert, Montoya, the list goes on. Belof and Gilles are probably the two who would have had the most potential. Another angle is to look at drivers who were successful put probably could have achieved more. Clark comes to mind for this, regarded by many as the most complete and fastest driver of his time, could have dominated a generation. What could the Ascaris, Rindts or Sennas have archieved if we didn't lose them early. Heck even someone like Prost with his 4 titles. His Renault days were cut short by unreliability. He lost 1984 due to half a point of that infamous Monaco GP. He had more Points than Senna in 1988. He had a contract with Williams for 1994. He easily could have been a 6-7 times WC.

Ickx was indeed a superb driver, especially at the Notdschleife, which is maybe one reason he didn’t like Bellof, as by the time he came around he was faster and more daring than he was. In 1967 Jacky was driving an F2 car round the Nordschleife GP, and F2 cars were in the same race as F1 in those days to boost the field size for such a long track. Amazingly only Jim Clark in his Lotus 49 was faster than him, all the other F1 car drivers couldnt beat Jacky in qualifying! The F2 grid had to start behind the f1 field however but in the race Jacky soon caught up with the 4-6th place battle, until bent suspension from flying so much put him out of the race. Sure showed just how quick he was!

With his pace Bellof would have theoretically won in Monaco... But then it would've been taken away after Tyrell were DQ'd. With Senna's suspension issues and Prost's brake issues, the winner in the end would've been Rene Arnoux.

I immediatly thought about a lesser known driver - Elio De Angelis, had massive potential, was basically the best driver I think in 1984 if you exclude the dominant Mclarens... Killed in 1986... And I think same could be said for Francois Cevert mentioned in the vid, also only started to come out as a shining star of the sport, killed at the glen in just his (correct me if Im wrong) 2nd proper season...

Fun fact: There seems to be a new documentary about F1 doing the rounds online in which Ecclestone admits the 81 Championship was "handed" to Piquet because he was in his team. How or why it happened I don't know since I haven't watched, but apparently it's Bernie himself telling the story and apologizing to the late Reutemann. I doubt this will amount to anything other than tarnishing Piquet's (and Bernie's) reputation a bit more.

There's a great little documentary about the rivalry between Senna and Martin Brundle in F3. I wonder if Brundle had ever been able to secure a better ride in F1 how that might have turned out.

While being Polish may make me partial on the topic, it also makes me more informed and able to offer some additional insight. In my opinion, Robert Kubica is still the same brilliant driver he used to be, though admittedly more matured and less reckless, which may make him avoid risks he would've took before the accident, which may not be the most desirable and effective approach in Formula 1. His season in Williams is hardly a good gauge of his performance. The team was struggling to put the cars together, to the point they missed the first two days of pre-season testing. Then, after the season started, amidst the reported issues with production process in the factory, Williams' chief technician Paddy Lowe effectively resigned. The team was on the brink of bankrupcy. It was probably the worst team on the grid of Formula 1 in the recent years. Considering all those circumstances, is it that unlikely that they may have produced two slightly different cars? That out of two terrible parts from the factory, one was slightly less terrible, and one was slightly more? And that a backmarker team like Williams would maximize their points potential by putting all the better parts in one car, and that it may not have been the car #88, but the car #63, driven by a promising British driver, a protege of Williams' engine provider and their former co-owner? So there's that, and I'll let everybody make their own judgement. But regardless, when it came to put up or shut up, it was still Robert Kubica who came out on top and took that single point for Williams. Driving a car with less downforce than his competitiors, in extremely tricky conditions, with a supposed predicament of his right hand, he prevailed and drove it home, while his less rusty rivals ended up in walls, and his team mate lost position to him due to a spin. His other stand out performances were Monaco, where he was unfortunately spun out by Giovinazzi, and had a very solid race before that, and Singapore, where he was on pace with the rest of the field and even overtook Magnussen fair and square, something Williams FW42 normally didn't allow for. In short, the more depended on the driver and less on the car, the better Kubica performed. And specifically on tracks, where there were the most doubts about his ability to do so. Then he went to Alfa Romeo in 2020 and took part in preseason tests, recording the fastest lap among Alfa Romeo drivers, and 12th overall among 21 drivers participating, despite running three-four times less laps than the rest of the drivers. Obviously not a definitive proof of his superiority over Raikkonen and Giovinazzi, but definitely a proof of potential that never got showcased in Williams. And even comparing the onboard from that lap, which is available on RU-vid, with onboards from 2019, you can see how smooth and confident he was in Alfa's car, and how many corrections he needed to make to keep that Williams driving where it was supposed to. Surely a case of a good driver not being handed the right tools, if you ask me, not formerly good driver not being his former self anymore. Unfortunately, every month after that meant more rust back on Robert, and less opportunity to showcase his good form in an F1 car. Robert is now taking next steps in endurance racing, and won a class podium in 2022 24h Le Mans with Prema, despite their car not being on pace with the top of the field for the whole season, proving his killer instinct, one that allows him to take advantage of rare opportunties when they present themselves and get most of the package, is still there. As I said, I may be partial on the topic, but I think it's a huge shame that Formula 1 snubbed Bobby after one unfortunate season. If you got to this point, I have to thank you for reading this long-ass comment. I hope I put some new light on Robert and his performance after coming back to F1.

I love the random facts and info I learn from these videos

I think the ultimate nearly man in motorsports is Mark Martin. A nascar driver who only needed a couple results going in the other direction to be a 5 time champion. He’s thought of as good but not great because of the no titles issue but man it’s close

I get the feeling we will see Russell, Norris and Leclerc could end up on this list. Russell didn't get a good drive until the Merc turned to shit. He was able to go toe to toe with his team mate but this first season feels wrong place at the wrong time. Leclerc as well has a good car but is at a team with more ball drops than an all male high school. Norris as well, with Ferrari, Red Bull and Merc seats accounted for will that McLaren ever get another shot at the title Maybe with Audi, Porsche and some of these new engine manufacturers we will definitely see teams come and go but predicting it will be difficult and if everything is hyper competitive being in the right place won't always guarantee success. I would also add Riccardo to the list, joined Red Bull as Vettel was on a downward slope and partnered with the ever rising Verstappen at a time the car was fairly uncompetitive. Renault never kicked on to break into the top 3 for various reasons despite pissing money at the problem. Perez as well looks like this generations Eddie Irvine. Is that enough to make the list especially the circumstances Irvine got his title shot

Ah yes, WRC2 World Champion Robert Kubica. Pretty sure he had an Lmp2 class victory at Le Mans sewn up until he broke down on the last lap. Gutting his F1 career ended the way it did

I’ve always thought Jean Alesi was an underachiever for his talent. Ok he was temperamental which probably contributed to under achieving but still that first race in 1990 when he took on Senna. I was sure we were looking at thee next bright young thing. But that brightens dulled down despite being still there

Gerhard Berger would also kinda be in that category...actually would be nice to see a vid about him

A Rebecca from WatchMojo reference. Nice. As always, I will click like. I’m not new around here, so I’m subbed. 👍🏾👍🏾

Great video Aidan all of these drivers deserved more in F1 in particular Bellof we were robbed of a Senna Bellof era which could have been even more chaos than Prost and Senna that man had just as much potential as Senna he didn't see the point of using the brakes different breed of racer

This did NOT" take up too much of my time". This was a GREAT video.

Coulthard also had a spell at Williams, if I recall correctly for two years where Williams did't win the drivers title but with the two years either side being won by Mansell, Prost, Hill and Villeneuve. They should really have won one of those years, but sadly Coulthard didn't get a full season and was probably a bit surprised to get the seat in the first. And I don't know what was added to German Weetabix in 1995, but it must have been good.

You should get yourself to the VSCC Pomeroy at Silverstone at the end of the month, get yourself some images of some classics taken by yourself, should be no copyright issues then

I must admit I keep coming back just for the intro music..... content is not so bad either.

The "What If??" drivers of my time growing up and watching F1 would have been former Ferrari team mates Michele Alboreto and Gerhard Berger. The first Italian driver in a generation at Ferrari, Alboreto actually led Prost for most of the 1985 season before Ferrari unreliability saw Prost go on to win the first of 4 World Championships. But while it can be said Ferrari unreliability was the case ... in those same races that Alboreto was a DNF towards the end of the season, his team mate Stefan Johansson actually finished. Were Ferrari being reliably unreliable? It was almost a carbon copy of Renault's capitulation costing themselves and Prost the titles in 1983. And then there was Berger. 1989 against Mansell he had a horror run. Nigel won first up, then Berger had crash at Imola and didn't get a single finish until Monza. He and Prost swapped seats for 1990 and Gerhard was expected to give Senna a good run for his Money at McLaren. But while Prost went to Ferrari, beat Mansell and almost beat Senna for the title, Berger never really fit the McLaren mould, pardon the pun. It actually took until Senna moved over and handed him the 1991 Japanese Grand Prix for Berger to actually win a race at McLaren. Good for a few wins here and there, but never truly a championship contender.

A fact you might have missed re Monaco 1984. Bellof was catching Senna. Senna was catching Prost. The Clerk of the Course was ... Bellof's Rothman's Porsche team mate and obvious best mate Jacky Ickx. Rumour had it that Ickx threw out the red flag so that the Porsche built TAG turbo that powered the McLaren would win. Also, if the race had gone the full 2 hours (no way would they have got to 78 laps) and Bellof had "won" ... it would have been taken away when Tyrrell were DQ'd from the season later in the year over the lead ballast. A punishment that far outweighed the crime.

Aiden thanks for the long video. I've missed the long stuff

Very well done. Thank you!

Thanks for all your content! Love u buddy!

the biggest "what if" of F1 is absolutely me.

Matt Bishop seems to be like a Aaron Noonan of F1.

Would this count? Bruno senna, if ayton senna had not been killed at imola and his family not stopped him from following his uncle sooner would we have had another senna as world champion?

Big up thebish 🤘

Gilles Villeneuve accident is online but defiantly viewer discretion

"I'm Rebecca from WatchMojo" 🤣

The start of a series hopefully.

Remember watching the 84 Monaco live….. Bellof was absolutely flying would have caught them both … He was was so quick….in a 956 he was MENTALLY fast..

Because i came around to rewatch some older WRC viedeos: What if Skoda didnt chose to change the clutch on Colin Mcreas Car in the Telstra Rally Australia 2005? Would he ended up catching 2 place?

One of the best run down ever

DC beat Hakkinen twice and even in his dismal 1998 finished 2nd far more often than Fisichella in 2005/2006. In top machinery in 2000 he was only outscored 89-73 by Hakkinen. Giancarlo was pasted...Pasted by Alonso.

Another bit of trivia. Your 1st photo shows a Saudia sponsored car. If you look at the white space between the S and the A it looks like the Cross of Christ. When this was pointed out to Saudia they rebranded their entire fleet with a new logo with a closed A so there was no cross. Look at the Rosberg Saudia car to see what I mean. I was working in KSA when this happened. #goodolddays

Looking good my guy

Say Monaco 1984 doesn't get red flagged, Bellof catches, passes Prost and Senna (Senna probably retires with suspension failure). He wins the race, but don't Tyrrell get disqualified from the whole 1984 season anyway? So either way, Prost wins it?

Rebecca from watchmojo haha that line killed me. 😂

Donnelly and Herbert if they never got banjexed in a Camel. Bellof, Pironi, Kubica, Gilles etc.........Adam Carroll if he had money. In fact, multiple drivers if they had money....

Bloody hell Rebecca has let herself go

Bellof's record was broken in 2018, 35 years after it was set.

Thought Montoya went to be here.

Bellof was good like Villeneuve, Peterson, Depailler and others. But he wasn’t conclusively better than Brundle at Tyrell. The famous race at Monaco requires context: Senna was in the slowest, heaviest, most agricultural car in the field-a Toleman-Hart turbo. But the Tyrrell was the best car in the field for the wet conditions. And it was illegally underweight. Bellof has an absolutely colossal advantage over Senna with his car, and in any case he did not catch, let alone pass Senna. I think the whole Bellof legend is massively overdone.

Bobby Moreno?

Strap on your Bell helmet...

You forgot Jimmy White

what iif Montoya didn't quit F1 and won the WDC in 2006 or 2007 hadn't LW stepped in?

No mention of Reginald Cuffington? Seriously? A video of him would be nice...

I don’t know how kubica’s career would have gone if it wasn’t for the accident. He would have ended up with alonso as a teammate and Ferrari really signed him to take the title. Unless he fit into a massa / raikkonen role I can’t see both remaining there for long.

Ricardo Patrese anyone?

Nothing 'mythical' about the DFV. It was, and still is, a thing!

Instead of “nearly man”, we can call them a Mark Martin.

Webber doesnt really count, he jammed himself up just as many times as other people did, including his own team. Ive sadly got the same opinion on Ricciardo at the moment, great driver on track but keeps making boneheaded career moves off track. I want to believe. Piastri looks like he might be well worth backing tho.

Surprised not to see Ronnie Peterson on this list.

Alonso is a what if driver despite winning 2 championships lol

Because I'm an American I would adf to this list Mark Martin. An noo I'm not S1apshoes on an alt account.

ever heard of tommy byrne?

Rally drivers are truly mad

I'd add Kvyat to this. What if he got that one more race in Red Bull. Verstappen won that race. I think Kvyat would of won that race as well.

I'd say another big what if is Jules Bianchi, the guy had tons of potential and the fact that he was the first driver to score points for One of the teams that debuted in 2010 is a great achievement. It's a shame we never got to see what he could have done in more competitive machinery.