Whenever I do Luigi's dash attack, I always think of the time where Tyler1 was throwing punches in the air while screaming and then falls off his chair.
6:04 Despite how frustrating that attack is, it’s actually really close to real life how a grounded punch can break concrete but a punch while airborne can barely crack a stick
Simon’s whip reference is almost more of an Easter egg then a serious attack. I know Sakurai directly showed it in his character trailer, but I still think of it as an interesting little reference/Easter egg, like when taunts do damage.
Daniel T I’ve only ever used it as a fun taunt for when I’ve killed an opponent, or if an opponent is spamming fire balls I’ll swing it around just to show off
One of the worst problems for ivy was that most of the cast have fire type moves which are super effective against him. I’m so glad they got rid of typing for ultimate.
“You just wait, I’m going to grab you, you are going to get down thrown and then I will hit one, maybe even two forward airs. You will take the entirety of 27%. You will never recover from that.” *misses grab and is punished by warlock punch*
Which really makes you question why sword characters' aerials are as strong as their tilts. Seriously, at what point is a swordfighter stronger in the air than on the ground?
@@onesaucdragon well I can't really answer that properly, but I do have a theory I like to think about. While it can't be applied to all sword aerials, I like to think of them having momentum from their jump into their swing of the sword. Most of their attacks are strongest at the start of the move no?
Yeah but this is a platform fighter lol. I see what they're going for, but i dont remember Snake being an aerial fighter in his games, but he does fine in smash
@@onesaucdragon Because unlike the rest of the cast, they designed Little Mac to be like a realistic human boxer fighting in a game where everyone can do unrealistic things. Little Mac is basically the only character in Smash that has to obey the laws of physics somewhat, and there's reason he's bad.
Some of these moves are straight up broken Luigi's dash attack in melee isn't even finished. Some hit boxes are also really really weird like dks dash attack which despite touching the opponent does no damage and doesn't even hit.
edge lord In smash 64 Luigi’s dash attack was missing its final hit box due to a programming error. The melee team might have thought that it was intentional and kept it like that.
Quarintined Leon umm.. he not talking about a phantom hit, he’s just saying the moves hit box doesn’t stay out long enough. You can see this by looking at how he says no damage or knock back, phantom hits have damage at least.
Nintendo 1: Alright guys we have 12 more custom moves to make, someone make up something quick I'm getting sick of all of this brainstorming. Nintendo 2: Ooo OOOO! Jigglypuffs sing but it has Mario's cape effect! Nintendo 1: You freaking genus! But wait, isn't that to op? Nintendo 2: Dang you right, how about it just makes the opponent take 1% and puts them into stun for a half a second. Nintendo 1: Alright, and how about I make it be SUPER laggy? Nintendo 2: Yea, yea.
kristian perez No, because first, it would have to actually hit Yoshi, which isn’t going to happen unless the person controlling him puts down the controller and goes to make a sandwich, and second, it only turns people around if they’re close to Jigglypuff.
I think the reasoning behind macs terrible airials comes from the fact that most of your strenght comes from your legs. You should try punching something while in the air.
6:08 Momentum. You see, punches on the ground thrown by Little Mac are grounded by the friction of the, well, the ground. Have you every seen somebody try to punch someone well falling in the air?
Checks out, but then you get the second question of, why in the hell does only Little Mac obey the laws of physics and momentum? Solid Snake, another realistic human (albeit stronger than Little Mac) has good aerials; his aerials are kicks, yeah, but wouldn't they work similarly? If anything, i'd expect aerial kicks to be even harder than an aerial punch. Ken, Ryu, Terry and Joker fall into similar territory, though they're less realistic than Mac or Snake.
@@yungmuney5903 I mean, Ryu, Ken and Terry have fancy power balls and energy waves and what have you, but Snake is just a human male stealth operative, with the only special thing going for him being he's the son/clone of the best solider alive...but in every Metal Gear game, he's bound to more realistic laws in terms of what he can do (he can take down a tank with the right weapons, but not lift it or punch it to death) and what he can handle (he gets knocked out by a single hit to the back of the head once). There's nothing fantastical about him. If anything, he's *MORE* realistic than Little Mac, as Little Mac can transform into Giga Mac; not possible in real life.
There was a Mii Brawler down b in Smash 4 called Foot flurry, which is basically a downward version of the flashing Mach punch attack in Ultimate. It was pretty awful.
I wasn't aware of mewtwo's reflect not working in Melee. That's an oof and its really amazing how every new character except falco was basically unfinished
seanmyster6 people understand the flaws with melee they just know whats its oike to combo someone and have fun playing a game. I get that kirby is bad but. The top 10 characters in melee are more fun to play once you get the hang of them than any other smash game
@@seanmyster6 Melee just made smash gain a competitive scene. The game never really took off before it.. so while it is a clunky broken mess, it is a huge landmark in smash history
6:04: So his punches are strong on the ground but not in the air? Can somebody explain this to me? Dude, have you ever seen somebody in boxing jump and use an aerial attack, let alone above them? There's a reason you learn footing as one of the first basics in boxing.
6:07 when you're punching something hard, not only your arm used, aslo legs and body. If you punch while in the air, you, so to speak, have nothing to lean on your feet and this is how massive part of the power is gone.
I know it wasn't a real question and everyone knows this, but I might as well put this knowledge to use anyway. The power from a punch starts from the legs, is channelled through the torso, and delivered through the arm, so if you're in the air, there's no firm base for you to drive your fist with. You're just relying on the force your arm can provide by itself.
64 Luigi's dash attack is slightly unfinished. It was supposed to have a head hitbox at the end of the attack, knocking back the opponent. The same goes for Melee Luigi. If you're able to, then you can go into the hitbox code and change it.
I shall explain the thing about Little Mac and his punch. You see, when you throw a punch, you, as a human being, do not punch with your fist, or rather, do not take force just from your fist or your arm, but from your legs. When you throw a punch in a good stance, you create strength from the legs, you channel it from the movement of your hips and you release it with your arm. That's why boxers are trained to stand in a certain way, to be able to take as much energy as possible. The reason Little Mac's punches are not good in the air is that he doesn't have any kind of leg support to throw his attacks. That is the reason his air moves don't work in the air.
On Little Mac "His punches are strong on the ground but not in the air, can someone explain this to me?" That's because on the ground, you can use your entire body as leverage to throw a stronger punch. If you try to punch while in the air, you only have the muscles in your arm and shoulder behind it instead of your entire torso and even your legs too powering a punch. In an ideal punch, you want to take a step forward so you can use that leg to push yourself closer as you punch. You want to rotate your upper body towards the punch, adding more momentum. You want to pull your shoulder back before the punch so you get the maximum distance your fist can travel. So much more goes into it than just arm strength that simply wouldn't work without being on the ground.
On top of that, Neutral Special! Who, in a serious situation, is going to use Neutral Special? It's basically a shorter shield brake with only a tiny window to punish as the opponent breaks out. Maybe you can attack the enemy with a few side smashes to deal a bit of percent, but you can't do too much with it other than that and just throwing them off the stage!
@@grape_protogen At higher percents, it takes much longer to mash out of, and hey, that's free time to just pile on damage. Reduced damage, sure, but free damage is free damage. You can also catch them completely off guard with b-reverse, and if they're on the edge, that's the end for them. All that being said...I will agree that it's very situational, and highly punishable if you miss.
At 6:01, when professional boxers punch they aren’t just using their arms, the best boxes turn and use the most muscles possible to add to their power. It’s an actual form you need to work on with timing for when to turn your hips or step forward with your legs
I've done a few years of martial arts training, and I learned that you generate most of the power from your torso, and to do that properly, you need to be connected to the ground. Just swinging/flailing your arm without technique/thought won't be as strong and as effective as a well connected strike. In this sense, Little Mac's punches not being as strong in the air make perfect sense. He cannot channel enough force because he's not connected to the ground, and I'm pretty sure that with the exception of some Fire Emblem characters, literally every other fighter in Smash has some kind of special power and he's just a dude with boxing gloves
I agree with everything on this list except for kirby's side B in ultimate. the fully charged version is predictable so I don't use that often but I get plenty of kills using a quick side B with my boy kirby
One of the main design flaws of Little MAC is that he is made to be so much like a boxer, that it does more harm than good. When your boxing a ton of hitting power comes from the hips and explosiveness of the legs. Without the support of the ground, a hard punch is nearly impossible. You can even try this yourself, just stand still without moving your legs or hips and try to punch, then do one with correct form. You’ll notice a large difference of power between the two.
Little mac cannot punch in the air because he is one of the few characters that obey the laws of physics. A punch applies force in the direction you punch and air is like punching a wall or trying to punch underwater but a lot less of a force. These are all called standing forces unless they start to move. So... not only is a force counter measuring Mac whilst in the air he is also off balanced. Last time I checked I don"t see Little Mac with thrusters on his back so he shouldn't even be able to correct his movement at all but then again, it is just a game.
Yeah but why does this matter in smash? Peach’s fair should be weak then, no? Snake’s aerial kicks do smash attack damage. How about any other melee aerial, including sword slashes? The logic checks out but why little Mac?
KevSB07 Well I think that because in normal boxing you’re technically not supposed to leave the ground and it’s also a good balancer. If Mac had at least decent aerials and jump height then he would be busted
@@demolitiongod64 He doesn't have a problem with being unique. There are no other boxer-like characters except Incineroar and maybe Ryu/Ken and Wii Fit. Terry would be quite a stretch to compare to little mac, too. Nobody plays like he would, and even then I'd still prefer a character who is less diverse than a character whose design forces camping and constant evasion. If Little Mac had normal aerials and normal ground moves and a normal recovery, he would be just as unique as he is now, without all the polarizing strengths and weaknesses that break the game against or for him at random points.
I would put ganon’s ultimate up tilt here as well. Slow as all hell, weaker than warlock punch and fsmash, and it just gives opponents massive free punishes when it gets buffered instead of an jump->uair. It’s rare that having an option is an active detriment to a character, but this is one of those cases. I’d rather ganon have no up tilt at all.
6:04 Little Mac is mostly based off real human boxing, with his stance/idle animation and everything. Right now, stand up, jump, and throw out a punch. You're much weaker than if you were standing on the ground because that's how the human body simply functions. While they took this weakness of Little Mac to a bit of an extreme sense, that's why it's so weak.
I would agree with you on Mewtwo's Confusion, but there was a glitch in Melee that made opponents stuck in it fall through the stage when Mewtwo used it off-stage, making it incredibly difficult to recover if they weren't a Pokemon or Kirby.
I'll never forget that one accidental kill I got with Spinphony... was just fucking around with bad Puff customs in school with a few buddies... I accidently gimped with Spinphony.
Alex said that you could mash out of Kirby’s up and back throws, but in fact, you only have to hit up one time and Kirby just yeets himself off the stage into oblivion
Fun fact: In melee, Mario and Luigi's down angeled forward tilt has a set knockback of 1, meaning it never kills. For comparison, Fox's shine that also has set knockback has a knockback value of 80. Because of the non-existent knockback and puny hit stun, you will always get punished if you land this move. Another fun fact: in brawl, they fixed Mario's DAFT and made it normal but Luigi's still has a set knockback of 1 with barely any hitsun
I’m honestly shocked you didn’t include Ganondorf’s up tilt from Melee. With how absurdly long he just keeps his leg up in the air before attacking, it’s like he’s just begging to be punched in the nuts lmao
When you footstool plant while he's crouching. He does a small bite. It's so slow the opponent can counter air dodge or do anything to not get hit. Even if you do get hit by it, it has no damage and never kills
Peter yeaman because the footstool attack isn’t something you can use. You can’t tell someone “don’t use this moves it’s not useful” like you can with Simon
4:19 Alex.EXE: Let’s have a moment of silence for Ganondorf’s grab range Me: Well...Yes that is really bad, but what about PIKACHU’S Grab range in Melee!!!
I despise it when people go in Simon’s whip dangle thing in full detail. THE MOVE IS A LITERAL EASTER EGG. I don’t think a single developer intended it to be used as an attack, just like I don’t think a single person on this platform needs an explanation.
There's also Piranha Plant when he gets footstooled, which is a similar Easter Egg. Yes, he "attacks", but it's not really meant to kill; it's there for giggles.
In actually fighting you get most of a punches power by using your legs as the base of the force and using your core to translate that energy into your punch. You can't do this in the air so punches are relatively weak when you aren't grounded. Try throwing a baseball ground, then do so while in the air. You may notice you can't put as much power in your throw while airborne. My main issue with Smash's logic isn't that his punches are weaker, it's that he has no recovery. Because a lot of strength comes from your legs/core muscles, that would translate to a person of Mac's size to be a great jumper. So he should actually have one of the better legged base recovery in the game, not the worse.
Luigi's Dash Attack and Samus's UAir in Smash 64 have an oversight that cancels the final hit of both before it even comes out (which wasn't fixed for Luigi until Brawl), that's why they suck so much. As for Roy's Dash Attack, it's because they gave him Marth's data on a slower animation, so the hitboxes are out at the beginning of the swing only.
Shoutout to Luigi’s daft ( forward tilt, but angled down), in both 64 and melee, because it sent literally nowhere, even at 999, and was very punishable…
I honestly don’t agree with Kirby’s side B being “one of the worst moves in smash history” while it is pretty laggy, unlike other charge up attacks, Kirby can move around and jump similar to Dedede’s Down B, it also catches under ledge if they are hanging there. To be honest, Byleth’s Down B is worse
luigi's dash attack was bugged in 64. he was supposed to have a headbutt attack at the end, (which is still seen in the animation) but the hitbox for it doesn't load. the same thing happened to samus's up air. the devs might've thought this was intentional when designing melee, since he has the same headbutt animation but there's no hitbox at all. quick side note, most of a punch's force comes from the lower half of your body, which is why little mac can do serious damage on the ground, but is almost useless in the air.
Ivysaur's back air is actually more versatile in Brawl than it may seem. Due to its fast speed, great range, and generous landing lag (10 frames). The aerial that deserves to be there instead of Falco's forward air. It doesn't kill even at 400%, has the most landing lag in the game (33 frames), and is really easy to escape or punish due to the unreliable multi-hits (and it doesn't have a landing hitbox). I would also give a shoutout to Ivysaur's down smash or Zero Suit Samus' forward smash in Brawl for being absolutely terrible for multiple reasons.
I’ve actually been able to incorporate the Belmont Whip dangle into neutral at times. It’s surprisingly good at ledge and you can even do a mini combo when you twirl it in a circle since it only launches when the tip of the whip hits the opponent. I wouldn’t recommend doing this in a serious match tho, the whip dangle tbh is more a joke move you do to disrespect your opponent because killing someone with this move (which is possible) is the ultimate disrespect a Belmont player can do.
Fun fact: in Super Castlevania IV, the whip twirl was a lot better than the one in Smash Bros, It had a better range, could even destroy bosses projectiles and make enemies stun for a moment
I think the reason Little Mac has pretty much no power in the air is because boxers shift their body in tandem with punches to get the most power. So in the air, all he has to work with are just his arms. Who knows lol
Kirby's hammer is not one of the worst moves in the game. It isn't geat either, but has a few uses. For example, you can ledgetrap people with and if you connect, you can kill very early.
Yeah, I was thinking "is that really the worst move in Ultimate? ". I believe that moves like Falcon punch or rollout are worse. It's a bottom 10 move sure, but the worse? Nah.
6:04 In boxing, in order to be able to throw a strong punch, you must push yourself against the ground with your legs. Try to punch mid air; you'll look just as pathetic. Most strength comes from the ground.
Little Mac has bad aerials because on the ground, a boxer can move their body off the ground to get maximum force of their punch, but in the air, you can’t. Little fun fact
I know a move that is not only useless but also you would only encounter it if someone is being nice to you. It is Piranha Plant’s “Crouching Footstool Attack” I bet a lot of people didn’t remember this.
I actually liked the custom move feature- but only for a few characters. Sonic was a prime example- I’d take Burning Spindash over a regular one any day, and Link as well, who had an electrified up B option.
Hey kirby's hammer is a good mix up option and a good shield break tool. It's also useful when the opponent's shield does break as it kills around 20 to 30 fully charged
Mewtoo side special actually is somewhat useful because if you use it near an edge you can make your opponent fall through the edge and take a stock from them
I just found your channel, and I've been binging your smash content. As much as I'm enjoying the "Worst X in Smash History" series, it would be interesting to complement it with a "best X in Smash History" series.
Not even Little Mac's neutral B? Strong af. Covers a lot of distance. EXTREMELY slow and telegraphed and only on the ground. I've only ever seen it be usable in doubles when the enemies are distracted...before they hear the obvious, "AAAUUUGGHHHH" and see the big glowing gloves.
Why couldn't Kirby keep the side B from Brawl? Definitely the absolute best iteration, especially airborne. Good for recovery, good to bait air dodges, good all around.
6:04 When you punch you use your body's weight, to impulse your weight forward to punch you use your damn legs. Guess what... Legs are sticked to the ground. Mac impulses his whole body with the ground using his legs when punching. There's no ground in the air = no impulse = weaker punches. That's kind of the best explanation I can give lol
Can’t believe you didn’t mention Luigi’s forward tilt in melee and brawl where it has a set knock back of one AKA it can’t kill at all and it’s punishable even on hit
