I’m with Kyle. You said some time ago that you weren’t sure if viewers would be on board for long series. I’d rather see how you work this one out (as long as you feel good about it) than watch another five successful small projects. (I will definitely also watch the shorter stuff. All the stuff is good stuff)
Happy new year. Can’t wait to see what the new year holds for you and your co. Keep up the great craftsmanship And hard work my friend. Forge On. Fab On. Weld On.
Kyle is right and since the old meta is back. Get back on the horse and keep working. The next one will be much cooler, with everything you have learned on the first :)
I really appreciate you being confident enough to show your failures. It honestly can be really discouraging when 99% of people on the internet are only showing off every awesome thing they did and hiding every mistake they made because it makes me as a viewer feel like mistakes are super rare, when really they happen all the time and the difference between a master and a novice isn't how many mistakes you make, but how well you can deal with them (both emotionally and in fixing them).
During my IT traineeship we did a practical project as an graduation exam and we were always told "The goal is the project, no matter the outcome. If it doesnt go well, it just doesnt. Dont stress the fact that it can go wrong, embrace it and make that the topic. Why did it fail, what could have been better. Tackle these questions instead of lementing the failure" This has reminded me of it soo much. To me this is super interesting to see what can go wrong and how it would look like and it shows that Humans arent perfect and not everything will go as we expect. Great Video!
That's true, but failures outside of school cost time and money. It's hard to find the silver lining sometimes, but that's when others voices really help to bring it forward - like you're doing. Cheers!
Yeah in the real world the stakes are higher so when things go wrong it's better to cry and give up. Never learn from the lessons and move on, that's so a school thing to do
I know it is really hard to have a project fail. Trust me I've been there, but nothing will be as heart-wrenching as Will's power hammer so it could be worse.
I had 3 blades in a row that looked like that, a sad streak and a lot of hours wasted, to keep going is difficult after such setbacks. Feel you man. I've learned to not grind hollow profiles before hardening, and leave them thicker, even if I have to spend more time on the grinder. Just heartwrenching.
Thought I was going mad! 14:13 his hair went from cut too not 😂 mate gutted for your hard work, it’s not a failure you’ve just learnt how not to make a katar! Keep your chin up you’re a legend!!!
I've been teaching my boss my (limited) blacksmithing skills and he's a natural, the progression he's made in a year is astounding. He's had some spectacular failures, the worst was him trying to make a basic seax, and the blade cracked on the quench. Rather than get pissed and moan about it, he cut the blade and made a much smaller version, lol. Gotta be crushing to invest that much work into the Katar only to have it all go sideways. Many thanks for sharing it though, as many have stated already, too many creators only show the successes, but you share the failures as well.
As an artist, sometimes we fail. But it doesn’t mean it was for nothing. I learned so much from watching you make. No matter what you keep trying to the end. Your perseverance is inspiring.
I comend you for displaying your failures as well as your successes. This allows us to learn along with you. Been a huge fan since the beginning and am looking forward to getting my own forge set up again.
I hate to say it but I honestly enjoy the failures. Your transparency and honesty are one of the reasons I fell in love with your channel. Lately you’ve been so good with every project it almost makes us think you’re perfect. Failures like this provide learning and patience and frustration and a plethora of other horrible things, but horrible things that allow us or someone like you to grow. Thank you for this failure. Thank you for your honesty. And thank you for continuing… we all know you will 😊
I love the continual search for solutions during a time of catastrophe. A lot of people can learn a valuable life lesson from watching Alec deal with this issue. Myself included.
I mean, I figured grinding down the middle section would have been a viable option, making it thick at the base (for the engraving) skinny in the middle (for heat treating thickness) and then thicker at the tip creating an almost uppercase I shape that flows. But now we get to see Alec recreate the blade up to this point in one video next episode! (Atleast that’s what he has historically done with projects like this in the past)
From my own experience, that form of warping is called baconing. Although it can be caused by uneven grinding, it is primarily cause by an edge that is too thinly ground coupled with a spine that is too thick in comparison. When the blade is coming up to temperature in the forge, the edge heats and expands faster than the thicker steel behind it the thin steel then buckles causing the baconed edge. I have mostly experienced this when I was making straight razors and thin chef knives and the only fix was to leave more edge thickness
Sorry it failed, but it's nice to see the professionals do mistakes, admit them, try to fix them, and move on! Makes trying to do what professionals like Alec do a bit more possible for everyone. Also, golden retriever ❤️
Wearing your failures on your sleeve and showing your lessons without shame is a great process and only makes you better. Also this series was far more interesting and engaging than some of the recent ones, you asked what was wanted, you listened to the answer, and you made a really fascinating series that we all learned a lot more from than doing something easy. Well done. onwards and upwards.
If I may give some input. Katar are usually quite thick, with some exceptions. If you plan on revisiting this project I recommend looking at originals in museums or private collections. And really look at the diversity of structures and construction. That said the hilt portion you made is still useful, if you have more contemporary dagger blades laying around you can fit and rivet them into the handle, much the same as the 17th century southern examples
Can you make a set of guides and clamp the edges straight after the quench? Kinda a reverse profile of the blade, either way don’t get too discouraged, every failure is an opportunity to learn
Ouch, Alec, what a bummer, I'm working as a carpenter, and I always have my attitude as positive as it gets. When working wood, you have no second tries when removing material. You can't reshape it. You need to start over and learn from it. Sadly, this seems to be the case for you to this time! 😕 you got your subscribers here, and we will support your endeavours. Focus on your solutions, not your problems. The solution here seems to be, make something else from it or start over! Chin up! We support you! 🙌 🙏 thanks for yet an amazing video! 😁
Man, that absolutely blows. You can really feel the pain through the video. It was still a blast watching you work, but, yeah, that has to be devastating.
Have you considered an billet Aluminium or hardwood clamp to set the edge immediately after the quench ? Still one of my favourite channels. Keep up the great work.
Oooof, that's a pinch in the gut for you, man! Sorry it didn't work out for this one! But I am so appreciative of the fact that you still made a whole video of it and posted it here! It means a lot to see the failures and the successes, especially of an artisan. Keep your head up and keep going! Your work is still amazing and you have so much talent!
I know it's a bit late but in future might it be better just to not harden it? I understand it would not be about to function as a weapon without doing so but let's be honest it's going to spent the vast majority of its life as a ornamental piece anyway
I recently read that most modern steels in the sizes you are dealing with here will harden perfectly well in air. The whole oil/water quenching only makes sense at industrial scales (so parts that weigh upwards of a tonne)
Good to see someone actually sharing a failure for a change, so thanks for still uploading the video! Sucks that it didn’t work out but looks like you learned a lot from the process at least!
All the videos from Bakersfield forge, had loads of learning experiences and honestly, I think that "failing/learning/doing it again" is the best (and most relatable) quality Alec has. Everyone fails, but the defeat lies in giving up :)
Keep your head up Alec. We've all had things where we had to restart. Thanks for having the fortitude to push through, and to share with us, to remind us all that even far more skilled still have it happen from time to time.
you can make a dirty clamp out of wood or make an aluminum heat sync and clamp it instead to quenching it to hold the blade flat when "quenching" cooling it. hog out the center for the part of the blade
Damn, that's heartbreaking. But thanks for posting the full video of the mess up. It helps to see that even the best make mistakes an have projects that don't work out.
In the bronze foundry we use straight grinders with sanding sleeves or fan grinders by pferd that do exactly what your selfmade grinding tool does. If you are looking for special grinding tools its worth a look :)
You know why I subbed to this channel, many-a-years ago? Even before you first had this shop? Not because you were a great blacksmith, because there are so many of those. Not because you made beautiful pieces of steel-art! Not because you were already so knowledgeable! No, but because you failed! Like, a lot! And you weren't afraid to show us those failures! And you ALWAYS said: "Right, what have we learned from this?" ALWAYS! Look back at that young, strong headed, optimistic Alec, and learn from him! Let him pull you out of this, because he's pulled me out of many dark holes! I thank you for that!
Man, it's been a long time since you've had a set back like that! Hope to see you create another blade for the handle using what you've learned this time through! You got this!
Out of curiosity, not that it would be useful now, but is it possible to put a thin line of weld near the edge of the blade, heat treat it, then grind the weld off? I don't know much about heat treating or welding so I have no idea if this would work.
I feel your pain.😱😱 Alec how cold was the oil before the first quench. I'm positive that was the culprit. The oil must not get lower than 80* F / 26* C. Once it was shocked quenched in cold oil there's no fixing that all the steal crystals at the back of the warp bunched together so tight you'll never get them to relax again. You'll know you messed up if your work shrunk by a 1/4 inch.👈👈😣😣I suggest using a Submersible Aquarium Heater, 50w to 500W or use a torch with a Floating Aquarium Thermometer to bring the temp up.
We are if anything humbled by your progress, your strength is always in your willingness to admit and show your failures to your audience, don't give up, start it again, you have learned what you cannot do and if anything heat treat before the intricate design.
I have 1000% confidence that you can still make something awesome with this blade. It might not be the intended finished product but you are creative enough to make something happen
Man that really sucks Alec. I know exactly how it feels though unfortunately. I've had almost 30 hours in a really big blade once and it warped so bad that nothing I did would correct it. It's times like that when you just throw it in the scrap pile and go do something else for a day or two and take your mind off it completely then come back and start fresh. Good luck with the next attempt.
Have you tried adding a stress relieving cycle before you quench? A one hour soak at 1250 (or in your forge, just barely red but still magnetic) should help reduce warping during quenching.
Ok so your engraving is BADASS! I haven’t finished the video yet but everyone is saying that this didn’t work out and I just wanted to point out that your engraving(prior to heat treating) is amazing. I don’t think I’ve seen you do the shadowing before and you generally don’t have the best luck when it comes to doing something new(I’m the same way, I’m learning to play the bassoon now and it’s not going so well but I’m going to stick with it because of your determination and perseverance in the face of failing, if 11 year old Alec can turn his blacksmithing hobby into a career then I should be able to play the freaking bassoon!(side note I play a lot of instruments, this was not my first choice))
im guessing you finished recording a while ago but i had a thought, i'm not familiar with metal work but could you weld over the area with low carbon steel(slowly so you dont blow a hole in it, like hours or days) to reinforce it then grind the weld off after quench
Mr. Alec Steel you must remain proud of your work and the bias taken by your youtube channel: Show that when you make things problems will inevitably arise and that you have to manage them. each time this has happened to you, very honestly, you have shown not only the problem(s) but also and above all, how you got out of it.
I saw a TikTok of a guy who lit his coal forge by smashing kindling with a hammer to splinter it then he lit newspaper by cold hammering a bit of what looked like 6mm round until it turned red and touching the paper. Would you consider doing a video or even a short addressing this? I think it’s fascinating.
Congratulations on another great series im so sorry it failed but this is the real content we have been looking for man. Chin up man you did great. As a german shepard owner i understand fully the dog time pats and cuddles. You may use as many as you like in the vids :)
One of the reasons it bent so much was related to the thinness: Bc its so thin the quench in oil became much more aggressive than it would be for a thicker piece. Looking at the video, the edge cools down extremely quickly just taking it out the forge. An air quench or with two pieces of wood might have been just as effective while reducing or even elminating the warp.
out of curiosity, in the part where you were explaining how the uneven stress could bring the warp back during the quench. Couldn't you normalize the blade before the quench? I recall you once explaining how a normalization would even out the stress?
What temperature does sand melt at? I wonder if you could straighten it and stick it in a narrow tube fill the gaps with sand (or something that has a high enough melting point and transfer’s heat faster ) pack it in so it is like clamping it between too pieces of steel while you heat it and any quench it. Or machine a fitted with a die for it.
Best thing about you is you don't hide failures, and the process and how you present it is the feature of your vids. Damn I felt for you when it first came out and I saw in your eyes there was no way to salvage it in its current perfect fitment, but you went for it anyway because just the chance you could save it was worth the effort. I had a simple poker that split on me after a hot cut, perfect colours and yet it happened and it was a piece I was doing at a reenactment in front of a crowd, if I could have disappeared into my apron pocket, I would have
Can you Quench the Blade between two thick Aluminium Plates that have the contour of the Blade, so that the weight of the Plates pushes against the edge an keeps it strait? Might be worth a shot. Never the less, it was / is a good project to watch, looking forward to the next video.
There is something called a flex arm die grinder that is useful for metal work. Think of a flush trim wood router but for metal. Good for fallowing patterns and keeping the grinding bit critical
That warp reminds me of a description of a sword of Japanese legend (that does exist, but it may not be as magical as the legends) kusanagi no tsurugi. The description states that: "the blade is like a camphor leaf" which tends to be wavy like that warp. I'd love to see a take on what it could look like based on the description on this channel.
Can't be always a win but the craft and the search for solution was very good to see ! I was wondering if you already try to do a spear ? since you have the workshop of your dad for the handle ^-^ ! There is so much beautiful blade for spear in history, culture and fantasy :)
This was a great video and an amazing project Alec! Loved the music and video editing. I ask you please, do not be eaten up by this metal failing to do a you ask... we smiths with lesser skills, less experience, and lesser shops need to see that even masters have issues beyond their control. If this causes you to give up on a project, then the art of blacksmithing is truly doomed, for the novice smiths will never learn to persevere. My best to you and your family in this new year!
I waited so long for content like this before! Love to see more of the thought process and how you deal with difficult situations! Please don't drop this project, start over, apply what you've learned and make a banger Katar! Btw, the wrinkles could be an option as someone mentioned. I also think maybe you could've sanded the edges to be like this )( and get rid of the wrinkles, but just an afterthought
This is a case of trying to fly to close to the sun. Putting the finished product ahead of the steps to make it and making a finished blade before fully heat treating it. I suggest starting over with the blade but at a thickness suitable for heat treating with the engraving slots roughed in and filled with clay after normalizing before the quench. After the temper and semi-final shaping of the blade the gold can be inlaid and the shadow detail area of the blade can be tempered back with a torch to make it easier without harming the finished edge. *Edit Quenching in the order of operands needs to be done before final shaping of any blade, and decoration on any blade is part of the final shaping.
You remember the spetznaz shovel you years ago? This blade lacks the shape to give it a direction for it shrinking, as you quench it. Its shrinking wherever it can. Fuller or mud(like them japanese smiths do).
What i have learned from other blacksmithing channels is that its bad to finish grind before heat treat for exactly this reason. True up the general shape and bite the bullet when it comes to sanding belts and do the finish grind after the quench and temper.
Hi. Sad this happend but have you thought of plate quenching und heat treating it? Putting it between two heavy plates should help. Some steels can even be directly hardened like this
I think Pask Makes recently did something with Press Quenching which could make the blade salvageable? Essentially squishing the blade between two large heatsinks which would force the blade to maintain its form while the blade cooled. Might be worth a shot?
I got a variety pack of walkers for Christmas so I now know what ready salted crisps are. Also prawn cocktail is the best. For all my fellow Americans, ready salted is basically lays original.
Hey @Alecsteele just clamp it flat between some thick metal plates then harden it with the clamps on and then thermal cycle it with the clamps still on doing all of that should prevent the blade from warping
I had a knife do that same potato chip warp on the edge, I would say I feel your pain but I had nowhere near the amount of hours in that knife that you had in the qatar. I cant wait to see the remake but I am sorry you are having to redo so much work.
That has happened to me multiple time's making chefs knives and what I discovered is it mostly happened when the edge and spine were not close enough in heat during the quench so when the metal contracts they contract different amount and the weakest part is the edge so it bacons up. Best thing I've tried was claying the back so it wouldn't get as hot as the edge so by the time you quench they are as close to the same heat as possible or id go with a slower quench. I mean you can see that the edge was already black while the spine was still red. In my NON-expert opinion
I once talked to an awesome woodworker and he told me the difference between a novice, professional, and master woodworker. When a mistake or flaw in the wood occurs, a novice starts over, a professional corrects it, a master embraces it and makes it the centerpiece of the project. Embrace the imperfections and do something creative.
