I like that Santos, former military, asks first about the deployment of troops; Vinnick, career diplomat, asks who they're talking to at the Kremlin. There is a reason Santos chose Vinnick to be his SoS.
I also noticed that Vinick, focused on cutting taxes above all else, insisted on cost estimates that would make deficit reduction & tax cutting mutually exclusive, while Santos, who prioritized social reform, was more concerned with losing time towards his goals.
I've always loved the way Bartlett leaves them in the Oval Office - he doesn't dismiss them beforehand and remain, and he doesn't walk out with them - he just leaves. So, we get this great, very brief moment of Santos and Vinnick standing there just looking around, and the Oval Office just seems so empty, hollow, and lonely. More like a prison than a prize. It's a great moment.
Yeah its also very symbolic to the outgoing president addressing situation he has to deal with but will be unable to finish it within this term and looking to the 2 possible successors laying his cards on the table and walking away leaving it up to them because like it or not this will be their War.
Flashback to Season 5, when Walken was speaking with Debbie Fiderer. He comments that the oval is a weird looking room,to which Debbie says that Truman called it the crown jewel of the federal penal system
It's why you (generally) see a surprising amount of communication between former presidents even of different parties. In most jobs, you can seek advice from others who do the same work you do. Doctors talk to doctors, lawyers to lawyers, servers to servers, etc. Presidents really only have former presidents. Each of them will have crises and hard decisions where the costs can be billions or trillions and lives lost in the thousands or even millions. Also, as CiC and head of the executive branch, there's really no one to stop you. Advisors can advice, you may care about public opinion, but if you give the order, it's an order. The weight of that responsibility is tremendous. It's a deeply isolating and alienating experience and no wonder they look to age about 20 years in a matter of 4-8.
I was thinking the same things while watching this. Its a strong theme in the show that people get subtly dismissed by the President from the Oval Office after spirited discussions, with tip of their head and a "thank you Mr. President". Its Bartlett's trump card as the President. To see him deviate from that here is powerful and jarring. Great show!
I'm really happy that the first thing Santos and Vinick do is go into President mode and brainstorm scenarios instead of focusing on their own campaigns. Also, Leo saying "Yeah" was John Spencer's last line in the series before he died.
How are you How are you How are you doing How are you doing How are you DOing How are you How are you How are you doing How are you doing How...... Are....... You..... Doing DOING Just repeat that for 10 hours. That's my life song.
West Wing knew how to give us great, nuanced, smart characters on both sides, without making it feel like "Democratic good, Republican bad". Even some of the "villains" you could clearly see why they believed the way they did. Reality needs better writers. :p
Ended up being true. Santos dropped hints that he would be much more hawkish as president which got Russia and China back to the negotiation table with Bartlett before the election.
Or Vinnick as President and Santos as Secretary of State! With having these two actors ply their craft in the first rate way they do, it's a win win deal!
@@Pflameslinger Bartlet didn't have a CHOICE! You'd rather have China and Russia go to war with each other? Do you realize how much damage a war between to nuclear super powers would do to the USA much less then PLANET? As soon as Chinese soldiers shoot the first bullet or lob the first bomb at Russian troops (or visa versa), it would be an all out nuclear exchange between Russia and China. The USA would see major radioactive fallout within weeks after both nations wipe themselves off the map.
@@blastermasterguy Not really understanding the logic presented in, "if two nuclear powers go to war..." Iran was involved with both Iraq and Afghan...yet not a single nuclear bomb used. If you think Pakistan and India are not fighting on their border...we as another nuke power and one of the only real "super power" nations do not have to intervene or "stand in the middle".... every country with nuke capabilities understand the ramifications if they are used....great writing, great acting and an incredible series....
@@blastermasterguy It's not going to be an exaggeration that the US would not give a damn if Russia and China mutually cancelled each other out in nuclear hellfire. It'd remove the two biggest challengers to American global power in a single stroke.
(0:24) The last time we see John Spencer on screen as Leo McGarry. This brief scene is all too brief, with his last line a short "Yeah." While his character lived on in off-screen references until the Election Day episode, this was the final time we saw him. RIP John Spencer.
You left out the best part, just before this scene. Debbie tells Vinick: "Make yourself comfortable", then under her breath says "But not too comfortable."
The scene ending with Bartlett saying "I don't have one. (An exit strategy)." He then walks out of the Oval Office; leaving the two presidential candidates glaring at the President's desk. The scene itself has moments of chillingly deafening silence.
This scene is always chilling and compelling to me… best part, adults with completely different view points actually talking, reasoning, and little wrestling with each other--about a gravelly serious situation-- with enormous implications and ramifications-without it going straight to pure bickering and blame…. That comes later lol
That moment at the end of the scene, with both Vinick and Santos staring at the President's desk, fully understanding the terrible weight of that office. Presidential ambition is one thing, but the burden of BEING President... is it worth it?
Four years of impossible choices and in-fighting, even in my own party, and the knowledge that no matter what I do or say, at least a third of the country will hate my guts? Hard pass.
Which simply begs the question: why would ANY responsible voting amerikan put an incompetent, irresponsible, clueless, buffoon like trump in the office of the U.S. presidency? That's like putting a toddler in charge of a nuclear missile silo.
It feels like a meeting between three gods. True statesmen. I love Bartlet so much, he’s such a legendary figure. The showrunners really made a wise decision to pivot the show in the 6th and 7th season to an ailing Bartlet and his up-and-coming replacements.
Its that moment when the reality strikes home up until now it's been theorizing about what the job would be for them now they get a taste of the reality of the job they are competing for.
It also is so ering that with one situation both of their domestic agenda they campaigned are is no longer feasible and this is before any of them are elected to
I really like how in the later seasons how Bartlett became more of a statesman but politically less powerful. He's got all of this knowledge and ability but is constrained by circumstance. It's very moving.
You do realize the DEMOCRAT president is committing us to a war without any idea of how we get out of it, right? That's the very thing you leftists always criticize republican presidents for.
Michael Rochen Josiah Bartlet may be a Democrat on paper, but he’s a moderate that would have a very hard time getting elected today. By the same token an Arnold Vinnick would have zero chance to win the Republican nomination in today’s political climate. There seems to be little room for moderates these days but, in my opinion, a moderate is just what we need. In this storyline, Bartlet is just reacting to other stimuli - in this case superpowers Russia and China coming close to war over leadership in Kazakhstan which happens to be right between the two. It’s not unilateral involvement like so many previous Presidents of both parties have done in the past. Republicans have been the most recent culprits, but let’s not forget LBJ and Vietnam.
@@seamus1956 A moderate is just what we DON'T need! There's a reason they can't get elected today. It's the moderates and the neocons who fucked everything up. They rig the primaries, they start the wars, and they kiss the asses of the corporations while screwing over the working class. Chuck Schumer said they would pick up two moderate Republicans for every blue collar Democrat they lost. That's what these moderate Democratic assholes stand for. The sad thing is that their failures allowed a faux populist con man like Trump swoop in and win the presidency.
"What's YOUR exit strategy?" This is how you can tell it wasn't written by Aaron Sorkin, because he would have had Bartlett say, "The 22nd Amendment." (term limit. :P)
Not sure that he would have said that, unless he was going for a humor effect. This scene is not funny. He is sitting these men down so they can see the full extent of what their next four years will be about.
I’m 8 years late to the party, but absolutely not. President Bartlet would not say something like that when the stakes are this high. Look at the episodes with the assassination of Qumari Defense Minister Shareef for reference as to how he would handle something like this in the Sorkin years.
this scene is so well played out, thwest wing was really good about making you hope the people that run the country are this courteous, intelligent and focused. thanks for uploading this.
Here's another example of the great cinematography, the National Security Meeting from above. To me it symbolizes two things: One, that this thing is looming over them like an ominous cloud and two it reminds me of a surgery scene in a film with them looking over the body. It shows how precise this must be.
I think the point here folks is that no matter your ideological beliefs, the world is a messy place filled with situations that have no "right" answer. Sometimes, we humans just have the do the best we can in a very complicated evnironment with limited information, all the while knowing the other guy may do something totally unexpected. If you don think this is true just consider the last time you had in your mind a conversation with your spouse, and it went in a completly different direction then how you envisioned it.
This is a superb depiction of the complexity of world politics and our role in those politics. I feel pretty strongly that we have been involved in way too many wars, but this fictitious scenario sounds so similar to many of the "actions" that the U.S. has taken in the last few decades. And boy, are we hard on our presidents!
3:58 “I suggest you both start giving it some thought.” Oh wow, yep, thanks, good advice, not sure either of us would've got there on our own. 🤣🤣 Master of understatement
There is a brief glimpse of him in the hotel during the celebrating of Santos' win. Scenes are often shot out of order, but it makes me wonder how they planned to use that bit, since Santos' was intended to lose before Spencer's death.
Jay Azathoth It was his photo or video, it wasn't him in person. his last episode was halfway through the season. most dramas air the episodes in the order they were filmed. no way would he have been in original footage.
Patrick Hardin My mistake, it was the polling numbers in episode The Cold, not the election itself: www.dailymotion.com/video/x5499qe_the-west-wing-season-7-episode-13-the-cold_tv?start=174
How fitting that the last 2 ppl that leo talked to on screen was the president and josh. If margaret could only have been the thrid, it would have been very cool.
When I was in high school, my AP US History teacher told us that a common theme across many presidents throughout the years has been foreign affairs getting in the way of domestic agendas.
You may not know this but Arnold Vinick was originally scripted to WIN the election. Unfortunately John Spencer passed away while Season 7 was still being filmed and the writers had to fit that tragic event in to the story. As a result they decided that having Leo die AND Matt Santos losing the election was simply too much of a 'down' ending to the show so they rewrote the last five episodes. As a result Arnold Vinick became the Secretary of State to President Santos. Personally I think the writers handled it about as well as it could be handled. I would have liked to see a follow up at some point to see how that relationship worked and whether or not Sam Seaborn ever made it to the White House as President but I doubt in today's political climate such a show could now be made.
Yeah, there were some in the writers' room that were toying with the idea of a Vinick win, but the idea didn't have a whole lot of traction. Spencer's death merely put that idea to bed for good. It wasn't the full course reversal that some people believe it was.
You're using the sentence "purged" with regards to a president of a democratic nation... YIKES! That's mildly terrifying. Pick a better word. Stalin purged. Democracies don't purge.
When I see this, I can't help but remember Martin Sheen as Robert E. Lee in the movie Gettysburg. He so well portrays an old warrior, highly educated and a natural born leader. But still reluctant to fight until it is forced. He is truly a fantastic actor.
@MikeJames6 He wasn't going to originally, but John Spencer died, and they felt from a story perspective it would be too cruel for him to lose and his VP pick to die.
Matt Santos was a great character but this was one of those scene where I was rooting for Vinick to win the election. Santos was talking about effects on the election and their administrations but Vinick was interested in the bigger picture.
They were never going to let a republican win that election, even though two consecutive Dem administrations fly in the face of the last 80 years of US history.
@@randolphkersey5155 Actually originally Vinick was going to win. But the death of John Spencer made them alter it feeling that both the death of Leo and losing would be too cruel to the fans.
This is probably what planted the seed in Santos' head about Vinnick becoming Secretary of State. Vinnick looks astute and intelligent on foreign policy, which is hard to say about most Republicans.
Watching this scene makes it obvious that the reality TV star that is now our president-elect is in way, WAY over his head. Do you think that The Donald could even name a "former Soviet central Asian republic?" I don't think so. Maybe he can get someone to tweet him the answer. We're screwed.
I don't debate your general sentiment, but don't forget that the President has made millions in a couple of those former Soviet central Asian republics.
@@WilliamPitcher Which makes him beholden to the oligarchs that run said former Soviet central Asian republics and therefor a security risk and unfit to be president.
@@blastermasterguy If he's already made the money, however many years before he took office, how would he still be beholden? Also, as a registered Democrat, I'm actually glad Trump is previously wealthy in one sense: it removes a vector for corruption that has before and doubtless again will affect other Presidents of the Republic.
I love The West Wing but it’s hard to watch it now since it is so very far from reality. The world where politicians like Bartlett, Santos and Vinnick could even theoretically exist has long passed. Yea I know it’s fiction but in 2020 the actions and motivations behind policies of people the show presents us doesn’t even seem remotely possible anymore. Vinnick saying goodbye to his tax cut for example. If this happened today, He would still cut taxes and send in the troops. He wouldn’t feel conflicted about it at all. This show for the most part portrays both Democrats and Republicans as having some sort of moral and ethical foundation from which their policies emanate. Today, it’s all grift for profit and rank hypocrites.
"...and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth." ... The last words of President Lincoln's Gettysburg Address in 1863. I agree that the quality of character exhibited by a lot of those now in the Federal government is down so low. But I don't believe it's necessarily gone forever. Per Lincoln's words, it's up to us to do what it takes to get it back.
Actually, watching the West Wing twice in the last 4 years because sometimes it paralleled reality. I know we don't get a Bartlet anywhere in the real world, but some of the politics were so convincingly close to present day, I watched it all the way through twice at the start and end of Trump's Presidency. My husband and I would chuckle at the stuff that went on (including the biological attack in the White House vs COVID) because it was so damn close.
You say you know it's fiction and then go on to say it's not even close to reality. Well no kidding. Do you also watch movies about the civil war and then go on to complain that we don't fight that way anymore? How about WW2 when we had battleships out fighting. We don't have any now so that's another fallacy I suppose.
The two candidates are confronted with the reality of the choices facing a President. Sometimes there are no easy fixes or happy solutions. The world is a messy place filled with compromises, least bad options and grey areas. It certainly is not a reality show.
I really miss this show. I wish they’d gone a couple more seasons. It would’ve been interesting to see how Pres. Santos and Sec. Vinnick would work together.
The scene ending with them both staring at the President’s Desk as Bartlett walks away is so symbolic of the bigger picture. A ton of bad news. No easy answers or clear exit strategy, and two new candidates looking at the whole thing now silently questioning if they really, really want the job.
Both want the job, but they were campaigning on different agendas. They were quite right, you only come in with so much political capital to spend. Rather than using the first three months with a mandate for their agenda they were about to be preoccupied with a situation that they would inherit.
I was never a fan of Jimmy Smits, but he does better than I thought he would. As for Alan Alda, that was a great choice, & as always, he's a pro. Watching this for the 1st time, was utterly engaging, & all too believable. -------------------MJL, 75 y/o
this is a conversation that never would happen. I wish we had a president that could do this. The hand over of power with a real understanding of what is going on in the world.
The writers missed an opportunity here to show the candidates in a different light. Imagine this scene if Vinnick asked the military question and Santos followed with the diplomatic question. It would have showed that both candidates understanding that they couldn’t ignore the other side argument in situations like this.
It still seems a fantasy to expect our politicians to act in noble, ethical and altruistic ways, but that is not the way of our world. I wish Sorkin's dream was reality.
@Jim Dandy ... Though that didn't happen it is literally the President's job to ensure that the country isn't handed over to a criminal. If there was such an investigation we wouldn't be in the mess we are in now with a dangerously unstable known criminal and his crime family occupying the White House.
Having watched both this series and Netflix's House of Cards a few years later, I'm struck at the contrast in how both shows present similar subject matter. The West Wing presents a very optimistic view of politics, where people often disagree on the approach but are still working toward the same goal and can work together, or at least be civil toward one another. Meanwhile, House of Cards presents a far darker and more cynical view of politics, where everyone is ruthless and the only rule is, as Frank Underwood put it, "hunt or be hunted."
The Netflix House of Cards was based on the UK House of Cards featuring Francis Urquhart and his rise to power after the Thatcher years. It was released in 1990 and based on a book from '89. The dark, cynical version of politics came first.
Man, a timeline where you have to choose between Franklin “Hawkeye” Pierce or Bail Organa for President of the United States really doesn’t sound so bad.
Just close your eyes for a second and try to imagine Donald Trump being faced with this dilemma. There is no right way to solve it. There is no good answer, only the better of shitty deals. This is the real concern with electing a loudmouth. China doesn't give a good damn about "plain talk", and while it may sometimes be in their best interest to work with us, we are simply upstarts in their eyes. The same goes for Russia, Japan, and the vast majority of Europe. These are ancient and proud societies with very, very old rules on how the game is played, and they don't take well to being bullied. What was the answer to this? In the show, Santos played against all three sides (Russia, China and the Bartlett Administration) and acted like a rogue agent that didn't understand and would just jump. The President and the President Elect pretended to be on opposite sides to get all the parties to calm the hell down and back off. Such a solution only works once. Great powers (unfortunately) often play games of brinkmanship to appear strong to their own people. Starting the dialog with "Well, your just a loser" is dangerous, and Vladimir Putin is not a stupid man nor will he ever bow to threats. He can't. Russians are crazy and will replace him in a heartbeat with a tank. The reason we, as a people,invented manners in the first place was to keep the loudmouths from messing up every negotiation we have. Civility and respect, combined with a large stick in your hand is the way to deal with real problems. If everyone keeps swinging those sticks around all the time, they lose their power for peaceful resolutions, and everything just becomes a nuclear stick fight.
+ered203 - I mostly agree with you. But, don't worry about Donald Trump. With the loss in Iowa (I always thought he would have problems when the time came when people would have to cast their vote - It's called fear). He will not have a chance in New Hampshire. As the GOP candidates leave the race, most of their votes will go to anyone but Trump. After all, Trump was the renegade. He was the choice opposed to all the others. Now he will have to deal with that choice & the consequences. As far as the other things you said, I don't believe the US ever understood the mindset of the East. We only assumed we did. And, I am sure you know the final outcome of assume.
