Vidal becoming a mother is not an excuse for her to lose all her personality Chiaotzu comes to mind as an example of a character toriyama ran out of any ideas for very quickly after his introduction
You could see that her character made switch during Buu attack. Pan is still infant and needs to be taken care for. Since Gohan is working as a young scientist, you could Videl is the one taking care of Pan. She most likely even wants to be around infant Pan.
@@dreamcore7 True, but she clearly isn't the only one looking after Pan. Piccolo often does it for her, to the point he's proficient at it even. Not to mention Mr.Satan also occasionally looks after her. Maybe she does occasionally train in her down time or even do her Great Saiyawoman thing, but if we don't see it, it might as well not have happened at all. I don't expect her to become as strong as Krillin or anything, but it'd be nice to see her try, because it made her interesting.
@@dreamcore7 This is a human who, upon learning flight was real, demanded to be taught how to fly. Yes she underwent a horrible attack at the WMAT, and by Buu, but everything about her said she'd want to learn how to overcome those obstacles, not give up and rely on others. Honestly I see more of her personality in Android 18 (less the money greed).
It's classic Toriyama, if he doesn't like writing a character anymore than he will just shaft them in a way where they will make minimal appearances in the plot. Videl, clearly introduced to be Gohan's wife-to-be in a time when Toriyama liked writing Gohan. That's why she had an interesting personality which contrasts with Gohan in many respects like Chichi and Goku. When Toriyama stopped liking Gohan, than he got absorbed by Buu to be something strong for the saiyans to fight, and both Gohan and Videl stopped getting development. Gohan and Videl stopped fighting and quietly live the old fashioned ideal family life, to remove them from the plot as much as possible. It's a disservice to fans but he has been doing this for years and people overall still want more DB, so his methods aren't going to change. He may have decided to give Gohan some spotlight back recently, since he wants to have Pan be a fighter in the future most likely.
I feel like Bulla made Trunks mature a bit. I mean, when you learn that you're going to be an older sibling, you want to be a mature figure they can look up to. Also, he's Vegeta's son, so that works too.
I always felt a decent reason for him to change so fast other than just good marketing potential, was future trunks. What if he didn't just meet Future trunks? What if he spent the day in Future Trunks world saw the devastation, talked to his Future Mom etc? Or it could of just been a pre-recorded message from Future Bulma shown to him as well. Basic idea was Future Trunks/Bulma try to scare him straight by showing him how bad things could get if he kept acting like he did.
@@JustaGuy_Gaming I think it would have been more interesting to see older Trunks as the opossite of future Trunks, showing how their lives made them extremely different people.
Esteban Maysonet yeah but he has a point too we haven’t see more matured, he has a lot of pride and is like his parents of confident so it makes sense why he is different from FT since FT didn’t have the nice life and his father like trunks did also we don’t see the change on him is actually so quickly like I said he haven’t changed and then suddenly when he grows up he is more calm and matured like FT ? ... nah seems forced
@@verutorres9946 would be a bit annoying to be arogant doe, knowing your background and story. Would be a bit iri. Seems he could be a bit cocky, but not much, maybe when hit the strings he get really angry like his father. Other than that be happy, respectable and humble. U get me. That would fit i believe.
I will never not be bitter about the way Chi-chi and Videl were handled as characters. They both had a lot of potential to be interesting and add new dynamic or perspective to the plot, and yet all of that was wasted for bad stereotypes. It's frustrating because it would have been so easy to give both of them their own agency, which is what they lacked in the canon story after Toriyama was done with them. Chi-chi was a goddamn PRINCESS for crying out loud, so what if instead of going off to the countryside to constantly scream at Goku about finding a job, she took over as ruler of the Kingdom and was the one to provide her family with stability while Goku was off training and fighting (I mean, let's face it, she was likely doing most of the work making money anyways, with how often Goku was gone for years at a time)? And instead of freaking out about wanting Gohan to be a scholar, she'd be grooming him as a future King, which would explain why she'd be so pushy and aggressive where he's concerned. And I still feel that Videl working with the police makes a LOT more sense than turning Krillin into a police officer, since that was something she did as a teen and something she enjoyed doing. Female officers are very much a thing, goddamnit, and with how independent and stubborn Videl was shown to be it just doesn't make sense that she made such an extreme personality change into what she now is in Super.
Videl is one of few people who can handle Pan. Gohan has an all-consuming career. What is an average daycare worker going to do when Pan flies out the window?
@@amigabang6157 What about Eighteen? I mean my mother earned cash watching young children for my cousin and a neighbor kid while their single mothers were at work when she was technically still a stay-at-home mom. Eighteen could definitely handle watching Pan while her parents worked, and if she could earn a little extra cash doing so she'd probably be more than happy to help.
OK, but they don't necessarily live near each other. And does 18 want to watch Pan *all day*? Japanese organisations tend to expect full devotion to career and not going home until late.
@@amigabang6157 No she isn't going to be there all day. There are precincts in Japan were officers have 8 hr shifts, which is what you'd get with a 9-5 job. And given Videl's status as a minor celebrity and the daughter of the champ, they'd probably be fine with making a few allowances for her to spend time with her family since her being there would bring a lot of attention (and therefore money) to the force. And as far as travel distance goes, the Gohan literally flew to every corner of the earth in the android saga (starting in South City, going all the way north to Gero's lab which wasn't far from North City, then dropping off Bulma in West City before going east to his home) in a relatively short time span so I don't see that being a huge issue to overcome, especially since Krillin and Eighteen live pretty close to Satan City.
“[...] who said that one couldn’t be both a mother AND a badass? Maybe she should take a few lessons in that with Android 18.” Or your What If version of Gine, for that matter. Just “Saiyan.”
As for Videl, I’ve just kinda headcanoned that her brutal beat down from Spopavich broke her fighting spirit. It’s not good reasoning but it’s reasoning.
Unfortunately, it feels like the only characters from Z that are still 'relevant' in Super, are Vegeta and Goku. The whole Tournament of Power having as many people felt like "Oh yeah, these guys still exist." Before and after the tournament what do we know about any of them? Aside from Vegeta and Goku
Shh you guys hear that? "yamcha!" There it is again! "yamcha!" I think they said Gohan? He's the most under used character that deserves more! "YAMCHA!"
Lyle Smash What if it was easier for humans to master Ultra Instinct than Saiyans? It's not some form of Super Saiyan, so it's something that would be plausible and fair to give to someone like Yamcha.
@@Sailor11Sedna I would like that so the humans of Dragonball have something that makes them useful. Characters like krillin,Tien,chiaotzu,and yamcha deserve more than just staying in the background and talking about how strong everyone else is. These are people who have trained for their entire lives but, get shown up by saiyans. Even kid Goku didn't flex how strong he was on a daily basis.
Wouldn't it be interesting if the human race was actually biologically one of the strongest races, but no human in this present time knows how to unlock such hidden potential?
Goten is Trunk’s conscience that he never follows. When Trunks is not starting trouble, Goten is his spare fusion material for when he decides to use polymerization.
Trunks is actually kinda selfless, like when he motivated Future Trunks, or when he rushed to save Majin Vegeta from Majin Buu, not even thinking of his safety.
Stuff like this is why Im hesitant to genuinely like Akira Toriyama. He’s really talented as an artist and writer and did tons of good work, but man oh man his flaws are so evident.
A lot of these things have nothing to do with Toriyama though. The changes in Trunks and Goten, for starters, are pretty much all anime filler. In the manga, there's not much of a change to their characters at all (granted, we don't see much of them, but Goten seems fairly passive and Trunks still comes across as cocky and confident to me).
Yeah, but his impact on Shonen Manga/Anime is just completely undeniable. The best of the genre like Hunter x Hunter and One Piece wouldn't be able to even exist without Toriyama's profound influence.
I kinda wouldn't like that. As weird as it is, her and Goku's relationship kinda works for them. It makes no sense but Goku's antics don't genuinely seem to bother her and Chi-Chi has never bothered Goku really. Plus, it would basically make fans absolutely stop caring about her at all. I mean she's already unpopular and lacks bulmas tech wizardry to keep her relevant, cool, or interesting.
Before watching the video Im gonna say it, Some of these characters are only boring because the creator doesnt want to do anything interesting with them
It's hilarious how Piccolo (Jr) and (Prince) Vegeta are Toriyama's favourite and one of his supposed least favourite characters respectively and yet both are arguably the most developed characters in the whole series
@@Nicolas-pw9eo really, really long time ago. Might've grown on him or something because the spotlight is on him and goku once vegeta achieves super saiyan blue.
@@Reality-Distortion They are outdated statements, but when he made it, he was still working on Dragon Ball or recently concluded it, so they are important since he worked on the entirety of Z with these opinions in mind. He had some strong feelings going on for both characters, and in my opinion that's why Vegeta and Piccolo manage to provoke a stronger response in the fans.
@@DanielLopez-ob9jz I doubt Vegeta's grown on him. The truth is Akira Toriyama knows Vegeta is extremely well loved by a lot of DB fans, so he wouldn't dare get rid of the character. It's also why we ultimately got the Buu Saga because a lot of fans weren't happy the Cell Saga ended with Gohan, not Goku, as the hero. If I'm not mistaken, Toriyama's original plan was to end the series with Goku passing the torch of Earth's defender to his son Gohan, but because of said backlash, the Cell Saga was no longer a viable end to the franchise and thus the Buu Saga was born. Goku fans outnumber fans of other characters so Goku will always have the #1 spot(light.) Since Vegeta probably has the second biggest group of fans, he's not going anywhere & will remain nicely behind Goku in power. Basically, Toriyama actually listens to his fans (for the most part) and that's definitely one of the man's most redeeming qualities. (I wish other people could be just as caring about what their fans want. Within reason, of course.)
That could be an interesting What If video for you Masako What If Chichi didn't stop fighting ? Like if she continue sparring and fighting with Goku and the others. Would she become the strongest earthling? Would she raise Gohan and Goten differently ? How would the story change if she was on the battle field?
I LOVED this discussion Masako. You pinpointed plenty of characters that i thought about myself. I know you only mentioned her as an example, but Android 18 is my favorite female character BECAUSE she's developed in a believable way; becoming kind and finding stability in her family. yet she's still a no-nonsense badass to the core.
How did Hercule get robbed? Totally agree with Videl but Mr. Satan was always strong for a normal human but absolutely nothing for a z-fighter. Tien or maybe even Krillin at their introduction could probably have beaten him with no issue and the only reason that's debatable at all is because Mr. Satan did win a world martial arts tournament on his own and probably legitimately.
Doesn't hurt that it's bad art design as well. Seriously a lot of the less popular characters look exactly alike as well. Body types, facial features, hair color all copy paste efforts. Again it seems to hit the women the worst. For what ever reason they can be unique characters when young but as they age up they all look and act alike.
It's called getting Cold Feet and giving the spotlight back to Goku Edit: in Toei and Toriyama's defence, most people do love Goku more than other characters. So it's all about... MARKETING!!
I dont know anyone personnally who likes Goku more then anyone after dragon Ball Z starts. i could be wrong but i thought most people moved on to either vegeta or gohan
@@kyleellis9177 Goku's my favorite because no matter the baddie he's always willing to try to find the good and give em a chance to change their evil ways. Though this may only apply to the 90s english dub Superman persona they gave him.
It would be interesting if Yamcha kept his sword and incorporated it into his attacks (of course it would not be able to be used in the Tenkaichi). I wish Tenshinhan and Chaozu were able to remain more relevant, with the latter there could have multiple ways he could assisted in a supportive capacity. If power levels were never introduced, I wonder if the humans could still be more relevant as there may not be such an observable way to notice the gaps in power. Completely agree with Videl. Her personality has basically been revamped. In her first appearance she was a feisty, stubborn fighter who helped the police in taking out criminals from around the city. If I remember correctly, she wanted to become a police officer and they could have capitalised on that instead of Krillin I could imagine (before Pan arrives). She used her detective skills to figure out Gohan's identity and was even cunning enough to blackmail him into getting what she wants. She had devoted herself to training martial arts her entire life and completely loses that drive after she is beaten in the tournament. In fact she loses any drive to help out fighting criminals in Satan City. She turns into a typical wife character. Seeing that the power of the ki was real after believing for years her father had been labelling them as cheap tricks, I could imagine her exploring ki further. I could imagine her opening her own training school or helping out in another character's training school like Tenshinhan's on training those with ki. The Supreme Kai too. He was introduced with a mysterious aura that made you question whether he could have been the next threat for the Dragon Team. Then we find out that he is inexperienced and ignorant of many things that he should know. I wish Recoome and Jeice in the Ginyu Force were given more unique characteristics just like their other three members.
Thank you for mentioning how badly Toriyama wasted Videl's character. Watching Z for the first time, I had high expectations of her. There was a lot of potential in her to become something like the first in a new generation of Z fighters. I mean for god's sake, the girl went from having never even heard of ki to first flight in less than a day. But nope, housewife.
@@infinite-sadness Because Videl isn't even videl anymore. Videl was a badass tsundere who forced the strongest person on the planet to teach her how to fly. She was stronger than Mr Satan as a teen girl (which seems lame but remember hercule is actually stronger than most martial artists) and she was pretty much a high school super hero before Saiyaman was even a thing. And now shes a docile housewife who wears pink sweaters. Do you really have to ask why i hate her now? Same reason i hate chi chi after. Dragon Ball
@@philosopher9672 hate is a strong word. Do you just hate anyone who doesn't fight all the time, i can get disappointment and apathy, but hate just seems a bit much. I mean Chichi only trained so she could track down goku and get him to marry her anyway, her as an annoying character is what makes people hate her, not the fact that she stopped fighting, but can't say i'm surprised the DB community always turns on characters when they stop fighting all the time.
@@infinite-sadness Lol resorting to strawmanning and semantics already? That was fast. Yes, I hate current day Chi Chi and Videl because they are betrayals of who they used to be, fighting has nothing to do with it, you dolt. Chi chi being an anti-fun tiger mom doesnt make sense. Chi Chi is a princess who was both an adventurer and fighter herself (she was a fighter before meeting Goku), even if she decided to stop fighting she should have resources from the Ox King but they completely retconned the Ox and Chi Chi. She should understand the value of training and adventuring but they turn her into a 100% hypocrite. I already explained videls case. Lol how about you learn how to craft an actual argument before you go around being self righteous on the internet, dickhead.
I'm surprised Beerus hasn't been mentioned. He went from mysterious and threatening deity to loudmouth kitty who is always hungry. And he was even reduced to a babysitting role in the Broly movie. He did have a moment of awesome by erasing Zamasu and some small humanized moments in the ToP arc, but it's clear that Beerus has been reduced to a measuring stick for power levels and comedy relief at this point. Unless he gets humanized more in Super's return, then I do not see much more to do with his character.
Some character development I'd of liked seeing in Videl. She grew up with Hercule as a father and carried some of the lies and missconceptions about martial arts he spread getting famous after the Cell games. Meeting Gohan, discovering his Sayaman activities, and learning to fly began to weaken this misconceptions in her mind, but they still had a hold her. She still believed she had no chance fighting her dad and that she was on even footing with Gohan. What if the Z warriors never showed up to break the punching scale and announce themselves as Gohans friends normalizing that kind of strength to her? What if she had to see Gohan beat her father after beating her in the tournament to change her perspective about fighting technique and potential.
Zeno should have been better, subversion is fine and fun but he's the most powerful character we will EVER see, so i think they should have taken him a little more seriously, at least on terms of design.
@@ShadowWolfRising as far as we know... but you're right about Ki and Flying, and Videl is clearly more powerful in the present. But remember, Age and Experience matters. Even Goku will ask Master Roshi to train him (when he isn't training with Gods)
For Chichi I think the fact that her father was a reformed bandit and her husband is a combat freak had an effect on her. I think her pushing her children has less to do with said kids' ability and more to do with fear that if not pushed her boys will end like their father and grandfather. I think Vidal's came from realizing that her father was a fraud. My guess is following the Buu saga Vidal became Saya Girl as a way to keep the passion for fighting she always had while spending time with her boyfriend. However, somewhere down the line she realized it wasn't the same. Her desire to fight in a big way came from how she wanted to emulate and surpass her father, then she realized her dad's legacy was a lie. Maybe with the pedestal her father was on crushed, she decided to emulate the parent that hadn't disappointed her, her late mother. Since she was so young when her mom pass away she can only go off of what others have told her, and maybe some faded memories from her youth. So, rather than emulating the real person her mother was, Vidal emulates an ideal version of her. I think it would be interesting if both we and Vidal found out her mother was a badass, and see how that affected Vidal.
Videl in Dragonball Super literally looks like they shot Videl from DBZ in the face, melted her in acid, and just got a totally different woman with the same name.
Yamcha is probably a good example too, as well as Tenshinhan. After the Saibaman fiasco for Yamcha, and the Semi-Perfect Cell event for Ten, Toriyama clearly didn't know what else to do with them. That's why with the exception of RoF for Ten, both characters only get really cool moments in filler thanks to the anime staff (Yamcha vs Recoome, Tenshinhan vs Jeice and Burter, Yamcha vs Olibu, Yamcha training with Krillin on Other World), or in Yamcha's case, a spin-off manga that technically wasn't even Yamcha. I'd love to see these two treated with a little more respect in the future, outside of memes (guess who) and Ten getting his ass kicked by Gohan. *Hard.*
I'd have to imagine that meeting a future version of yourself would be pretty jarring. I can see why he would go more stoic and show less emotion after seeing his future self wallow in self pity. Just a thought.
What I would like to see is goten and trunks get trained by gohan in the room of spirit and time. Giving them all room to grow literally and figuratively
Videl had a great potential! I hated she just became a housewife just as chichi did. I still think she could continued training and even become strongest human in dbz. She able to control her ki in less than a week when trained by gohan and the niece if not mistake an additional weeks afterwards. Took masters years to do this and she managed to do it in weeks to maybe a month which showed how much potential she had. She could been a strong or stronger than tien, krillin, and roshi. I wished they kept her a martial artist that tried to push herself far beyond human limitations
Toriyama can't write female characters. He sexualizes underage girls (Bulma, Chi-Chi), plays sexual harassment/assault for comedy (every female character Roshi has ever met), hinges all their character on finding a man (Bulma, Chi-Chi, even Launch and Cheelai to some extent), turns potentially badass women into boring, stereotypical housewives devoid of character (Chi-Chi, Videl, Gine), portrays most women as unreasonable and prone to violent bursts of anger (Chi-Chi, Bulma, Bad Launch, although that one kind of makes sense, and a rare positive example in Videl), and makes them vain and focused on their appearance, although I'm pretty sure that one only applies to Bulma. And you know what? Fine. That's not really the root of the problem. The real problem is that he surely KNOWS all this by now and KNOWS that it's a problem, but still refuses to actually CONSULT women when he's writing female characters. It's practically writing 101 that if you don't know how to write a certain type of character, you ask someone who does. The fact that he won't do that is why I don't think he has the most progressive view of women.
somebody else believes that goku should have as his wife a female saiyan warrior who loves fighting instead of a housewife with whom she has nothing in common and usually goku is absent in house to go training
It's time for Toriama to learn from the west and let go of full-time writing Dragon Ball and just supervise the initial character creation. What he did to Vidal is a flipping crime.
Would be much more interesting for main timeline kid Trunks to grow up with a different personality/attitude to future Trunks, as the former mostly lived through peaceful times and knew little hardship and the latter had to quickly mature just to survive, not to mention being sombered by constant loss. The difference would highlight that travelling in time could make ourselves unrecognisable - that we wouldn't be who we are, sometimes in an unexpectedly bad way.
I think we can fix ChiChi by making her a badass grandma. Think Tsunade from Naruto's strength and temper, combined with the dowager from Downton Abbey in frank wisecracking.
Deshion Brown there are plenty of them. Heles Vados Cus Margarita Bulma Fortune Teller Baba Mai Arale Annin Princess Snake Maron Cocotte Caulifla Kale Caway Monna Brianne de Chateau Sanka Coo Sous Roas Bikal Tights Launch
@@LuisBrito-ly1ko yeah, but the only ones who are consistently relevant are Bulma, 18, Caulifla, Kale and to a lesser extent Mai, Videl, Chi-chi, and Pan (and Arale in the best filler). Launch hasn't been seen since super. Bulla was a character point for Vegeta and Bulma and hasn't really done anything (she was just born though so not her fault). Maron is a toddler. Baba is rarely seen (though her appearances are great, I just wish she showed up more, especially since she IS Roshi's sister). Nearly all the rest you mentioned aren't really recurring characters. This means that our Z-fighter women amount to 18 (who did not fight outside the tournament during buu arc and barely fought in super even during the tournament), Caulifla and Kale (who aren't from universe 7), Pan (who is a toddler until GT if that's still Canon), and Bulma (who isn't really a fighter). Chi-chi and Videl don't fight anymore. Mai has only displayed talent with guns and only been a hero in Future Trunk's timeline, otherwise she's a minor joke villain. See the problem? It's not a literal lack of female characters or even returning characters, it's that most of them are tertiary and the ones that aren't are distinctly not the main heroes who actually contribute to the plot (aside from Bulma, she frequently contributes outside of combat but she's probably the only one).
@@Kobolds_in_a_trenchcoat He talked about women that aren’t wives. Not about fighters. Hence my response. In any case, I don’t see that as a “problem”. Look at Jojo’s Bizarre Adventure, for example. Most of the cast is male and nobody complains. Also Mai *was* a joke villain. She isn’t anymore.
That thought of chichi and vadel training to release stress would been fun to see. Ill give them something to bond and talk about family or anything else as they spar.
I wish Goku married Bulma and Vegeta married Launch! That would be a way better/more interesting match up. Launch would put Vegeta in his place and he'd probably make a remark about her becoming a super saiyan when she sneezes! Plus Goku's kids would be smart and probably want to train with him and feel like Goku would welcome that idea and bulma would love her man spending so much time with the kids. Vegeta pre super was kinda distant. But Goku would have a real bond beyond blood.
Thank you for putting it in prospective. The reason why Chi-Chi is annoying is because she's essentially "your mom". Everything you find frustrating about about your mother. Specifically when she's nagging you. Instead of complaining about Goku, couldn't Chi-Chi just get a job and hire a housemaid? And if she did divorce Goku, it would come to that.
Imagine if db was written by a competent writer, in terms of characters and characterization... It arguably would have been over 9000 times more legendary than what it was already.
*cough* one piece *cough* Ok, it doesn't do time as well since one piece canonically takes place over about a year or so not counting the time skip but it does successfully keep all characters relevant and interesting and sets up plot points that actually pay off literally years or upwards of a decade in advance.
If I could've added anything to the Resurrection F movie or its arc in Super, it would've been some of Frieza's soldiers breaking off, heading into the city, and getting trounced by the likes of 18 and Videl. Maybe, in the movie's case, Yamcha trying to teach Goten and Trunks the Wolf Fang Fist to distract them, keep them from getting involved in the bigger fight, and Chi-Chi shows she's done *some* training by taking care of a goon or two herself.
Well there is something to be said of focus towards a supporting cast, in life we have times were we just kind of stand around while things happen around us, becoming a background character in our own way but never to the point where that role defines us. It is a shame that characters lose traits of their identity and/or becoming stagnant when they have been the point of focus atleast once, if a character is still alive in the universe I would prefer them to keep their original point of view unless explained why it has changed, I like Tien for this reason, always training with his best friend in the mountains even if it isn't always shown, we know where he'll be and that he is always working to become a better fighter, even though his character wasn't original that, it's great we got to see why he does it and how this viewpoint came to be.
Trunks changed because he realized how awful his future selfs life is and he had to mature because he had a sibling and vegeta was tough on him. Gohan's character isn't a mess at all he chose to be a scholar and give up fighting because he knew goku and vegeta would always save the day which is correct. How is gohan achieving his dream, goten gaining more confidence, trunks becoming more mature, and videl embracing her role as a mother changes for the worst? People actually saw zeno as creepy? Mysterious I understand but creepy? Smh
I think it would be a good direction to give those mentioned characters a spot of light. For instance, Goten and Trunks actually go to their fathers to demand that they train them to become stronger since insinuating that they felt left out from BIG fights. I’d like to see a sparring match between Videl and Chi Chi but the character that got dealt the most dirt was Launch. She’s still an open potential character. Awesome vid though man.
I think the change of Goten and Trunks is good. Honestly who would want somone who is from a heir(prince) to be rude, arogant and being hyper in adult form. I think Trunks older version is fine, respectable and understandable. Somone said him being bigger brother, made him realise to be more serious/mature and humble. When get older norm too. Goten changed bcus being the smallest. Made him maybe him more chill aswell bcus of his b brother Gohan being good in school. Getting few from characterist f trunks. Aswell knowing having family and friends, him a bit being heroes. Made him gain some confidence and easyness. The videl and chichi part is bit sad yeah, bit turn of even. Videl prob should fight more dk. Atleast got good backstory and develop at start. Thi if Chichi would fit being nurse, kindergarden, amusement center to ease her (give dev) some to do! I think Akira handled it better than most peeps.
Toriyama isn't the only manga writer who's come out and said that he doesn't really know how to write female characters, and it's just as absurd every time someone says it. It says a lot about how women are "othered" in so many cultures (including western ones, to be clear) that a lot of men seem to view women and women's motivations as something alien and incomprehensible unless they can fall back on traditional gender roles (the wife/mother) or other stereotypes.
I feel like a lot of Shonen writers (and writers in general tbf) feel a need to make women characters be women for a reason, like it's a defining aspect of their character and personality and not just a minor note that doesn't necessarily mean much or is only relevant in certain situations.
For me some of the most boring characters were those dragged over from Dragon ball into Z for no reason other than "reference". Every time the likes of Oolong or Turtle were on screen you knew it was just going to be a time filler scene. To a degree even Master Roshi fell into this for a long time. Nothing like going from an epic fight between Goku and some super powered being, then swapping back to Roshi and the gang sitting around watching the fight. Not only were the characters not used in a way to advance their own story arcs but they just felt like they were there to waste time and pad out the episodes. To make DBZ the meme that it was where a single fight takes dozens of episodes to conclude.
I don't mind them being filler characters but I wish they would at least get lines every once in a while. I love Turtle and Oolong was a genuinely funny character in the original series but I'm not sure Turtle got a single line and I don't think Oolong got more than 2 in super. Turtle was like the third recurring character we ever saw.
@@Kobolds_in_a_trenchcoat far as I remember in Z turtle had a few lines in the start, when they were all at Roshi's house before Gohan was taken. Not sure he made many other appearances after that. But yeah I mean it was kind of bound to happen. The Series loved to introduce new characters every arc but seemed to be unwilling to get rid of any one afterwards. They just hung around and existed. The story couldn't' even treat "main characters" well like Krillin let alone walk on side characters.
I just realized this Gohan wanted to study more then train but Goku made him fight. The. Goten wants to train more then study but chi chi makes him study. I call witch craft
I can think of two reasons why trunks would change over time one is something happened in the briefs family forcing him to buckle down and focus on becoming more of a leader. And the second one is based more on super because of the way that Mai in the past looked at Future trunks, he could have tried to make himself more like his future incarnation to impress Mai, conversely he could have also have been told by his parents about the world that the future him came from and it inspired him to work upon himself to be more like what he sees as a cooler version of himself.
I completely agree with what you said about Videl. We could have had this badass female character with great chemistry with Gohan, but instead we got the typical mom character. :/
Being bad at writing something, I agree, is not an excuse to write badly. If you know that about yourself, then you shouldn't set yourself up the way Toriyama did. And if you are really that desperate to set yourself up like that, git gud. You owe that to your readers, to yourself and most importantly, to your characters. A writer is like a god in many ways, and you have your pick of what kind of god you want to be; benevolent, mad, a god of war, you name it. But never ever let yourself become a neglectful god.
@@elijahtoombs3524 Either don't write things you know you can't write, or make it so that they become things you can write. Trying to write something, discovering you can't write it and then giving up and delivering a poor story is half-assing it, and you owe your readers, yourself and most importantly your characters better than that.
You should rewrite z as a what-if series! such as what would you change about these characters? what would you do about the shortcomings that the show has made? how would you change it? i really want to hear what you'd do for the series!
This might be a little different for a What If, but what about: Majin Buu Saga, Draft 2? Instead of changing one major plot element, essentially re-write the Buu saga to be a little bit of a mess - primarily to avoid this whole issue. Stuff like giving Videl some involvement in the story after getting clobbered by Spopovitch - if she now survives the encounter at all, or Gohan becoming a more active protagonist, or at least integrating his failure better into his character arc.
I liked Goten up through the tournament. Once he became half of Gotenks, he just kinda fell through the cracks and became less interesting to me. Now, I do like Gotenks, but I feel like once he debuted, the two kids that make him up kinda got the shaft in terms of characterization. The only exception would be Goten's reaction to his mom's death, where he jumped right into training in the time chamber, while Trunks was still just looking around. But other than that one instance, I feel like the two lost a lot of individuality and became far less interesting after they mastered fusion.
After super, I feel like Toriyama shouldn't be allowed to do anything other than pitch ideas. Somebody more competent needs to be the main writer(s) and hold executive authority over what goes through. The Broly film felt like a fluke.
very interesting video, and well a shame that neither Toriyama nor anyone at Toei knew/know what to do with these characters to make them interesting and more relevant to the story, the only thing left for them is to create the club of the wasted potential -.-
Hay masako would you consider doing a video on picalo. Everyone loves saiyans but I have an idea for a video. The idea is that picalo has a son of his own you know besides gohan, as we have seen picalo has some paternal instincts and after fusing with nail his personality became a little bit kind . I think that the kids name should be chanter witch is a smaller version of the bagpipes continuing with the whole instrument naming theme. : )
I might get some heat for this but your going to have to put Beerus on this list then. Started as a really cool antagonist in BOG and opened up and entire universe of possibilities (literally universe of possibilities). Then after that he gets quickly demoted to a supporting role and is basically around to just eating, yelling, and sleeping. In the Broly movie he's in there for only a couple minutes and is just there to babysit Bulla. He's a deity with millions of years of experience who if used correctly could've been shown to be in a world that Goku and Vegeta no matter how hard they try is in a world that they can't reach or understand. Nowadays he's as useless as Shin or Supreme Kai for those that don;t know his real name.
Personally, I still find him hilarious since he got such a huge demotion and I like him the way he is. He's still super strong and could take any threat from the heroes if he wanted, he just doesn't care to and wants a good fight from Goku and/or Vegeta eventually. I just find it funny to watch him get humiliated in the meantime. It's like watching vegeta and his bingo dance for me.
And this is why Abridged will always be superior compared to the original. They give all the characters great moments throughout the series and make them all into unforgettable characters. Just my opinion that's all. *Cough cough* TFS should be canon *cough cough*
You do realize the only thing Team Four Star really does better is comedy . . . . right? All of the inconsistencies, character shafting,and plot holes are still there.
@@CombatSportsNerd yes but no. The characters look the same but are completely different because of their personalities and the plot is the same but yet feels like a completely different stories not only because of comedy but they actually direct the story far better than the original making it more likeable
@@GrainSummoner whether it feels different or not doesn't change the fact that it's literally the same plot with the same issues as the original. They gave the characters more exaggerated personality but at the end of the day Team Four Star simply took them from useless to useless but funny.
@@CombatSportsNerd woah if you think I'm criticising TFS then I'm not on any level doing so all I'm saying is that TFS is better since it can pull off all the characters whilst keeping the same storyline but with a comedy twist that's all
That's the problem when you create more characters than you know what do with. It's no secret that for the most part Toriyama was basically making the story up as he goes along chapter to chapter. While this isn't inherently a bad thing (it's very clearly not as the original DB Manga is iconic) it does come with the risk of not properly planning out the stories of your characters. Either have fewer characters or expand the plot, one of them needs to accommodate the other. Having said that most of the characters listed in this video do have potential to become interesting again. Heck you could even make some good 'what-ifs' out of some of these characters.
I may be the only one here, but Goten DOES have a personality, albeit a simple one. I mean, c'mon, which half of Gotenks do you think came up with the Super Ghost Kamikaze Attack? That's definitely not Trunks' creativity, that's straight-up Goten. While I admit that he's gotten practically NO development, he still has a very childish nature. I hate to say this, but he started out with more personality than Kid Goku started with.
I want goku to win fights with his brain and not with a new super saiyan that’s my biggest problem with dragonball,(i’m not really a Z fan. I think super is OK. and I love the OG db)
Veru Torres the show and Akira himself stated that he’s a genius in fighting. So, making him win through strategy rather than strength would be in character.
stefan groen well my real issue with dragon ball is that the writers lowers Goku’s IQ for the sake of plot. In the original dragon ball, Goku was way smarter than his adult counterparts. It was more empathic and fighting wasn’t his top and only priority 100% of the time ( and this has nothing to do with the dub because I watched the sub too and the difference between OG Goku and DBZ Goku is noticeable. )
While I agree that ChiChi was one of the characters I enjoyed in Dragonball and not so much in DBZ but I understand her character development of being a mother and her wanting more from her son that just another fighter. However, I do not agree with the change in Videl. Loved Videl when she was first introduced. She was a sporty tomboy that could kick anyone's ass. Under all that was someone sweet. Seeing Gohan and Videl's relationship blossom and allow Videl to lower her guard felt natural. But then she lost all that character. Such a waste
it's kind of the problem with his writing style, he just forgets about progressing the characters despite keeping them around, remember when the Appearance of Shin was meant to be this huge deal, he was the Supreme Kai after all, now look at him.
There was a DBZ/ Sailor Moon crossover where I remember Usagi trained the girls in private and when the guys were captured they were the ones to save them. I know I have such a fight scene in one that I have called Legendary but I'd need to fully look to see if it is the one
Can someone please explain what's going on with the frame in the the top right corner that keeps clipping into his head. It looks like he is sitting in front of a projector and I dont know why.
Toriyama did a disservice to ChiChi and Videl. Videl was awesome! Even more so after ChiChi was no longer a fighter and Bulma was being pushed to sideline. Finally, a girl who can kick butt with the rest of them! And then she get's a 180 change that puts her into the same type as Bulma's mom ("Oh look, Bulma has a mom. Ok bye."). I had been thinking a long while back, that ChiChi may have regretted marrying Goku and feared that Gohan would turn into his father so this turned her into an overprotective overbearing mother who was absurdly and obsessively strict with Gohan's education and someone the viewer no longer cared about, and even disliked. What would have been so bad about a ChiChi that was feminine and wanted to be saved, only to find that she could take care of herself when push came to shove? But as Toriyama has stated, he doesn't know how to write female characters and so pushes them into the sidelines (if they're lucky) or into storage (Tien) or kills them off.
Toriyama horribly changed Yamcha... Destroyed his future because he "cheated" but nothing has happened because he's still got his fear of women... wait... what?
Why is it weird that trunks and Goten gain each others personallities they spent how long during the buu saga as a single person. i bet they picked up alot of each others personality. throw in the tie they spent in the room of spirit and time and thats like a month as Gotenks atleast.
I wouldn't want Chi-chi to be a fighter like the others, but i'm sure there had to be SOMETHING that could be done with her other than jokes and a means to create Gohan. As for Videl, if she wasn't going to become one of the Z fighters, she could at least have become the new martial arts champion after her father retired, that way she could still be fighting and even training people and sometimes with Gohan. Also the idea of Gohan being the housewife of the relationship is pretty funny and cute.
