This and That: 2018 GP France (Evgenia Medvedeva, Nathan Chen, Papadakis and Cizeron, Rika Kihira) 

00:00 Evgenia Medvedeva 30:00 Marin Honda 37:00 Rika Kihira 43:00 Sotskova, konstantinova, tennell 53:00 Aymoz, samarin, aliev 57:00 jason brown 1:04:00 nathan chen 1:17:00 pairs 1:28:00 ice dance

You guys are spot-on about Medvedeva. I'm just so tired of the panicking/knee-jerk reaction every time she goes out to skate but that's inevitable this season. It's just so unrealistic to expect great programs, great jumps, great SS, and the same consistency after moving to work with a completely different team halfway around the world. Practice is one thing, breaking the old habits that creep out come competition will take a while. I agree she shouldn't go to nationals but I don't know if she feels she can afford to do that.

TIMESTAMPS: 1:05 - Dave’s Mandy Wötzel moment 1:58 - Intro to Ladies & Evgenia Medvedeva + a small discussion on countries' Nationals (at 4:40) 30:20 - Marin Honda 32:30 - Marin and Eunsoo, and how they're like Dave's nephews 36:27 - Mai Mihara 37:47 - Rika Kihira 43:00 - Maria Sotskova 44:10 - Stanislava Konstantinova 44:31 - Bradie Tennell 53:05 - Kevin Aymoz FS kudos 54:48 - Alexander Samarin 55:15 - Dimitri Aliev 56:13 - Romain Ponsart 57:24 - Jason Brown + lil bit on Stephen Gogolev (59:03) 1:04:02 - Nathan Chen 1:04:30 - Karma for Kanada 1:06:26 - Back to Nathan Chen + 1:12:03 - Dave's honest rant about college athletes 1:17:40 - Tarah Kayne & Danny O'Shea 1:20:55 - Vanessa James & Morgan Cipres 1:23:13 - North Korean team Ryom Tae-ok & Kim Ju-sik 1:25:03 - Aleksandra Boikova & Dimitrii Kozlovskii + Tamara Moskvina 1:27:40 - Shoutout to Camille Ruest & Drew Wolfe 1:27:52 - Papadakis & Cizeron 1:32:43 - Kaitlin Hawayek & Jean-Luc Baker + Piper Gilles & Paul Poirier 1:35:33 - Victoria Sinitsina & Nikita Katsalapov 1:36:54 - Ice dance politics 1:38:18 - How Hubbell & Donohue fits into the top ice dance teams picture + the Montreal camp 1:43:30 - Closing comments

Evgenia is under ridiculous scrutiny and needs a sports psychologist and I hope her team is having her see one starting this week. If any gymnastics fans recall 2013 when Simone Biles had a meltdown at the US Classic and withdrew from competing her last event, vault. Six weeks later after working with a psychologist she won Nationals and has been undefeated since.

Loved everything you said about Evgenia’s situation. I have rarely seen Brian look like this. He looks devastated and i think this whole thing is hitting him quite hard. I hope everything works out in the end for their team but i don’t think skipping nationals will do it for Rusfed. She still needs their support for scores and she does not want to become the girl that skips competitions now. She needs to keep fighting. Also really loved your points about Rika. She is a great competitor. She has learned how to handle pressure and fight the right battles on the ice. Watching her grow is so incredibly interesting. She is going to come to GPF guns blazing and I’m ready for this showdown between her, Alina and Tuktamysheva.

Another point about Nathan...There was an article in a Russian magazine that was from an interview with Raf, and he said Nathan felt he had to try to do Yale this year because he was offered $100K scholarship from them. That made me understand better why he is at least trying to do both this year. Skating is so short term in the grand scheme of life and how do you turn down a scholarship of that size to such a prestigious school. It is a great boost for post-skating life. And you are not guaranteed a full ride scholarship if you delay attending.

I love how you mentioned that Rika needs to land triple axel after triple axel in front of Alina in practice at the Final because that’s basically how Alina won the Olympics. She kept landing those crazy 5 triple combos in practice and everyone else was just like how do we compete with that.

With Medvedeva at the moment I'm a bit confused. We have Brian saying that this is a long term process and that a lot needs to be changed, which sure I can see the argument for, but I don't understand how he expected these goals to coincide with Medvedeva doing the GP series and going to the GPF (he might not have expected her to win everything but I do think they expected her to qualify for the final). Added to this is the fact that Brian isn't just reworking the technique on almost all of her jumps but giving Medvedeva a new program style to adjust to and new elements (like the loop combos) that she has never done in competition before. Given this is a supposed to be a long term process I don't understand the purpose of making all of these changes in one season - whilst Zhenya is also competing internationally. Maybe if they'd taken the year off, let her really heal up, work on her basics, and then done a total revamp it might have worked out but it all seems very rushed. I wonder if it might have been better to pace her a little. For example decide to either stretch her choreographically in the free by giving her a different style of music OR decide to stretch her technically and really work on getting an improved/flat edge Lutz in there. Similarly, even if we just focus on the jumps for a moment, I don't understand why they thought during a season when they are already changing a lot of the technique on her jumps, they also had to change her layout...even adding upgrades. The 2A-3Lo is a perfect example of this, they took a jump which they had just completely changed/upgraded the technique on (and as a result has been a little iffy in competition this season) and then put a 3Loop combo on it - something Zhenya had never done in competition before! This is meant to be a long term strategy, they have four years. Why are they rushing to increase Zhenya's tech before she's stabilised what she has? Overall I think this mixed strategy has done Zhenya no favours. I think perhaps Brian was maybe too optimistic/relying to much on her mental strength and her determination but there is only so much you can do in six months and I think they overloaded her. Maybe it's like you say and there its a lack of seeing the forest for the trees but I really hope they step back and reassess their plan/goals for this season. Zhenya's confidence seems to have been very badly dented. She came in looking visibly tense and was cautious throughout both her programs. It seemed like she gave up half way through the FS, not even trying to add a combination to her 3S. (sorry for the essay)

Rika kihira and G/P were my favourite of the event. It will be interesting to see rika and alina face off in the final. I like both alina and rika but I like rika's programs more this season.

Medvedeva’s jumping technique needs lots of fine-tuning. The upper body rotation that used to be her best weapon isn’t gonna sail her through the jumps anymore. And i agree with you guys, the Eteri school jumping technique doesn’t fair well when a skater matures

50:48 speaking of hair!! did anyone notice evgenia went back to her old hairstyle? she (her team) had changed it to a sleeker, far more sophisticated look for skate canada, but she was back to those "rolled" sides for both programs this time. they make her look old (in an unflattering granny type way) and unfashionable. i think the fact that she went back to this hairstyle is very telling of her clinging on to this small bit familiarity and comfort when everything else around her is completely different. its like going back to her old technique at the last moment. it may seem small/trivial, but i really think the hairstyle move here is indicative of some level of panic.

Totally agree about Medvedeva! It is a hell of a change the one she is undergoing, and it wouldn't be a change in depth if it could be done in three months! Thinking of Osmond three GP ago and now it's what really shows what endurance really does if you are talented and she is! P/C one foof stseq it's AWESOME!

Papadakis/Cizeron brought in Lambiel to add another choreographic voice for the FD this year, much like last year when they brought in ABT principal Jeffery Cirio. A general impression is that, whether we like the music or not, the choreography flowed in subtle ways with the phrasing in the songs. And there's an emphasis on responding to the mood of the music over showiness. Their sliding move, for example, is far less showy and eye-catching than Hawayek/Baker's but there's a tender beauty to it that can be really touching, when then first look down and then turn and slide on both knees while looking up as if in prayers. The character step sequence showed some real "dancing" that we've never seen other teams do. I too noticed what Jonathan referred to as the "off" in synchronization in that sequence--not totally in sync and he was dancing with a sharpness and abandon while she had more relaxed line, but further viewing led me to believe this might be the way it was conceived, in a moment of genuine freedom of expression, that each conveys the feelings of a man and a woman in a relationship as portrayed in the song with slightly different emphases and power. I agree that Gabreilla has shown steady improvement over the seasons. In last year's Beethoven program, her one-foot sequences in the circular step sequence had a sureness and depth of edge not at all lesser than that of Guillaume. Her confidence grew and her emotional projection really surfaced as well. There's a natural sincerity in the intensity that she brings, which I imagine plays for the judges at rinkside really well.

It’s so ridiculous that Evgenia scored the highest PCS in her short and free program. It was higher than Rika, Mai and Marin! Evgenia made mistakes and not feeling her programs, she was just dragging herself through the program. I saw under rotations called for the rest of the skaters but Evgenia only had one which was the combination jump she made mistake on. She had a 3F 2T 2T combination jump which looked as if it was single but got +2a GOEs from a few judges.

Should Medvedeva go to Nationals? Yes, that's the only way to go to Euro and Worlds. The president of Rus Fed said yesterday "It's too early to judge about results with new trainer. We all should calmdown and let Evgenia quiet time to prepare for Nationals". I believe that these words were addressed to FS Russian world to stop speculations about her participation in Nationals Rules for national team: first two sport are first two places from Nationals. Third spot can be chosen by fed decision. In recent years Rus fed stricly followed this rule and didn't "over-use" their right to chose the third one. In most cases first three from National were in the team. Fed used its right for third spot in rather exceptional cases when a clear star missed the Nationals due to health or other serious reason. It was the case with Medvedeva last year. That's why Konstantinova was sent to Worlds, she was #4 at Nationals and Med decided not to go. Even if Konstantinova was not the best option in March, but they try to play with clear rules. Otherwise it is a disaster. Is Medvedeva is a clear star this year to go to Euro and Worlds without Nationals? I don't think so . If she were in GPF and had solid performances there - it would be different story. They could have allowed her not to have another inter-continent flight for Nationals. But not now

You've got to remember, Evgenia is for the first time making her own decisions on music choices etc and this is a foreign experience for her. She is transferring from puppet to artist. I'm hoping for her it works.

I agree with you about Medvedeva. She's a woman not a child anymore. She started to struggle last year and people are acting like it's all Brian's doing. This is all a part of the process. People need to pump the breaks with the panic. Rome wasn't built in a day it's going to take time. I didn't like the comment Johnny Weir made, saying that the 2018 Olympics will be her last if she doesn't do something fast. I think that was a dangerous thing to say when her mentality is already strained.

"hanyu is going for +5s at everything, and Nathan is just trying to survive" such gold haha. But in all seriousness, I wish them both well. I like hanyu more, but I hope Nathan gets to shine as well!

You guys were cracking me up with the talk about Tracy. Totally agree, love her expressions and love her! I think she'll be a good influence on Zhenya over the coming years. I appreciate your well thought out critique of her situation too. I hope everyone gives them space to work out their issues. It'll take time, and I'll be here for it when it all comes together.

I dont think Nathan has anything to be alarmed about. He's a smart guy who has been open about his intent to win gold in Beijing. Which goes to say - he knows what he's doing. This season was always going to be a wash for Nathan. Quite frankly, I'm surprised he didn't take this season off after the stress of last season. I think the long term plan is to not peak too early, and really kick things into gear next season.

Good recap guys!! Zagitova is almost done growing. Her jumps were in a slump but they are getting stronger as she adapts. Plus she is jumping more with her legs now. I think she will have longevity if she pursues it. She deserves a little more credit. One may dislike her programs but by and large no one has been more consistent in last 2 years. Those Japanese skaters need to start being consistent so they can be at top of podium. They win then 2 weeks later they fall off. Judges want to give all the points to them but, even the American, don’t like inconsistent programs. Evgenia has bad lutz but she has +5 sow-IMO. She needs to do 2 in free if she was smart.

I hope whomever is working with Evgenia and her fans really listen to your explanation about what's going on. You guys are so on the money. I think eventually she'll be back to a high level. She has two more seasons until the next Olympics, and she can do this. She's still changing and growing and it's not fair that people are crapping on her at this point. I think the Orser-Medvedeva partnership can yield a lot of fruit.

As someone who was at this event in Grenoble. It was quite intense.

You're right that Medvedeva was going to run into some of these issues regardless once her body changed. And it's so difficult for skaters to try to make big offseason changes when, as you mentioned, the skaters feel pressure to have it all together by the time Grand Prix season starts. I know you keep saying finish your antibiotic, but it's like trying to finish a year's worth of antibiotics in a three month span so that the skaters can be ready for competition season.

Choosing two new music styles for this season was a bad move. They are trying to change too much at once. After this weekend I was actually thinking they should put that program on the backburner and redo her "Experience" exhibition (something more her style) as the short program. She clearly is not comfortable. Between now and Russian Nationals Sandra has to help with the packaging of that program if they are going to keep it - including costume. I also would love it if she went to Nationals with her for support. In the future choreographically I hope to see the side of Zhenya that made her special but a little reinvented. At this point, I don't recognize her.

I wonder how serious Evgenia's injuries are. We knew about her stress fracture on the leg, not full healed for long time. Then she cannot do layback spins due to back injury and struggles with spins in general. Just recently, she talked about how she works in nutritionist to basically learn to eat in healthy way... i wonder if maybe these injuries are not causing her mental problems, because she sees she cannot do as much as she used to, she cannot train so hard, she is experiencing problems and it is freaking her out... i know it is just a speculation, but there seems to be a lot of problems.

Love how this starts with Jonathan and his Hermes pillow and Dave with his bloody chin. This is the best! I LOVE YOU GUYS SOO MUCH! And yes, please more insta stories, so good!

I think it says a lot about the ISU that so many people say Medvedeva's skating skills arn't great and yet she got 9.25-9.75 in SP and 9.50-9.75 in FS at Olympics

Evgenia looked miserable before and after both her short and long programs. She looked happy and absolutely transformed before, during and after her Gala performance of "Beautiful Mess". We're watching an artist mature; it takes time and patience.

Regardless of the skating skills, the "fixing" of technique, etc..these programs, especially the short, just do not work for Evgenia. These programs do not set her up for success in these season of transition. She looks tortured skating them.

Is anyone as impressed with Alina’s Charlotte-into-2A? Who else has done that? I watched it, like, 836368 times.

How many skaters/coaches will (secretly) watch your videos to see what suggestions you make? I hope someone at Cricket sees this for Med.

Couldn’t have said it better!, they need to not panic about Medvedeva her strength has always been her mental toughness, I believe she will fight soon as the tools are sharp enough

I loved Marin, love her short and personally although I’m no expert, I agree with Jonathan and thought she was underscored on her PCS. I feel really bad for Evgenia, poor girl, hopefully she won’t lose sight of her long term goals. Also about what you said about longevity I really hope Alina has longevity, I love her, maybe she’ll need a new coach, Raf maybe? Although I think it’s harder for her to leave Russia I think as she’s already far from her family already in Moscow, can’t imagine if she wasn’t on the other side of the world

dave and jonathan never fails to help me get through the week.

I was just scrawling through youtube (normally i get notified when you guys upload, but my phone's battery run out) and I was like ''Omg Why I haven't watch this video with medvedeva's face, it must be a documentary or something'' then I read the title and said '' FINALLY BEEN WAITING FOR THIS ALL DAY''.

Also about Med stress makes you go back for the old habits and old techniques. I think she should just focus on training this year. Unfortunately I think she has to do Nationals. Highly appreciated your talk about Evgenia cause it’s so on point. PCS was just a crime in France. Especially in the short her having higher points than Marin when she was so disconnected was so triggering.

I came back to college tonight after break and felt exactly the panic about finals that you were mentioning...but that had to take a backseat so I could watch TSL! Thank you so much for all the work you put into these videos, which are hilarious, thoughtful, and consistently one of my favorite parts of the week.

I love Rika’s free program, it’s different. The short program is nice but more generic loveliness. All the triple axels are a risk but could give her a chance against Zagitova. Bradie’s hair was better. Tarah & Danny shouldn’t have gotten a level on the d-spiral and the double axel mistake was rather lightly penalized. The US judge gave their twist the same score as Boikova & Kozlovskii who have a clearly superior twist. Their throw landings were better this week, but they’re small and watered down. Vanessa & Morgan were shaky throughout the short but recovered well in the free. The men’s field isn’t super deep right now and Hanyu’s status is questionable so Nathan may not even need the quad lutz, although it would definitely help and is his most impressive quad. Everyone needs a coach not just a Skype coach.

Love how intense your faces are talking about P/C's rotational lift.

As a yalie currently in New Haven freaking out over finals, I have no idea how Nathan plans to do this lol. It's just not advisable. I'm sure yale will let him leave and come back to finish his degree anytime he wants. There's no way he's somehow going to tackle finals and... the grand prix final (!!!) at the same time. edit: oh lord and he thinks he's going to be premed... god bless his heart. If you think you can take organic chemistry and even pass much less thrive while also being an olympic level athlete... I don't know what to tell ya.

I choked on my tea at the Canada comments 😂

im soooo glad Kevin Aymoz's work is gaining traction! I'd love for him for to be a little more polished so more people could look at his programs skated cleanly. And yes, I think the lovely French showmanship is what makes his skating so fascinating. lol.

I agree that the technique Eteri teaches (or at least allows to develop without correction) becomes increasingly problematic as a skater grows and develops. However, I think that the way that Eteri trains her skaters creates a level of consistency and confidence that allows skaters who are naturally very expressive (Evgenia, Alena Kostornaia, Yulia Lipnitskaia, Anna Shcherbakova, Kamila Valieva) to create amazing performances as long as the technique is working for them. She also seems to make calculations about the technical content based on the artistic ability of the skater. Evgenia kept her conservative SP content (3F3T, 3Lo, 2A) for three seasons even though she was easily doing harder jumps in practice (she could have done a 3Lz3T and 3F easily - the Lutz was pretty consistent and got good GEO and no edge call despite the inside edge). It also seemed conservative to not have her do a 3S3Lo in the long program. She almost always has a great axis on the 3S and she easily could have done the 3Lo off of it (which we saw in practice videos). But, by doing jumps that were relatively easy for her, Evgenia was able to get the GEOs, give an amazing performance, and win. Looking at Eteri's junior ladies, it seems she has changed her approach somewhat since the Olympics didn't work out the way that she expected (and wanted). I think Alena Kostornaia is her most expressive student right now, and she is skating a relatively conservative program to give a great performance that will get the GEOs and PCS, but she's also working to improve her technical content in practice with a plan to increase it in competition as soon as she's ready (having the 2A as the first jump in both programs will make it as comfortable as possible to add the 3A as soon as she's ready). Trusova, by contrast, is a great skater but not as expressive, and I think this is part of why they are putting so many (too many?!) quads in her program so quickly. She's obviously a great jumper and I can see why she is training all of those quads, but I think that if she were as musical as Kostornaia, Eteri would be more concerned about the PCS and might not have her doing so many. However, Shcherbakova is also quite expressive, so I'm surprised that Eteri's pushing her to do the quad Lutz twice her in freeskate... maybe my theory is wrong. Back to Evgenia - I think she's eager to increase the technical content (as she should be), and from watching her practice I do think that she's making some good improvements (the 2A3Lo looked great, the 3S looks higher, and the 3Lz looks like it's slowly moving in the right direction). However, she's dealing with so many changes right now and although she can physically handle an increase in the technical content, she's clearly feeling more stress in competition than she is used to, and I don't think now is the time to make SO MANY changes. She wants to improve her artistry, skating skills, and jumps (as she should) but to try to do all of it at once in both programs and with a new coach and a new choreographer doesn't make sense. I think it's a good idea to push her artistically with an unusual music choice for the short (I like the Orange Colored Sky program when she performs it well, even though there's a lot of room for improvement), but having the 3Lz as the first jump looks very stressful and takes her focus away from the performance. I think it would have been good for to keep her old SP jump content at least for the Grand Prix assignments. Since she is reworking her jump technique right now, I think it would have been wise to give her something she's more comfortable with for the long program (she needs to feel as comfortable as possible to get through seven jumping passes and give a good performance). She could have made one small upgrade, adding a 3S3Lo (I'm a little surprised that they tried to add a 2A3Lo, even though it looks good in practice - her technique on the Salchow has been great for years and she can trust that she will have a good takeoff, axis, and flow to get the 3Lo done). For the next month I think she needs to train her programs with her old technical content, make sure she's hitting all of her spin positions, go to Russian Nationals and skate clean (which I really think she can do!) to get a spot at worlds. I think she should then skip Euros to change her LP and make any technical upgrades that she's ready for. Also, I doubt anyone will agree with me on this, but I think she should be training a 4S (and I think she should have started training it several years ago - she could be landing it in competition by now). I understand why Eteri didn't want to take the risk, but I don't think she can count on achieving her goal of winning the Olympics without at least one quad. I think her 3T often looks quite good as well, and for many skaters it's the easiest quad to learn, and I think it would be wise for her to work on that as well (at least train it on the harness and see how it goes). *side note* I think it's a little depressing to see her finally getting the edge called now when she is working to improve it - and it does look like she's moving in the right direction, despite the set up that I think is making it harder. She could benefit from trying a flat/inside edge and then pull to the outside, as many skaters with good Lutz technique do. It is very hard to maintain the strong outside edge she sets before even reaching back, not to mention the inside - outside pull approach might help her feel the timing of the jump better. She could still do it from a cross to keep the entry feeling somewhat familiar).

I love Marin's short program! I wasn't much of fan before but this program really changed my perception of her. In terms of interpretation and presentation, she is miles ahead of everyone else at this event. It's ridiculous that this program is not getting 9's while Evgenia and Alina got high 9's for those awful Eteri programs.

...Wow, you are 100% correct about her skates! I thought I was the only one that thought her skates weren't working, they look odd with the bedazzled "inserts" or groove slits imprint thingymajigs, they are distracting and do not blend with her outfits. And I was telling my nieces that her skates remind me of these Barbie doll skates my sister used to have for her Barbie Doll, they opened up from the front and then clicked shut.😬

Look at you, TSL - 18,000 views!!! Kudos! Keep up the great work!

Respectfully speaking, I think when Yuna did Les miserable she wasn’t with Brian. It was choreographed by David but she was training in Korea for the last few years of her career.

Re: Marin, the whole pink cutesy thing is really well received in Japan. She is in the top three sponsor wise in Japan after Hanyu and Mao.

I really liked the stationary lift that opened the free dance for the French, but I just feel that their other lifts (the rotational one where she three herself basically in a hug at him for example) don’t have the technical difficulty of other teams in seasons past. I am much more interested in dance because of the creativity with the choreography and lifts more so than pairs where the skills are much the same for everyone. I’d really like to see more lifts in ice dance where athleticism, strength and balance are required from both parties, not this flopping and letting the man do all the work!

Nice recap! Thanks for all of the time and work you both do putting out these videos so quickly after the competitions have finished. :)

I was most exited about EM moving to Canada. Collaboration of Russian and Canadian great skating schools could bring us something exciting, something we haven't seen before. But it does not seem Orser trying to combine two schools, instead he is trying to substitute one with another. Try to make Evgenia lose her muscles memory she was developing since she was 4 yo and get another one. Obviously it's going to take time, even 2 years sound very optimistic. That explains her jumps failures and how heavy she is looking on ice now. But it does not give an answer to another question. How on earth could they give her these two horrible programs?! They are bad on so many levels, music choice, choreography, transitions and composition wise. It was David Wilson's idea to give her "Orange colored skies", what was he thinking? Evgenia obviously got no idea of jazz, I don't blame her, how many 18 yo girls do? She does not feel the music and can not perform to it. Tango could work though, but 70% of the program is not a tango but some noise. Seriously it looks like they tried their best to give her most unfitting programs you could imagine. And for Christ sake, I've heard there is some sort of civilization in Canada. Can you please find Evgenia one proper dress for crying out loud?! I am kind of mad. Still hope things will improve with the time but these programs... What could be an excuse for such a lousy job?

Agree on so many things with both you. You are right saying Medvedeva just doesn’t believe in her programs. Honestly, I’m underwhelmed by the material she is given. Hope Evgenia “keeps on taking her antibiotics”, Jonathan! It might pay out but not this season unfortunately. P/C are magical ice dancers but when I start breaking down their elements... beatable!? Both Spanish, Russian, Canadian teams have way more original programs that I look forward to this season. I hope P/C are challenged soon to realize they have to step out of their comfort zone more. I absolutely love this post Olympic Grand Prix season. Jason was fantastic - so happy for him.

I see a lot of potential with medvedeva. I personally think the programs could be amazing if more focus was put on spins and performance. I think the jumps all need to change. She should be doing Triple Toe Triple Toe in short and long, easier jumps. No Lutz. Lets go full carolina and make this technically irrelevant and work only on performance. I think she has it in her to be the artist. She could still win a short program with just PCS, a rizzano, a triple loop, and a double Axel, get 3rd in long and settle for second.

What happened with Stephan and Brian? I thought they were okay?

Is the next "+5 -5 video" about the Key Points in the Pattern dance? I was very surprised by the Level 1 of P/C.

Just opened the bottle of Chartreuse I bought in Grenoble this weekend and rewatching the recap. My highlight was seeing Jason’s short in person. He was absolutely mesmerizing.

Why are you so worried about getting in trouble? You're saying what us realists are thinking. Keep it real.

Can the solid skating skills foundation built for years help to ease girls’ growing pains and body changes? I mean if so, girls should be patient on practicing the basics, not rushing to difficult jumps. Quick success with high tech scores and be done with it and having a career finished at teens' age. To me this is not building a career, but a robot producing factory.

Kevin Aymoz was such a gem back in juniors. Kudos for John and Sylvia for getting his jumps together. Okay they seem wonky but at least he lands them. This was such a messy area for him. Check out Kevin’s Nemesis/Condolence free and the Nathan Lanier from 15/16 season too.

Jonathan, you were spot on about that weird energy going on in the K&C. Brian and Tracy looked very troubled and you could have cut the bad energy between the three with a knife.

Yay! It’s up!

On Gaboise teams. You are 100% right about the teams doing better if they have their own original ideas. Fear and Gibson picked their own Free Dance theme and it shows. I hope for next season everyone there is on notice about this.

when you're too early and someone hasn't listed the time points yet and you have to watch through the whole 1 hour 45 minutes

Samarin is Kovtun 2.0, tbh. I pray kolyada gets it together.

You said what I was thinking about pairs. The Russian pair has nice qualities and good athleticism and looks a bit less Jr this year. I was surprised by the Level 2 call on Kayne/O'Shea's death spiral. Her head never got to knee level, never mind stay there for a full revolution which is required for it to count as an actual death spiral. They had generous GOE elsewhere, including the twist which didn't clear Danny's head at all in the SP and barely cleared his head in the LP. I agree with Dave that Tarah does her face well. She sells the choreo, maybe a little too much when she kisses Danny in their SP ending pose while he's smiling and not kissing her back lol. They aren't the most talented pair by any stretch of the imagination, but they fight. I agree that Ruest/Wolfe's Turning Page program is better, although it's tough comparing a SP vs LP. This pairs field wasn't deep and they were giving big GOE to anything decent. James/Cipres were off at times, but still great in the LP, and you wouldn't want them to be at their best at an event like this anyway.

I hear so much criticism about Evgenia’s programs but the thing is we’ve never seen them performed adequately. I think they have a lot of potential. Imagine the first time hearing a classic opera and the performer missing every third note and being a nervous wreck. You would not walk away thinking how well it was composed. I hope you guys aren’t annoyed with Evgenia discrediting the story about Eteri telling her to quit. Evgenia is just being smart and minimizing public drama. She has enough to deal with already. By my logic it clearly happened though. Your source is credible and it explains Evgenia ghosting Eteri and announcing her departure through the media. Clearly Eteri said something that infuriated her. I think the strange attitude that you saw in the kiss and cry was the team in shock. The shock at realizing Evgenia’s problems are much more psychological than physical. I think they had a lot of confidence in her at practice and for her to come out and collapse was alarming. I’ve seen some shots of Evgenia’s face prior to the skate and I see fear in her eyes- something I never thought I’d see from her. I think there is something deeply wrong that involves a toxic interaction between hate from her country and her parent’s divorce. I think eteri was in a sense a father figure to Evgenia (strong, dominant, tough love) and without her there is a major void to fill. I like Brian a lot and I’m glad she’s with him but he can’t fill it.

I would definitely say that Janny's position is more like Alexa and Chris (The Knierems) as they went to a different coach and want immediate results, it doesn't work like that and the way the Russian Federation and fans turned on her is very sad, Eteri could have helped minimize the pr backlash against Janny but is choosing not to and actually adding to it. I'd want her to forget this season and just work on what she needs to do and come back next year or the year after and look towards Tuktymesheva as some inspiration for waiting it out and doing what needs to be done after your body changes.

The important thing Evgenia should consider is if she still wants to skate if she probably won't medal/win. Skating is only part of life after all, and we don't know what the circumstances are for retired skaters in Russia. Let alone for her, if she goes down the current narrative. If yes, just stick with Orser's plan all the way and we know eventually she will become a better skater. Going back to old technique is clearly not gonna work for her. I'm interested to know if Flutz can actually be fixed. There were many famous Flutz skaters who tried to fix it, but not much success. I'd be interest to know why they lutz is so hard to fix, while lip seems to get fixed easily. Both Yuna and Yuzuru used to have edge call on flip.

Brian Orser said in several interviews since Evgenia started working with him that the TCC method takes about 18 months before it clicks. They’ve only been a team for a little over five months. I think going into panic mode is premature. What do you think about Evgenia working with a sports psychologist?

Like Eteri that's what matters! Love the opera comment.

Aw poor Simon. He has become a bit more opinionated but he’s not that bad! Be yeah remember last years Euros? Med was getting scores that did not match she was laying down. That layback spin that travelled 4 foot, as shown by Koola King, and she beat Kostner who was magical.

It’s like NBC personally showed up in my living room every Sunday for past six weeks, kicked me in the groin, and repeatedly asked if I’d like an unlimited supply of more of the same for only $59.95. Ice Dance: US sending two teams to Grand Prix finals and not once did they bother to show them compete over six events. Only ice dance on NBC was from today from a team that won’t be in the GP finals due to injury. NBC Announcers: Terry G. is fine. But Tara and Johnny really don’t provide much “insider”info. And once again Tara blew it. 50th Ann of Peggy Fleming Oly gold in Grenoble - both Terry and Johnny comment but Tara...nothing. At least acknowledge Peggy with a “she is a legend” throw away comment and move on. But no. Not her style. Sponsors: is anyone under 62 years old watching NBC? Who will be using Consumer Cellular, AAG reverse mortgages, and Viking cruises complete with shuffle board and 4 pm dinner calls. But..thanks again to Dave and JB for the awesome weekly coverage!!! Your passion and knowledge for figure skating has become a huge part of the sport for fans.

OMG was cackling at the Canada Karma section. Old man cackling, wheezing, needed a nebulizer laughing. So good.

Dave: "You go to the autumn classic, there starts to be some things, you lose to Bradie Tennell", Beyer: "You go to France and You lose to Bradie Tennell AGAIN". Ya'll are so shady ha ha! Leave my Bradie alone! She's doing all the things and doing Zagitova technical content. Her spins are fabulous and she doesn't have that natural star quality just bursting from her but there is some fire in her as was shown at the end of her LP. I do think she needs to change coaches to more of a big name so she can get some help politically internationally which sucks as I think loyalty to those who got you where you are is important but I think it must be done if she's going to go to the next level. Another coach strictly for skating skills and programs etc. Her jumps and spins are fine the way they are even though you both don't like her "chicken wings" in her jump technique HA HA!. Btw Medvedeva definitely needs to say she got Mono and miss the rest of the season!

This came out right as I started baking my bread for the week, the exact perfect thing to watch while my bread is proving, this is what a quality Sunday should be!

With Nathan, I think you have to take into perspective that he may see going to college as more important than skating. I am not sure, but I suspect skating is not a long term lucrative career and for his long term life, going to Yale can be much more beneficial than continuing skating. Now, if USA was more like Japan, where skating is more lucrative, I don't know if Nathan would have gone to yale.

If I was Medevedeva I would have gone to Brian to learn quads knowing that Trusova et al will be in seniors in the not too distant future

Hello Dave and Jonathan. Enjoyed the review and I wanted to comment on Ice dance( my favorite discipline). Madison and Zach were impressive at Skate America. I am a huge fan of this team and the FD surprised me at Skate America. I was there in Everett and their love of the music comes across in person. The choreographed sequence was wonderful to see live. The FD is growing on me and I expect the FD will look different than what we watched in Skate Canada. At the GPF, I am expecting seeing H/D on the same ice as S/B or S/K will really highlight Madison/Zach's skating skills(both partners are strong skaters), their edges and their connection. S/B - Alexandra Stepanova still needs to work on her skating skills and IMO is the weakest ice dancer out of skaters that will be at the GPF. She needs to work on her posture, line, edge quality and extension. Guignard/Fabbri are underrated as a team. I've had the pleasure of seeing them skate live twice(Skate America in 2016 and 2018) and both are very good skaters. They are coached by one of the greatest female ice dancers ever and Barbara Fusar Poli will have them ready to compete. .

I was screaming "Yaass!" while Jason nailed those programs. I hope he only goes up from here. I love his performance and presence on ice. 💕 Rika Kihira looks so nice on ice for me. You can really tell that the choreography for her long program was so polished and it's really working for her. I'm so excited to see both of her short and long performed cleanly side by side and see just how much points she could earn with 2 flawless performances. Eunsoo just looks gorgeous and really promising. She's like the right amount of delicate and strength. Love them both 💜

As far as Eteri "one and done" vs. "longevity", given the jumping level today, I don't think ANY skater is going to enjoy "longevity", or able to sustain a high jumping level over time. (women I mean). Is this even possible? The only skater in the past that I can think of that 'kept her jumps' is Irina S. The list of "one and dones" is a long one, and so be it. All this depends upon whether it is a sport or 'art'.

Russian Nationals will be a blood bath - the most competitive competition of the year. Sasha and Anna with their quads will be competing against Alina and all other seniors. With Zhenya’s current scores, she will not podium. I think they very quickly need to get a new short program - perhaps get one of her exhibitions like experience or beautiful mess. Something more comfortable for her to perform. She’ll need to give everything she has at Nationals or else she will not be sent to Euros or Worlds.

u should do reaction/commentary videos to figure skate performances lol

Im excited for a Mai mihada (probably wrong spelling) and Eteri showdown. I can't tell if eteri's specific success would work in any other country, where skating isn't so strong and people can somewhat lives outside the rink. I feel Mia Mihada vs Eteri can almost be a long term skater vs. short term (I know rika kihira is young but i feel like she can have longevity)

Was waiting for you to comment on Brian's 205 remark!

I, too, am very interested in the ice dance podium going forward.

I love the coach Jonathan! Amazing video you guys did it again!!!! 😘😘😘😘😘

Totally right about Michelle btw.

Dave and Jonathan! You haven’t mentioned P/C’s tango! I love it personally, they just need to sort out the first pattern. They both look hot as hell, too.

You guys are so good and I absolutely love some of your points, and I would love to use you as an example from time to time, but i'm so afraid to expose you to russian community, they are evil Oh how i wish Zhenya could take at least a couple of months and stay in silence and train calmly. Like it would be perfect - not too much, not so little, but there's nationals. And about her skates: I'm pretty sure that edea sponsors her, they even had a banner with her at IDF

Now you made me feel bad Dave, because I love Marin's blades 😁 If something pink must go I choose the dress (and I like that dress too) Sooo looking forward to the interview with Lisa McKinnon!

Evgenia deserves a better choreographer, like Benoit richaud or shae Lynn Bourne. I also miss her dramatic facial expressions. This was a transitional year for her so I don't think we should judge her too harshly. She still finished on the podium for most of her assignments. Her programmes weren't even ready before the Grand Prix. Hopefully she will recover completely from her back injuries and refine her new jumping passes by Russian nationals and worlds. Best of luck to Evgenia in the new year! ❤️ FYI Also, I think we should stop supporting the online bully Koola king. She has blocked all the Medvedeva fans from commenting on her channel in order to continue her online harassment.

I was so happy Marin did decently! I was wondering whether you would be pleased with her progress or still annoyed with her because she popped those jumps, LOL. (Also definitely should have been fifth above Konstantinova.) Good episode :)

Evgenia was one of the most talented skaters I have ever seen . I think she was one of the greats ...

Applause for being so nice and sensitive (Dave)! I was getting sick of the snark but, well, then Ashley retired and now you’re a beacon of loveliness.

Nathan’s choreographer for the long is Sam Chouinard, Dave. Marie France camp choreo!

Thank you for the deep insight into Evgenia's situation. It's well understandable. And I like the way you say about Rika that she needs to land 3A after 3A right in front of Zagitova, ....the same way when Evgenia was against Gracie Gold....ha ha. Rika should be 梨花 by the way.

Dave, Thanksgiving weekend was where I finished those 20 page, English Major papers. There was no fun until Christmas. LOL.

I agree it’s about the long term. Not too many skaters who are successful in a post Olympic system keep up the momentum the next three years, so if you’re going to hit the reset mode and reinvent yourself. This is the time.. However it’s going to be an uphill battle. Not a quick result ... She’s going to Struggle and be surpassed. She may have some dark times but I think if she keeps a right mindset. She will be successful again and I agree a or semi break would have been better.

Thanks for doing this so quickly as always! Must say the kiss and cry with Medvedeva was quite heartbreaking to watch knowing how many people was already online writing hateful comments about her. By the way she said in an interview that she did not expect so much hatred and that she is now completely switching off social media which I think is a very smart decision. I hope they will keep working and try to see the big picture and not all this nonsense. My first comment after seeing Jason's short was: "Well he did not stop taking his antibiotics" :) And oh how angry it makes me to see the scores Sinitsina and Katsalapov are getting. Yes, they are quite technical, but their programs are boring, she isn't exciting at all, it's all political and it infuriates me. Especially here with Piper and Paul who are one of my favourites, who are so unique and have a fantastic free dance (now my second favourite of the season after the French). Also very excited about this Moskvina team, hoping for a good long carrier from them, they are the most interesting "junior" team for sure.