@@phoenixplayz1581 I've seen their preseason game against Lakers, he's now aware of his shortcomings. I think he's been working on that in the summer because he attempted a few drives.
This reminds me of my 2k build for shooting guards. If you make a player with high enough 3pt, ball handle, and finishing, the archetype that shows is an inside-out shot creator.
This is exactly why Franz Wagner has such a high value for Orlando. Of Course he can dribble and create his own shot but additionally he is such a good off-ball player, with his eurostep and great 3pt shot. Making him a perfect fit with other ballhandlers (like banchero).
I would say poole has the potential to fit this type of player as I have seen him attack hard closeouts and punish the defence with his shot making, although he is inconsistent.
The '18 Rockets problem wasn't not being able to put it on the floor. It's that they couldn't finish at the rim AND they didn't have the license to take even the easiest mid range shots. It was a "Layup or 3" strategy. That Chris Paul injury was devastating bc he gave them a reliable mid range option when all those 3's weren't falling, and he could spoon feed guys for easy 3s and layups.
thats what i loved about MPJ during the finals. his shot was not at all going in, yet he would still attack the basket to try and contribute. also his defense was there too.
ngl the overhanging theme that I was thinking about this entire video was just a player who knows how to play basketball. ie, play out of a triple threat with a close out. Basketball is a simple sport and it is crazy to me that at the NBA level, this was undervalued during the 3-point obsession.
Another aspect of this to me is attacking closeouts and then being to able to consistently make extra passes, wether kickouts, dumpoffs are finding the dunker spot
This ties into why I think having a heliocentric offense built to keep the ball almost always in one player's hands is a poor way to try to construct a contending offense. I'm talking James Harden rockets, Trae young, and Luka Doncic to name a few. Not only does the lack of movement allow defenses to create and stay in really good position, I think it totally stifles the potential additions the role players can bring. It's why the "beautiful game" spurs, showtime Lakers, recent warriors, etc were so good. Even the Shaq and Kobe Lakers had an offensive flow despite having two great isolation players. Jordan scored a high percentage of his points just in the flow of the offense. I think Kobe's years as the only great player on the Lakers, followed by the video game numbers guys like Lebron, Westbrook, and Harden were putting up has actually been bad for basketball. Only Lebron and Kobe have been able to win championships doing it and they still had to have either the perfect complement (Pau) or another star (Wade/Irving) to lessen the load. Tl; dr: I think teams that pass and move will always beat teams built around one high usage star
I agree, another great example of "team-centric offense" very recently was the 2023 Heat. On none of the other 29 teams would you have seen Caleb Martin's explosion in the conference finals, that's special.
Definitely agree that heliocentric Offense is generally a poor or at least limiting way to construct an Offense. Having said that Steph Curry is a heliocentric basketball player, with a large chunk of the Offensive Action coming off the ball, but EVERYTHING is orbiting around him. Jokic & Giannis is also a heliocentric basketball players, but Jokic is a GOAT Level Offensive talent it really doesn't matter. Magic Johnson was a heliocentric basketball player. The entire Offense ran through him. Steve Nash & Allen Iverson were both heliocentric Offensive Stars with insane amount of Offensive responsibilities, EVERYTHING ran through them when they were on the court. Kobe Bryant was NOT a heliocentric basketball player. He was an On-Ball/Off-Ball Hybrid player who played a ton without the basketball. His Offensive Load was never that high.
Decisiveness is the key on this. I think Pat Williams could be one of the most deadly players in the league with this skill set but he always hesitates. As a Bulls fan i like Derozan but i really feel he should defer allot of shots to PWILL so he can get in to the mindset needed.
@@sfcraiger I dont agree. Demar has a unique skill set considering he is one of the best slashers in the league along with his ability to get a bucket when its most necessary probably the best since Kobe. The problem is the Bulls isnt it. Tho on that note at the end of the season the Bulls came alive and I think it was in part cause Demar's game is changing to be better at passing.
Being able to effectively put the ball on the floor and attack closeouts is so important for a team's offense. Even the Nuggets rookies whom they have drafted this year have show signs of being able to drive and finish inside the paint. Hunter Tyson is a 6'8 SF/PF who is a sniper from 3 but deceptively fluid for his size. And Julian Strawther is a quick 6'7 SG/SF who is also a sniper from 3 with lightning quick release. Both of them are elite shooters who understands spacing and they have the ability to attack closeouts which is a skillset that Nuggets never really had before in recent NBA drafts.
Basically this i what i got if u want to get meaningful minutes u need to be a decent player who can somewhat create ur own shots, plus be able to hit threes or be a great defender. Most of the players u mentioned are a liability on defense so, i think its safe to say be a great/ above average defender and can hit ur threes u will get playing time.
Very interesting topic, and it's something I have been discussing actually since a couple of decades. The key moment for me was seeing the 2001 and 2002 Spurs offense (that was actually pretty good in the RS) get totally clogged in the PO against the Lakers, during the 4th quarters. In particular once Derek Anderson got injured, that caused the total destruction in the 01 WCF. And that's always why I was calling for Ginobili to be an absolute difference maker in 03, and he even exceded my expectations becoming arguably the GOAT in the role you are describing here. One last thing, you did dirty to Gallo, he absolutely can attack off the catch and make decisions, even if he lost most of his athleticism.
This is why I can see Bird easily dominate today's game. His all around ability even when the guy is right there on him he just has everything in his bag to make something out of nothing. Ppl say he'd struggle on defense today even tho he held his own back then. I say watch this video. Wings back then were much more physical and had more of a mid range, more post game, and played grittier defense especially against a Bird. Today Bird would bait the pass to the splash and slash guy in the corner, force him to either take a contested 3 or drive past a 6'10 player with elite IQ. Majority of players cant finish over Bird consistently and he will find the weakness in your offense. If u put him on a specialist even better, if you put him on a big he'll box out like a mfer and almost never bite on anything. Majority of guys today dont got a great midrange so Bird would give them just enough space to drive but he still almost always has an advantage in size over everyone at his position. Add the fact that Mchale and Parish would probly shoot 3s today too and may even be able to catch lobs
Lol bird wasn't even a good defender back then he'd always get beat by guys who are stronger and faster than him. What he was great at was anticipating passing lanes and being a good team defender. But guess who was also good at doing that? Stephen Curry but nobody thinks he's a good defender.
@LeGoat-23 Jokic and Curry both shit 1 on 1 on defense but in 5v5 are above average considering the team. Probly one of the biggest reasons Steph>Dame cause even tho he gets beat a lot he plays good team defense. Bird was the same in that way but he was guarding 3s and 4s. Against regulars his defense looks elite even 1 on 1 but against another elite player like Dominique it really comes down to a few plays on d that gets Bird that W. That and the fact he's AD height and can play the 2 and 3 perfectly
Yep, although that's more when a player starts moving into the drive to build up momentum while catching. Lakers ran this a ton to get LeBron downhill in the playoffs!
Marjon Beauchamp. Absolutely lights out from three, 6'7 long athletic fast, can take players off the dribble, great in transition and probably the best guard defender on the bucks. If he gets more minutes he might contend for mip.
Idk man off the dribble offense is good and all but 3 and D is still important balance to a team I would recommend every team have at least 2 of these players in they top 7 rotation
@@inspiredbyjayweightlossjou9843 the 3 and D and off the dribble players don't need to handle ball screens or get isolation opportunities, just have a more complete game in their spot up roles
Draft prospects that fit this “archetype” 65%+ Layups 75%+ FT% 35%+ 3pt% 5+ 3pa/100 Will Richard G Florida Malevy Leons F Bradley Hakim Hart W Maryland 2023 Draft Prospects drafted w the thresholds Both Nuggets draft picks HunterTyson, Julian Strawther also Clippers Kobe brown
I'd like to make an argument tho, these are NBA players, of course they have on ball skills(refined to an elite level), its just that their coach and management made them play that way. If they broke the play, they'd probably be punished in case it didn't work out. Only the star player in each team gets to do what they want, rest of the players have to stick to their respective roles. If this was FIBA or Euroleague, we'd see a more team game rather than star driven and rest are role player type of game.
People try to argue that players today aren’t better than players from the past, and they try to form an argument by listing the very best players from their favorite decade. They’re completely missing the point. Where this progression is the most obvious, is when looking at role players and fringe all stars. Those players are a MILLION times better than role players of the past. 30 years ago, Tyrese Maxey would be the best player on his team. Today, he’s not even an all star. Guys like Seth Curry, Tyrese, Eric Gordon, Malik Monk, would have been stars in the past. The skill gap between the stars may not be that noticeable to some people, but the skill gap between the average to slightly above average players, is humongous.
To be honest, too many teams are easy to defend if they have one player with high usage. Take Portland under Dame. This is why centers aren’t totally useless. You still need defensive rebounding and although you theoretically should get it from all 5 positions, you need centers to get offensive rebounds. Portland’s problem was Dame was the entire offense. Under Harden’s Rockets, it wasn’t just the three point shooting. They played Golden State’s offense without the personnel to do so. They didn’t pass and Harden relies on getting fouled instead of making buckets. He travels a lot also. They were one dimensional and had no strategy to beat the Warriors by changing strategy or by the coaching. A team that can play defense as a team, shoots well and passes well with no Star and shares the ball has a better chance at winning. It’s a team game. Isolation plays, not getting into plays right away, nothing but threes and contested shots doesn’t win games or titles. The Blazers assume that taller guards win titles. I disagree to a point. It does help, but without experience or athleticism and being a team first player, height is irrelevant. Now with Dame and Nurk gone, the Blazers have generational talent replacing Dame. They upgraded at center, provided that Ayton grows up and doesn’t get hurt, a perennial problem with Blazer centers. The Blazers got better with the Holiday trade also. They will surprise many teams as Scoot is the real deal. Without team chemistry, it will take a few years before they contend, but that is normal with 95% team upheaval. I think they should trade Grant. If they get an average of 60 points from their guard trio of Sharpe, Simons, and Scoot, and huge games from Grant, Williams and Ayton, they will make the playoffs. This team is offensively talented but I think Scoot and Williams and Ayton will help the defense. The difference between the Blazers and Harden’s 76ers is Portland was patient and Dame was wanted. Harden isn’t wanted by any team. He was overpaid like Dame, but Dame is better and helps a Bucks team in a way Harden doesn’t. Dame is a team player. Harden is not. Harden should retire. The 76ers should cut him if they can’t trade him.
This is why that Celtics team is so good all 5 of their players can put the ball on the floor make the right decision and shoot a higher percentage from 3 and are all, all nba defenders. I think this is were the league is heading
Talk about neemias queta, he was the defensive player of the year and the runner up for the mvp last g league season He signed a 2 way and I think he could be a legit rotation player, better than Luke Kornet in my opinion.
Steph curry has gotta fit into this too clearly. The way his attack game has evolved is wild. 65-70 percent at the rim these later years for him. Insane
Players aren't getting better on offense. The league just makes it easier for players on offense. Double dribbling, carrying, traveling, initiating contact, and moving screens are normal parts of the game now, which makes players who normally wouldn't have enough space to shoot, or who would normally cough up turnovers on the drive, look better than they really are. We saw this past summer's World Cup, as U.S. players routinely failed to stop old school offensive style play, like post ups, that they weren't used to these real offensive skills. And even the international game favors offense excessively. We see with Harden, even a small change in rule enforcement that took away his initiation of contact, dramatically reduced his offensive impact. It took years of abusing defenders and outcry to get that one rule clarification change, but there are so many others, it's still absurdly skewed to favor offenses.
Some of these points I agree with, others not so much. Particularly the Harden point, there's no mention of the vast amount of injuries he sustained, and how that was the true culprit behind his reduced offense. His free throw rates have remained vastly similar over the years, just the level of aggression and amount of pressure he's capable of putting on defenses has plummeted with the loss of his 99th percentile first step. As for rules/play style, that definitely influences offensive juice, but skillsets have very clearly improved. There were high-level plays made in the 80s/90s that won't even show up on a highlight reel today, and #6-7 guys on the bench are making passes/reads that were exclusive to lead guards in the 2000s. It's what happens as the game evolves, people just simply get better, which is why you can't accurately compare across time periods without the "relative to era" approach.
Defo not gonna say none of this is true bc the rules are wayyyy skewed for offense. Doesnt meant you cant also acknowledge everyone is more skilled on average offensively compared to years passed
Trae Young just averaged 8.8 FTA a game last season, his career high was 9.3 in 2020. Harden's free throw rate in 2019: .259 Harden's free throw rate in 2023: .266 Trae's remained virtually the same, Harden's volume has gone down because of a steep decline in athleticism, but the actual rate he's getting to the line relative to how much he's attacking has also remained virtually the same. The data doesn't agree here.
@@hughfarnham890Nah. Duncan Robinson is trash. His minor improvement just made him slightly less trash. His current level of handle is still far worse than the minimum skill level from past decades. Today's rules allow trash one dimensional players to look like they have more dimensions to their game. JJ and Arenas talk about NBA "plumbers" of the far past, yet even many of them were better than these low-skill guys like Robinson
So in other words they bringing back the mid range and driving to the basket with simple 8th grade basketball pump fake and blow by the defenders this is not new
This is nothing new. What your video is talking about is the way basketball used to be played before analytics told everybody that 3-pointers was the key to victory.
Analytics putting emphasis on the 3 point shot is what creates those driving lanes and long closeouts. You won't find teams extending advantages in the way they do now in any other era, spacing was way different.
@@HoopVenue it's called finding the highest percentage shot. By definition. That is the shot that is closest to the basket. This is way basketball has always been taught up until the mid 2000s. What's happening when these guys are pump faking and putting the ball on the ground to get to the basket Is exactly the way it was always taught. To your point: you spent half of the video showing why you can't just shoot three pointers exclusively because it doesn't work. You have to be able to do more. You have to find a way to get a better percentage shot. It is true the game is more open due to NBA rule changes than ever before. This is why people have to close out further away. However, this does not change the fact that it was always meant to be that way. You worked the ball around until you got the better percentage shot. All your video shows is that this is the way basketball is supposed to be played.
No they lost because they thought they were the Warriors. Harden was the Rockets entire problem. Besides not having the Splash Brothers. Houston couldn’t defend the Warriors regardless of the player or type of shot, regardless of whether it was a three or two. Harden was a fraud. Got away with traveling and turned the ball over a lot. His team never drove the ball but thought they could outshoot the Warriors by having a shootout high scoring game. The Rockets coaches never adjusted or changed strategy
@@Luciandl1 Did you watch the first 90% of the video? Players consistently taking terrible shots over and over again with no other skillset. The video just explains having the ability to drive to the basket and pass the ball makes better basketball.
@@Hanharrftwhe literally explained why in today's game you need to have a greater skillset than just being able to hit a 3 because if not, the defense will adjust and you aren't nearly as valuable
HELL NO SPECIALIST WERE TERRIBLE AND THATS A TERRIBLE THING TOU CAN GET A 3 POINTER OUT OF AND 1 3 POINTERS ARE NIT IMPORTANT IF EVERYONE IS SHOOTING THEM
I think Leaky Black, recently signed to a two-way by the Hornets, has this potential. I saw him at UNC. In High School he was a point guard. He was one of UNC's highest IQ players, and rarely turned the ball over. He has some potential as a shooter, and can put the ball on the floor, attack the basket a little bit, and make the right read. He's also an incredible defender, by far his best attribute, so I think he really could become a valuable role player on a championship level team, but he may need to be picked up by someone other than Charlotte, cause they suck. However, him next to Mark Williams could also be nice, so who knows.
@@HoopVenue agreed. It still toon them a while to even play Mark Williams last year, but I still believe that Leaky Black can make an impact in this league and on this team. So I’ll just have to wait and see.
Man I love seeing videos like this. So many channels regurgitate the same content and really don’t feel like they actually watch and understand basketball, it’s all just dumb off-season rumors, predictions and top 10s, videos like this are so much more interesting and engaging.
This was the greatest nba video I’ve seen in a while. Pure basketball breakdown by showing the culminating pieces of the game which shoes the non-star yet highly talented nba players. Just a beautiful vid. Don’t even truly know how to describe it. Thank you
It will always baffle me how some guys can’t put the ball on the floor. Even Klay can’t do it very well; even though I feel this year he’ll actually do it much more. But for years, he wasn’t even comfortable. I just find that amazing. That’s why I always say Devin Booker is Klay, just unleashed offensively. And I’m a Heat fan and completely understood why Duncan got less and less minutes. People who constantly tweeted 4yr/$80 Million in regards to him not getting playing time don’t understand what the coach was seeing. It wasn’t him just going cold.
This is the Shawn Marion + Manu Ginobili combo archetype ! THE MOST UNDERRATED PLAYERS IN NBA HISTORY! Especially Marion…. He is EASILY the most underrated player ever ever ever! Folks have NO IDEA what this guy was!
Ur right the league definitely caught up these guys gotta work on they game it ain’t no reason a player if they’re the 4 or 5th option shouldn’t be at least able to attack a close out
Explains why guys like Wesley Matthews, Reggie Bullock, Wayne Ellington etc sucked for the Lakers, while Malik Monk, KCP, Austin Reaves, Alex Caruso etc have been successful because they don't die at the 3 point line!
how is it an archetype if it’s a skill that every nba player needs 🤨(something most kids learn on their school team). yeah some players are in the situation more, but if the player can’t attack a close out or lace the three they are almost useless in the league
