This Doctor Mario player pulled off the most insane combo…

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In this episode of Frame Data, we’ll be taking a look at the Round 2 Pools set between Franz and Setchi at GENESIS 5. In pools matches, and especially Top 64 qualifiers, nerves can easily kick in when players approach last stock situations or may be close to clinching the victory. Learning to control those nerves to stay consistent in a set is an important tool to keep players on top of their mental game, and it allows for players to shine with some unique conversions. Franz does exactly this in his set with an edge cancel aerial interrupt combo versus Setchi. As we break down this play, we’re going to zoom in on Franz and see how he approaches this matchup with his uncommon character selection.
The goal of the Frame Data series is to pick apart interactions which may get lost or go unnoticed in the big picture of a tournament. We're putting Super Smash Bros. Melee under a microscope to dissect the small interactions between players and show off what can make this game so sick.
WATCH NEXT:
►SoCal Melee Power Rankings: • SoCal Melee Power Rank...
►How a Single Pixel Ruined BBB's Edgeguard Versus Zain: • How a Single Pixel Rui...
►How Zain Won GENESIS 7: • How did Zain win GENES...
►Best of Mew2King - The Robot: • Best of Mew2King - The...
►Melee and the Pursuit for Perfection: • Melee and the Pursuit ...
REFERENCES:
►Schmoo and Gentlefox's Melee Knockback Calculator:
ikneedata.com/calculator
►[Hax$] The Most Misunderstood Mechanic in SSBM: • The Most Misunderstood...
►[Kadano] Tumble and jump buffering: • Tumble and jump buffering
►Dash Attack Ledge Grab (Lemon Grab): / mechanics_of_dash_atta...
►[AndrewAJT] How to get More Damage from Throws: • How to get More Damage...
►[Flerbert_] How to get More Damage from Throws: / how_to_get_more_damage...
►[Third Chair] Doctor Mario Melee Chaingrab Guide: • Doctor Mario Melee Cha...
►[Schmoo] Doctor Mario Frame Data Megathread: smashboards.com/threads/doc-a...
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Join the Community Discord! We would love to have you! / discord
Links and Zeldas:
► / turndownforwalt
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► / turndownforwalt
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Опубликовано:

13 май 2020

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Комментарии : 143

@turndownforwalt 3 года назад

Small error in the voiceover on this video! The 7-frame pummel window mentioned at 11:17 is in reference to a Marth's pummel, not Doc's. Dr. Mario's pummel hits on Frame 17 -- which is a longer time to mash out before the attack hits, but he still has a very large combo window to guarantee the throw follow-up. Sorry about that!

@pippincovington1348 4 года назад

It's so rare to see high level Doc analysis, thank you for this breakdown from the bottom of my Doc main heart ❤️

@turndownforwalt 4 года назад

I'm glad you enjoyed! This was a really fun one to write!

@YourBoiSlifer 4 года назад

Doc hype~

@chewieman4956 3 года назад

You don’t exist

@DylanzOw 3 года назад

Just play Mario

@illford6921 3 года назад

@@DylanzOw Dr Mario is actually better than Mario. It's easier to kill with him and he's cooler

@grab2win982 4 года назад

I never knew that mash data was dependent on stock count. That shit's insane! Sick video as always Walt.

@xxSqirrelz 4 года назад

@turndownforwalt 4 года назад

I didn't either! I learned a lot writing this video and I think that was the craziest part to me. Glad you enjoyed!

@emmbeesea 4 года назад

Walt and Hax$ need to collab on an episode. Doc's stock shall continue rising!

@turndownforwalt 4 года назад

I would love that! Someone get in touch with him!

@NotaSkeleton 4 года назад

This is by far the best Melee related content on YT right now. Love these videos. I had NO idea that stock count played into grab game at all. That's nuts.

@turndownforwalt 4 года назад

I really appreciate that, thank you! Hopefully we can continue to grow together!

@Descro382 4 года назад

Doc's rubbery ass back air freaks me out lol

@defaultoandores626 4 года назад

Theres a massive Doc and Franz bias on this channel and I'm here for it LETS GOOOO FRANZ WOOO

@turndownforwalt 4 года назад

I mean How can you not like Doc?

@Queggletank 4 года назад

This is like this one bystander in anime fights explaining how it is possible, for the hero to come out on top (minus the shouting).

@Fritzyboo 4 года назад

As a spectator of competitive melee, vids like these really provide a lense into the intricacies of this game that would otherwise go right over my head. You do such a phenomenal job, Walt. Cheers, and stay safe!

@turndownforwalt 4 года назад

Thank you so much Michael, I'm glad they're entertaining! Hope you're safe as well!

@GinjouArmy 3 года назад

3:20 tell me this isn't the most graceful thing you have ever laid eyes upon. Meele is freaking beautiful.

@AP-gb3pq 4 года назад

Franz makes me wanna main Doc and I've mained one character for seven years lmao

@turndownforwalt 4 года назад

DOC MAINS RISE UP

@gabrieljreed 4 года назад

@@turndownforwalt Doc ❤️

@bobbing3778 4 года назад

Dr. Mario is strong but hard and easily overshadowed by the top tiers.

@illford6921 3 года назад

@@bobbing3778 nah, I feel like Dr Mario is a lot more interesting just because you never see him. You always see the top tiers, they aren't special, there are special players but they'd be special with any character, now Dr. Mario is both good and bad in the weirdest way and it's just really interesting to watch him

@heyitsmort7744 4 года назад

“Hey hax ur handsome” made my day 😭🥰

@turndownforwalt 4 года назад

The most handsome

@franz445 4 года назад

Your editing never ceases to amaze me.

@turndownforwalt 4 года назад

Thank you!

@thirdchair9670 4 года назад

What a great video, the editing and breakdown is top notch!

@turndownforwalt 4 года назад

Thank you so much! Your guides were very useful in writing this piece!

@Deen12864 3 года назад

Just gotta say I love this content, i love watching people breakdown games that I love and this is just soo well put together

@leannec4603 4 года назад

Love having this to watch during these crazy times! Thanks turndown!

@MatBat__ 3 года назад

Thank you for the analysis, such a great play that I wouldnt even be able to recognize and apreciate if not for you. I love your frame data series, keep them comming dude! (and I dont even play melee)

@turndownforwalt 3 года назад

Thank you, I really appreciate that!

@TigerStripedStealth 4 года назад

Your channel not being the most subbed melee channel is criminal at the very least. Keep it up, your production value, attention to detail, and unique arsenal of topics make you easily my favorite smash youtuber. We need people like you

@turndownforwalt 4 года назад

I really appreciate that, thank you so much! I think the channel's been doing super well recently, but I hope we can continue to see great growth!

@Lagoa_real 4 года назад

Great vid as always Walt. Keep up the good work!

@turndownforwalt 4 года назад

Appreciate it!

@captainfalcon535 4 месяца назад

That resecond jump after the grab downthrow is majestic

@jordangidley1606 4 года назад

My boy Walt does his research and cites his work! Great video man, keep it up!

@turndownforwalt 4 года назад

Appreciate it homie, glad you enjoyed!

@tiaraguy7705 4 года назад

I love the reference you dropped in the link tab at the top

@Runningwritingreading 4 года назад

I LOVE this series. As for an idea; I'd like to see you focus more on decision-making from BOTH players during a match. Franz was awesome, but I feel rather bad for Setchi. Even just an extra minute to show a cool or smart string by the losing player would be a nice balance.

@turndownforwalt 4 года назад

Thank you! I mentioned a few things for Setchi which made sense in the context of this video - the potential Dash Attack Ledge Grab (which was probably an execution error) the up-air frame data, etc. - but I do try to keep things pretty balanced between players, even though the end focus is naturally going to be on the player performing the combo. I'll keep more of an eye out for it next time. Thanks for the comment!

@Runningwritingreading 4 года назад

@@turndownforwalt you rock dude, I totally agree you are definitely very balanced. Can't wait for the next episode

@Dylan-kp1cz 4 года назад

Don't feel bad for setchi he's a wanker

@Corvux_ 4 года назад

Been watching for a while and I have to admit your content has been getting better and better. Normally I don't comment on videos but I really think you're gonna be big some day. Keep up the good stuff

@turndownforwalt 4 года назад

I appreciate that, hopefully we continue to grow together! I'd love to hear more from you in future videos as well, thanks so much for the comment!

@Rael0505 4 года назад

Holy crap this is some incredible analysis. So much game knowledge.

@Halo4LifelikeHat 4 года назад

Thank you for all the work you do

@turndownforwalt 4 года назад

My pleasure! Thank you for watching and commenting!

@austintacious94 4 года назад

The dash attack after hitting uair by setchi was definitely an attempted instant dash uair. He could have linked it with lots of leniency if he pivot dashed back into it

@turndownforwalt 4 года назад

Yeah, Setchi also confirmed on Twitter that it was an execution error. Still wanted to point out the potential for a DALG though!

@pedlar6839 4 года назад

i've been playing for 10 years and i never knew that mash data stuff, actually blew my mind. always more to learn about this game

@turndownforwalt 4 года назад

I didn't either, it was really surprising! Just goes to show how sick Melee really is!

@ericwitney5086 4 года назад

Amazing stuff. I learned a lot. Id love to see more obscure character reviews. Maybe a vid on Goomi's samus?

@turndownforwalt 4 года назад

Great suggestion! I'll see if I can find anything worth a video!

@koth_harvest_final 4 года назад

incredible vid as always!!

@turndownforwalt 4 года назад

Thank you!

@miserygriefing 4 года назад

This series is so sick man

@turndownforwalt 4 года назад

Glad you like it!

@joush0vosman 4 года назад

Tbh I'm not at a level where I can't make use of any of this but I enjoyed the video. Also props that you name dropped so many other RU-vid channels rather than trying to re-cover the topic yourself.

@turndownforwalt 4 года назад

I think the video would be way too long if I didn't abridge some sections like that! I'm planning a few separate videos that may go over some of those summarized topics a bit more, but I'm glad you enjoyed either way!

@angelo9024 4 года назад

Another great video Walt

@turndownforwalt 4 года назад

Glad you enjoyed it! Definitely more to come soon!

@TheMonarchOfTetris 4 года назад

Awesome video

@turndownforwalt 4 года назад

Glad you enjoyed it

@DoomJoy666 4 года назад

All the accidental things that happen in this game... like I wonder if he knew while he was playin, that the option he chose and inputted came out so frame perfectly. Like was he JUST on time to input all his actions and clutched it, or did he know the tight windows when he saw them? I love this game

@toontownveteran 4 года назад

amazing video

@turndownforwalt 4 года назад

Thanks for the comment!

@TheEvilmonkey25 4 года назад

Franz was so happy lmao

@taylorbee4010 4 года назад

When he hits the four jump on slowmo and enters the matrix

@Taosenthusiast 4 года назад

FYA the mentioned 'Reddit User Flerbert' is actually Magus's Reddit account. Posting is largely confined to Fire Emblem subs these days but that's him.

@turndownforwalt 4 года назад

I thought so! Thanks for the confirmation!

@Killopotamus 4 года назад

For the neutral tech scenario at 8:00 , if Falcon neutral techs, he will slide off before the animation would allow him to JC or dash grab. (Because of the momentum from the hit and no tech roll to delay or “fight” the momentum) Now what this means for Franz is a Falcon who can double jump on top of his Up B lag. Dair, fair, upair. Knee would be safest, if Franz has the frames to shield. My intuition says Falcon should stomp because of asdi down and you can react to anything from there. I think Falcon can DJ drift>aerial to Doc in that time.

@Killopotamus 4 года назад

I forgot to mention the neutral tech cancels hitstun with the platform slide off which is why he can double jump and change his velocity. Whoops.

@turndownforwalt 4 года назад

Great insight! Thanks for the comment!

@TwentyGX Год назад

11:37 the SM64 would disagree on this statement 😂

@treehann 3 года назад

wtf I had no idea about the stock + grab thing

@thewaterbear 4 года назад

Big Walt with the Big Brain

@turndownforwalt 4 года назад

B R A I N P O W E R

@UFORelaxo 4 года назад

Ok. So I played Melee at at EVO 2016. I don’t know the mechanics of Melee like I did Smash 4. I’m a Doc main in Melee can someone explain to me how one of the stocks I took was a weird combo. I believe it was nair to down smash and the down smash put them to the other side of me so I was able to forward smash them right after. This has been something that’s been on my head for years now and this was at 11% I believe. Is this a normal thing for Melee?

@turndownforwalt 4 года назад

Sounds like you might’ve hit with the inside hitboxes (either one or both) of down-smash, which could’ve let you connect the f-smash after? Just a guess though!

@lukeconleyluke 4 года назад

This show is so damn good

@turndownforwalt 4 года назад

I'm glad you like it!

@thatmexicankid8798 4 года назад

Lets go franz

@GeriatricSmash 3 месяца назад

Gooooo Doc

@AwsomeLeaf 4 года назад

I'm a simple man. I see high level doc, I smash that like button.

@zigrotoday 3 года назад

dr mario scares me

@nicholasthompson1063 4 года назад

Ok, that's it. I'm ringing the bell.

@turndownforwalt 4 года назад

Much appreciated! Looking forward to hearing from you again soon!

@sebin5216 3 года назад

Why do I feel like Falcon is always in these controversial frame data situations? (i.e. S2J vs Abate, SilentSpectre vs Armada, etc.)

@ilikeplantsandvideogames8625 4 года назад

What video from Hax$? I can't seem to find it.

@clutchedbyanangel 4 года назад

Link in description

@turndownforwalt 4 года назад

It's linked in the cards on the top right of the video and the description!

@kennethzheng3735 4 года назад

sorry for correcting, this is an incredible breakdown and video, but the math is wrong in the neutral tech vs roll to right tech; it should be 16. Setchi would have had 14 more frames, and Franz would have started his fall special when Setchi would only have had 14 left, meaning he would have had 16 more frames to react had he done a neutral tech. Not a big deal, it's an understandable error with such a big video and so many 14s, just wanted to make sure you knew. Thanks for the sick breakdown, you do too much for this community :)

@turndownforwalt 4 года назад

As an engineer I’m thoroughly embarrassed - good catch! I must’ve meant a 14 frame *difference* between the neutral tech and tech roll, but that’s totally my bad! Thanks for the comment!

@kennethzheng3735 4 года назад

@@turndownforwalt yeah, I kinda guessed, and it's completely understandable, still a great video, and I really did love every second of this breakdown :)

@littlewordman 4 года назад

1:58 youre talking about MattDotZeb but show Matt Dahlgren who do you mean

@clutchedbyanangel 4 года назад

Matt Deezie, not MattDotZeb lol, confusing, I know

@turndownforwalt 4 года назад

Matt "Deezie" Dahlgren - sorry about that, I should've specified!

@GoodieM8 4 года назад

2:40 hey hax ur handsome

@Sickitung 4 года назад

woah never heard about 10:58 before

@turndownforwalt 4 года назад

It's pretty insane!

@thesupercrook 4 года назад

what is the music in the beginning?

@turndownforwalt 4 года назад

All the music is listed in the description!

@thesupercrook 4 года назад

thank you

@cynidox 4 года назад

ANY DOCKERS?!

@turndownforwalt 4 года назад

THE PLAN IS SIMPLE

@applesauce0g408 4 года назад

U gotta get a Luigi clip sometime

@turndownforwalt 4 года назад

I'll see what I can do!

@colin3108 4 года назад

13:12 "hes in middle school, Hes in my fantasies and hes in middle school!" Its kind of haunting no?

@NaturalOmen 4 года назад

"He's in my fantasy" is referring to the smash.gg fantasy team that you can create, Franz was a very cheap person to have on your fantasy team but he paid in dividends with this performance.

@joejones 4 года назад

In today’s context. Yes

@turndownforwalt 4 года назад

Just wanted to echo the reply to this comment and say that the commentary was in reference to a fantasy bracket, similar to Fantasy Football where you can create a team and earn points based on your player’s performance.

@mortmortington240 2 года назад

doc is my 3rd favorite character in melee, hot take

@leaffinite2001 4 года назад

Haz is handsome bro

@turndownforwalt 4 года назад

you right

@MrIntoxicatedMonkey 4 года назад

These videos are the fucking shit

@turndownforwalt 4 года назад

Thank you!

@TheSharkasmCrew Год назад

weight dependent throw? Hold on.. I thought all throws were weight dependent? Is that not the case?

@beracollections1 4 года назад

isn't that franz guy a csgo a CSGO player?

@cstick2664 4 года назад

Why does it feel like these analyses are always on matches on Yoshi’s Story?

@turndownforwalt 4 года назад

All the cool stuff happens on Yoshi's! But actually, I think there's just been a handful of good plays I was meaning to cover, that just happened to be on Yoshi's Story. Some of the next Frame Data episodes I have planned should have a bit more stage variety!