Why Does Dr. Mario Suck When Regular Mario Is Amazing? 

we can all agree dr marios down air goes hard af

It's almost like being a blue collar worker leaves you in better general shape than being a white collar worker.

Dr. Mario has an epic yeet back throw. Makes all the downsides worth it.

It's interesting how Doc is equal or better than Mario in most things but he's bad because the three things Mario does better are the most important things to be better at.

Dr. Mario isn’t as athletic because he spent his time getting a phd

Doc is better the worse you are at the game. I can't string together more than 2-3 hit combos in a real match to save my life so those big meaty hits from doc do me wonders.

Fun Fact: all of Doc’s moves and movement properties have a stupid amount of decimal places (ledge getup does something like 7.87 damage). This is because the smash 4 devs made the basis for doc by taking Mario and applying +22 attack and -65 speed equipment (you guys remember equipment?)

What we need is a Dr. Ganondorf

FUN LARRY FACT: Larry’s favourite vegetables are spinach and broccoli

This really shows just how important movement is in Ultimate. A character that is almost identical is objectively worse because they are slower.

As someone who has a “sick Dr.Mario” the thing about him is that when you get in a start comboining your opponent he feels like better mario but when you start getting comboed he feel worse than Mac out of the bottom three characters he’s the best by leagues and bounds

Doctor Mario becomes a better character on stage if you utilize more spot dodges and cape. People usually can’t react to the turn around and doc can usually get a kill off of one single cape at mid or high percents which I find crazy.

Mario being able to do two bairs and two uairs in a short hop is also a huge deal

You all think dr mario is bad, let me list you plenty of things that make him standout -Super armor down b (grounded) -His down b has crazy kill power, which leads to to easy kills whether edge guarding or not, it's also a multi hit so it drags your opponent in -His up b has a strong hitbox (frame 1?) -No spike fair but a STRONG one - *Down air* - His pills are way more bouncy, which easily pressures opponents, and try and make them less aggressive -The goated back trow -his down b makes up for good stalling and recovery potential, cuz this lets you stall more in the air, and it lets plan a bit more what you are gonna do, sadly it doesn't really let you get more height -his side b has trip chance, *You know what that means* And that's all i have to say as a dr mario main

I've been maining Doc lately and he is so much fun to play. All of his aerials are insanely good and punchy and his yeet back-throw is unstoppable. Winning with him gets you a lot of street cred too.

Additionally, most of his moves hit so hard that there's no chance of follow-up. His poor mobility just compounds this into meaning he basically has no advantage state. He just lands a hit, resets neutral, and fishes for kills when percent is high. I do like playing Doc - more than Mario, even. It just leaves him feeling exceptionally honest, and massively reliant on fundies and reads. If he had just a bit more of a combo game, and a less pathetic Up-b distance, I think he'd be mid-tier. I don't mind his mobility so much, as I'm primarily an Incineroar main.. but the knockback on just about every move in his arsenal means few true follow-ups, and his recovery is such dog water, that he's rewarded less for winning neutral and punished harder for losing it than the majority of the cast.

love this video! it feels like comparing the two is silly bc their differences are so obvious, but this detailed breakdown is still really interesting and informational

However, Mario is a more viable character but, dr Mario is much more hype character to watch once you get really good with him, I personally don't think he's a bad character if you ignore his terrible recovery plus, for a "slow character" some of his attacks are actually kinda fast

They gutted his mobility. Mario has good mobility with a high jump and great airspeed along with many good combo tools to compliment it. Doc has some of the slowest physics & his moveset (mainly Up-Air) didn't fully compliment it. His shorter traveling Up-B is just the cherry ontop.

Some other things people forget about doc are that his back air actually lingers longer than regular Mario’s making it better edge guarding and combing. His up smash also lasts longer so the front hit box actually hits people in front of him unlike regular Mario’s. Also his dash attack sends people up making it way better for combos than regular Mario. He’s got some really good stuff honestly

I always thought about doc as "ganondorf in marios body"

While I think it's cool to have Dr. Mario to be the stronger but slower version of Mario, I think the devs have pushed this idea too far and Dr. Mario is held back by being solely defined by this trope, and as a result he feels incomplete and awkward to play. For the next game they should round out his strengths and weaknesses, and make his moveset a bit more cohesive. Imo an air speed buff and giving him a real aerial combo starter would be great. Giving him a faster and bigger dash attack like Meta Knight's would also help.

I love you Larry , you are so thorough with a video like this. Thank you for your HARD WORK and doing a good job sir

If Doc is so bad? Why everytime that i encounter a regular Mario in Elite Smash i think: Ok, i just have to care about his grab combos. And when i encounter a DOC, i know that he'll crush me, dunking my characters more than PRIME Shaq'. Dr.Mario players are very scary.

It's really just because he can't be a better character than Mario because its MARIO, but he also can't be the same, so all that's left is to be a worse character. That being said it's still outrageous that he's that much worse than his counterpart.

I dig the clean shave. Is it weird character month over here on the Larry channel? Man I am here for it.

Doc recovery will never be the worst. That airdodge alone is crazy. Mac could never

Dr. Mario lost a lot of mobility and flexibility while in med school for 8 years. Also lost a lot of motivation

This man has single handedly made me pick Doc right back up for no reason lmao

Mario=Capt. Falcon, Dr. Mario=Ganondorf

Tweek talks but Larry analyzes

Really liking the new outro song on these videos, so chill

One cool thing with doc's tornado is that it doesn't cancel if you reach the ground. So it can't miss the last hit if you do it too low like mario's. You can even do it fully grounded and it's really useful is some matchups.

I find it really interesting how what are basically just number differences can change a character’s viability so much (Ik they have some different attacks but it’s barley any)

Dr. Mario is just diet Mario but with all of Mario's weaknesses + his own. Oddly enough, I still prefer the doc. I guess I've always just been drawn towards characters that are considered low tier. They tend to be way more fun and rewarding to win with.

Some thing people dont mention often is there is a slightly built in auto turn around when you are using up B near ledge and your opponent has crossed you up. Say youre on FD, trying to recover from low magnet hands style, but your opponent is standing on tip of ledge, youre facing left to magnet, your opponent is slightly above and to the right of you, so it will often make you up b to the right, outward, which does not snap ledge, so you either overshoot or need to drift back, but doc has no drift. this happens for all characters with diagonal up b recoveries, shoto, marth and lucina, marios, captain falcon and ganon. Its very deadly and noticeable when the character has a bad recovery and drift. doc def needs a longer cape that can stall, back in melee i used to land cape turnarounds on fox and falcos all day, and now the timing has to be so precise. same with using it on say chrom or ike, you miss time it and youre dead at 0, because you have to be so close that it scoops you in while cape moves your body forward a bit. i tried in training mode and it was a 80-90% success rate but in practice you just lose too many early stocks to risk it.

It sucks that with other clone characters (Marth/Lucina, Simon/Richter, Roy/Chrom) their physics weren’t changed much if at all If doc had the same physics as Mario, he’d be so much better, no recovery changes necessary

give him down b recovery back after he's hit and make up b go just a bit further. He recovers real bad, Up b also gets slightly nerfed cause its more punishable, but I think that's defo worth it

Shaved Larry = Dr. Mario Mustache Larry = Mario

I want his old up-b turnaround back. I swear it was way easier in Smash 4

They could buff the frame data on his nonrecovery attacks by a few frames having him hit slightly faster. Though this might require a power adjustment

If doc had a good recovery he'd be what pika is to pichu as doc would be to Mario. Doc has shaving out of shield. Frame data. Kill confirms. Cyclone armor. Cape. And pill is funky to go against sometimes. He just needs a better recovery.

Another very important difference you missed is that doc’s back throw is infinitely more gangster 💯

Dr. Mario basically has 2 things going for him: Pills and better kill power. Otherwise, Mario is better at everything else. More speed, get string combos together and have them last much longer, better down special, better recovery and jump height, etc. Both characters are fairly easy to use, with Doc being better for bad players and beginners while Mario is better for mid/high level players and people who know the basics and fundamentals of the game. At least Doc had his time to shine in Melee.

7:56 The later hits of Ganondorf’s down B are stronger than the initial hit.

Dr. Mario was one of my first characters I played in smash and now he's my second Main. You definitely have to work way harder to use dr. Mario than Mario and fundamentals are still very key to mastering both of them. If I could choose what to buff on Doctor Mario besides movement it would definitely be make his down be Invincible at the beginning and at the end of the move or just give it super armor all the way through it would make his recovery a lot better.

A character with better kill confirms is typically going to have some major flaws that balances them out. Sometimes they’re slower, have bad frame data, horrible air combat/mobility, etc. However I think strategy is what makes the difference at the end of the day. One character can have more advantages than the other but it doesn’t mean that character is going to win the match just because. The player has to have the knowledge and skills to win and not play to the advantages of the opponent. That’s what I always notice at least when I play in a bad match up. It always feels like I have to work extra hard not to give into my normal strategy and find another solution that doesn’t allow my opponent to utilize their characters natural born abilities

If you DI Mario’s ladder combos down and out opposite of the way mario is looking you won’t die unless you’re on Yoshi’s. Same thing with the dair DI mixup. As a Mario main I do with Ladders killed on other stages but they’re still amazing for damage so you can end up killing with a read. So for those of you dying to ladders just down and out my friends. Give those Mashio’s some payback. If you doubt me not only try it out but I’ve gotten max height with a ladder combo against Greninja on battlefield and it kill screened with Gren at 90% after the up b and it didn’t kill because of good DI.

once i noticed doc has one more active frame on his up smash and now i always get pissed when i cant hit people in front of me as regular mario

Recovery and ladder combos are the only reason. Doctor Mario's normals, throws, specials and smash attacks are *amazing*. He has one of the most cursed up smashes in the entire game. That angle is so dirty. Kill confirms from down tilt, down throw, pill, up air (Although getting a kill combo from up air is really hard). Tornado can also kill at sub 50 off the side in distance for him to still make it back. Fastest OOS Up B in the game as well, and it kills!

I would give his up b Roy angles so he could make it back a little more horizontally

Doc being so much worse than Mario in Smash 4 and Ultimate is because the devs adjusted Dr. Mario's stats using custom equipment. Dr. Mario's stats are coded as the same as Mario's, but are given multipliers in game. Generally, Dr. Mario is Mario with +15 Attack and -50 Speed.

I think Mario's punish game is just better, because even though doc has more confirms and set ups, bacon and the competitive players have to get reads and win 4-5 neutral interactions before killing. With Mario you win 2-3 and you can just combo them off the top of get a F-air spike, and even if it doesn't kill, congrats your opponent is at 90-100%

Honestly I would make DR. Mario's pills stronger, having an out of shape sluggish doctor isn't that bad of an idea and as someone already made the comparison of white collar worker and blue collar worker; excellent comparison, I wish I thought of it first. That have the DR. Mario specials hit harder but his normal attacks not hit as hard making him rely more on his specials, also make his pill move faster by 25%. I love echo fighters for this reason.

Winning with dr Mario we all love and respect you you’ve stuck around the community since melee winning with Mario you’ve been broke since brawl no one will be hyped if you win honestly Mario is a lot less toxic then Wii Us version cuz the enhanced air dodging n speed of ultimate but he has some of the easiest bread n butter combos n spikes in the game I don’t hate him I just think of all the Mario mascots which r debatablely some of the most unique n fun characters in the series why main just Mario theirs no heart no soul

I just started the video, is it gonna be the whole speeeed and recovery thing. He had less time to work out getting that doctorate

Doc is my favorite character to use in a casual session… because that’s the only time I do well with him.

Docs biggest issue imo is punish game. His fair is theoretically more useful than mario since it can kill from more parts of stage, but doc is never comboing into fair. Mario does constantly. If doc could actually get mario level combos hed be good. Regardless of recovery

Doc also has slightly more landing lag on their shared aerials

Dr. Mario is probably the biggest example of mobility being way more important than raw damage in Smash

4:25 that’s cus those pills be fucking you up

When Dr. Mario tsps side b it is his cape still, but when Dr. Mario holds side b he puts his cape on and gets to glide towards the stage, similar to Steve but not as good

It's cause of slow movement one of if not the worst recovery in the game and stubby range. If he double jumps wrong in neutral that could lead him to lose a stock and because his air drift and ground speed is so bad it's easy to juggle him and just run away from him. The only thing he has going for him is damage and some combo potential but what good are those things if you can never hit your opponent. The only reason a dr mario player beats anyone is just due to match up inexperience and the other player being better

As a Mario main and Dr Mario player, facing Captain Falcon as Mario feels the same as facing Ganon with Dr Mario

I could forgive the slower mobility if Doc had a decent combo game and/or recovery. But really, he is just a worse Mario that hits slightly harder.

I’d make tornado kill at 0 and buff up B maybe a little slightly

Thing about dr mario he DIDNT always have the down tilt up b confirm as down tilt used to be very slow

Maybe unpopular, but I've always liked Doc way more than Mario, especially in Ultimate. Yes, he has less mobility, but I can't play Mario even close to the level that my Doc is. I started getting good with Doc in Smash 4 because of Luigi and his cyclone similarities. Also, many people are quick to say, "Tornado is bad as recovery option." That's not always the case." It can be used to stall and assist in a low recovery off stage. It can also be used to punish characters who can recover high. For example, Snake likes to cipher-up high and I can't count how many times I've punished that since no one expects Doc to reach up high. Plus, pills are better for stage control. I find them much easier to sneak in on an opponent than fireballs. Lastly, up-B out-of-shield is so satisfying. The threat of it at high percents makes people play more cautiously, which Doc can capitalize on. Ultimately, I still think Mario's mobility outshines Doc, but I prefer Doc way more. He requires a lot of creativity to work, but is more fun to use. Snake and Mega Man are my top 2 characters, but Doc is in third place for me.

Reflector, early kill confirms, consistent 30%+ combos, frame 3 up-B that kills OOS, insane aerial frame data, combos+kill confirms off of projectiles, one of the best back-airs in the game and a great wave bounce for extra sauce on top. He has the second worst recovery in the game but I believe doc has sufficient tools to win a major.

for doc I'd buff his up air to do ladders

I understand what they were going for, with Dr. Mario being the slower but stronger variant of Mario, but it makes no sense. Just give him the same mobility as Mario, he's the same person. It would help him out massively, and he'd still be different because his moves come out slower, send at different angles, and hit harder.

Dr. Mario is the heavy weight version of Mario. Slow but strong but none of the weight and still has the moveset that is suppose to combo when most hits knock the opponent out of the combo.

so basically good across all smash games = speed (air or ground or both) if you can reach the target faster you can keep up the combo pressure. High knockback characters with poor recovery never make it in this games, ever.

I just like doc’s spike. I like playing him because he feels heavier than Mario. But I usually just play both cuz why not

This vid made me realize I should probs drop doc and choose someone else that’s in mid tier or something.

Doc would be so much better if they gave pills less endlag, game him a few better damaging combos and just made it so Doc up b went as far as Mario’s but ONLY had the big hitbox.

I sometimes troll Mario players by beating them with Dr. Mario. His recovery sucks but he’s a pretty heavy hitter

I would give you, Dr. Mario, a down b that summons viruses to attack á la luma

I think people need to stop letting mario go to PS2. He is not ok on that stage, the extra platform height compared to SBF makes all the difference for living or dying

snake dash attack for speed

As some one that doesn't play Smash, and only watches some videos every so often. I'm honestly surprised that there is a difference like this by design Makes sense to create every character with different values based on their body shape or clothes they wear. But on ther other hand you're just leaving things open to being exploited by certain characters, making the gap between skill and atrificial strength seem similar, when really it's by design Not sure what I think about that, on the one hand I'd love to see 2 equally balanced chars played by 2 individuals and from there their own skill will define the outcome. Or watch a match where one char has faster air movement so you will never be able to land the combo in the right attack area simply because of a speed difference, a reflection of real life imo Tough one, but as long as everyone is having fun then we're happy

You forgot the forbidden dr mario tech. You can pill somebody to hit them offstage near the ledge and downair them for a basically guaranteed kill.

The Burden of Knowledge is heavy

Lmao someone do a mario counter on many times he said Mario 💀

Hey larry! I see you doing alot of things to show off docs kill confirms! Me: *JAB UP B AT 120 PERCENT BEING TRUE*

Don’t sleep on Doc….

Dr. Mario player here I agree with everything and thank you for actually giving a in-depth analysis rather than just saying Doc is just trash I wish his recovery was slightly better 😢

Lurrless Larry is Clurrsed

I think the different coloured pills should have different elemental properties assigned to them: blue freezes, yellow electrocutes and red burns. The next coloured pill to be thrown could be displayed next to Doc's icon so the player and opponent can strategise around it.

i wish they would buff his movement stats a lil, i dont think he needs to be THAT much slower

Dr. Mario has good moves but his garbage mobility and speed means that he's beaten to the punch every time. Add an awful recovery to that and his disadvantage sucks, makes for a perfect bottom 5 character. To an extent, he can compensate for his lack of range and speed with his frame data and if he's shielding a lot it can be annoying. That's why I don't think he's the worst. But you never have to play his game, so it's just delaying the inevitable lol

Dr. Mario will forever be more fun than Mario due to the fact that instead of relying on combo strings that every other Mario player does, you have to have true game sense and reading abilities to pull shit off, and when you do it feels amazing.

Man there’s so much missing about Doc in this video as a certified Autistic Doctistic, but main points I think you missed were 1: Up Air doesn’t send directly up, but instead varies similar to Ganon’s Up air which contributes to Doc killing offstage and hurts his combo game as he can’t follow up Up-Air at higher percents 2: Docs tech chases can be busted if he can land them, having tornado being a long lasting armored option that can cover get up attack and normal get up, along side up B, back air, dash attack, and pill, but because he’s so slow it’s more situational to be able to get those tech chases. 3: You bring up that Docs cape doesn’t stall, but that’s actually the worst part for Doc. Recovering with Tornado needs you to angle your stick diagonally downward to make the most out of it, so you have what little momentum you can get without going nowhere, and you need to mash as much as possible to actually gain height and not lose any. It’s suicide if you accidentally cape instead of tornado and it’s possible with smash’s buffer system you could just cape your way down to hell. 4: Pill is amazing as a combo tool, but another important part of it is that it bounces instead of trailing the ground which serves to punish doc as smaller, faster characters like Pickachu or joker in his running animation can low profile consistently. Sorry if this comes off as condescending but I fucking love this character and I know them inside and out, and this video is great at keeping it simple without bogging people down with detail, thank you fellow Larry

Still no one talks about Doc's jab upb

Dr Mario isn’t a character. He’s a message. From the developers. Showing us how powerful they are with their game and how powerless we truly are, how we are in the end we truly are playing THEIR game. Playing by THEIR rules. Our likes and dislikes mean nothing to them

Just make his pills act like Brawl Falco Lasers. #ShortHopDoublePill

Even though Dr. Mario sucks because he's slow, that doesn't stop me from maining hin.

Seeing shaved Larry is still uncanny

Love dat fox print

Why do you shave 😢. The whole community is in agreement that you look so good and iconic with your beard.