Rather than lucky, she is just dumb. She knows what she did to Vic is criminal, and when her own hypocrisy got exposed, she laid low and got away with it. Here though, she is fully proud and stands behind her misdeeds, and just keeps exposing herself.
Everybody gets caught in the end… when Capone couldn’t be caught on larger charges they got him for tax evasion. Well, this is Marchie’s version of tax evasion.
Loss of power, presumably. They can't insert woke ideology. Also, the fact Anime now has to use AI instead, show everyone how bad they were at their jobs
@@keungwan5901 fansubs have been doing the best job in that regard since the beginning of time. The fact that AI can do their job better is because those localizer quality is worse than a bull manure.
Like @keungwan5901 said, it's the balance of power. Once the AI is used for every translation, these people will lose the little power they had over the industry and the viewers.
not cultural appropriators, thats taking someone elses culture and making their own, theyre cultural imperialists, supplanting other cultures with theirs because it is "superior", know the difference
“Doesnt speak japanese” gets hired as a translator meanwhile more passionate people who deserved the job more without any high ego in their head gets rejected, what kind of parrarel world do we live in
Not siding with her, but she is a voice actor so people give her script and she voice acting with whatever "improv" she feels like shitting that day. Basically she just got hired to voice, not to translate.
@@ha-itsme I agree. She is just a VA feminist, trying to save the world by ad-libbing feminism into her voice lines where her friends tell her how funny and great she is in mocking the men.
By the way: for people who are unaware of Marchi, "magic death threats" has always been a part of her playbook, ever since the kickvic days. She'll bring up death threats, but never post them, never show them, and uses "trust me, bro" logic whenever she's asked about them. It's an attention grab she uses to make herself look like a victim on Twitter. I'm fairly certain Jamie uses blockchain, so how are all her detractors sending death threats?
So according to them, we have to be able to speak fluent Japanese for our criticisms to hold any validity, yet... turns out some of the people making these changes don't actually speak Japanese themselves. You seriously couldn't make this shit up.
And some of the criticisms are coming from native Japanese speakers, who have English as a second language. Even funnier is that those ESL people know English better than the localizers do.
Yeah that what confused me, I’m like why are you telling people to learn another language that would take years to master when you yourself don’t know it.
If you want to understand the woke mindset, you need to watch Bill Burr's 'No Reason to Hit a Woman' skit. Pay particular attention to the segment where he talks about how women argue and you get it. And yes, this applies to their soyboy simps too. Manchildren that have been feminized their whole lives.
What's fascinating to you? Do you have any clue how a dub script is produced? Not a single dub script in existence is written based on Japanese or required the person knowing Japanese.
People can learn to speak Japanese, they will earlier of they werent deceived by existence of lolcowlizers which is actually worse than complete absence of localizing at all
I learned Japanese, Im a fully fledged N3, I can read these things natively, took me years and a lot of kanji practice... can I complain now? because its a f*k embarrassment for interpreters and translators everywhere, imagine if medical or engineering translators did these sort of things, people would die, like, actually die because of it, and these people feel its justified because they just dont care about these things the way the fans do? disgusting.
Someone replied to Marchi saying the line changes the context of Lucoa's whole character. Lucoa is supposed to be a sun god dragon who's out of touch with modern society, because back in the time of the Aztecs, when Lucoa was worshipped as a sun god, Aztec society was open to nudity. Lucoa barely understands why she has to cover up and doesn't get why seducing a kid is wrong, she wouldn't comprehend terms like "the patriarchy"
Thats the joke and i think its funny. An ancient dragon knowing and caring about the patriarchy doesnt make sense but its a comedy anime and the comedy aspect is good.
@hmmphd5840 I'd buy that if it was actually set up and paid off with a punchline, like Elma getting way too invested in her office lady job even though by all accounts that work should be beneath her, or like in Devil's a Part-Timer where literal Satan is striving to manage the best damn WcDonald's in town, losing sight of his goals of returning home to continue his conquests of war. In Lucoa's case, the localization comes out of nowhere and is never mentioned again. It'd be as jarring as if she mentioned being mad at K-pop stans literally once ever, no precedent, no follow-up.
What's amazing about Jamie Marchi is that after writing that Dragon Maid line, at an anime convention panel she had the nerve to say that "I'm a funny person." That script change was only funny to someone inside her political bubble.
If they didn't brag about how they messed with a lot of the projects, they got most of us, wouldn't know exactly who to blame but their love for attention makes them expose how they cannot do their job properly
If the source material has rape / incest / swearing / bigotry / violence / murder / etc then I still want to read it, because it is a part of it. Even if the author themselves have terrible personality traits, as even horrible people can write good or make a point. What I don't want is for it to be censored because someone thinks it is not appropriate or doesn't fit a 'tone' for whatever audience. The audience themselves should decide this, not the person translating or localizing it. Lastly, there are things that just don't translate well. In-jokes or things specifically cultural that you would need to have lived there to understand. For those I either want a best effort basis, the closest approximation, or at worst I want a footnote telling me to read X to understand it, even if that breaks immersion, but that will allow me to understand the context. What I don't want is your own in-jokes, memes, politics, or other BS that you add to try and fill the gap. How hard is it to understand that when I am consuming foreign media, of any kind, that I specifically imported go out of my way to find as it is not local, that I want the original meanings and context and not someone else's rewrites. It could be any language and any culture, and I would feel exactly the same. This is why the subs / translations / and fan communities have been popular for years, and for far far more than just Japanese language content, but many many others. What value does their rewrites give me? Even if the author is a bigot or worse, I still want to know that. A localizer takes that choice away from me and instead gives me what they think I should want. Who wanted their opinions. Why would I want their rewrites over the original? Answer that.
You say that in jest, but honestly it seems to be the future we are headed towards. Not just in anime localizations either, but across the board.@@misanthropicservitorofmars2116
God, can you imagine if the sorts of people who currently work for Funimation ever played BG3? We'd have to send them an awful lot of pearls to clutch.
Americans have this absolute hatred for source material. Look at how they butchered things like Lord of the Rings, or Little Mermaid, or The Witcher, or any other media produced in America that is sourced from someone else's work.
If these won’t cause Japanese studio to not trust EN Localizers due to how unprofessional and unskilled these localizer companies are, I don’t know what will
This don't reach them because they are not reading twitter in other language. Only if it reach to a group of japanese influencers it can blow up in their domestic social media platforms.
Then i have yo tell you, nothing will. Have you forgotten about vic situation? It was 100X worst than this. Considering what it did to dragon ball and it went to news in japan as well, i dont think this interaction will do anything. Because vic situation did nothing Now i hope i am proven wrong But jp absolutely dont care about any of this.
She literally just admitted she doesn't speak Japanese, a skill required for her job, meaning she admitted she's unfit to do it. Screenshot it and send it to her employers.
Understanding Japanese isn't localizer's job, they're middlemen. They get the job usually from being a VA (many such cases) and because of nepotism or whatever they'll advance to localizer or even ADR script director for sub or dub in other projects where they don't have a VA role but they'll get their friends in those VA roles. Reminder that large portion of this industry is in Texas (probably Austin if I had to guess).
@@PaulieMcCoy I've studied translation, understanding Japanese is very much a localizer's job. Difference between translator and localizer is that Localizer has to make the text more relatable to the target audience. For example if I was localizing a text from english and it was using some well known cartoon character's name as a nickname for a character, I would likely use our version of winnie the pooh as an 'equivalent' for that name since that's probably the most known cartoon character in my country,
@@The_Yukki From what i understand localization is like this: Tokyo --> Paris Makoto --> Manolo Satou --> John Bento --> Sandwich Gundam --> robot Tsundere --> bitch
@@PaulieMcCoy All that's left of the industry is Funimation at this point, and that is run by Sabat and he basically just gives work to his friends and ass kissers.
The model of “patriarchy” doesn’t preclude the involvement of women, to the extent that their actions advance men’s interests. As in, if women “slut shame” other women, and somehow that’s good for men, then it can be part of the patriarchy even if it’s being done by women. Now what’s funny with that specific situation is that slut shaming is very much in the interest of women moreso than men, at least if we’re talking about slut shaming unmarried women, since it allows them to have a good excuse to reduce competition from beautiful women. I say “at least if we’re talking about unmarried women” because for married women, men have an interest in slut shaming those because they presumably don’t want their wife to signal availability to other men, but even there other women still would rather not have to compete with as or more beautiful women for access to or retention of mates. TL;DR : in principle nothing wrong with the idea of women doing something that benefits patriarchy, but hilariously backward in the specific situation of women gossiping about too revealing clothing.
@@nathanjora7627reminds me of that instance in (Florida?) where two young women were reported to the police for wearing a skimpy swimsuit, for sure by a jealous married woman. The whole thing was captured on youtube, pretty funny. The not-so-funny part was that one of them later suffered a near fatal accident while doing acrobatics :/
The funny thing is, her critics didn't even need to be able to speak and understand JP to fully grasp that the "pesky patriarchy" line was all BS. All we needed to do is simply just watch the show, considering Luqoa's character has constantly being portrayed as a shameless airhead, and she also forgot or ignored the fact that she can easily shapeshift just like the other dragons in the series.
So does Jamie know that women also often disapprove of what other women are wearing. It's not just men who will disapprove of what someone is wearing in public. Jamie you're telling me you have never been disapproving of someone's looks? I'm calling bs. We all do it in some form. Like you'll see that one man or woman wearing practically nothing and think to yourself "WTF are they wearing?"
@higgsbonbon Yep it breaks the entire jokes punchline about how Tohru remarks that she should just shapeshift into a different body instead which is obviously funny because we know they can shapeshift. But as you said Lucoa is oblivious as hell which is why the relationship between her and the kid work. If she wasn't as oblivious she would pick up more on how the kid feels at times.
oh don't worry, if women disapprove of what other women are wearing, that's just "internalized misogyny" and thus also just part of the patriarchy. how convenient, huh?
I think she's the type of person to see a woman dressed conservatively and attack her for having internalized misogyny rather than slam somebody for wearing too little.
I remember watching something like that happen and the answer was that that woman was also a victim that was brainwashed by the patriarchy and stuff like that so... It always end up in the same men "are bad" thing.
I know that will sound absurd,but Brazil had a similar problem...with South Park of all things(the case didn't get big,since 98% of people in Brazil never watched dub in the first place). Apparently since cartman voice actress holds so much power,she DELIBERATELY changed lines in the panderverse special. People noticed that Cartman didn't say diverse woman but instead non-conforming women,and in the:"put a chick in it and make her lame/gay" sequences it was something along the lines of put a woman and make her empowered. Without even going on how much the others changed. Outside of the US the "lolcowlizers" don't usually ever get called out,because people here don't usually care about cartoons and anime dubs being shit,if they'll just watch it with subs anyway.
If this isn't the definition of "digging your own grave" I don't know what it is Why are they so desperate to convince us that robots would do a better job?
@@JohnDoe-pt7ru Well, Crunchyroll Germany is also making problems, they don't even go to conventions anymore, as they don't want to talk with us fans anymore (better said, their employees have been forbidden to talk with us fans by the higher ups from Sony USA/Crunchyroll USA). Gladly the rest of our anime labels is run by otaku-weebs, who already die in their heart when they have to change something for legal reasons, they would never change it for political reasons.
To this day I had no idea "localizers" existed. I thought these translations were done by translators - people who understand both languages perfectly + are superbly aware of the context of what they are translating.
yes, translators do come out and talk about this every now and then. the seven seas translators say their translations were butchered by seven seas after they had submitted it (and that was confirmed by seven seas, actually, they hired shitty YA novelists to edit the translations), for instance.
Yup, that's basically it. A good localizer would just voice the line that is there, maybe minimally touch it up if the English is a little rusty after being translated
Before people accuse you of milking this topic, they really gotta understand: If localizers would just shut up and take the L, instead of quadrupling down on their corruption, people like Rev would be talking about other things. It's their hubris and egos that are driving them to unintentionally provide more content for people to cover and mock them with.
@@bottlethrower1544 It's so damaging that it made Budweiser forget how to sell beer, and who it was selling to. Who would have seen that coming 10 years ago?
Sad thing is that their circle is so tight knit and nepotistic that it doesn't even matter. Until Japanese developers and artists actually learn about this and take action, she will keep doing this while calling herself a victim.
By her and her fellow localizer's logic I'M qualified to do her 'job' and I just translate certain Japanese words, phrases, and attacks from video games and anime as a freaking HOBBY using google translate and other free online translation aid...and the base amount of knowledge I have from doing this for over 5 years...as a HOBBY. She is really shooting herself in the foot and moving up the leg by admitting that her and others like her don't know any Japanese.
@@GinraiPrime666 That's gonna take a freaking miracle to happen, but I do somewhat agree that if those two big names were taken away from the dubbers and localizers at Funimation then yeah...they would start to fold real hard to get that shit back. The two BIGGEST names in anime that even normies know about with little thought needed when asked "What is anime?" being swept away from them would be a big blow indeed.
That gaslighting, manipulative, liar will never learn. Jamie has an impressive ability to select which reality she experiences; one where she's always morally superior and justified in treating everyone else badly. She and so many others don't deserve the good things they have.
One Piece gave them a straight up Buster Call. They were profitable before then. They spent *a lot* of the money dubbing toys and card games to secure those rights... And then the very next year, interest in that whole genre got sunk. _Absolutely murdered them!_ So no, it wasn't exactly the unfaithful translation by itself. Little bit of a shame, because they grabbed stuff *no one else would* and those translations may likely be the only ones ever done. Not much sense subbing/dubbing/airing these shows if the card games are no longer produced, right? The rights will probably be in limbo for years!
Toei forced 4Kids to take OP in a bundle of other stuff they actually WANTED. 4Kids KNEW they wouldn't be able to do OP well considering the content and how 4Kids did things. Buuut they had no choice in the matter if they wanted to save money on the other stuff. Big oof.
You gotta love that their deflection into "learn Japanese" isn't even something that applies to localizers so it's really just a form of poll tax for accurate anime/manga to enjoy.
Additionally, Jamie's adaptation changes Tohru's intent. In the original, Tohru dissaproves of Lucoa's body as she tells her to try changing her body next time. Jamie changed it to an affirmation tone as she now approves of Lucoa's body and says that people will beg her to show skin again.
True, the pesky patriarch line didn't just mess Luqoa's character, they pretty much just made Tooru the kind of person who agrees with whatever Luqoa was rambling about, while JP Tooru actually sounds reasonable by reminding Luqoa that she can just shapeshifts herself.
I thought it was feminist jargon on how the patriarchy objectifies women while simultaneously slut-shames them, because apparently men just want to manipulate women into doing whatever we want and not giving them freedom with their bodies, etc. Which reinforces the point that she was obviously changing the dialog wanting to insert some ideological talking points that just sound too unnatural for an anime that was created by Japanese people and not blue haired western women.
The real issue is that a lot of these Twitter people never leave their echo chambers so they actually have no clue that the things they equate to reality are actually just scitzobabble.
I will say, you don’t need to be fluent in Japanese to edit stuff to make it more readable, but you do absolutely need to understand what the original line was, what it meant, and how to interpret it. People like her are not suited to be editors.
I remember when that Dragon Maid clip first came out, and Marchi was bragging about it to everyone who would listen. "I messed up the script on purpose and got away with it teehee." Couldn't wait for karma to hit. Shame it took so long.
"Localizers know the language better then you!" "You can't be mad at their work, most localizers don't know Japanese!" Jamie Marchi just proved these people shouldn't even have their jobs and the saddest part is; nothing will be done about it. Again; Imagine you're going in for surgery and you discover your surgeon has never done any surgery. Any form of entertainment is the only industry will the people in charge can spit on the consumer and face zero consequences.
Yep. It got normalized to just shit on the people who make their jobs even possible because they demonized their audience of thinking the wrong things.
You know what, to add some positivity out there, I want to thank every translator, from official to fan, who take pride in their job and give us what we want; reasonable accuracy. You guys are the ones who deserve a raise, primarily from pay of the localisers that should lose their jobs.
I respect good hearted localisers too, changing stuff to make it actually make sense is what a translation team should do. A lot of japanese cannot be directly translated as words may not exist or concepts may not either. Therefore, in order to not confuse readers/watchers then localisation is a good thing. I get hating on certain localisers for just adding shit and changing the meaning for no reason, but theyre needed for a story to get put across properly. I watch dub, always have unless it is god awful or the sub is the oonly thi g out and i want to watch it, and ive never had any issues in the probably 500+ anime ive watched. Localisation can really add to anime, so can direct translation. You need a mix for it to be really great Take this from part 2 of Jojo: Joseph says in the sub "Thank you, Caesar-chan" (or something along those lines) and the dub changed it to "Thank you, Caeserino" which is an absolutely amazing localisation and makes the scene more comedic than it originally was
@@kuyagab4444 Corruptions can affect them as well. IIRC there was this group who translated that Digimon Tamers drama, put huge disclaimers on their subtitles and were very vocal about hating the creator. Not to mention that in Chinese fan translation scene at least, it's (or at least was at some time) pretty common to force memes and shits into the translation, and nobody can say anything about it because they "did it for free".
something I realized, the whole 'everything NEEDS to be political' crowd tried real hard to take over anime and manga and couldn't because the industry was across the globe and had an entirely different culture as it's basis, so they just took over the method with which it was translated and Localized and totally expected no one to get upset, but they ended up pissing off even people who are normally in their camp because doing this is a deliberate abuse of power and lead to them abusing said power in other ways like all the dumb jokes, and it's hard to argue for something that's blatant corruption and intentional deception unless you have NO integrity what so ever.
Yup. Fans from America, Argentina, Iraq, Italy, Russia... They're trying to do to anime, manga, and LN what they've done to comics, movies, to some extent games... those who "everything NEEDS to be political" If they simply did their job (localizer is a sinecure, given that many don't know Japanese - they're just liberal art people or VAs who didn't get a roll in that particular production or the series isn't being dubbed) they could have cruised on... but nope, couldn't STFU and enjoy the easy life.
@@PaulieMcCoy It seems to be just the US causing all the issues, from voice actors to localisers, to the "fans" constantly complaining about fan service, lolis and literally anything that isn't PG. They won't be happy until anime is the same as US animated content, when the reason it is popular in the west in the first place is because of its differences.
@@noire1001 its because unironically, america is the cultural center of the world, the only thing we export now is culture, its just because of english being a really easy language to translate into, and hollywood pushing everyone else down. also the reason why anime, and manga, is popular in the west is not because its different, well, relatively, it is, but, its not shit, see anime knows what its crowd likes, remember when companies in the west used "pander" to their audience, turns out people like things they like, and they dont like what they dont like, even more so when its forced on them. the fact that i have to say that should give you an idea of out of touch marketing teams with their supposed consumers.
@@nuhrii3449you also export a lot of weapons, from what I recall. And also i think cheese, although you also import a ton of that despite seemingly only eating the fucking horrible plastic cheese singles, but i digress.
Putting Lucoa's mistranslation aside and "admitting" their message is a reflection of her being pissed off at being told to cover up, Tohru's line is COMPLETELY different. In the manga/sub she kinda agrees with her covering up and doubles down with it telling her to nerf the boobs. In the dub she "jokes" about how all those perverted men will ask her to go back to showing her stuff. Disgusting agenda.
Learning this had me shift from annoyed to FURIOUS! Missing out on an ACTUALLY FUNNY JOKE then what we got in the dub! In the past, we dub watchers have gotten some scenes that the localizers made funnier, many Pokemon examples come to mind, but those times have become few and far between...
It is indeed insulting and demeaning. Not only for the 'fans', but most importantly for the medium itself. It's a prove that they don't really care about the medium. What they care is inserting their ideological agenda and that's it nothing else.
Yep. And the reality is that in Japanese culture showing your cleavage is slutty and trashy regardless of size and is seen as edgy when it's done in fashion subcultures. They can wear a skirt so short that they flash their panties at the slightest breeze and that's only mildly risque and pretty normal, but the same girl will where a shirt with a high neckline and never sleeveless. It's just a different way of looking at sex signaling and aesthetic norms than the West where short skirts are more risque than a sleeveless v neck. She projects so heavily it's insane, as she clearly localizes without doing ANY research into the cultural contexts behind the original work.
This is why piracy is a need in this industry. Fan translations are better than those done by "professionals". After the Seven Seas controversy with Classroom of the Elite I tried to hold some hope for this industry, but it's only going worse and worse.
Speaking of Seven Seas, they're the ones who publish Dragon Maid's manga as well. From what I've heard, it took them several volumes to finally realize that Jigokumeguri, the company Kobayashi works for, shouldn't be localized into something like "Hell Tours" or whatever. Jigokumeguri is the family name of a protagonist of another manga (Ojojojo) by the same mangaka and the company is set up at the end of that series _by that protagonist._
@@BloodrealmX Yes. And if you know that from the beginning, both stories become MUCH more interesting, because it ties two seemingly unrelated stories together. This really got completely lost in the translation, but also shows how shitty a job they do. The translator(s) had obviously not bothered to make themselves familiar with the author's other works.
Lucoa wasn't even upset that people were telling her to cover up, she just noted that people were constantly telling her that she looks inappropriate and so she tried covering up. They can't even get the context right. Lucoa doesn't care about people looking at her or being inappropriate in general, she just wanted to appease those around her. For gods sake she's constantly getting naked around Shota and her old outfit before the story began was borderline a birthday suit, she does not care, she's just trying to fit in with society.
This. And in Japan, it does not matter how big or small you boobs are, showing your chest at all is seen as very lewd. You can show as much leg as you want, and a skirt so short people just might glimpse your underwear in a light breeze, and that's not seen as inappropriate or slutty... but a v-neck, crop top or sleeveless shirt? That's seen as extremely risque. But Marchi of course didn't care to do even the smallest bit of research into cultural context, despite being the one accusing all her critics of only getting their info about Japan from an anime. Her level of self awareness is so lacking that I'm not sure she counts as truly sentient.
I miss the days of Ted Woolsey and "Woolseyisms." As bad as they could be at least they weren't injecting politics. Just dated cultural references and bad humor.
Jappan didnt They dont give a crap about any of this They only used AI because it was cheaper Thats it There is nothing else involve in this situation, other than karma doing his thing
No wonder Chinese manga and animation have grown so much, though i think korean ones have grown way more, japan is getting behind on anime and manga with each year
@@Solizeus not going to undermine chinese and korean manga and anime but Japan has been killing it for years. I don't really hear about Chinese anime much. Korean anime I hear about them a little. Manwa is killing for sure. Don't get me wrong Chinese animators are beasts, some boruto episode was done by Chinese creators and its absolutely slapping but you don't really hear about them much.
I started my journey of becoming fluent in Japanese a decade ago, largely in part thanks to such poor localizations. But somehow I am the knuckle dragging idiot for understanding Japanese and preferring Japanese dubs over English subs or dubs.
@@sparking023 its cheaper straight from the source as well, and second hand its almost always in better condition too. Pokemon games, manga, everything I import from Japan is cheap and practically brand new quality even though its second hand.
Final Fantasy 7 was translated by one guy with I think a several week deadline. It had mistakes "This guy are sick", understandable with the short deadline but these localizers not even knowing Japanese is sad. They're essentially given a sinecure because a work isn't being dubbed and their main shtick is being a VA but they're friends with other industry people and so they get an easy job / sinecure. Which they use to insert their own petty political or ideological views into works because they don't care / respect the author of the OG work nor the fans.
this also proves alot of the people in the indstury are all connectinos, nepotism, friends, d suckers.. not people that were passionate.. it all makes sense
And that nepotism network is terrible because its hinders for decades any industry that it manages to consume. AI and other shaking thing need at least so that entitled assholes crumble so on their place something good can arrive
It's been pretty much an open secret, the whole thing with the conspiracy against Vic and the tactics used against him... I'm not sure how many 'favors' Marchi can use to get out of this.
Here is my stance on localization. Yes, because of language differences there aren’t direct translations all the time. But, as a localizer your job is to give as close a translation as possible without changing the context.
and generally speaking, i'd prefer the untranslated word or even phrase if it cannot be properly translated. i am not 80, i can acknowledged things exist outside of my immediate understanding and i can learn from context.
Localizer also responsible to "translate" the joke because sometimes a joke in one country isn't same in other country. My fav is SpongeBob mermaid man path of evil joke, it's changed to "devil path" since devil is associated with evil. That one is where localizer do their job
A Localizer is suppose to adapt something that a different culture would find difficult to grasp the concept because of cultural differences and present it in a way that would make sense to a local population. An example of this would be something like proverbs. The Japanese proverb of "The water flows" wouldn't make much sense in context to most English speakers. But if you instead put "Water under the bridge." then the context of what they're saying makes sense. That's the job of a localizer. It's definitely not to insert political or pop culture references into it when there weren't any.
I was in a spanish team of translators and they picked me for being the corrector because I am from Spain and they were from Chile and Mexico. The spanish differs a lot in the coloquial part so they wanted a totally different kind of spanish to dodge bad localizations. We also had insiders in Japan to help us with the expresions that need to be localizated because they are not in spanish and we wanted to not listen to any english localization/translation because they were too transformative back them. The Crunchyroll era killed a lot of fansubs and it was for the worst... they work fast because they have the script and even them they transform the subtittles too... learning japanese is a multiyear experience so be brave ^^.
I miss when the localizers actually tried to make a fitting or better line that still retain the intent instead of going with very woke and dated topics(especially ones that are leagues outside the intended tone of the scene) that'll aged worst than spoiled milk cooking on a stove top.
As someone who studied japanese for 4 years. These localizers infuriate me. The biggest reason is because they make the argument that somehow translators make the changes that people dont like. Which is FALSE. When you translate something you literally just break the sentence down into its most basic and objective parts, then rearrange it into the format of the language you want and see if it makes sense. If it doesnt, then you either are translating incorrectly, it cannot be translated or you need to change the grammar or noun tense in order to make it make sense. Thats it. Its localizers whom make the big changes that have no objective grounding.
I honestly feel bad for the ones that are doing their jobs as intended. I can see where they might be important, like comedy anime where some jokes may fall flat due to difference in culture, but localizers Jamie is making everyone look bad. The point is to adjust a line while keeping the original context and not doing whatever they feel like.
While I'm not defending this dipstick, localization is a very important thing. Some context is lost to the people that would be the target audience in this(and I've studied/been speaking japanese for over 13 years now mind you). However, an example of good localization would make the joke hit the same way/have the same spirit if that makes sense. A line or two, here and there, isn't going to bother anybody. It's things like this that make people complain about dub and sub.
@@geniusbob sure. Jokes are some things that cant always be translated over to other languages. But at the same time, with how internet culture works. Localization just becomes less and less important. Most people who buy niche japanese media or buy media that is from japan that has heavy japanese culture refrenceses, usually already understand the jokes and stuff, which is why they seek it out.
@@theredknight9314 Localization will always be the most important of translating anything. I have to do it when doing fan stuff for people, but at the very least I attach a little "literally" thing, lest you end up like those terrible old tv-nihon subs. Most of the target audience here does not get japanese culture. They get little bits and assume they do, but they don't. Localization exists for your audience, and the worst part here isn't localization. Most of the people here need that, even if they wont admit it. It's who the intended audience happens to be, and this woman's audience surely isn't anybody here. There's smacking THE single most important part of the process and then there's smacking somebody for being blind to their audience. If you cut out localization dubbing becomes pointless in general, as "anybody that cares can just read subs" which is not too far off, since most of the people making a stink here actually do. Though, being fair, we both know that subs aren't really all that accurate these days either, and are what a "proper" localization should be with no liberties.
@@geniusbob i kinda agree, but also dont. I think we keep everything primarily the same, translate it to english, fix anything that does make linguistic sense and be done. Whats the point of the localization of a foreign product? Thats like taking the Bollywood out of Bollywood films. And if people dont understand it then all that means is that they should just delve even deeper into their hobby and passion to learn more.
That's why you hire trusted professional translators and editors instead of the Twitter monkeys whose expertise is limited by a bunch of fandubs at best.
these all are translators with years of experience , this is what the industry is made up off, actual genuine translators tend to be unable to find work because this is what the industry is run by
@happyphiri4237 Vic Mignoga was the voice actor for Edward Elric, that one bald shinigami from bleach, Qrow Brawnwen, and, around the times the allegations started, Broly the Dragon Ball Super Broly movie. After the movie came out the voice actor for Bulma made r**e allegations towards Vic and certain coworkers of hers joined in one of them being Jamie who was the biggest contributor of false allegations
@@happyphiri4237 basically yeah. He lost his court case about defamation but the courts also ruled that Monica Rial couldn't charge him with SA since that was part of her counter suit. It sucks but that's the way it goes.
6:50 So.. by that logic theese two lines are EXACTLY the same? "Well I dissaprove the holocaust, it was very ineeficient method they used, they should have just stacked people like jenga tower inside those chambers, to save up on gas" and "Well i dissaprove of holocaust, since it was a brutal violation of human rights and morals". Tottaly the same line and logic, since, you know, they both dissaprove of it. Now i get it. Those people on twitter are a different breed alltogether.
What i like about subtitles is when they translate a line, they have Translator's Notes (short-handed to "T/N:") on screen to explain the context behind certain references and idioms, which I appreciate a lot. Teaches me a lot without watering down the actual line.
The whole "learn Japanese" response is peak comedy. Basically says make my job inconsequential by cutting the middle man out, me, and you doing a better and more honest translation.
16:32 Translation: I have no arguments against people who are right so I’m locking this and running away like a coward. And you’re right, if all the actual fans learned the language they’d be out of a job, which I’d be all for.
She's telling me their script adapters don't know Japanese while in the same breath mocking customers to learn Japanese themselves when they're not satisfied with localizers' work. Make it make sense.
If she hadn't attacked fans, she would come off like some developers that got that told fans to priate their game 'cause their publisher ripped them off anyway
Nailed it with the hobby thing... No one messes with our hobbies. Our path to escape our everyday dreary or sucky lives. I wonder if she voices Malty in Shield Hero? The we can also call her B in real life.
Naw, that's Faye Mata, amusingly also Aqua. _She's out to corner the useless female market!_ She's played a few other nasty bitches like Rias, Junko, Hex from Jormungand, and the psychic brat from Future Diary, however!
Just please for the love of god, anime/manga fans, do NOT make the same mistakes that gamers keep making with their hobby turning to crap due to their refusal to gatekeep tourists and blindly consooming from companies who've made it clear that they hate them personally.
@@heywoodjablome2767 I think the majority of anime and manga watchers just watch fansubs anyway. English anime, while certainly not unpopular, isn't the most popular either.
@@heywoodjablome2767 well i don't know about you but some Anime community have gatekeep tourist pretty hard. You know the kind of people that would comment "what the hell is this? Its gross delete it!!". I have seen the community destroyed them
Also love how she passive-voice called that guy asking her questions with exclamation points a death threat. It really lets you know what she means when she says Vic supporters were sending her death threats or the like.
"Just learn Japanese" Well, I mean, I am trying. So thanks for pushing me harder into that so I don't need to wait till it gets (wrongly) "dubbed." If everyone learned the source material then we wouldn't need Funi and their foul employees.
I've said this before but it's absolutely wild how every time localizers attempt to explain themselves they always, and I mean, ALWAYS end up making things so much worse.
Because they're not trying to explain themselves, if they were we'd be like "oh okay well don't do it again" Instead they're actively and openly insulting everyone
It's not really surprising. Generally they have chosen to respond in one of three ways: 1. Strawman the opposition and claim that they are demanding 1:1 translations. To be fair, 1:1 translating would be bad, that's basically MTL. But people are asking for faithful translations. They bring this up literally every time though, as if there's some sort of bizarre ritual we need to perform before we can get into the actual discussion. 2. Admit that they are providing inaccurate translations, but try to deflect from their political motivations by claiming that the original language was written by someone who is either misguided or an active ismphobe, and therefore misrepresenting their works is a good thing. They usually get trashed for this, so the most successful way to deal with it has been: 3. Ignore the topic completely, attempt to shame people into silence on the topic by calling them incels or bigots for expressing a desire for accurate translations, or simply appeal to triviality and argue that they shouldn't care so much about the topic and should just go touch grass or something. Historically 3. has been rather successful, people have just given up, and you can see this happening outside of the localization sphere as well when people get upset about political messaging in western games. But when the topic gets coverage - when the base of fans becomes aware of what is happening - we see things like this. On that note, don't buy anything NISA gets their hands on. Their offices are full of people like Jamie.
@@Claudekrits mesmerisingly twisted how people who really need help and touch grass in every other conversation yell to people that they must get help and touch grass. As morally paniked purist-prostitute. Seems like in their little isolated world complaining about patriarchy IS completely normal, common and neutral way to say "some people dont liked my clothes", and any information from outside world sounds for them as insane ramblings so i guess there is some twitter-grass (nft one?) and when twitter freak demands you to touch grass he actually meant the opposite - become terminally twittered so insane things would seem normal to you
It's because they don't care. They know that they can get away with this, because the average Japanese developers and artists don't know about this, and likely won't for a long time.
@@joshuajefferson3504 He falsely acused a small creator of being a pdfile and sent his fanbase after them and people exposed him on Twitter were he followed loli artists
I never understood hate that tectone keep getting I never played genshin either Until i watched a video from him about people wanting him game end I thought he is loud but i het what he says I watched another vid reacting to asmon failing to pull in hsr, i thought its so funny Then after 5 video later, i asked youtube to never recomend me any of his videos ever again I was losing 99% of my brain function because how stupid all of those 5 videos were
Fun thing is, AI technically can't translate Ichigo (Kurosaki)'s name as "Strawberry" since it's written with the kanji for 1 and protect. The gag is that it sounds like Ichigo (Strawberry) but it's not written as a such
@@yotvvan2472 sorry, not my point: AI can be useful, what matter is to not overrely on it. For example, while I think that an accurate ai for translation can be made, I personally prefer translating stuff in person, also because, by personal experience, it can be really fun
@@yotvvan2472 AI/machine translation is the bare minimum bar of quality for any translated work. Due to the nature of language, trained humans will be generally better at it than computers ever could be for the foreseeable future. If the people doing it do it better than a computer can, then swapping over means a loss in quality. In completely practical terms, this quality is the only redeeming factor for a human performing this job. If said humans begin producing work that is of equivalent or worse quality to what a computer could produce, then, in completely practical terms, there is quite literally no reason to keep the humans around. They cost more, work slower, are less reliable, and produce an inferior product.
Jamie also was the one who made the infamous out of context line of add GamerGate to Prison School. The original context was Anzu calling out Shingo for staring at her breast. To which Shingo replies that she needs to wear a smaller bra. Jamie put the GamerGate incel line in and she also voiced Anzu, which it makes it worse, just for the hell of it. By the way, she is sleeping with the top execs at Sony so she had COMPLETE control of the translations.
Not like Sony would ever care what a translator does. If it is as good as machine translation and no customer complains it is fine. But if customers complain, it will depend on if the customer has the right politics because they frankly doesn't care about complaints either.
I have never heard of this Jamie and whatever she is done so it is a wtf moment that I never noticed. Probably due to only watching subs. I want to know for the Prison School scene I watched in dub once and don't remember this scene. I looked it up and it is real but do you know of a different dub or did I just missed that part
@@simong2229 It's the episode the the student council let Shingo out but with a curfew on good behavior after selling out the Kiyoshi on his escape plan to meet Chiyo. Shingo met Anzu and they were going on a date to the arcade. Anzu leaned over and Shingo could see her breasy as plain as day because she has a habit lf wear bras bigger than her actual cup size. Anzu called him out for staring while Shingo called her out for wearing bras bigger than her size. The line in the dub was at that point. Little did Shingo know, Anzu was a diversion to make him miss the deadline on his curfew and get him and the other boys expelled. I hope that helps
@@simong2229 It's the episode the the student council let Shingo out but with a curfew on good behavior after selling out the Kiyoshi on his escape plan to meet Chiyo. Shingo met Anzu and they were going on a date to the arcade. Anzu leaned over and Shingo could see her breasy as plain as day because she has a habit lf wear bras bigger than her actual cup size. Anzu called him out for staring while Shingo called her out for wearing bras bigger than her size. The line in the dub was at that point. Little did Shingo know, Anzu was a diversion to make him miss the deadline on his curfew and get him and the other boys expelled. I hope that helps clear things up
I have noticed on some games or anime when characters call someone oniichan, the subs just say the character's name or completely ignore it outright. Obviously the localizers/sub writers hate having a character call someone Big Brother.
That is disgusting if you don't need to understand the language that you are localizing. Like...how? You would think a company would want reliable translators for bringing something from one culture to another like anime/manga.
Anyone creating a false translation and selling their services of translation should be liable for some kind of fraud. They need to be held accountable.
This is why I don't support the dub industry or subscribe to any of these outlets; you're not getting the story you want to experience, you're getting what they want you to experience. Glad the machine is coming to give us salvation.
Im a big fan of Japanese culture so the only localizations i want is just making it so i can understand what is being said, i dont need it sugar coated with western lingo and western culture, if i wanted that i would watch Hollywood
Chainsaw Man was a recent example done right. I watched it both sub and dub as well as reading the manga. I personally don't need an autistically dissected exact word for word translation from the manga or sub, just something that fits and is faithful and good voice acting. Dragon Maid dub just didn't vibe with me personally.
@@qrowthebird7496 Yep I agree, localization definitely includes changing original cultural references to things more relatable to the target LOCAL audience, hence why they've been hired to LOCALIZE the content. But there are definite GREAT localizers and then there's Jamie and her ilk. 😲 What @JakeisSick56 wants is a transcription from Japanese into English with no localization.
In Mexico they used to have to wait for the English translation so we could make our own localization, back in the 90s it was the 4kids version or nothing Thank God for the internet and the massive growth of the animanga industry, now they translate directly from Japanese, and yeah sometimes there are misteps, videogames like final fantasy or fire emblem we're still stuck with the localizer curse, but overall mangas and anime are almost perfectly translated. Like did you know Power from chainsaw man is actually a dude? The demon from ancient era is possessing the girl's body, the person who translated the manga here in Spanish took to Twitter to explain his take, turns out he took his time to research the kanjis in her dialogues and her words didn't match up to the other characters, (she uses a lot the word Knave, among other key words) because her words were more archaic, from another era, usually attached to male soldiers.. that's what a localizer is supposed to do, to love their job and to always try to improve the readers experience, to enrich what the author wrote, not to "fix it for a target audience"
That only applied to series that were handled by 4kids (Pókemon, Yugioh, One Piece) and it wasn't even just the translation, they also aired the episodes with the edits they made, which included the western openings and the censorhip (removing firearms, covering cleavages, etc). But series that weren't under them in the west like Dragonball, Digimon, Sailor Moon and Seiya were not censored and the localization was based the original script.
Ok that note about caring about hobbies, whenever someone says “why do you care so much” it means that they have no argument other than to try to make you feel bad for caring. I want thank all the people who ACTUALLY put their best efforts in providing a good translation (fan or official). Hopefully any vandalizing localizers will be removed from their positions.
A lot of developers, localizers, and voice actors have been acting foolish thinking they're untouchable. They need to get off their high horse, and be more humble.
They aren't even that important to have such gigantic egos. I'm only glad they don't have any real power in society. Just imagine what they would do... Oh, well, no need to imagine.
In terms of localizers digging themselves into an even deeper hole, what layer are they in until we reach the core when this controversy reaches its peak?
Honestly, I feel bad for the localizers that are actually doing their job as it was itnended, which is to make stiff lines fit better while keeping the meaning.
I'm realizing that a lot of localizers keep making arguments that are always geared towards an extreme. Like it's impossible for them to see nuance. I guess that also explains their shitty translations too.
"i DON'T know what a Balance Sheet is, get over it" -accountant "I DONT TOUCH GROSS STUFF, get over it" -plumber "I have no clue how to drive, get over it" -Nascar driver
1:28 turns out because of Jamie, we dub watchers missed out on an EVEN BETTER JOKE!!! I was annoyed at localizers before this, but now Im FURIOUS because who knows what other jokes I've missed out on!!! Back in the day, there were examples of localizers actually succeeding in making what would become iconic scenes or lines that might not have heen thete before. A few Pokemon examples come to mind like frying/drying pan and jelly-filled donuts being my fav 2. Yeah, some jokes from even Pokemon may not translate over, like Team Rocket's Wobbufett saying its name when they bast off. Some light digging resulted in finding the joke that was lost and those scenes becoming quite a bit funnier!
It's wild to me that actually doing your job incorrectly can not only go unaddressed for so long, but actually ACCEPTED as NORMAL. Imagine going to work and just fucking off for 8 hours. What a life to live, huh?
