I live and work in Japan and the first thing I notice when I visit Canada or the US is how things that are broken don't get fixed right away. So many things are "out of order" and there is a lack of pride in making sure things are working properly. Wow, since Yahoo featured this video, I am getting loads of messages!
@@thiskneegrow multiple differences. In US you have a govt that's fighting with each other half of the time, the country split in half and there's so much problems. But in Asian countries, we do what is necessary for the ppl
@@thiskneegrow lol. USA has No Pride in their environment in the cities except for their love for the concept of the American freedom. Everything is different, the size is just one reason out of probably 50000 things that make japan have more pride in making things work well
@@TheSkace if americans were more careful with things and had respect for items being put to use by the general public like they do in other countries they wouldn’t break in the first place. In japan or any other good country, the guy on the opposite side wouldn’t even have used her charger because it wouldn’t be designated for that car bay.
Exactly this. We need it to be as simple as gas not to mention the 150kw supercharger etiquette with every other changer vs V3 250kw. Then all the different ones with electrify America and on and on. It needs to be simple and just work for everyone without knowing charging speeds, adapter differences, etc
This is nothing new with technology. Remember when flip then smart phones were taking off? Each had an individual charger specific to the brand. As time went on we normalized chargers. The transition and time it takes to get sorted out sucks, but it does get figured out.
If it gets to be as simple as Gas or Diesel, Lightning or USBC etc, then most people will be able to understand and either use adapters or easily find one of the two that work for their system, but until then we’re in the middle of the proprietary wars. Hopefully we can learn from the early smartphone cable debacle
I agree. I think HD, 4k, etc are a good analogy. I think people roughly understand that if they have a 4k TV they can watch 4k content without have a larger standards discussion. If we could simplify to DC fast, DC fast+, DC ultra fast (or whatever), then we could much more simply understand, e.g. my Bolt is DC fast, so I don't need the DC ultra fast charger.
Tesla's superchargers are even simpler than gas pumps, but yeah, I do agree that for majority adoption it needs to be so simple that it's almost impossible to do it wrong, I think. There's no way around diverse charging speeds since there's good economical and practical reasons to have different ones. But making a simple standard of colors and symbols to indicate the speeds would be a good start. Before we get a standardized plug, I think there should be clear signs telling the connector type and common things to do. The payment is the biggest issue though - it should all be standard credit cards or automatic payment from car communication.
Too many charging companies, with too many separate apps. A plaza near me installed some new chargers, from a new company, requiring a new app and account. It has to be like gas: show up, plug in, tap to pay.
Absolutely. It is the same here in Norway, but at least CCS2 is universal so no adapter mayhem. Thankful I have a Tesla and don't have to muck about with the gazillion apps for each charging company, of which there are an insane amount (for 5 million people!!!)
Teslas NACS is now the north american standard for most companies. The charging infrastructure is shit because they are like a gas station that only carries one grade of fuel. The charging network is the biggest issue for EVs. (Also people buy truxks they dont need, juat wantws to add thay just because)@KristianRobertsen
As Google Maps is adding more EV features into app, they should add a star rating system for chargers and include that data in route recommendations. The charger manufacturers could also look at that data to help determine which chargers really need something fixed.
Tesla and slowly rivian are the only manufacturers with their own charging networks. The rest are owned by third parties and they don’t give a flying fuck.
They dont care....... investors and the government spending our tax dollars are dumping billions into the charging infrastructure with no incentive to maintain it.......just get it built.....tesla is the only one that makes an effort.....im not a big fan of tesla either by the way but i almost never hear of one of their chargers not working
Imagine if the hose at a gas station sprung a leak. They would instantly fix it before it became an issue. With these chargers they just let them sit broken forever before anyone even attempts to fix it.
Tho the hose is a simpler fix, this is a good point. Solution may be to have the charging stations manned instead of unmanned. Management by people that have an investment in the station. But are they getting enough clients for the cost to benefit ratio
@@zazudeguru he’s a Democrat. They’d want them paid $40/hr, full benefits and a union so they could FO and never get fired. Oh, and then charging would be more expensive than gas. 🤣
This is literally killing the electric car industry. I have had an electric car for a year now and regret it; no charger of my own, rely on public charging and I’d say 75% of chargers are broken or not working properly. (Western Canada) Each charger works differently, no standardization. It’s a nightmare. My situation may be unique in that I am not a home owner and have to rely exclusively on public chargers. It also makes finding a place to live more challenging because I have to factor in proximity to a working public charger.
i’ve had the same experience with non-tesla chargers and like 70% of the time it’s such a convoluted process. they gotta fix the charging infrastructure asap!!
@@MattiaMonticelli regulation, make plug n play (or something close to it) mandatory and roaming between providers mandatory at a fair price. the industry will then figure out the best solution.
@@MattiaMonticelli governments have standardized tons of things. building codes so everyones doesn't use random fucking parts for homes, internet standard protocols, etc. it's a matter of time like everything else when the problems arise that standardization will be pushed by government bodies.
@@TK-gd9td We´re talking about global standards, concerning a multi-billion-international-industry. It took 50 years to apply standards to electrical systems worldwide, and that was back in the days when things developed much, much less rapid. Forget about governments setting standards which also would take away the possibillity of development and technological advance in the field of charging, as it would cement a certain...well...standard and keep it from changing. The only possible transition from petrol to electric cars is a disruptive one, locking out a big part of our population from individual mobility. Unfortunatelly this probably is what to do, considering global warming and it´s devastating effects on people all around the globe.
@@gerokron3412 I know this is gonna bounce like a football from a wall for all in this thread......but ill give it a go. How about thinking less selfish and a bit out of the box. Forget about global warming and do it for practical reasons? A car, used or new starts at 300-400 bucks a month....... (purchase price, taxes, inssurance, repairs, fuel). It's 25-33% of my monthly salary. That's more than i pay for my mortgage of a 90m2 apartment. I'm the one that represents 80% of the population. There's nothing more i would like than good public transport and tell car sellers to shove their new car up their ass. For half the price that 80% population bracket pay for a car, would be more than enough to have not good, but excelent public transportation and maintained in mint condition. Im talking a bus every 5 minutes, and at rush hour every 3min. As a secondary effect you drastically reduce traffic for every1, and would you look at that!!!!, emissions and global warming too. And those situations 4-5 times a year, i pay 50 bucks a day and rent a car or a van, or anything i need. But hey..... why do that, when we can have shitty and convoluted individual mediums that cost an arm and a leg......
I used to work for a car charging company in the UK and the whole industry is a mess. Basically a bunch of large companies trying to install as many charge points as possible that will break after about 2 years because the products haven't properly been tested. Our customer service desk was full of people complaining the app didn't work, the charger won't start charging or the charger is stuck in the car.
Why would companies install as many chargers as they can knowing that they will break soon? That's like deliberately sabotaging your own income stream.
@vkman34 because they thought they could make a profit before they broke. They also want control of the space, so other companies can't put their chargers in.
I think this is one of those points that deserves a main channel video that not a lot of people would consider at a first glance and how the charging experience is similar to how phones used to charge with a billion different connectors, some that were really finicky and some that needed adapters to work with other phones
The connectors aren't really the issue. It's no different than the apple (lightning connector) and literally everyone else (usb-c). You have one player, Tesla, with tons of share doing their own thing (NACS) and literally the rest of market using the CCS plug. Even Teslas in Europe use CCS2! The real issue is availability, reliability, and capacity. The chargers really aren't where you need them, or they're the wrong ones (level 2 when you're in the middle of nowhere and it should be DCFC), or if they are there they aren't working and if they are working they're being used. When comparing to gas stations - an infrastructure that has been cumulatively building over the last 90 years, EV charging has a lot of ground to makeup, very quickly. The Inflation Reduction Act and NEVI funding were designed to help, but right now the financial incentives are for automakers to sell cars and for no one to build chargers. We really need to build like 20% of the gas station infrastructure that we've built in the last 90 years in about 2 years to make EV charging as easy as plentiful as gasoline refueling.
@illusive destroyer But you could USE your phone while it charges, And if you weren’t happy with the charger you could buy another for 10 bucks, worst case you could buy another phone for 500 or borrow the person’s standing next to you, and neither of those two situation‘s really left you and your family stranded over something you paid over 50k for. Not to mention it’s a lot easier for a manufacturer to create and pump out 1 million new five dollar cables versus building and installing 1 million more superchargers in the city. No your little lightning cable versus USB-C incompatibility is not even close to being the same thing dude.
So I work in a Volkswagen dealership and I’m in charge of the delivery. When I deliver an ID.4, I literally have to put in double the time to explain to older people how this whole charging thing works, it’s a nightmare for them to learn to work with the apps and everything needed to charge the car when they are not home. I get many calls from them after the delivery for questions around the charging process. I can totally relate to your thoughts on this
I got the 20 minute rundown from a relative (who had just got an EV6) when I got my Tesla, and I’ve used exactly none of those apps or knowledge. So glad I went Tesla.
It was the car of the son as he stated. So explaining it 2 hours to the son isn't the point if a relative is driving it. If you need 2 hours to explain the operation of a car to an elderly, the whole system is broken.
Thank you for taking the time to talk about this issue. For the record, I would really appreciate it if you dive deep into all the "boring" aspects of electric car ownership. Charging, maintenance, buying versus leasing, app locked features, etc. Really anything and everything that's outside the norm for those of us used to traditional vehicles.
I just bought a Tesla Model Y. I’m in my 70s and I live in the Palm Springs area with many others born long ago. the problems you describe are not just a generational thing. Lots of people my age have Teslas and other EVs. But every single one of my peers I talked to knows about the chaos of non-Tesla charging. All of us have the wherewithal to install level 2 chargers at home. And, we all have time to deal with the problems of charging. My children (who are in their 20s-40s) see EVs as being too much of a hassle due to the charging issues. They are short on wherewithal or time or both. As you said, this is killing EVs not because you can’t deal with the problem but because dealing with the overhead of charging is simply not worth it for busy people.
It's like a flagship phone, bruh. You buy the case BEFORE you even buy the phone so you'll have protection on day one. That's where they jack'd up. Infrastructure should have been there FIRST
Honestly, that's only a Tesla owner problem. Everyone else is on the same page (with the exception of LEAF owners). Bolt EV, VW Id4, the Mach-E, and everyone else all have the same standard charging plug. Evgo and Chargepoint are now "the standard", the pendulum has swung, Tesla lost that "monopoly" in my opinion. I have a Bolt EV and have zero problems whatsoever. Between EVgo and Chargepoint, I have never had any issues.
That is a very great point! I would personally say a lot of people I know in my age group (20+) ironically don't want to deal with electric vehicles because of how complicated they find charging it is. P.S. I dont know why I have never seen nor remember the word "wherewithal" in any text I have ever read but thank you for this gem. I am inspired... nay, even determined to use it the next time the opportunity to sound fancy arises!
The finicky charging where you need to twist the cable really reminds me of the time when everyone had wired headphones and at some point the sound cuts, so you start twisting the wire around your phone to find a working “angle”. Let’s hope soon there will be a solution!
I have the same problem with an air compressor from Harbor Freight. The cord is produced by the cheapest possible manufacturer, and depending how you twist it, will lose electrical contact internally. It's too frustrating. Just make them properly, please.
@@nowake Yes, and replaceable. Like, connectors on the device's end please. There's SEVERAL standards that allow locking ones, waterproof or whatnot (heck there's connectors for stage lighting that can resist 155°c). The cable will eventually break even if it's better quality, but at least this way it's simple for anyone to replace it. Not to mention fixed cables make transporting the device an annoyance.
In Europe EU has just made a law that forces every charger provider to put a credit card reader on the charging station so that you can pay directly that way without any app.
Do you know if / when existing stations will be upgraded to support that? Or do you have a link to the article? I currently use 2 different apps and would love to change to credit card
I agree, EV makers are glad to take your money for their vehicles, and let the consumer deal with the charging grid issues. But would love an in-depth video about the issues with the existing USA power grid problems.
@Jimmy Two Times you asked a question, so I guess the "counterpoint" would be the answer. The answer is no, they do not also do that with gas stations. Gas pump interfaces are standardized and open. Having to recite basic facts is sad and tiresome, so please in the future be kind to others by saying interesting things.
@Jimmy Two Times if they were responsible people who cared about humans, they would spend at least 4 nanoseconds putting forth the effort to cooperate on useful standards.
Hahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa...not the "what's up guyzzz!!!!"...thank you, that's annoying AF when most youtubers say it... MKHB does say it most times, but calmly
I couldn't put my finger on what I liked about these videos, and I think you nailed it. WHAT'S UP GUYZZZ IT'S YO BOY HILLBILLY HERE COMIN AT YA WITH A BOOMER THAT CAN'T WORK HER CHARGER, AFTER THIS WORD FROM OUR SPONSOR!!
The charging issue will catch up. The lady in your story has no business driving an electric car unless/until she understands the basics of charging. Can’t tell you how many people i see these days that are unable to simply change a flat tire. Personal responsibility actually comes in handy, more people should familiarize themselves with the concept. Or as Forrest Gump says, “stupid is as stupid does.”
As a 3-year Bolt lessee, I can completely relate to everything you said. Every few months I make the same 700-mile round-trip to see family, and after two years I thought I knew where the good charging stations were and which ones would give me trouble. However, the last two trips I've spent more than two hours each way dealing with faulty chargers at what had previously been trustworthy stations. My conclusion is that the supply of functioning chargers has in no way kept up with the demand, putting more strain on what's already built. On top of that, when I take the Bolt somewhere I haven't been before, it's always a learning experience figuring out where the good charging spots are at my destination. Usually there aren't many, and many of the ones that do exist only have Tesla plugs. Which is why whenever interested ICE drivers ask me about my ownership experience, I always recommend that they buy a Tesla if they plan on road-tripping. The charging situation for everything else at this point is iffy at best, and dreadful at worst.
As a current bolt owner I completely agree! I started driving more since my girlfriend moved and drove more and started figuring out the charging spots. There’s a walmart in front of where she lives and it had an EVgo, a few months ago they took it off for some reason and it’s really helpful since there isn’t a supercharger for another 12 miles. I had to find another DC and became frustrating. I still love my bolt but I don’t reccomend an electric car for road trip which is why I have a gas car on the side for further distances👍🏻
I did a 3000 mile road trip in my Rivian. Once we left California, it started getting dicey, especially as we went into some rural towns. 100% of the non Tesla/Rivian charging locations had units that were down. Then once we reached British Columbia, high speed chargers were completely nonexistent (in Vancouver on top of that). So charging from home is great, if you have a Tesla and stick to the interstates you’ll be ok…. Otherwise the infrastructure still has a long way to go before EVs can be more than a round trip commute car. Which is justifiable for 99% use cases. Just need to also have a gas powered long range vehicle as well.
The charging infrastructure is becoming a huge talking point by a lot of youtubers. I realized this after owning Tesla’s for years and then got a Bolt for daily commuting. I tried to roadtrip my Bolt less than 500kms and it was not enjoyable. I really can only suggest one brand to friends.
@@XLoaferY , No. Until all those other brands can use all of Tesla’s charging stations or directly match it with their own Tesla is the only real option. Specially since Tesla’s can also use all other public charging options along with their own robust and convenient charging network. You cannot possibly fully understand this advantage if you’ve never owned a Tesla.
Absolutely spot on. I have pulled up to an "Electrify America" charging station that showed all 4 chargers available and none worked. People had put sticky notes on it to say "Don't work". Or you pull up to a charging station and when you go to plug in, the screen comes out of hibernation to say the charger is unavailable. It is frustrating, especially when you plan a longer trip and chargers show as available but really are not. My EV is just for around town now since my home charger runs off solar and is dependable vs the public chargers. For longer trips I just use the old fashion gas car since that infrastructure is solid.
This happened to my father in 2021. He leased a Polestar, and he loved it to bits, he was always excited to take me for a ride or show it off to his friends. He drove it all the time around the city, but he's also the type of person who loves doing 1 day road trips, driving 200 miles in a day sometimes. Obviously he had planned for charging along the way, but 9 times out of 10 a charger was broken, or the charging speed was horribly slow. And after 2 months he got fed up with the thing. Even though he loved it so much, he ended up rolling over the lease to a gas Volvo...
That's unfortunate. I find Polestar's infotainment is one of the better ones out there (I've never driven a Tesla, but I understand that it's probably the best when it comes to navigation). If he couldn't figure out charging with built-in navigation and calculating the best charger to go to, it's probably still too complicated, or the charging networks still suck.
He just wasn't ready for them yet, the electronic world is a bit hard to grasp if your not savvy with it. Maybe he should have charged at home when he's asleep. Like most EV owners do.
@@waynelevett3632 Did you even read the post? He did figure out what to do, but the chargers were broken or slow, and he can't charge at home on a road trip. If you think it's unlikely to find so many broken chargers, you are wrong. Unfortunately that's the reality in the US, unless you drive a Tesla.
That's the main reason I got the Volvo xc60 recharge (plug in hybrid). It has a small range (about 60 km) but I can easily charge from my 110v garages outlet. I commute no more than 30 km daily and if I ever run out of battery, I still have a 2.0 l turbo ICE that can take me anywhere. Until the charging infrastructure is reliable, I will not fully adopt EVs.
I have the E Transit. Just bought it Saturday. It has been plugged in over 24 hours. I started with 44 miles of charge or range and now at 10, it is up to 86 for range. I will get the Level 2 with 2 30 amp breakers charging at 48 amps. This is painful.
Completely agree. As an engineer I don't mind the little annoyances until they pile up, but for the average person even one bad experience trying to charge is enough to calcify someone against EVs because they're just not ready yet for mainstream
When I got my Model 3 I basically gave my Leaf to my mom for an about town car. She loves it and wants to take it to further away places but it's at the edge of her round trip range. She asked where she can charge up but I told her seriously don't even try. She is VERY technology challenged and just getting her to download and install plugshare was an experience I never want to repeat. Trying to get her to open and keep track of accounts for the various charge networks (let alone at her age just not losing the cards/fobs) is basically impossible. I know most people over 50 will just never bother. My dad wouldn't use a microwave for 20 years because it was too intimidating. Yeah there are people like that.
I’m turning 53 tomorrow. I consider myself somewhat tech savvy all my life and even then I won’t get an EV until I have no choice. Watching these kinds of videos of the problems and issues of EVs have completely turned me off of them. I hope that changes someday but meanwhile there are too many ICE vehicles that I want to own before I go electric.
Most car owners, aren't 'car people.' I used to work at a car rental company. A lot of people totally feel out of place in an unfamiliar vehicle and only really know their own vehicle. . . It becomes significantly worse for those who've been driving the same Oldsmobile for the last two or three decades and who haven't sat in the driver seat of a modern vehicle before. People eventually reach a point of getting tired of having to learn new stuff, especially if it's something you've gone through most of your life never previously needing to know, and you're not even sure why you have to learn it now. . . I've had elderly people sit in a new rental car, and genuinely start having a panic attack, or flat out refuse to take the vehicle because it was so alien to them that they didn't think they could learn to drive it. . . And these were gas powered cars. Add the extra discomfort of having to learn an entirely new system for 'refueling', and you can bet it'll be a hard pass for some.
My Dad is over 70 years and has a lot of problems with tech... but electric cars is awesome for him because he charges at home and he is afraid to drive long distances so everything is within range and he avoids the gas station hassle, he just plugs the car and thats it. Not for everyone.
I once worked at an inn with two Tesla charging stations. One of them worked, the other was intermittent. The numerous calls to Tesla to replace this faulty charger fell on 'deaf ears.' As time progressed I would be faced with people who in one case, purchased a new Jaguar in Boston and drove north to Maine for the weekend. The inn offered free charging for electric cars. Of course, the Jaguar and the first generation Tesla chargers were not compatible. The folks who purchased the Jaguar had no idea on how to charge their car, or what was required to adapt their car to a Tesla charger. I was responsible to ensure, we always had a universal adapter, and could provide charging for any electric car that arrived at the inn. I found that the disconnect between what people were purchasing and how to use it was huge, and expectation on the part of the purchasers to be that of a gasoline filling station mentality. There needs to be a greater emphasis on training purchasers (on the part of car dealerships). Folks with money, buy electric cars, and expect everyone else to service their needs. Not a good scenario for the future of electric cars. BTW: In the period of two years, Tesla never responded to our requests for a replacement charger.
Tesla not converting to the industry standard is and will continue to be an even greater problem. Yes there was reason originally, but to not convert over now is simply stubbornness.
@@brettsherman7810 They changed to the standard in Europe (the standard that got designed by german manufacturers after Teslas standard). But the real problem is something else. Don’t blame the only company that is doing something. Blame the ones that do nothing. All the other manufacturers put close to zero dollar in the charging infrastructure. VW was forced to build Electrify America and the rest is payed by the tax payer. Only Tesla is using their own money to make E-Mobility work. But yet people sh*t on them without thinking for a second.
@@Zedus-rl9hp The Tesla charger is superior, but unfortunately they didn’t open it up to other manufacturers so it forced the development of CCS. An inferior universal standard always beats a superior proprietary one.
I love it that you and Stradman are bringing attention to this issue at the same time. That's definitely the next big obstacle for EVs to get to mass adoption.
The entire country of Canada has around 150 Tesla superchargers. If you don’t own a house with a charger at home, you probably don’t own a tesla because the logistics are ridiculous.
Nah. Have you seen how cobalt is mined. They used kids to mine that toxic shit. There are many issues with EVs that need to be solved before a mass switch over from fossil fuels.
I’m glad this video came up a year later because it is still relevant. Had to help a couple at an Electrify America charger at a mall near Round Rock TX. They ended up renting an electric car because it was the only car available in the size they needed. The rental car company didn’t explain the charging basics nor were there instructions in the car. Both the rental car companies and the charging networks need to make this an easy experience.
I've driven 100% electric for 6 years now and this is the biggest thing holding back adoption. When I had a Leaf I had 10 different apps on my phone for different charging networks, half the chargers were broken or had some convoluted way to get them started. Tesla on the other hand you plug the car in, it charges and you leave. That is the way things need to work for things to really take off. The cars are amazing but with charging we're still in the Betamax VS VHS days.
It would help is Tesla ditched their own special connection (like they have in the rest of the world) and then you wouldn't need any connectors. Then it would help if they opened up the American supercharging network (like the rest of the world) so other cars can charge at their locations. Tesla might be "showing the way" but at the same time they are also making the problem worse for any American non tesla owner.
Fortunately in Europe there is a main standard for fast charging (ccs2 combo) so the majority of ev doesn’t need any adapter (also tesla here use ccs2 combo). In addition to this at least in Italy all the major charging network/provider (aside for Tesla supercharger) are interoperable so you can use one app to operate 99% of public chargers and even buy kwh with a subscription just like with mobile phone provider to reduce to half or less the price of electricity
It would honestly be so cool if you would do a "State of electric vehicle charging infrastructure" (working title) video once a year just to provide some historic context as to how the infrastructure is progressing over the year. The video probably wouldn't do that great, but I still think it would be cool.
If you're interested in retrocomputing, you've probably heard of the 8-Bit Guy. He also occasionally does videos about electric vehicles and he did something very much like what you described about three years ago. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-TcoLCTkM0ys.html
Recommending the lady to just go to the supercharger 5 mins away is definitely the best advice, even if they have to wait in the car for 15mins for it to charge, it would've added more juice than if they had plugged into the chargepoint and shopped in the mall for 2 hours. They are better off supercharging, then coming back and park in a regular spot for shopping.
Yeah and unfortunately other manufacturers would rather use the inferior CCS standard (which has the exact same problems as the J1772 in this video) rather than the superior NACS connector
I believe that here in Australia we already have regulations to ensure standardisation of charging systems (i.e. your EV will work with any charger). I think this is critical for the success of EVs. We can’t have different brands with different compatibility - that’s a nightmare.
As someone about to get their first EV I would LOVE for you to start doing reviews of charging networks on AutoFocus. Bringing more focus on the different networks - and ranking them competitively - is the only way to get to improvements.
If its in the budget get a Tesla, alternatively if you can charge at home over night do that instead This issue WILL piss you off lol W Tesla these issues are essentially gone
Electrify America, then EVgo. ChargePoint stations are typically owned by the property owner, so it's completely subject to the individual owner's level of maintenance. My personal experience is that they tend to work, but I've read lots of horror stories. That said, ChargePoint is creating a new hardware maintenance program for property owners to help improvie reliability, but I don't know how long before that shows.
Great point. The charging infrastructure here in the UK is not keeping up with the number of electric cars that are now on the road. I have owned mine for just over a year, and I have noticed that the chargers are getting busier and more of them are not working as I found out today when I tried the charge. If a petrol/gas pump was out of order, it would get repaired pretty quickly, but chargers seem to take a long time to be repaired.
One of the problems still is that people just move to another and they lost revenue for 1 slow charger. While a pump looses loads of revenue. And will be fixed quicker. Also, we need a simple way to ping the owner to say its out of order. And send that info to other drivers. Nothing worse than your smart car/app sending you to an out of order charger, while it's saying there are free spots
I work as a product designer for a company that creates both hardware & software solutions in the EV charging space - This is such an incredibly important video. We’re working day and night on figuring out how to support our App users through the physical and software constraints in the industry - but the fact is that it’s all going to take some to figure itself out. Gas industry has had decades of testing and trials to a point now that we don’t think twice about getting gas. Good design is invisible! But we’re at it, I promise you that! Thanks again Marques!
I'm curious, Rhea. If we can pay for gas, food, bar tabs, etc. by simply swiping a card, why can't that be done with EV chargers? (Especially just copying the gas model). We don't need apps, RFID, or any of that. I see it as over-engineering, or just trying to unnecessarily force people to download and use apps so that the company can make money off them later or prop up their # of app users. Where am I wrong? (I must be or someone would already be doing what I'm saying.)
Your first issue is starting with an app. Why should the user need a smartphone to interact with your charger? Gas industry just focussed on getting liquid into the car. Initially handled by a service station attendant and then later by self serve. No apps or other things needed, just roll up put the filler in, fill up and then pay. electric should be no less simple. Plug in, fillup and pay.
@@sammer2587 To put it as simply as possible - the problem is mostly money (credit card fees and terminal fees) but also a huge portion of the problem comes from managing PCI DSS (credit card providers) certification. It is a pain in the ass, especially when your chargers are slow and you have some minimum cc fee. That is why everyone is trying to engineer their way around it and make money by making larger transaction at once on a website (or otherwise) to not have more than half of the transaction go to fees. With some RFID solution you also don't have to worry about costly cc terminals and the maintenance of them AND the PCI DSS certification. Would you charge 2$ with 1$ credit card fees OR Would you charge some account 20$ with 1,20$ in fees and then use the app/rfid/whatever?
1000%! I hate all non-tesla chargers like charge point. Could you imagine a gas station fucking forcing you to download the right app, make an account, login, give your cc info, put a balance on a wallet, scan a qr code, check the station id, pray there's no technical issues, and then let you finally fill your car up with gas? NO! We need electric chargers that either charge you automatically or let you freaking walk up and scan your card like a damn gas station and then charge your car.
Hey, Chris here from China. I've been thinking about buying electric for my next car for some time and I have been asking Chinese owners around here, especially concerning Chinese brands such as Geely, Aion and others and this seems to have already been solved by sheer number of chargers per square Km. They might have 10 chargers in 1 mall and then 1 block away they will have another 6 or 8. So even though 2-3 might be broken at the time you go there, you'll have enough charge to get to the next one. Also, if there is one or two that are broken, oftentimes they get reported on the app that they use to charge with and this ends up getting replaced within a week or less. During the Chinese New Year when many Chinese people drive back to their hometown, usually the gas stations are an absolute nightmare and traffic can make you sit in one place for a few hours or more, but this I saw that they had added portable charging busses. Literally mobile chargers that could charge up 4-6 extra cars at a time depending on their size. It seems that they saw the infrastructure was lacking during the holidays and they made sure to have a backup plan which seems to have worked well. Also, this video might be 8k, but I definitely feel the video quality took a hit when compared to the iphone.
Agree 100%. The service is very important. Funny story, 50 year old me joined Sam's club today. After tinkering with the app for a bit I felt I had a handle on it. Went to the store scanned and added a few items to my cart then paid in the app allowing me to bypass all the miserable lines. Honestly it was the best experience I ever had shopping in a store. But I still can't see my parents figuring it out.
Exactly, that’s basically what these chargers are. All of them need a different app, it’s so stupid. It should have been made a federal mandate looooong ago that any public charger needs to be able to be activated on the station with a credit card and no app/RFID card whatsoever, I know that’s the way it is now for the installation to qualify for federal funds but 90% of the existing ChargePoint chargers only accept ChargePoint cards and it’s so hard to explain to non tech savvy people how to deal with Apple wallet/use the app
This is why I keep saying the lack of standardization is a giant anchor on the entire EV industry. Chargers need to be standardized. Even better, the actual batteries need to be standardized so they can be swapped between manufacturers. The notion of auto companies manufacturing their own unique batteries is just as silly as auto manufacturers trying to get their own oil.
I am in South Broward County, Fl (Ft Lauderdale area). I have been in this same experience; The charging infrastructure is bad. The charge point chargers at Walmart are frequently broken and busy. Several times I had to travel across town to charge. I tried helping people; several who had rentals took their cars back and others were just disgusted. I installed my own at home and dread traveling because of the issues.😢
My girlfriend works for an electric car leasing company. We had and ID4 to test out and when it came to charge it, we had to go to six (6) separate chargers before we found one that worked, and when we got there, we were right at 1 mile til empty. That experience on its own didn't fully disuade me from buying electric, but it has definitely delayed it until I can own my own house to put a charger in it. Definitely agree that the infrastructure needs the most work.
I only charge my car at my house, mostly because I never take it any farther than I need to to be able to do that, so I've never even tried to charge it at a charging station. Even though I've had the opportunity to do so, I didn't do it simply because I didn't want to have to screw with accounts and all that other BS, so I can totally see why someone would be totally turned off by an experience like that.
I think home charging is part of the problem. At lot of people simply don't even see the problems or at least don't experience them often. Most regular people, at least around here, barely ever drive further than a full charge will allow. In fact, they often love it. They say "oh yea no more trips to the gas station, I just come home and plug it in". I honestly just fear the home charging will cause there to be a relatively low amount of public chargers, which usually doesn't even have to be a problem as obviously there is supply and demand, but I can't help but imagine massive wait times at chargers during the holidays or something when there are suddenly a lot more people who want to travel further.
You've absolutely nailed it with this one. The charging infrastructure should be just as important as the car's themselves. No where near at the moment.
Here's how it should work: Buy car > add your credit card ONCE to the Settings app in your car > approach an electric vehicle charger > get out of car > plug charger into car > car charges the battery and charger charges your credit car. Car and charger handle it all. Each charger should have a phone number and tap to pay system as redundant backup ways to pay for charging.
It is just as important. The one manufacturer who seems to understand this, Tesla, acted accordingly. We just have to wait for the 'competition' to catch up. Competition.. yeah, right. Left up to them there would be almost no EVs worthy of the name today. They had to get scared that they would lose their lunch money in order to do even the little they are doing now. Not to mention those manufacturers still openly in opposition to electric mobility.
@@savedfaves That's the reason the EU made CCS 2 the port you have to use. The next thing is that ISO 15118 (plug and charge) should be required by the EU, which VW is trying to do. In the meantime, it is starting to get implemented. VW wants that you can put a few charging cards in and your credit card. If you plug the car in, it automatically selects the card that charges for the cheapest. Germany forces that charging stations build after July this year need an option to pay with your banking card without making it a lot more expensive. Plug and Charge should be implemented in a few years, so before the mass adoption of EVs really starts. That the US didn't enforce a common charging connector was a mistake. Either tesla makes their connector truly open source communication included (their port is now kinda open) or CCS should be the standard. Tesla could have pushed in 2014 to make it THE charging connector, including communication. If they had open sourced it, but they did not. What they didn't do. In the EU they had to change every supercharger to CCS and the US would be even more expensive. Or teslas are going to be the cars that can only charge at superchargers and a few other charging station that think it is worth it to have an extra cable for or you have to use an adapter
It still shocks me here in New Zealand. The goverment is offering thousands of dollars worth of rebates on electric cars but in most towns you could count on two hands how many chargers there are that are publicly available. Although basically every single town has at least one or two chargers. There is way more gas stations than there is even singular charging ports. We are seriously lacking behind...
And for most people as you said, its just too hard to learn all the new ways of charging. Electric cars need to be for the consumer not the prosumer. NORMAL everyday people need to be able to use the chargers without having to read hundred pages of how tos or even wathc a video. Gas is easy, shove the filler in the hole. Once it stops your done. It needs to be that easy.
@@germanhatchback With gas you shove the filler in the hole, pick from 1 of 4 gasoline types and you better now screw up with diesel! Then you have to credit card, zip code, etc, deny the car wash. With a Tesla supercharger you just shove it in the hole and walk away.
@@JackMott Firstly, diesel is CLEARLY marked green and the nozzle is quite far away from the gasoline nozzle. Secondly, pressing the gas type takes fractions of a second. Thirdly, pushing a zip code or pin is quite easy and quick. Pay cash if it's too much for you. And lastly and MOST IMPORTANTLY, it's the same process to fuel up ANY CONSUMER CAR, unlike EV's (Tesla vs everything else) Also, only some gas stations have the pump ask if you'll like a car wash. Plenty of one's don't, go there instead
This has happened to me multiple times at every Mall Charger known to man. You can be going to the mall to buy an entire new wardrobe and still spend more time in the damn parking lot trying to get it to work, only to do the most embarrasing walk of shame into the mall never having gotten it to start even after 47 minutes of messing about. Shame chargepoint and every other charge station.
Sounds horrible. lol That'd be enough to get me to reconsider my car. I'm the type, I don't have the patience or calmness to deal with that sort of thing. If something as basic as charging a battery becomes a difficult task, I'd just give up on it. I got more important things to worry about and spend my time on.
@@MG-im8ku Exactly, lol. That's why I bought a Tesla and not a different EV. The Tesla superchargers are underappreciated. No apps. It always works. And they are always 150-250kW
@@LuKiSCraft I'm not even sure about those though. My local mall has a row of about 15 tesla superchargers. More than half of them are always broken. lol Walked by so many people in the parking lot yelling at the chargers for not working lol It's gotten to the point where ICE vehicles are parking in the spots of the broken tesla chargers, since no one can use them.
@@MG-im8ku Whoa, really? I have NEVER seen more than 1 stall out of order. And even that only happened once (15 of the 16 were operational). Which supercharger is this?
@@LuKiSCraft Yeah, I always find it ridiculous. Not sure if you meant which model supercharger, not sure. Can check next time I'm at that mall. If you mean where, it's a trendy mall just outside of Toronto. Recently made popular by a video of a guy driving into and through the mall at night to rob a few stores (just happened last week) lol
Totally agree. Here in Norway about 20% of all cars are electric, but there is still like 5 different apps you have to use, and you can get like an nfc chip that wors for some of the chargers but not all and its just really anoying and unintuitive. Hope this will get better on a global basis! great video as always
Yeah, we have that too in Slovakia. Every company with 10 chargers has a subscription program where you have to pay monthly fee to get cheaper prices, or even get a card to even be able to charge at all. Not to mention many locations have just a single charger, so it that one is broken, you have a big problem.
That was the experience my dad had when he rented a Model 3 from Hertz. He couldn't end up charging it and returned it after a day. Very interesting to see a real world example of these frustrations. Also good on you to be so helpful. :) Many people would just ignore these people in trouble, at least here in socal.
I would also like to share some experiences from Poland. So I do own a Plug-in Hybrid which is mostly charged at home. I have one app for the charging network in my home town, but whenever I travel to a different city I need to download another app, register, and add payment details to start using it. Basically in every other city there is another charging network to which I need register to and I ended up with 6 different apps to charge my vehicle. Hardware-wise I didn't experience any issues like you, but the fact that I need to register to another company when I'm traveling is kinda annoying
cant you just use plugsurfing? though i agree that payment/apps are idiotic, im not sure why we cannot get card payment reader built-in in the charger itself, like in the gas pumps.
@@xeon2k8 You get that more and more now. The problem is the same as it is with plugsurfing, tho: compared to provider accounts, the prices are OUTRAGEOUS. I recently saw it at a BP pulse station, since they have to declare the on-demand prices now. Had I charged without an account or with plugsurfing, I would've paid almost 10€ more for my whole charge....just for not having an account with them.
That charging cable bending to make it work really sounds like old phones with wonky chargers, or stuff we would have to do to properly get an electric guitar plugged into an amp to get the sound right. Totally relatable.
Reminds me of the days when most phones had micro usb ports and as they started to age, you had position the charging plug in some strange angle to get it to work. If electric cars have this problem too then we might as well be better off with gas cars for a while.
You’re absolutely right. I’ve been driving an EV for five years now and, while there have been a lot of improvements and growth in infrastructure, there is a long way to go. There are so many examples of installations half finished for years, installations that breakdown and are not repaired or installations only within expensive parking lots. The other concern I have is that so many new and planned installations are still level 2 which is useless on a highway trip. It’s fine if you’re planning to stay the night in a hotel, but when you’re on your way across the country and looking for a one hour break where you can recharge, level 2 chargers serve no function except to make the government or corporation that installed them feel good about themselves. Under normal circumstances, I rarely need to charge away from home, but it does make me think twice about long trips where there are still no guarantees that promised infrastructure will be alive and functioning where the map says it is.
I have a feeling this will change on a whole once the big car manufacturers all start their transition to "no more gas powered cars." VW will start in 2033. Toyota will be doing EV and Hybrid by 2030. Honda will go EV by 2030. Mercedes Benz has also announced an all-EV date of 2030. Pretty much everyone in Europe is doing it by 2030. American car manufacturers are the ones dragging their feet. Ford has announced "emission free" by 2035, but that's about as vague as it gets. GM is at least going all-electric by 2035. That's the stuff that's going to hurt the push for more infrastructure more than anything in the US. We're likely to be far behind the curve compared to europe and asia. But the light at the end of the tunnel is here. Eventually there are going to be a ton of EV cars on the streets and a lot of money to be made from charging them. The closer we get to 2030, the more that infrastructure is going to spread. They won't be throwing money at something without demand. The demand's gonna be there. It's also gonna be the most absurdly chaotic time for EV owners, as there will likely be a time when EVs flood the streets while there's still a shortage of available chargers. There are gonna be a LOT of parking lot fistfights.
Thank you for this. I don't have an ev. But, I would like one. It's just nice to hear about you helping someone who doesn't know how to make the charing work. I've seen so many videos on bad charging stations I keep wondering how less knowledgeable people will cope with these janky charging stations. This message has got to be aired louder so that these charging station companie and the ev manufacturers will become more concerned with customer friendly equipment. It would be cool if someone started an ev charging company that actually offered full service charging for the newbs because this would help troubleshoot when the charges aren't working.
Rich Rebuilds did a great video where he drove his Rivian from Virginia to Florida and then back to Massachusetts, highlighting the issues he had with the charging infrastructure along the way. Really good video that dives deeper into the first-hand experience of where our EV infrastructure is at right now.
Yup. I really liked the R1T, but as my main vehicle I don't trust being able to find chargers when traveling. Tesla has the only charging infostructure I trust. Heck in the Bay Area it took me forever to find a CCS charger to test my CCS adapter when I got it.
There are several videos with the RT1. One almost became stranded due to every station being out of service. He was able to plug into a 120V at a hotel for free. Currently if I wanted a road trip EV, I would not consider anything other than a Tesla.
I completely agree! Electric chargers are the backbone of EVs and their availability and reliability play a crucial role in the adoption of EVs. Without a proper charging infrastructure, owning an electric car becomes much less convenient. Manufacturers have to start recognizing this and start increasing reliability and reducing complexity. That's one main reason why I'd get a Tesla over other EVs any day, despite the cool features coming out with other brands.
@@johnpalmer5131 WTF No, as long you live Under 60 Miles of a populate area near charger. Most likely home in low population area have plenty of space to install a private Level 2 charger. Having a private chargers negates the need to use a Public charger for like 60 mile circumference. This is doable because the battery Range on modern EVs are soo good.
I don't think this is much of a manufacturers' problem but a regulation one. We need laws to standardize charging in every way, from ports to paying methods and access. Every single charger should be accessible to any vehicle and driver with just any already existing standard paying method (no registration/account needed). Would anyone accept that some gas stations were only accessible to people that were members of some service or owned a specific car brand?
I ordered Tesla because of their Suprercharger advantage BUT I fear the inevitable -> just wait until more superchargers start charging non-Teslas and more and more EV‘s start bottlenecking even Tesla’s supercharger network since charge point, EA and others are all broken. Tesla network already is getting crowded with teslas lined up in some areas. Try adding non-teslas to that line. A MASSIVE bottleneck is coming. And what about all the people who will charge at home at night? Eventually, it will be like millions of people attempting to run their high voltage clothes dryers all at night at the same time. TREMENDOUS strain on the grid that America isn’t built for. Can we say rolling blackouts? I can’t believe more isn’t being done sooner. Remember this post 5 years from now. Or sooner.
I was in the market for an electric car, but decided to rent one on vacation first to convince the wife. We were headed to Vail in January to go Ski'ing for her birthday. We rented a Model 3 in Denver. This is January, so it's about 20F, not the best for batteries. But the Model 3 was a long range with a full charge giving us over 300mi of range as calculated on the dash, and we only had 118mi to Vail. No problem, right? So we leave Denver airport, get on the highway, and engage autopilot. Things went well, except the range was crashing as we were driving. We input our destination (Vail, CO) as soon as we got into the car. The car knew where we were going, knew the ambient temp, knew the elevation gain, knew all this...and calculated that it had a 300mi range in these conditions for this route. As I'm sure you can tell, that range was wrong. But not a little wrong, it was wrong by an order of a magnitude. By the time we got to vail after driving 120mi from the airport to our resort we were showing only 24mi of range left. That sucks, but the resort has a charger. We get to the resort and their charger is broken. OK, not the end of the world, there are public chargers in Vail. I'll go top the charge up the following day (my wife's Birthday). Next day, we do fun things, and I remind her I need to go put some juice in the car. No problem, grab the car, head to the public charger, but wait a second. Just sitting over night my range decreased from 24mi down to 8mi. But that's OK, because the charger is just .5mi away. Get to the charger and every single one has a car parked at it, and out of the 6 chargers, only ONE of the cars is actually using it as a charger. The other 5 chargers simply have electric cars parked there using the charger as some sort of VIP parking spot. OK, I'll go another 2mi down the road to the other public charger. Get there, pull into the charger with 5mi of range left. This is not a Tesla supercharger, so I need the adapter. Where's the adapter? Well, they didn't put the adapter in the trunk on this rental. So I HAVE TO use a Tesla supercharger. OK, nearest supercharger is 18mi away, and I have 5mi of range. I call the help number for the rental, they assure me there is extra capacity and I can drive to the supercharger. So now it's over an hour into me just trying to put a charge in the car, on my wife's birthday, so we can drive to dinner for her birthday. I get in the car and start driving out of Vail to the nearest supercharger 18mi up the road, spend half an hour charging, then 18mi back, to grab my wife, and drive another . . . Yea, this was going to take a while. I get on the interstate and make it about 8mi, nearly halfway to the supercharger and the car dies. In the winter, at night, in the snow, on the interstate. Long story short, I sat there for 4hr waiting for a tow truck to come tow me to a supercharger so I could spend another 30min to charge up, so I could drive back to the hotel 30min away, so I could get back to the resort to my wife who is furious that her birthday dinner was ruined. Needless to say, the rental of the electric car didn't go very far to selling my wife on the idea of an electric car.
Many people don't seem to realise no matter how much infra is established according to number of EVs on road, recharging an EV will take time and it will never be as fast refilling a gasoline tank. And that time doubles and quadruples depending on the number of vehicles present there to charge. Many suggest installing charges at parking spots, which is a farce too. If you're at a mall with your ev trying to spend time for few hours, you have to charge you're ev for all those hours. Otherwise you cannot take that charging spot without blocking it for another EV, which is what you faced.
Im sorry for your trouble, I fan imagine how frustrating that must have been. But this is the state of EV now and it wont get significantly better anytime soon. One should not fall for the fancy gimicks they put in these cars and the marketing around that. Ask yourself what makes it better than a diesel car for your usecase. What problem does it fix for you.
I'm a 70 year old retired electronics engineer. One thing I learned early in my career was this ... electric/electronic is not the answer to everything. Take a clock for example. An analog clock can be set within seconds using one knob, but a digital clock can take several minutes using 3 different pushbuttons. Which do I prefer? The analog clock. And which is better for charging a car, a loose fitting nozzle that lasts almost forever and charges in 5 minutes, or an electric plug that has a useful life of no more than several thousand insertions and takes an hour to charge. The answer is obvious.
The strange thing I’ve noticed is that most people aren’t tech savvy-yes, even the ones who grow up with it. They just know how to use the apps they use daily. It doesn’t even matter if devs try to make the experience friendly for regular people because they barely even read the messages on the screen they just want to click away to the thing they want to do on the device
Glad you did a video on this. Shining the light on the problem, especially with your status will hopefully cause the various players to collaborate to fix the challenge. Hopefully you do more videos on the subject to keep the pressure up!
Easy to enforce with LAW. After all the .gov is making ecars law so wtf is this idiocy. EU has ordered usb3 for all phones so they can do it. We all want to make good deal out of this but turning the business week into a religious trek is just backwards.
100% agreed. Add to that that every fuel station has a roof, is brightly lit... at least here in Germany, most of the public charging ports are in the middle of nowhere, no roof, no lights, no snacks, not even a litter bin. You're usually quite a bit away from anything else, fully exposed to the elements...
I love my EV, but it's kind of a similar problem here in Norway because we have so many different companies that set up charging stations that all use different systems. At this point I think I have like 5+ charger apps on my phone. It's not a huge issue for me, but I can imagine that someone like the woman you talked about might find all of that really intimidating to get into especially if you're used to a gas car.
@@unlucky5442 Which only solves half the problem as charging networks like Rivian and Tesla would still be closed to their EV owners. I think J-1772, CCS1, NACS are all stopgap connectors. We need something better. CCS1 connector suffers for poor communication pin connections due to how the bottom DC pins are heavy and massive and cause the connector to torque downward and ever so slightly disconnect the top pins (J-1772 section where the communication pins are). Connectors with the DC pins in the middle are a better design.
100% spot on. 🎉 I have loved my EVs but, as an engineer, I can handle these issues. But buyers shouldn’t need tech support to do something this basic. Not ready for prime time!
@@jeremy-b honestly I love mine and wouldn't trade it in for any other type of car. But they are hitting mainstream and the charging infrastructure for anything other than Tesla is atrocious and confusing.
I'm so surprised how there are so many different charging techniques in use in America. Over in the EU it's basically all CCS2, I've never had to be concerned about a charger not matching my car. The only frustrating thing that is unfortunately true over here as well is the unknown and wide range of prices they charge per kWh. I recently just plugged my car in and got charged 1.09 EUR/kWh, which is roughly 3 times what I'm used to pay. It wasn't even a fast charger
I've noticed the exact same thing with the charging posts outside our office. They're the good kind with fast charging but at any given point about half of them actually worked. The worst part is that there's no way of knowing until you plug it in. We came up with a solution though. We duct tape a big black trash bag over the ones that doesn't work and this makes it very obvious to anyone looking at them. This in turn makes people call the company and they're forced to come out and fix them. Since we started bagging the posts things have gotten better.
@@codycast LOL, you stole my comment! I was going to say that you will start seeing black trash bags on all kinds of working chargers but they won't be broken, they are just being "reserved" for some selfish person.
THANK YOU! It warms my heart and soothes my soul to hear someone younger than me admit this. I consider myself a highly Tech proficient 65 yr old, and I have given up trying to plan on charging anywhere else but home. After owning a plug-in hybrid for about a year, I drive it in HEV most of the time. As much as I love driving in electric, I can’t recommend anyone get an all electric car for now or the near future. There are so many ways that I would have to change my life to accommodate the car and when you get to a certain age you realize that every minute is precious and I do not have the time or energy accommodate shabby engineering. I honestly feel like ev charging companies are just taking tax dollars and making back room deals to get stations up but don’t care at all if they actually work and rarely maintain them. Politicians talk all day about spending money on infrastructure but unless you enforce a basic standard it will never be mainstream. And I am just not into enriching the richest guy in the world to inflate his already voluminous ego.
Two things need to happen for sure… Better charging infrastructure and maintenance, and lower cost. Cuz like….. if I am able get a hybrid someday, I don’t want that hybrid nature to be ignored for its entire lifetime usage. I’d want one of those, because the gas powered part would help during the winter, while the electric powered part would help during summer. Even with how much more green electric cars are, those parts just end up becoming useless in terms of gas powered cars…. Because the infrastructure is bad. So we either improve everything to do with electric/hybrid cars…. Or make useful and reliable biofuel cars, so the use of normal fuel doesn’t build up and Impact the environment when everyone can afford a car again.
That the truth that all the eco warriors seem to ignore... Full EV 's are not practical for mass usage just yet. It's all marketing scam at this point.
Owning a tesla is like driving a cell phone. Owning & driving a car shouldn't be so complicated. All that tech is too complicated for simply driving a car & using basic features.
would you consider a video guide to the infrastructure available in the US? coverage, which cars connect with which stations, etc? we're looking to get an electric car next, but the infrastructure seems a scary mess to deal with
What you've described is pretty much the litmus test - not only for EV's but for most products that rely on newer forms of technology: if it doesn't work for Grandma (without significant explanation) then it hasn't been thought out well enough. It needs to be simple, obvious, and dependable.
I live in the greater Seattle area where there's an EV bubble and chargers are abundantly available. Even in this robust infrastructure I've encountered issues with chargers not working, confusing payment methods and even odd accessibility issues where public chargers have been in garages that're locked for the weekend. My first EV was a Ford Focus. When I recently bought a new car I went with a Tesla. A large part of that decision was knowing I'd gain access to a nationwide network of chargers that I can rely on. The MUCH longer range helps quite a bit too. Point is, I looked at a Kia Niro and part of the reason I passed on it was the bad taste the overall non-Tesla charging experience had been.
I live in Alabama, what are y’all talking about? 😂 There’s like two charger locations on all our highways as of now (haven’t looked in a long while as my horse and buggy just need grass and water to walk)
There is a book called, "The Design of Everyday Things." It essentially points out that many engineers don't design things with the end user in mind and of those that do, they don't know how. What usually determines how quickly a new technology becomes mainstream is how quickly those who know how to figure how to use it *_AND_* how to explain it simply to others start adopting the tech and providing feedback to the creator of said tech.
as a engineer i can tell you why: because its not your job and no one cares if you care. i am always asking for usability help and no one bothers. so i shit something that works well with bad usability, get my money and move on. realy annoying
Great book! This is why I think every executive of every company out there that makes automatic faucets for public bathrooms should have nothing but those faucets in their homes.
THANK YOU! This is the topic everyone should be talking about. We rented an electric car in France. When we picked up the car it only had a 50% charge. The first charger we found was broken. Before long we were limping from one slow charger to the next trying to figure out how to get each network to respond. After the first day, we had it down, but it was a bit stressful. Fast forward. Now we have a Lightning, and I find that I’m often fussing with the chargers. Ironically I was finishing up at a ChargePoint station and a Polestar pulled in. The driver flagged me down. Turns out she was from Mexico and had picked up the rental earlier that day. She couldn’t get the app to work and had been thwarted at another location. She was at 10% and had about 200 miles ahead of her that day. She offered to pay me cash and use my account. I was happy to help, but also worried about her travels in the coming days. It’s winter here in Vermont, and getting stranded in a rural road when it’s cold can be dangerous. I think that manufacturers need to make people watch a video like yours before they sell an EV. The inadequacies of the charging network are significant and I can only imagine how much worse it will be as more and more people get their cars.
hold up. you have to connect to your phone to charge? for a technology that is being pushed so hard they sure dont make it easy to use. I don't think I could ever switch honestly, I like simple tech. I drive an old subaru legacy manual 6 speed and it has everything I need and not much of what I don't need, I can even completely turn off traction control when I need to. I really dont want all the fancy stuff you find in new vehicals, there is no electric option for people like me that just want a reliable car without tech shoved in every orifice and there is absolutely a market for it. it just needs to stop, go, have heat for the winter and windows that go up and down. I really dont understand why they put so much extra electronics that end up wasting its primary energy source, seems counter productive
@@noitallmanaz funny enough my wifes cousin has his car at the shop for repair and booked a similar style rental vehicle (crossover) from enterprise. when he got there to get his car they said well we are out and all we have to give you is an electric whatever. Mind you he had to drive a distance to the dealership for these repairs and has no transportation out of the rental place he was at. For his driving needs an electric car honestly would have worked BUT he has no charging at his apartment complex, parents house or work. He had to swap it out at another enterprise rental in another city for a gas powered sedan. TLDR family member got an electric car rental because that's the only option they had.
You hit the nail on the head. We are still in the early days in the electric vehicle revolution but I could see the "infrastructure deficit" generating a lot of negative press and stories that circulate through social media that will in many cases prove to be true, and will scare off many potential buyers. Adapters are a poor solution to the problem of incompatible proprietary charger designs. There should be one or two standard designs like we now have for dispensing petroleum fuels.
They're not better for the environment the research is coming out about them now. Example Volvo state that if your using "renewable" energy the break even point on a electric vs petrol/diesel car would be 70,000 miles. This does not include battery replacement either. Both the creation of the batteries and dispose of them is terrible. However I don't want to beat the planet is dying blar blar. I want to do note that according to NASA the world is 40% greener than it was in 1980. There are also new ice caps forming and reefs are extending. I know Gretta and the WEF folks want everyone to believe were all doomed. We're not its ok.
@@serenitycoastUK No argument from me on THAT point! I know almost nothing about the upstream and downstream environmental impacts and appreciate that the full life cycle must be considered. An electric car is more than what shows up on your driveway. It is the immediate manifestation of a global scale machine that is pulling resources from thousands of virgin natural sources and moving wastes back into the ecosphere, much of that completely unaccounted for... (typing this on an equally wasteful piece of computer tech).
I've had trouble with a few electric car chargers, but then again, the same is true for good 'ole gas stations: Pumps that randomly don't pump, nozzles that are incompatible with motorcycles (that really is a thing, happens quite often actually), broken credit card readers, stations that refuse to dispense fuel after 10PM because, err, people don't drive at night?! People somehow expect new technology to be perfect, while no one will scream on social media about a broken gas pump.
That's what you people deserve for buying a toy car. Maybe if you weren't a leftoid with mainstream news of repeat you'd know what the people you call biguts & far-right are talking about. But now you want gas stoves too but you'll just call them names.
@@serenitycoastUK yeah look honestly it's understandable the environmental impact of the resources used in battery making for EV, but the thing is a lot of the anti- climate change people I'm assuming yourself included always fail to come up with a solution towards the depletion of oil, coal or any finite resources, I myself don't really care about climate change but not offering a better solution towards and it and basically saying let's double down using fuels that will run out isn't that helpful is it? EV are definitely not perfect but it's a step in a better direction
Well said, and I think a lot of people interested in making the switch from ICE to EVs have no idea what the charging infrastructure experience is like. The user experience clearly needs to be improved and standardized.
Please make a video about the chargers and the infrastructure!!! It's part of the story and completely part of the tech world! You guys make great vids so I KNOW the MKBHD team can make an amazing (like always) video about the chargers that let the electric cars exist...
I live in Sydney Australia and it’s the same deal here. Our state government is pushing forward and ramping up infrastructure however what’s out on the streets and on the highways is barely adequate. I am fortunate enough to have installed a home charger and driving my Cupra Born EV in the city just makes sense, the car is brilliant around town.
I was in my parents driveway yesterday showing them my new R1T I picked up over the weekend. My parents have seen many of my electric cars and enjoy them. Their neighbor happened to pull up and my dad was telling her to take a look. She replied “Let the young people figure this out, I still need my gas”. I think this speaks volumes to the divide. I love figuring this all out. Other folks just won’t deal with it.
Excatly I have a Polestar 2 and my parents like the car but the whole charging and checking battery and using regen is nothing they even want to think about. Until fast charging speeds can go sub 30 minutes to full and universal access electric cars will stay a young persons thing.
@@jonathanjones7681 My dad is sold on it, just not his neighbor. We took a 2000 mile round trip journey in my Model S Plaid and he's told many people it was super easy. I just plugged in the address, we drove for an average of 3.5 hours at a time, and charged about 15-25 minutes each stop. That was enough for us to get out, get more to drink, something to eat, and then get back on the road. People are surprised we were able to make the journey.
Hell, I’m young and I don’t want to deal with it. I still want an engine that makes noise and an exhaust. Having gas being super easy and quick to fill up is a huge bonus. It’s like Tesla invented a problem to solve LOL
Dude, 100%. As a gearhead, I love technology and anything related to cars. I'm excited to add an EV to my garage, but I tend to road trip often. I would hate to deal with less than reliable charging stations.
I don't own an electric car - however this video is on point. Hopefully, addressing bad experiences can lead to innovative ways for solve this issue. Everyone is not a "techie" or early adopter. My wife wants an electric car but she can't keep her phone charged. I can't imagine how to explain all this to her, so she can work-around a problematic situation in the video. You got a new subscriber here.
It’s also about - Fuel bowser time VS Electric bowser time. Fuel takes about 10mins as we know, also bowsers are well kept or else the gas station is losing money, also the gas station operators or owners are there to protect bowsers etc, you get the picture. Plenty of Electric bowsers are out in the open exposing the customers & equipment to the elements of weather, vandalism is easy as no operators are permanently at Electric bowsers. Personally for me, l’m waiting another 10-15 years longer to consider an Electric vehicle, until all these issues that get raised about Electric cars & charging them are all ironed out. I will be continuing to use my diesel vehicle as diesel will be around for another 2-3 decades because of the transport trucking industry. If trucks can’t get around in a timely manner, consumer goods will start going through the roof if trucks are electric & take longer / much longer to deliver their loads.
@@romansummers119 Exactly this. Most people who buy electric cars just charge it every night in their garage. Early electric cars didn't much range, but nowadays, they have like 250 miles of range. It's an amazing city car. I don't want to take it on a road trip - I just fear the hassle.
@@texchu8331 If you are wanting to do road trips, Tesla is the best option because frankly Supercharging is awesome and there are adapters for just about everything out there now, including CCS in the near future. Electrify America is getting a lot better, I've seen enough videos now that show people doing impromptu cross-country road trips in ID.4s and the like to have some hope for the future. In the end, though, most people will never need to plug in anywhere but home now that we have hit 250-mile range vehicles. I'm in Seattle and I can drive all the way to Portland or Vancouver on a charge and then charge at a hotel overnight or supercharge and keep going. I can make it to Spokane with one 20 minute supercharger stop. It's not actually much of a hassle to deal with the charging stops because it takes about the same amount of time to supercharge as it does to take a bio-break and get something to eat (or if you aren't hungry, you can watch a half hour of Netflix or some RU-vid videos while you wait), so unless you are one of those insane people who pee in a bottle and drive straight through it's no big deal.
I rented a car to drive from SEA to Vancouver BC, and they upgraded me to a Subaru Solterra. It was my first EV drive, so I thought it was cool at the time. Drove up without any issue, and parked at my hotel with maybe 1/4 charge left. However, I failed to confirm if my hotel had chargers. It did not, so I couldn't charge overnight. Tried to charge the next day, but most (if not all) charging stations around me were Tesla-only. Leaving the next afternoon, I decided to forego the urban chargers, and tried to find something on the way back to the US border. Keep in mind, I'm down to 1/8 charge, so I'm trying to stay close to the freeway. All I found was a slow charging station with a 1-hour limit. It charged the car back to 1/4 full. Decided to head for the US border, figuring there'd be better charging infrastructure in Ferndale/Bellingham. Thankfully I was right, and it only took 30 mins to charge to full. Lesson learned - EV's are great, but they require some thought and foresight to make up for the lack of infrastructure. Until charging access, dependability, and usability become as easy as filling up at any gas station, there will be frustrations.
This next to the ranges are the biggest pains and deal breakers to me, if this is a pain to you in the USA, imagine how the story is in countries like Costa Rica. I'll stick to gas until this kind of experience is not so common anymore, and being honest it can take several years to get fixed. Great video! ✌
@@Neojhun I mean, Costa Rica is a country known for green and renewable energies, but creating infrastructure for electric cars is not easy, no matter where in the world. There are a lot of interests and politics in the middle.
I live here in Costa Rica, and they are expanding electric chargers like crazy. Also, the distances here are very, very small. You never really drive longer than 200 or MAYBE 300km in a go (since the average cross-country driving speed is aprox. 60 km/h).
@@MoritzvonSchweinitz I also live here in Costa Rica, IMO the expansion of electric chargers is happening mostly in the cities, take a ride a little far and there's a high probability that you will need to wait a good amount of time for a slow charger to be available, and crossing your fingers that the only charger available in miles around is fully functional. Don't take me wrong, I love everything around EVs, but I believe that before the migration to electric cars, a sustainable infrastructure must exist first, and it doesn't seem that we as a country have a plan for it.
I am 73 yrs old I bought a new model 2 years ago I have put 50,000 mi on it since. I charger mostly at home at 48 amps 220. If you can’t charge at home I wouldn’t get an ev. However on trips I have had no problem with Tesla chargers. I take many long trips with my wife it is cheap entertainment. Once going 4000 miles, In one week, round trip to the Grand Canyon. Home charging is really cheap and may save you $20,000 over the life of your Tesla over gasoline costs and another $4000 on oil changes. I charged once with a CcS adapter and had no problem. I believe people don’t see many Tesla chargers but 95% of the time ev owners charge at home with statistic only 5% as many chargers are need compared to gasoline pumps. The car tells you where they are.
This is spot on. Bought a 2017 Nissan Leaf about 6 months back. I live in the North West area of Vermont which is about as population dense as it gets around here. There's 4 different quick charging providers with something like 3 or 4 different quick charging speeds, depending on which specific station you're at. Each charging station has different methods of payment. Some use tap to pay, some need an account, others let you use a guest account, some have an RFID card you can order. None of them use the same types of payment systems and only about half let you use tap to pay. Most of them only offer 50 KW charging speeds, so if you have a large battery pack you're better off just getting charged up enough to drive to the nearest high powered quick charging station. If you're doing this during rush hour, you'll have to wait as many of the stations have just one charging station. Also, almost all of the quick chargers have two adapters (CCS, ChadEMO) but only charge one car at a time. I've had to learn, and I've told more than a few people, "No, you can only charge one car here at a time." This is ON TOP OF all of the other issues you've just mentioned. Some of the double stations will just have one working. Some will only charge at half rate. Cars will charge at different rates depending on SOC and SOH. Some have issues with one or more payment methods. My most recent issue that almost stranded me was a frozen level 2 charger. Literally the connecter was frozen. While I could force it onto the car (which was a bad idea, I just chose to do it anyway) I couldn't pull it off because the button was frozen solid. After 10 minutes of mild panic I decided to just get the extra windshield wiper fluid I had and carefully poor it over the connecter. Luckily those are rated for everything but complete submersion and I was able to thaw it. If you're not tech savvy and don't have a reasonable ability to troubleshoot, I would not recommend an electric vehicle for you. This is not because of the cars, they're pretty dope, It's because of the charging infrastructure being held together with proverbial zip ties and twine.
or you just can install a charging station in you garage or your private parking spot and it will cost you like 2k us dollars because you buy it at a low cost because it will be slow and charge the car overnight
Here's an interesting one... since EV cars are NOT carbon neutral and require tons of 3rd world labor, and are going to be a total blight on disposal, if you ARE tech savvy, drive an ICE car and NEVER, EVER have a problem with it, because you are tech savvy and the technology is pretty solid, and you'll keep it well maintained. EV's are a scam.
YES! I hope more people make videos like this because the negative ratings in these charging apps aren't working lol. In California so many charging areas pop up on the map, but when you pull up they're broken 😩. So much anxiety when I first bought my EV.
I just made a video the other day about Electrify America - man is it awful, they are literally BRICKING EVs at this point - ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-TLrcnrcmmwc.html It's like a conspiracy at this point how bad they're making it for every EV except Tesla
I'm so glad more tech RU-vidrs are getting on top of this, like Out of Spec Reviews, who has almost totally converted his channel to covering the dismal state of non-Tesla charging in the U.S. This is going to be a major roadblock in the way of widespread EV adoption if Electrify America, EVGo, Chargepoint, and the others don't get their acts together fast. Two years from now, there will be many more affordable EVs to purchase, and tens of thousands of non-techie first-time owners are going to raise hell when they find out what a crap shoot it is to find reliable charging on the road.
Fan of Out of Specs and what concerning is that when they were in Norway, non citizen can't use the higher rate chargers, so if you're a tourist you are stuff. ICE, the only thing you need to worry about is which nozzle to use. Pay and done.
I think EV's have peaked. Example: 3D movies and TV. Every five to ten years they make a push but they never last. EV's are not more convenient for consumers (that's a statement of fact) so until they become convenient, the average person won't spend the high price tag to buy one. That's my take.
You've nailed a core problem. I'll take it further. I have an ICE car and I have zero range anxiety. I don't even know what that feels like. It's not because my car can run forever - it's because I can go to any of literally thousands of gas stations and know with 100% certainty they will have the gas I need for my car that can be fed into said car with a standard nozzle. I don't need an app to buy it or a special credit card and I know I won't run into some store or restaurant that makes the gas station exclusive to shoppers. Moreover, it takes 6 minutes to 'recharge' my ICE car from 0 to 100%. So there's almost zero inconvenience. I can let the car get down to fumes and know there's no real risk. But there's more. "Just charge it at home overnight!" Love to except I, like 36% of all Canadians, live in an apartment or condo which does not provide power to each stall. Some have shared chargers, which is better - except that you've got ALL the other EV owners vying for access - but in my case it's moot - we have NO chargers. Ditto for people who have to park in the street. And don't even ASK how much it costs to get a private charger in buildings like this. Gas is cheaper. The EV mindset is very much the same as the Linux mindset: our preference is OBVIOUSLY better, so you should be glad to add more complexity and toss out your workflows to use our preference. And yes, doesn't work with EVs either. On the other hand, Paris has a new project to install chargepoints at every street parking spot in most retail areas of the city, Regardless of where you park, you can charge while parked. Not a perfect solution, but it's tailored to making the new EV owner's life easier, not harder and that's the *right* approach. Carrot, not stick.
This reminds me of having to go over to my grandma's house every time she wanted to check her email on her PC. Then she got a iPad and checking the emails was much easier to explain. The chargers need to get on that level
You and Kyle Connor from Out Of Spec need to continue to crusade this. People (governments, automakers) NEED TO HEAR THIS. Signed, a former EV owner who is very wary about buying another because of this very reason.
I had an non tesla event and loved the car but after one road trip was convinced to not get another ev for 10 years until the industry is stable. Tesla has its own issues not limited to being too expensive for mass market adoption, poor qc that people like to pretend doesn't exist and a design language that screams gimmick.
Rich Rebuilds did a video on this too. The EV industry is too reliant on home charging and needs to get more charging, but also make sure that they work and make it easy experience. Not everyone is going to be able to get by, if at all, charging at home. This is one of the things Elon understood with Tesla so he made sure the charging experience was seamless.
I don't know if you've seen, but... The Stradman made a video on this because he took a roadtrip to Moab, Utah in his Hummer EV and basically he was stranded. The chargers were broken. He and his gf walked like 13 miles in the freezing snowy night to a motel just because they couldn't charge the hummer.
I was on the fence about buying an EV. I took a road trip with some friends in 2 car. I rode with 3 others in a Tesla, the others in a van. A 6 hour trip for the van a nearly 8 hour trip for me (and other friends) in the Tesla. Van went from point A - Z, we of course had to hit a charging station and could not follow the same route. At our hotel the Tesla driver had to find a station to charge the car over night..... Charging stations need to be universal and plentiful or EV's will fail and fail soon. I just bought a Toyota Corolla Cross Hybrid. Same price range as the model 3. I did not even consider the Tesla or any EV. Considered other Hybrids.... I will consider again in 2030
Completely agree. I had a terrible experience myself recently in a similar vein where the chargers were working, but the queue was so long that I ended up missing my appointment. Even when everything is working, there's so few chargers (at least in Europe) that you might end up wasting half a day waiting for a spot. And you can't even walk away because they don't support proper in-app queuing, you have to stay next to them ready to pull in as soon as someone leaves or someone else might take your spot. Thankfully I don't need to interact with the public infrastructure much, IMHO if you can charge at home / work and almost never need public chargers electric cars are great. If you'd need to use public chargers more than a few times a year, do not buy an electric car yet.
I am charging at my own place, so generally not much issues. It is when I start traveling further than just 1 charge, that things get interesting. In those cases you rely on a fast charging point to work. When it doesn't, you could be stranded. So fully agree with your view on this. Greetings from Belgium.
So true. Infrastructure is extremely important. I have a 2023 Hyundai Ioniq 6 & installed a Chargepoint Level 2 charger in my garage - Hyundai gave me a free charger & $600 credit towards installation cost. Makes charging so easy, i never use public chargers anymore. I tried some public charging stations in the beginning, and its hit or miss if they work correctly. Even the Electrify America stations always have 1 or 2 units out of order. Some networks are good, some suck. We need better charging networks that are well maintained. And more charging stations along highways for travelers
I was about ten when my state started changing the gas stations to self service. My mom had spent all of the 1970s pulling into full service stations. One time we got stuck having to get gas at a self-serve station and I had to figure it out for her. She eventually got used to it but it took her a while and, for as long as she could, she'd still often drive a few extra miles to get to a full service station to avoid pumping her own gas.
We had the opposite experience. As we grew up with only self-service stations all our lives, we stopped for gas in Oregon on a cross country road trip and were confused as to why we were being yelled at for getting out and trying to activate the pump lol. As a naive 23 year old, I was unaware states with mandatory full service was even a thing.
This is wildly accurate. There's so much more to this issue too... charge-rates and charge-expectations are so confusing for unfamiliar people. It's almost as if you NEED to become technologically tangled to comprehend how, where, why to charge. This isn't really taught anywhere...
The issue in and of itself is not doing your research before diving into becoming reliant on the inferstructure and what-not. Like most things in life, you get the test before the lesson, but there's the internet among all things where a lot of this stuff is learned through other people's experiences primarily. Tesla specifically has been around long enough that info is out there on the web. If you're stuck needing to know what to do in the event that you're borderline stranded and simply do not know what to do, it's the user's responsibility beforehand to be aware of something that they're responsible for in case of an event. As far as faulty equipment, that's another story all by itself. Overall, it's not any huge difference between buying a farm tractor or buying a big rig tractor trailer. You may not know much up front but there's not a barrier or blockade preventing people from not being aware of what is vital and well needed to be understood in order to use said equipment, even if it's for a short time frame temporarily. It's happens to everyone at some point, but the issue is that the user typically skips out information that is available publicly. It is like complaining about how a changing a flat tire out to a spare tire. You don't have to be physically capable to do so on your own but having the equipment and the Intel of how changing one works is flat out better than just not knowing what to do or having to flag someone down to call a tow truck for you. The number amount of people who get cars these days, and then something goes wrong mechanically, and it's like they don't know anything. It's simply a choice self-made to not pursue the info that is widely out there. Women, on the other hand, know all too much about hair and makeup or during pregnancy all the know-how after birth what they should expect and do. What's the difference?
I'm a huge proponent of EVs, but I would not recommend them to my parents - and my dad is a software developer. My wife is fairly technically competent, and even she struggles sometimes with figuring things out. A few easy changes to make: 1. Require that if a charger is non-functional for whatever reason - it clearly displays a bright red "not working" light. If it's in use, have it pulsing green. If it's available, solid green. Let people report it via the network's app (slightly more difficult than having a button on the charger to report, but allows for better filtering of trolls.) 2. Require that all new chargers going in after 1/1/2024 support the CCS "Plug & Charge" standard by default. It exists in the spec, but nobody (except maybe Ford?) is using it yet. 3. Require CCS on vehicles produced after 1/1/2024 and that they also support Plug & Charge by default. 4. Heavily subsidize the installation of L2 chargers. Seattle does it for free (you just pay utility rates for electricity) on light poles if you don't have access to off-street charging at home. That program, but nationwide, with extra allowances for people who do have access to a garage. Is it equitable? In the short term, no, but in the long term - if it accelerates the transition to electrification, it absolutely is. 5. ...that's it. Is it perfect? No. But it's achievable and it solves the problem over the next 3-4 years instead of limping along for the next decade and falling short.
@analyticalmind4493 it never was bargain to begin with. At least not with the 100k dual motor S and X model cars costing 100k+ and not just that but who needs a new car these days costing over $60k that runs on only electricity and you barely can work on the car yourself. A bargain would be a car that you buy low budget and little to no maintenance but what maintenance there is, you can do it yourself. 98% of people can't work on Teslas in their own for simple things, like door handles, and with a 18k possible battery cost replacement potential, I'll never see it as a bargain. I bought mine because I simply wanted to try the experience. I own 4 other gas powered vehicles but I like my S model. It's not a cost savings by any bit unless you come from trading in a $100k Mercedes-Benz or something
