Just to be clear: I'm not saying they have been the meta this entire time, good IRCCM have been for the past like, 9 months. I'm just saying in terms of radar missiles 🙏
In BVR or what? Not much gonna change if the speed and tracking still goes for the R27. I don't know about the newer ones,but maybe the MICA will be the new meta,but it doesn't means that the R27 is rendered useless
Another point on the Datalinks; The R-27s are/were the only missiles with 'Reconnect_datalink' meaning you can fire them, completely shut off your radar, and then turn it on again later and have both the SARH homing AND update the Datalink. The Phoenixes by contrast do not reconnect to the Datalink if you ever lose track of the enemy they were targeting, no matter what.
Proposal for Germany: 1. Things that could be added to Germany: Panzerhaubitze 2000, Skyranger 30, Spähpanzer Luchs, Eurofighter prototype, MBB Lampyridae 2. Austrian ground sub-tree for Germany: Pandur 1 & 2 variants, including the Pandur 2 105mm, the ASCOD variants, with 30mm gun and guided missiles, or just a 40mm, 4K-7FA variants, SK 105 A1, A2, and A3 variants, Pinzgauer Mistral, Pinzgauer 106mm, Noricum SM-4, as well as some Swiss MOWAG variants Austria bought. For low-tier, we have: Steyr Prototyp, Steyr ADGZ, Austrian air tree for Germany: Saab 35 Draken, Saab 105Ö, Saab 29 Tunnan, De Havilland Vampire, De Havilland Venom, and a Swiss Pilatus PC-7. 3. Swiss ground tree for Germany: Various Swiss vehicles, plenty of light tanks, too long to write here. Swiss air sub-tree: Swiss F/A-18 Hornet (Which Germany desperately needs), Pilatus PC-7 (also owned by Austria), BAe Hawk, Milan, F-5, Mirage III, FFA P-16, DOFLUG D803 and D802, Venom, Vampire, Mosquito, EKW planes!
@@ratsaranstudio6391 Every engagement in this game (Air RB) is the furthest thing away from perfect conditions lol. Mostly under 500m except for a couple maps which put you at 2k, still not great. edit: accidentally said km instead of m lol
@@ryanfreeman5083I think you forget the R27ER still outranges these first gen fox 3s. Keep coping though you Russia players have the best missiles in the game and are still crying.
Allot of people saying "Nah, R-27ER will be better anyway because it has more range" have completely missed the point. It's not about range anymore. That's no longer your primary metric for a missile being better. These new Fox-3's that are coming have almost everything BESIDES range over ER (acceleration too, but the gap is smaller). The addition of an active seeker already opens the door to tactics you just straight up cannot do with Fox-1's. You just flat out have more options along with a missile that has more than enough range itself. That and them being even more maneuverable means you can take even crazier close-in shots than you could with ER. To think ER will still dominate in the face of such capability is straight wack
what will change is the efficacy of the gripen and other planes that mostly rely on fox 2s. the strategy of "orbital striking" will be a lot less effective now that many more radar missiles will be in the air. staying on the deck will be more meta than ever and there people are a lot more aware of incoming fox 2s. since we arent getting the gripen e yet either, it will still only have 6 missiles and will likely fall further from the meta. but honestly that plane has been on the decline lately as despite is massive overperformance, i dont see gripen players doing particularly well anymore. maybe thats because after all the initial hype surrounding the gripen wallet warriors flocked to sweden and subsequently made the teams a lot worse
Honestly the fact that more people are going to have to counter harder to counter radar missiles is going to outdate them in terms of how the fames played completely
I will never forget that time I locked something on my F-14A's TWS, firing it while thinking "How the hell is he flying towards me at such a low speed?" And then the killfeed revealing it to be an Me 264. Oh so "funny" indeed.
Yes it's exactly about being hard to fly near ground and nothing to do with advantage over sparrows to the degree of complete inability to fight back in bvr.
Can't wait to still notch missiles while maintaining lock in the 29SMT because 90 degree radar (swivel/gimble/whatever is the proper term is) angle is highly amusing.
@@Epic_candleexactly,you see gijian doesnt add shit in a timline order like they should,thats why the US severly under performs the way it does,the f15 should have been added when they added the first mig29 and the f15c should have been added with the su27 and grippen with aim9x and later aim7 variants,this next patch introducing the fox 3s should introduce the superhornet su27sm and gripen C they purposely add the american rival later to “ballance” the game
Welcome to the new meta where lots of players are gonna think they're F14s with 6 long-range ARH missiles even though Gaijin said they're meant for medium ranges.
Most maps airfields are close enough together that you're well inside the WEZ of an AIM-54 by the time you're up to speed. And most of the time, people are throwing out phoenixes at 30-50km if they want them to hit. I wouldn't expect the difference in range of an AIM-54 and say an AIM-120 to matter that much unless we get some seriously massive maps in future.
I don’t think it will be. The 27ER is faster than a majority of the ARHs in ranges of about 20km (current effective range of the ARHs that are not the phoenix). It is the end of the ERA for Sparrows though because the Aim-120 is an upgrade in every metric. Sparrows failed to joust with the 27ER in almost every scenario except for early launches, now 120s can go toe to toe with them
@@lightningstrike5024 cuz in terms of gaijin they sus... 7m and 54 on long-ranges are going to miss ecc ecc...7f/m are even slower than their soviet opponent.
@@lightningstrike5024I would agree that the Aim-54s are quite good at what they do, but you lose me (respectfully) with the Aim-7Ms. I would say they are one of these worst SARH in the game at this moment because of their likelihood to just give up on tracking six seconds off the rail. They were so (and still are) bad that people pushed Gaijin quite a lot on the forums to add the Aim-7Ps just because that would give the US a datalink capable missile. They didn’t (womp womp) and Gaijin slightly improved the tracker and the time allowed between loss of lock but they are still bad. I’d rather use an Aim-54 at medium range than a 7M any day.
@@lightningstrike5024aim54 does have potential to outrange but is easier to dodge at those ranges, sparrow does not have the energy to compete the archer (r27) at extreme ranges, but within 25km the sparrow is very adequate, and can push further if launched from high speed and alt
There never was a [insert any radar missile] era. As long as one's invulnerable to any radar missile just by lawn mowing, there will never be an [insert any radar missile] era. Thanks for coming to my TED talk.
Yeah people have been crying about the r27er, but with SARH, positioning is king. if you're on the deck, and the dude jousting you isnt, it doesnt matter how good your missile's acceleration is. The aim7F/M is nuts, and so is the 530D. as long as you have better position.
I’m so excited for this new flanker and I honestly pray to the snail that it does get added, and I feel like ER’s will still be very useful especially with the R-77, could do some interesting combos.
It's only been recently added to the Su-30(SM2) and other carriers are MiG-31, Su-35, and Su-57..... But yea, those planes will definitely take some time to add
R37 is no where near as good as you think it would be Its basicly longer range aim-54 with even less G's and for most part not that faster cuz hypersonic part is only for like 8 km altitude and above
Dunno. Early Fox 3s dont have that long range. Besides that, Fox 3 doesnt necessarily outvalidate a Fox 1, it allows for new tactics (multiple target engagement for example) but it doesnt necessarily outplay the SARH missiles.
@kenoby2330 lock angle is a thing, ARHs does benefit from maintaining lock. Fox 3s normally activate their own radar once within a certain range of the target which is either told by the aircrafts radar when to activate, or if there is no lock maintained, it will activate when within parameters based on the INS system of the missile. Edit: fixed a mistake.
Fun fact, fox 3s will still be superior to this fox1s Because you can launch and go defensive Meaning you can force enemy to go defensive and you can reengage far sooner
I feel I am still going to carry 2 R-27ERs on the new Su-27SM, they will have a place probably in the 7-10 km range due to the insanely good acceleration
I mean they’re still good for further ranges than that, these early stage Fox 3s aren’t phoenix missiles that will be smiting players on the other side of the map Until later variants arrive
hey, just some precision about the MICA and the mirage 2000 ! The Mirage will actally have the same load as the F15 (IRL is has 8 hardpoint that can have the MICA but only 6 were showed in the dev server (i think it's only because every others planes except the J8 had 6 missiles), and even if they only give him 6 MICA he can still take a Magic 2 on this missing hardpoint) and the MICA has a range comparable to the R77 and the early's AIM120C of 80Km, with he's great acceleration and burn time, i think he will be able to make long range shot like every others missiles (sorry for my english, it's not my main language :) )
I'm pretty sure they can only do 6 missiles because of the firing control system, not 100 percent sure. Either way, MICAs max range should be about the same yes, but kinematically it's rather light so won't maintain its speed that well after burnout most likely. We'll have to see how it goes! Also don't worry, your english was perfectly understandable :)
@@hemendraravi4787 where did you saw that ? im pretty sur il already saw a mirage with 8 MICA, and even if i'm wrong i don't see why he couldn't take more that 6 missiles
Cant even remember the last time i got killed by R27R/ER except for getting 3° party while going vertical on ACM...the ppl that complained about the R27ER will still complain about R77/AIM120 wtver and they probably will fix that multipath since smin already said its the way it is for "balance" (killing BVR),will be fun watching those ppl that were handheld by it getting fucked with their non existent knowledge
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Content creators and the playerbase at large that have been asking for smaller matches at top tier are in for a shock as we get planes that can carry 8, 10, 12 ARH missiles. If 16v16 furballs are too chaotic for player skill and dogfighting tactics to work, I really don't see how going down to 8v8 with planes that can chuck better and better missiles at eachother is going to help. I think a lot of WT creators are going to 180 on their stance in the coming few updates.
R-27ER was given because they've taken the R-73's from Mig-29 initially after teasing it in the trailer. That wasn't an "overreaction" it was just a compromise. Not only the 23ML premium teams were the issue. You forgot to mention that at that time Soviet jets were lacking SARH missiles in quantity compared to the US and clones. Top tier Soviet jets only got two SARH missiles however US ones got several jets in the matchmaker with ability to carry up to six SARH missiles. This was the real purpose of adding the 27ER
Lee do you think gaijin is aware that the AAM-4A shouldn't have a launch (and potentially even track) warning? cause like... if they have it like that in game...
@@GeneralLee2000 AAM-4 uses (just like the Pantsir's missiles) command guidance via J/ARG-1 transmitter, combined with the F-2s AESA, its completely silent on RWR until active phase, there won't even be a ping from the F-2s radar, since AESA can create variable frequencies inside the radar band so it can hide as noise (though this might only apply to most western Radars, as there is not much info on how eastern AESAs work (or even exist in case of China))
an 11.3 cannot even go against the 12.7's lmfao. What you talking about? These new jets should be 13.0 so there is no possible way to face them unless your squad mate plays one.
The EM is still a SARH most likely, just with a seeker for low altitude over the ocean. The EA is an active missile but it wouldn't shock me if either of them have home on jam capability? Fully passive though you're probably thinking of the R-27EP, which is basically an ER with an anti-radiation seeker. It couldn't lock onto fighter radars though, it could only target AWACS
They dont. The EA is active radar homing just like the R-77, and the EM is just an EA with better range and i think better seeker. The passive seeker one is the R-27P and EP, which act like anti-radiation missiles but for air to air.
Aim-120A is going to get absolutely outclassed by every other fox-3 coming to the game, make that make sense... 1992 era r-77 and the US gets an aim-120 from the 80s when early aim-120s have about the same range as an aim-7F. It's so unfun and boring to get new toys, but have it constantly get middle of the pack, or extremely gapped missile tech in comparison to what other nations get, how is it anywhere near balanced when a thrust vectoring ARH missile is coming out and I basically get a fire and forget aim-7F
@@grahh7234 Hey dummy, you don't need a test server to accuractely compare an early era aim-120, to a missile developed ten years later with better, more modern tech. It simply outperforms aim-120A's ( the missile we had in the first test server months back)... No need to be an asshole, not complaining, all I did was just bringing up valid criticisms, why is the US getting the shit end of the stick when it comes to the most advanced weaponry to come to the game.
I hate sparrows being too unreliable in hitting their targets. If aim7f/m and r27er were performing close to each other in terms of a hit rate, it would've been possible to do bvr stuff in, say, f15. But with more than 50% of sparrows going to chaff while r27s being incredibly hard to notch there's just no way to get high alt kills if you don't carry the ERs. Every time i take my SU up high and find any guy suffering and being unable to compete, it's an f15/f16 trying to do bvr stuff
R27 will lose its spot as top dog, but as you say, the missile is better in range and acceleration. To be honest i still anticipate the r27 being better in every mid-short range scenario. War thunder meta doesnt lend itself to the defensive play fox 3s allow, and that means most players wont go defensive. I expect to see many kill trades where people die to an r27 and the other guy dies 4 seconds later to a fox 3. Personally i was actually fine with the idea of americans getting fox 3s first, and russians later, because in my dcs experience the r27er is actually a worth adversary to an aim120c, much less the 120a or the sparrow, but for some ungodly reason they put the er in to patch out the russian skill issue. Alas, i certainly dont mind the symmetrical approach. In fact im just surprised they didnt do it sooner.
R27ER will always be good. You don't always want to fire and forget your missiles. It's cool to have, but without proper guidance from the aircraft it has a high chance to miss specially with gaijin nerfing the fox 3s. If and when that happens, the ER will reign supreme again
The Russian government literally pays gaijin to positively represent their hardware. This is why gaijin is headquartered in London. The famous tax haven for Russian oligarch companies and propaganda businesses
@@justintvinhd Gaijin is headquartered in Budapest, and they are probably scamming the russians given the awful flight performance of the MiG-29 and Su-27, aka Russia's premier airframes
I personally don’t think it will be the end, but it might start to fade away. The R27ER I think will still be better than AMRAAMs and other Fox-3’s. The real nerf is the fact that now aircraft can launch their missiles and defend while you (The R27ER player) has to maintain lock.
There was a time when the ER’s weren’t OP. It’s funny I actually had an argument with a guy saying how the sparrow could reasonably compete with it. And then they buffed the ER and it hasn’t looked back since. I can’t remember exactly what they changed but after that change the difference in performance was nuts. I think it will be the one missile that can actually keep up. All the other Fox-1’s aren’t fast enough to allow you to actually attack or defend against Fox-3’s. The sheer speed and distance the ER has will make it the only Fox-1 that can joust against them. BUT it will still come with the risk of needing to fly in the general direction of the enemy, which leaves you vulnerable to Fox-3’s. At long range it will have a chance. At medium range it will be a big gamble. You can launch and the missile might get there first. But even if you kill your bandit, their fox-3 doesn’t need them alive to track you. Meaning it might result in a trade. And at close range it’s most certainly a trade. The missile ends up going really fast but missiles like the early amraam accelerate similarly quickly meaning at close range even if you land your hit that fox 3 is coming at you like a bat out of hell. You wont have time to dodge. Overall I think it will be a great missile and will continue to get kills against people flying high that aren’t paying attention. But in the close game flying lower to the deck. The Fox-3’s are going to do better. And that’s with multi pathing, which they might remove.
Bro it's not that hard to counter the pantsir, I use that thing constantly and all you have to do is use Chaff to fuck the Passive Radar and go high as you can, the radar on the pantsir can't go that high so once you go high enough, the Tracking radar won't be able to keep lock, now unless it's a console player, they can just use the target tracking feature and not even use the radar, and at that point, you're fucked. So to beat a Pantsir, go high, or dive faster than a fucking mole in sand
@@christianmarthinsen1588 you really don't, typical mavericks on an A-10A do just fine, I play both the pantsir, and the A-10A, it's not that hard to kill a pantsir lmao, just harder to survive
i believe the er is going to be the best missile in terms or range for a while even after this early arh missile addition. the r77 is going to be a filler between the long range of the er and the short range r73.
Tbh I don't see this making a big difference. It's basically still gonna be the exact same thing, the missiles just aren't gonna be called R-27ERs anymore.
Watch altitude and speed. Also do not have your jet sideways and pull down or up, that will also rip the wings. The su-27 breaks its wings VERY easy if you go over 1400 below 500 meters. Same with the Mig 23. You have to watch and see HOW you are breaking the wing and come up with ways to not do that.
its an IRCCM meta the f-16c and grippen are the 2 best planes and thye both carry either 6ir or 5ir 1 radar it just not a radar meta when sitting on the deck is this effective
@@Epic_candle it wont. If you shoot and turn around before the missile goes active you essentially wasted a missile, and even if it does go active, if the enemy hugs the ground it was once again wasted. If you get in a joust with a Su-27 or MiG-29 the R-27ER will probably hit you first and you just trade in the best case scenario. Nothing really changes apart from America having more radar missiles on planes now
except R27ER is still kinetically better than some of the active radar missiles sure you cant fire and forget but if someone's high, their chances of defeating AMRAAM might be higher than that of R27ER because once the missile is defeated, thats done and gone whereas R27ER can just reacquire with a lock, which is extremely easy to do with soviet radars and HMD.
the r27er will still dominate over all active radar missiles for the sole fact it's hypersonic (because it combines the start booster and sustainer horsepower in the first stage)
@Skoodelly mine do? Pretty easy to get them up to mach 4.5 when lofting from 10km alt and mach 1 launch speed. Occasionally, I get launches at 11km and mach 1.2 ish, and those go up to like mach 4.6-4.7
The average speed an ER will get to in a match is about mach 4 to 4.5. I saw Aim-120A's on the dev getting to an average of mach 3.5 to 4. That gap ain't that drastic. Besides, that ER needs an STT lock all the way to impact. An Aim-120 does not. Fox-3's give you way more options and flexibility than you'd otherwise have. To say ER will dominate off of range alone completely misses the point.
Im just interested in seeing if planes like the tornado f3 and the adv are going to get or nit grt the fox 3s considering they cayy and have used aim120s and other types of fox 3s
I do think the R27ER will not be as strong as it was, I don't think that it will ever be fully obsolete, though. The engagement ranges in War Thunder, are just to small.
@@norinco8724 You're either stupid or lying to yourself. The ERs and r73s, the pantsir, the amazing all premium 10.0 lineup with 2000s technology. Thermals on T-80s and T-72s that never got them, weapon test beds that aren't even in service yet added as "legitimate vehicles". That's just the positives for Russia. Now don't even get me started on gaijin regularly gimping other nations vehicles and ignoring factual, technical documents that support opposing arguments to it, sketchy volumetric ballistics that act in favor of Russian MBTs because of their externally mounted ERA and all the extra shit on their hulls.
The two questions I'm interested in are whether Snail will fix the FMs of MiG-29s and Su-27s, and whether to all R-27s will be added the ability to guide the missile in TWS.
@@ML_Tachanka they might because fox-3s for everyone evens the playing field so they might not need to gimp the flight performance anymore. But idk thats just me hoping
@@nymeric5833 It depends on how people react to it, and by 'people’, I mean those who pay the most. If they are upset, then Gaijin will listen, so that they keep paying. After all, we are talking about a company, and a company's first priority is money.
its not the end quite yet dont forget its still the best or one of the best semi active none the less.. do i think that that the active will do better? depending on their performance yes somewhat its no the end of the r27er era just yet it will all depend on the performage of the missles that they are adding.. also tip the r27er can be launched at 30-35 km at about 6-10 alt feet. its still one of the fastest missles welll at least in terms of memory. but i do think they will not perform the best in the game after the update def i agree either way it will catch people off guard when a r27er kills them even with them using active radar missles
Maybe they will actually make the 27 accurate and make it so it doesnt burn both engines at the same time. Because it shouldnt accelerate nearly as fast as it currently does.
nearly 2 years overdue... Hell all gaijin had to do to reduce the bs of this meta wouldve been to add the AIM-7MH or 7P because, as far as i'm aware, those have datalink while keeping similar if not exact ranges of the usual AIM-7M. But no they didn't even add that, instead they gave the AIM-7M and didnt actually change jack dick about it, just a borderline copypasted AIM-7F. And now there's so many SARH missiles that will be wasted even if they end up being added to the game because nobody will ever use them, because ARH simply exists. They're just better missiles in every single way.
We supposed to feel sad? These BS missiles have been ruining the game just like what the f14 did. F14 update ruined toptier completely and I am glad we got pass that update. Same goes for r27 and r73
In the last test server, the R-27ER was held to actually be better than any of the Fox-3's. The Fox-3's hit the ground more than the R-27ER (compared to the Sparrow in game the R-27ER forces you to have to fly lower and even then it can still hit 50% of the time, the Fox-3's hit the ground like the Sparrow or any Fox-1 other than the ER). Now this guy is talking about the ER is better in performance against the Fox-3's, and in game he's right however irl it would be wrong. It's no secret the R-27ER is overperforming (the R-27ER did have the speed and acceleration like in game however it could barely turn due to it's high speed leading to honestly an easy evade), and in just pure manuverability the R-27ER irl was a bad missile and this isnt mentioning its limited range in comparison to even an Aim-120A. Now he also talked about the R-27EA being as good or better than the Aim-120C-5, and that is wrong too. That missile ran into the same problems as the ER, along with that only 1 Fox-1 acually held a candle to the Fox-3's. With how the ER performs in game is very comparable to another Russian missile, the R-30. This missile was the missile that went up against the Aim-120A and for all intents ans purposes performed very similaraly to the Aim-120A in terms of range and manuverability however this required you to hold lock like an Aim-54 compared to the fire and forget missile we use today. The R-30 was a great missile and tbh if Gaijin wanted to put a missile in, that would've been the one for accuracy rather than the R-27ER (just use the same model for the ER on the R-30 and you achieve a pretty similar performance, maybe a slight buff but that would be it to make an R-30). So yeah, this "ER era" shouldn't have existed, its a cause of a major oversight by Gaijin on what speed does to a missile and its turning capabilities.
Y'all celebrating but miss that what's to come is very likely to be worse. Like 3.7 and 8.7 for Ground RB, 10.3 may be become the sweet spot for Air RB going beyond which is unreasonable.
Honestly this makes me really sad I want Fox 3 but my favorite plane, the F14 is just going to be so outclassed now, honestly is gonna kinda suck Though i do wonder, would it be possible to add the AIM 152 Missile? It was pretty much a upgraded 54. Sadly it was never truly finished but it would make the F14B be able to atleast keep up a little longer with the new meta since AIM 54s still dont do as well as they should IRL.
Nothing to be sad about yet. R-27ER would be better then both R-77 and AIm120, so only french are real threat (and were for some time, magic 2 is just OP).
When they were testing the ARH I did a few tests to see if you could wait until 20 miles, fire them at a few targets, and peel off to the airfield. Not a single one ever hit. Not the Aim-120, R-77, or the Micah. I never got hit either. All of the targets just kept flying straight as well, none defended. They also had this horrible tendency to wobble until they were swinging back and forth. Hope they fixed that. Accelerated too slowly, lost speed too quickly, rarely ever tracked a target. Hope they fixed that too. The range was barely better than the top SARH and IR missiles already in-game. They were just a big mess. They seem super cool and all but I see them ending up another Aim-54. Some people use them to try and meme, but most people stick to mostly fox-1 and 2. I don't see anyone carrying more than 2 after the hype dies down.
