Don't forget, due to the FAA's restrictions on medications for antidepressants or anxiety disorders being potentially career ending delays or restrictions for pilots and air traffic controllers, both groups are significantly under-reporting issues at the workplace.
Yep... if you so much as breath any issues you'll have your wings taken. Then, if you want them back, you have to go to a HIMS and put your own money up to convince people you're "normal". Absolutely fucked. Can't even be upset for normal shit like... a death in the family... for more than like 5 minutes.
This seems like a ridiculous policy. Now sure, if someone starts a new medication, maybe they should take some time off and check that it's not causing cognitive impairment. But once they adjust to the medication, it's entirely possible it will lead to improved performance. These things should be tested methodically, not prohibited by unscientific knee-jerk responses.
Ronald Wilson Reagan, 666, therefore Ronald Reagan is the devil. Man, the Boondocks was very funny at times, but I don't watch it because it is full of dirty jokes. I wish there was a version of the Boondocks which portrays all the stuff about race relations and black culture without all the sexual stuff, but it is an American cartoon unfortunately.
Medically retired controller here. If any CPC's are watching this, it's not worth it. They will literally bleed you dry, and not even think twice about it. Y'all hold some of the most power in this country, you could bring the economy to its knees if you decided enough was finally enough. I say it's damned time, before we have bodies raining out of the sky because it let some billionaire get another tax break and buy a second yacht.
It's a golden handcuffs issue. An FPL with 20 years experience can make pretty decent money but has no skills transferable to other industries. It sucks.
Again, unions. You are literally the backbone of the most important transport mode. If you seriously demand better circumstances, they will have to listen. Which is why you need unions so that any strike actually strikes hard@@BravoCharleses
When looking at the money we are already spending on everything, more money for the atc program is a drop in the bucket. It isn't a tax break problem, it isn't a money problem, it's a govt inefficiency problem. You know the rules, can't start after 30, cant work past 56. Pilots earn twice as much, work only 1000 hours a year, no minimum age much lower, max age much higher, the private sector values them. The govt doesn't buy votes by fixing a problem that most people are oblivious to. Your eat the rich comment is talking out your ass.
@@growlith6969 Who the hell do you think buys the government in the first place? The wealthy do all they can to hamper the government at every turn, and since we have legalized bribery in this nation it works every time. I've seen what privatization does from the inside, it's a total cluster fuck. And trust, no amount of rhetorical handjobs you give them online will ever get you in their club. The rich get rich via exploitation, period.
depends on where they are working. I see $55k starting pay is common. I've worked as a pharmacy technician for about that much, and the pay was not worth the stress. I assume ATC is more stressful than pharmacy, and thus even less worth it.
Oh it's a whole lot more. And the saddest fact is the Reagan policies, laws, regulations, theories & legislations is what federalists, the right, the gop, republicans, libertarians, independents who lean conservative, evangelicals, Fox News, NewsMaxx, oann and conservatives fight&obstruct for til this very day; they just put new names on it but it's the same ole policies, laws, regulations, theories& legislations just in new lipstick.
Started the video and already knew that 'Reagan, that dolt (sorry village dolts, you do fine work)" would be an apt answer before completing. Halfway through, I was reaffirmed.
Fun Fact: The Reagan Administration still holds the all-time record for people who served and were convicted of felonies during their tenure. Yet, the American people voted for him twice, like turkeys voting for the Thanksgiving butcher!😢☮️
🦃s have way more brains than federalists, the right, the gop, republicans, libertarians, independents who lean conservative, evangelicals, Fox News, b**mers, NewsMaxx, oann and conservatives, don't insult 🦃s like that ‼️ B**mers as they watch Fox News/ NewsMaxx/ oann be like I'm $ struggling in my o** age, why is it like that? And no matter how many times you explain to them it's like that because you vote/elect for it to be &stay like that they still go out and vote for, elect, donate to, help to get elected/reelected, revote for, support and or reelect any federalists, the right, the gop, republicans, libertarians, independents who lean conservative, evangelicals and conservatives 😬🤔 It's like man after 44 long years you just refuse to ever learn huh ⁉️
I can remember back in 1982, while working for a liquor chain in Anchorage Ak, one of my coworkers had recently stopped being an air traffic controller, he had made me aware of some of the challenges that they were faced with, I'm appalled that in 42 years it has not been rectified and only gotten worse.
Government. As a private pilot, I can say they should self-fund airports with landing and parking fees. Hangar rent. Fuel sales, bunk rooms, showers, food, and what have you. The private business sector generally provides better service for the same or less price as government.
I already read the NYT article, so this wasn't news to me, but it's still horrifying that we allow a profession where an accident could result in a fiery ball of at least 100 dead people to be staffed like a Wal-Mart with the same levels of desperation and apathy. And while mental health standards should be high, I'd rather my ATCs be on 60mg of Cymbalta than six shots of Captain Morgan.
@@Indigoporcelain As someone who has had both, you're delusional for thinking that. One is an SNRI that for the most part, levels you off and is part of a process to help with depression. The other can result in blackouts and poor coordination at those levels. People can (and do) function on the former on an everyday basis. The last time I tried to do the same with the latter... it wasn't pretty.
@EbonySaints if it's helping you, great! But frankly speaking, I don't think I want people self medicating with alcohol or on strong anti-depressants or other brain altering drugs being in charge of thousands of planes in the sky! I'd rather them be completely clear-headed. If regular people working as ATCs are already beyond stressed out, I don't think people who need meds to level them out, as you say, will fair better.
Add to that any emergency personnel (doctors, police, fire, EMT). They work 12 to 24 hour shifts all the time. It's insane that some of the most crucial professions have some of the longest and most grueling shifts on the planet.
The phrase "near miss" simply means a miss that was near to being a hit. It is not intended to be misleading. And let's put this in perspective against the roughly 40,000 Americans who die in motor vehicle crashes each year.
One of my friends works in the atc tower in an unnamed west coast city, he says that almost everyone in the tower is on adderall to keep up with work, recently there was a near miss and there was a huge investigation. They got lucky. Next time they might not. They need more staff and shorter shifts. Everyone there works 10-12 hour shifts regularly.
They are government employees, so the government has always known. And it is not a problem unique to the US. Countries like Canada and Australia face similar shortages. What this video didn't mention is that the number of flights or air traffic increased significantly over the past few decades but ATC hasn't been able to keep up.
That’s wasn’t an accurate statement. Anything over 40 hours a week or in some cases 80 hours in a biweekly pay period shall be OT. It’s not 60+OT. 60 is the max it could ever be for ATC.
During the last government shutdown I owned a doughnut shop. I had made a declaration that anyone impacted by the shutdown in our area would get a free doughnut for everyone in their family, each day of the shutdown. An ATC reached out to me and asked if I had any ideas for their regional operations center, since they were still working, and unpaid! Luckily I was able to rally local citizens and our ingredient supplier for donations, and my wife and I delivered 20 dozen, enough for everyone at the center, during one of their shift changes to maximize inclusion. It's one of the greatest honors I've ever had. I'll forever be impressed by their commitment.
I spent my 20s on ATC, worked at 3 different airports. Everything in this video is accurate to my experience at each of those facilities. The alcoholic stuff? Not exaggerated. Also? I quit because I was depressed and anxious to the point of not being able to eat. I was miserable and turning into a skeleton. It's a tough job with a toxic culture in an unsustainable system. Even worse if you're a woman.
I've heard it's a toxic culture there with a huge bro culture. Glad you were able to remove your golden handcuffs. I'm sure that was hard cuz my friends ATCs can't leave due to high pay, solid benefits, and early retirement.
Wow. It's almost as if every industry is trying to shave more and more dollars off of operating costs by overscheduling, understaffing and going lax on safety.
Industrial maintenance, this profession was solid middle class if not upper less than 30 years ago, now we can't even afford a house. There is 24 mechanics total keeping 8 lines running 24/7 at my current job, those lines make $15,000 an hour each worth of product and cant keep running without us, the company makes millions of dollars every quarter but we dont even get a $50 bonus quarterly unless there's no injury across the entire plant and we hit numbers that are borderline unobtainable.
It feels like a slap in the face when record profits gets reported on and the company comes out talking about employees being their backbone…. Just to give us RTIC tumblers with the company logo on it instead of $$$$$ which is the only reason we work there. These companies like to pretend that we are there to build their dreams and not feed ourselves of invest in our children.
In major cities they make $150,000+. I think the highest paid controllers made $200,000+. Is it worth it? I’m going to find out. I’m currently in the final hiring stage for the FAA to be an ATC trainee. It really isn’t about making a livable wage, more about work life balance.
I was an air traffic controller in the Air Force for 4 years. Quit doing it when I got out in 2005 and went into airfield management. I've been saying this for years and years. The next major accident in the US involving an airline, with fatalities, will most likely be a runway collision due to ATC error. Came very close many times in the last few years. Most of them I don't think many people really know about either if they don't follow aviation related stuff closely. Should have stuck it out though. Seems like they're desperate for controllers. I really liked tower. Hated RAPCON, which was sitting in a dark room staring at a radar scope. Tower was fun - way up high watching everything out on the airfield.
I was a controller at ZJX for 11 years. I was very proud to work along side some amazing people and do what I thought was the coolest job. Unfortunately towards my last few years there, everything that the video mentioned became too much for me. I was not abusing drinking or anything like that, for me it was my mental health. I attempted various times to get help but I always ended up with roadblocks. It's sort of embarrassing to say this, but eventually I couldn't handle it anymore and had a panic attack and collapsed at work. Luckily I had finished my briefing and was not talking to any live traffic when it happened. I ended up in the ER and decided there and then I'd never go back. It was one of the hardest, but best decisions. I only have the upmost respect for my previous coworkers and hope that the job gets better. It was an amazing job and my reasons for leaving it should have never happened.
@toro man sorry to hear. That gotta be a stressful what you went through man. What do you think could help ATCs deal with it better while still making sure air safety is prioritized?
That’s all I’ve worked are under paying jobs unfortunately. Union jobs my Grandfather and my father were paid well for are now jobs that are nonunion ( thank you Ronald Reagan) and pay poorly. All for what ? So a few greedy people can be billionaires while the rest of us suffer.
My first 'real' job was as a printers helper in a non union shop in 1980. The company kept the union out by offering us a very nice compensation package. Especially coming up from McDonalds and 7/11. You know, my career in food service and retail...
THIS is why we need to break out of the two-party trap and elect a third party candidate this year. There are at least two candidates who seem to actually care about the people who waste their lives to line the pockets of the rich.
@@5qu34k99Voting for a third party candidate will hand the election to Trump. If Trump wins, there will only ever be one party, & voting will be a thing of the past. VOTE BLUE! VOTE BLUE! VOTE BLUE!
@@kellykat8057 Not if enough people decide to make the switch. Unfortunately by applying that logic in the last election we ended up with our country supporting a genocide. Not that it would be any different under the orange monster's rule, but we can't let the fear of trump as a dictator force us into voting for anyone that would support genocide. I'd almost rather get the laughing-stock, psycho narcissist, rapist back and fight a civil war against his cult. Biden is better than trump by a very thin margin, but he's lost my trust. Stein or West are the only options I see and I think West might have a better chance so far. I wish they were running together. Say NO MORE and go third-party in 2024!
@@kellykat8057 I'm not sure what happened to my other reply. Maybe because I called trump the r-word (because he is one...). Hopefully the reply is still here and I just can't see it for some reason. But in case it's not... I won't vote for anyone who supports genocide. Never trump and no longer Biden. Third party is the only option. With thinking like yours, we'll never break out of the problem. That's how I felt about the last election and now I feel that Biden doesn't deserve my vote. He's lost my trust. I'm done with the BS. Third-party is the only path forward and the only chance this country has of being something good. If enough people wake up to that fact, then we won't have to worry about the manchild winning.
You are aware that unionization led to the transatlantic slave trade, right? Not even kidding, the plantation owners were pissed off that their current workers were refusing to work for more than half of their workday (literally a 5 hour break in the middle of the day and all kinds of other stuff), so they went elsewhere for labor. All strikes are extra-legal, but some are definitely immoral.
The problem is that a job that crucial is often hammered down by the powers that be for even daring to speak up. Remember the rail workers who wanted to go on strike in 2022? It was still in the tail end of the acute supply chain problem, and Biden didn't want another bad economy story, so he effectively screwed over the unions with a less than bare minimum deal that let the rail companies continue their hijinks.
Wait till you find out how crucial all working class are. Remember what they called people working in grocery stores, hospitals, and more just a few years ago? I remember.
Why so they can be paid less? Ironically the issue with aviation today are the Unioned workers doing a shitty job and getting people killed. Did you not see the crash last week?
@@ninjagirl226Union workers average 18% higher wages and have better job security. Get your facts straight and come with sources before making wild claims.
I've bounced around a few jobs over the last 8 years, the only things that have pushed me to quit are relocating and being unable to commute, or blatant management failures. Delivering pizza was the latter; Papa Johns has a bullshit corporate policy that set the maximum in store wage to $10 an hour, which wasn't too problematic for the drivers since we got tips, but we had a single in-store employee by the time I left, and he was only there because he was the underage ward of an assistant manager who could give him a ride to work with her. I don't mean he was only there in the sense of that relationship being the only reason he got the job, but he only stayed there because he could get a ride. Meanwhile the KFC, McDonalds, Arbys, Taco Bell, and Burger King a block away all started at $15/hour.
Accessible transportation is a real problem in the states. We need to reduce stroads and invest in walkable and pedestrian priority areas. Along with more specific train and bus routes
Shortstaffing seems to have become a normal part of the U.S. business model across many fields and industries. No suprise it probably began with Reagan.
What do you think they can do now to fix shortage gap? Seems certifying time takes years, so no quick fix. However, curious what steps you think FAA can take to dec shortage or what work can be automated from ATCs plate to bring balance?
"With alot of mistakes happening it's not hard to attribute that fatigue with the decade plus run of facilities using overtime as a crutch for staffing...." All companies in America have shifted to this model I have experienced this at EVERY SINGLE JOB I'VE WORKED IN THE LAST 8 YEARS. They swear they are going to hire more people but don't have any active job listing. The only time companies are fully staffed are during "peak seasons" when they know things will be waaaaaay out of hand because business is increased (for afew months usually 2-3 out the year). Healthcare (during holiday months because families complain when they see how things are normally), Railroad work, Security, Kitchens, warehouses, Teaching, and Retail so many jobs are doing this it's crazy!
Correct the delayed echo / ripple effect. Also Bush screwed things additionally by not hiring when the Reagan strike controllers approached retirement.
@@ninjagirl226 an illogical statement - you can't talk to a dead person. regardless - the video already pointed out things were bad before reagan - given you actually watched the video, which appears unlikely. included was the lies reagan's told, his laying off of 11,000 workers immediately, and violent arrests of union leaders and chaining them up. so yes, reagan did objectively make the issue significantly worse - QED. not a debate
I met and fell in love with a Canadian woman who was an air traffic controller. She made it very clear she could never move down here, and would never move down here, due to the results of the PATCO strikebreaking. We’re still friends, 20 years later. The air traffic situation down here is still fucked, 20 years later.
Not all. Its more the point that its a concerted effort that keeps being re-applied through the years. It was true before Nixon and after Reagan featured in this video and the reason union membership dropped, wages stagnated, and the rich got richer despite multiple crises and crashes.
@@CanadianWolverine fair points. Just funny to me how often I find issues leading back to old Ronny at some point. Usually they do extend to before Reagan's time but typically he is involved.
My dad was actually the pilot for the FedEx plane in the first clip!!! He got a safety award from the pilot's union! it was weird as hell hearing his voice in a RU-vid video XD
I'm not shocked. The system of careful quality assurance at Boeing and the airlines has been breaking down for years. They started at such an excellent place that it's taking time to show up in dramatic ways, but without a reversal of direction, fatal collisions and crashes are inevitable.
@@ninjagirl226 How is that "hell on Earth"? That's a great schedule for an extremely stressful and demanding job - particularly one that pays very well (and given all the stress and demands of the job, it should be paying very well). Granted, it would mean hiring a hell of a lot more ATCs and greatly increasing their pay. But when you consider how incredibly important their jobs are and how critical it is that the ppl staffing the ATC towers are alert and able to manage their workload safely? Yeah, those changes make all the sense in the world! It would also help with passengers as well. I know I don't want to fly with the way things are right now - especially if I have to go through a big airport like O'Hare. The big airports where they handle a ton of traffic every hour? Those are the ones where an accident is most likely to happen.
@SadisticSenpai61 Especially as these days, it might not just be the ATC a pilot has to worry about. Sometimes, it's a question if his plane can even fly
@@waffles3629 Yes. Because boredom. Also if you are working part time and very few hours my general experience is that you don’t really know what to do because you lack experience. This leads to more accidents like the idiot who nearly blew up the lab at my last job. We already have poorly trained mechanics let’s not make the issue worse
6 day work weeks with 10 hour shifts? Yeah, that's a disaster waiting to happen. I am currently interested in becoming an ATC in my country and we have 4 day work weeks with 8 hour shifts. 2 hours of that shift is paid break time. I am surprised nothing too bad happened yet.
i'm not surprised, as soon as they talked about how crappy everything is, i knew it would trace back to regan no suprise that the industry thats famous for having its union DESTROYED is a living nightmare
Reagan played the role of a movie sheriff, having a showdown with a very important part of our economy that he did not really understand, because he was an actor, not someone committed to comprehension or becoming educated deeply about anything.
Their overtime and hold on hiring sounds exactly like the situation my friend dealt with as a 911 dispatcher. They have so much mandatory overtime on top of their 10 hour shifts 6 days a week, and it severely impacted both her health but also the lack of staffing means that call times exceed the regulations all the time, and dispatchers can’t do as good of a job when they’re so overworked
65 for pilots isn't even that old. I don't see an issue with it. Used to be 60 though. Can't remember when they raised it. I think like 2005. Recently congress was trying to raise it to 67, but I believe that didn't make it anywhere.
DEI hires are the problem. Hiring people who are only qualified, not based on experience, but because they check all the right boxes is going to result in a catastrophe soon.
Stressful, life-or-death jobs like ATC, paramedics, etc., should be part-time, 20 hours a week, with full pay and benefits. We need full and I daresay redundant staffing for these jobs for the health and safety of EVERYONE, workers and those who rely on them.
Imagine not protecting the same people who keep YOU and YOUR FAMILY safe in the skies. But also let me tell you that there are ATCs that only fly when certain ATCs are on duty. That's how suspicious they are of each other 😳
I was hired as a replacement controller after Reagan fired all the PATCO Union Controllers. The fired PATCO guy who got up and said, "I'd like to talk to all you replacement controllers. Give it a try, and come back and talk to me in 5 years." He NAILED IT! It was only 5 years after all of us replacement controllers were hired that we got FED UP with FAA Management and we all voted to form our own NEW Union called NATCA which is still battling FAA Management to this day!
@sirsurnamethefirstofhisnam7986 Great thing about traveling within the US is that there isn't any blue water in the way unless you want to go to Alaska or Hawaii
THAT LITERALLY WAS SUCH a Big deal... and his SAVAGE MIS- TREATMENT of the A.T.C. UNION'S BROTHERHOOD became the "TONE" HIS presidency is KNOWN for HAVING DIRECTLY CAUSED ALMOST EVERY OTHER EMPLOYER STAFFED WITH UNION LABOR to be CRIPPLED by the SUDDEN EPIPHANY realized by ALL the MIDDLE CLASS EMPLOYERS AT THE SAME TIME- LABOR "PROTECTION" at the Federal Level Shifted drastically AWAY from the Benefit of the worker To benefiting the Owners At least "effectively" Resulting in this outcome MORE THAN not by way of how "friendly" the Reagan NLRB was to CLAIMS of Violating Union Rights, Freedom to Organize, etc. Under Reagan the UNIONS OF OUR NATION... starting THAT day in 1981.. Decline SHARPLY FROM around 25+% Union Jobs for a strong MIDDLE CLASS income & Benefit PKGs, etc To around 15% by 1990... In the same time frame of course you can see it when we LOST the WAGES and the benefits along with the unions
Americans have accepted the status quo and functionally checked out from participation in any meaningful aspect of politics or their working lives (as a whole) until and unless labor begins participating and supporting other labor instead of judging labor, shaming labor, and promoting the myths management pushes on labor. Gotta manage ourselves up.
i saw a job opening for an Air Traffic Controllers, it was going to be pay training, but they want people to be between 25 to 30 years old they wanted someone young. If they are in need of this much people why don't they want anyone older?
@@df20001 I understand the short lifespan of the job, what i don't understand is why they only want them young. For example at 25 i would not have wanted a very high stress job, and most like wound not be able to do it. Now at 35 years old with years of working in a call center for both internet phone and with my job right now, i am able to handle stress so much better now then ever before. I feel that someone that just came out of collage, someone that just was able to drink legally for 4 years, may not be the best person to do air traffic controllers. They may not be able to handled the stress. I also feel that the job was not paying people that much, i think it was maybe 65k in Dallas TX. So my issue is why only the young and why so little in pay.
You stated, "a year after Reagan was elected, none of the changes had been made at the FAA". Well, to be historically accurate President Reagan was elected on 04NOV80, took the oath of office 20JAN81, and began negotiations with PATCO in February 0f 1981. The union rejected the Federal Gov't offer (34.2% raise over 3 years), and struck of 03AUG81. That's just over 6 months, and the offer was monetarily greater than that of the Carter Administration.
Can we discuss the deliberate destruction of passenger rail? Can we discuss the pursuit of growth at all costs, and plainly unnecessary travel by the wealthy which accounts for a large % of the load? Controllers are compelled to deal with private flights, Who is in charge of the skies? The people or Wall Street? Most air travel is just stupid. Business boys running around feeling important, pop culture tours no one needs, and with luxury and much small craft air travel just a selfish desire to be apart from ordinary people, rather than build a shared sustainable infrastructure that we can all benefit from. Airplanes are essentially classist and have become the locus of both terrorism and authoritarianism. Just don't bother with them, and take away the subsidies for rich people's private flights, Problem solved.
I'm a recently retired controller and the problem isn't the PATCO strike, it was Clinton and Congress in the 90's that stopped hiring new controllers from '91 through almost '98. So all the late 80's and 1990 hires (like myself) have been hitting the mandatory age 56 retirement age over the past few years, with that long gap in the pipeline behind us. Then there was the 2008-2016 hiring disaster years where they switched to hiring controllers based on racial and cultural characteristics instead of mental skills, knowledge and abilities which led to wasted years of training people who ultimately did not certify. We are suffering for those decisions now.
Not really. Those people would be gone now. It’s the hiring after the big 09 boom that just stopped when they got sued over the testing then during covid again. Wait until the group in 09 start to go in five years. It’s gonna be real fun lol
I was hired in '82 and worked at a ARTCC. Retirements were and are a huge factor and the DEI push at the academy and facilities set back the program several years.
The entire training environment (for lack of a better term) needs to be revamped, from selection to the academy, to OJT at the facility. I was blessed with great OJTI's who cared about my training and trained me to succeed. Others I know had OJTI's who didn't give a crap about proper training. The whole training system needs an overhaul. What doesn't help is the actual hiring process. People can wait years to hear whether they've been selected. By the time they get the word, they're already involved in a promising career doing something else.
@797I was lucky to be hired in '82. From the time I took the CST to getting a offer to go to OKC academy was maybe 2 months. But the selection process changes depending on the FAA's goals. It is not consistent. They have change the training system many times over the years. Staffing numbers keep changing also. They start to ramp up training and the numbers get lowered for staffing. They have never had a way to estimate the number of people really retiring. They always underestimate the number. People who apply shouldn't have to wait years to know if they can start training.
Jacksonville Center certainly needs some staffing help. All it takes are a couple of clouds in the sky and “flow programs” go into effect for anyone crossing through their airspace. Which means delays from coast to coast.
Eh guy ignored the real issues in aviation to push propaganda that will continue to leave just as many pilots dead. Sad and frustrating as the victim of this shit.
Can't imagine being an ATC after so many years of neglect to the field. I'm sure someone will fill those shoes once they're made available, but I feel bad for all those people who are going through Hell just trying to keep our planes flying.
There are some jobs that I couldn't possibly consider doing, and ATC would be in the top 5. Reagan double-crossed them something awful back in the eighties, and they've never truly recovered. The professionalism still exists if you listen to some of their RU-vid channels. They get some real doozies flying in sometimes.
you mean like surgens/ doctors? wow ... welp anything we really depend our lives on... "function" like this. mean while they're thinking of adding more flights...
I'm a retired Army Controller. Now, you can add the DEI into the equation of recruiting a future Air Traffic Controller. Their nationality, race, gender identity, and skin color far outweigh their mental ability, test score results, or aptitude for this profession. Want the inside scoop? Talk to ex-controllers or Airline Pilots.
