I can’t help but see all of the people lumping fearful avoidants into one big lump or “horrible, messy, toxic” box in this comment thread. Everyone is on their own healing journey, and their own timeline. And FAs all also have different ways of dealing with things. I can understand the difficulty being with an FA, especially one who is not attempting to get better, but please stop putting us all into one general box. Honestly, as a fearful avoidant who has been in therapy for most my life (literally since I was 7) and am constantly seeking ways to make myself better, those comments make this space feel unsafe to be vulnerable and learn, and makes me not want to seek out these resources. Shouldn’t you want these spaces to be safe for the people who have maybe wronged or hurt you to learn and better themselves? You can share your stories while also holding space for variability in experiences and people.
My wife is an FA and there are times where it is difficult. Not because of what she can put me through but because of how she feels. I know when she is hurting but is afraid to open up and share about it. She is healing and we are speaking with a relationship councilor to help us understand each other better. It's very rewarding because I know she is fiercely loyal and extremely loving even though to others it looks like she might be cheating or is dishonest. I think true Avoidants are misunderstood. One of the things you said that made me really want to respond is your feelings about others comments making you feel unsafe to be vulnerable and learn. That was a big problem with my wife but I kept encouraging her to open up in small ways and always thanked her when she did. I hope you are able to heal soon and want to keep encouraging you to continue working on yourself at your own comfortable pace. You will find someone who will understand, support, encourage, accept and, most importantly, love you for how you are now. Do not give up hope and know you are worthy and deserving of someone who will treat you very well. Hope this made you feel better.
@@calebyoung9246 thank you so much for this message. I didn’t know how much I needed to hear this until I realized I had tears running down my face while reading it. 🧡
@@FloatingInSpace5702 You are most welcome! I'm glad I could help you feel accepted, heard, and appreciated. You saying it made you have tears running down your face brought a couple to my eyes. Warmly
@@calebyoung9246 I'm always in shock that people with FA get far enough to have a committed relationship, let alone a marriage (as one with FA myself)
@whitney5702 Unfortunately, people's opinions on their experiences with FAs will be here. Focus on your healing. The world won't condition themselves to make you feel safe. That is your job and yours alone. It is a fact that many FAs need to face. Stop letting others' opinions dictate how you view yourself. Most people have had messy horrible and toxic dynamics with them. It is a pill you'll have to swallow. And focus on yoir journey.
As a FA I realized that I've never gotten my needs met in any of my relationships. My relationships have always been based on me over doing things for other people and I just always thought that was normal. Then I wondered why none of my relationships are sustainable. I just flee relationships when I can't give anymore to the other people. I look forward to being single and learning to give to myself and being allowed to exist.
@donvatahi90 In my experience there is a level of delusion FA's live in. They THINK they do so much for their partners but if you asked the other person, they'd tell a different story. I think FA's are initially attracted to takers and will chase that relationship for a while. But if they enter a relationship with a giver it freaks them out and gets too real and they run. To make themselves feel better they tell themselves a story that does not reflect reality because at the end of the day an avoidant is going to avoid anything that might cause them to reflect. Because to reflect is to confront. Confrontation to them is painful. And they avoid what they perceive as pain/painful or even having the potential to cause pain. Oh and I think the reason they feel better or last longer in relationships where they are chasing/with a taker is because in those dynamics they are still avoiding. Though in that case they aren't avoiding a person, but true intimacy.
Fearful avoidants seek these people out to repeat those cycles because they’re avoidant when they meet someone secure. Receiving positive attention and security make them leave.
@@donvatahi90 are you sure you actually understand attachment theory? each person with FA attachment leans into either direction in different situations due to trauma. fawn (people-pleasing) is a trauma response.
It was exhausting trying to figure out what my long distance FA partners needs were and if his push away every time we were going to move closer to one another was his fear of losing self or him playing me…..
The experience with my avoidant ex is that, yes, she wanted all those things but wasn’t willing to give them. Safety? transparency? taken into consideration…etc…all those things I gave her or was willing to give her….but was she transparent with me? consistent with me? honest? nope…..I understand the behavior better now that I’m learning about attachment styles but I still resent it and feel it’s so disfunctional, hurtful, immature. smh.
Definitely with you on this one!! They need all of that but that is exactly what they WILL NOT GIVE YOU!! I tried it as well and was still lied to, I as well feel resentful!
They say alot of 'i appreciate you' variations but dont show anything in return in behaviour. Being in a relationship with an avoidant is lonelier than being single past the lovebombing stage. They are with you but looking past you. The lights are on but nobody is home. Heck they cant even hold eye contact when having sex with you and often have alexithymia, an inability to express deep seated feelings. We'd think our love can bring them out of their rut or 'save' them. What ends up happening is they will destroy you and create such a crippling anxiety. They either discard you or force you to break up with them. If you look back all the red flags were already detected by your gut/subconscious, you just didnt know what you were dealing with until attachment theory. Every single thing they said and did which didnt make sense or congruency FINALLY made sense in light of what you learnt. If someone is dating an avoidant and they show no signs of self reflection after a while its better to rip the bandaid off and save yourself the continued torment. It will hurt like nothing you've ever experienced in your life and it will cripple you for some time. But remember you cant have back the time you spent wasted on this person. The person who you knew in the infatuation period is gone and will never come back anymore. Thats who we are hanging on to, who we miss and hope to have back. What i can tell you is that what you got when you discarded is the real part of them as much as the loving person they were initially. Unfortunately that is what they will be from that point onwards. Read around online and you'll almost never find any success stories of avoidants and their partners working out. Even Ken Reid has not heard of one. The neurobiology of avoidants are literally different from the neurobiology of anxious/secure people. Projecting how you think is how they think and trying to rationalise it will have you in an endless loop. You'd never do something like action 'X' to them, but that is not how their brains work. Yes, avoidants are never malicious, and we can have compassion for them. Yet the fact remains that you'd get thrown in the trash multiple times in a relationship with them. Despite the intent, you are still thrown in the trash isnt it? We are in a relationship with the behaviours of a person, not their intent. Are you really willing to deal with the back and forth and hot and cold? Are you really willing to not love a person you truly love? Are you willing to deal with the non fulfilling connection for a lifetime? Think about that.
You say avoidant, but that usually refers to dismissive avoidant, not fearful avoidant. It sounds a lot like you are talking about someone who is dismissive avoidant, not fearful. This video is specifically about fearful avoidant people. Was your ex DA or FA?
This is just one FA's experience but safety was my conscious no 1 priority for connection always. Imagine dating or being friends with an anxious person (AP or anxious FA, doesn't matter). They offer a lot, more than you need really, but one thing they can never provide is emotional safety due to their own dysregulation, and until they heal this part, there can be no safety in the connection unless you constantly regulate their emotions for them.
I see what you mean, but I also feel differently about it. I feel the safest with APs because I find it relatively easy to keep them emotionally regulated, and I know they aren't going to leave.
When I dated an anxious attachment style, I felt like the avoidant. When I dated an avoidant attachment style, I felt like an anxious. I’m definitely fearful avoidant and can acknowledge the full throttle of that now, and how I communicate my needs in a relationship now.
I'm an FA who attempted to date a DA... the safety, trust, consideration was simply not there. I gave it to him, he did not give it back. After numerous conversations, but ultimately repeated behavior, I finally blocked him since there was nothing left to say. If you can't give me baseline respect and consideration then what are we even doing?? Nah
Amen. Exact same with me. I am an FA and in the process of breaking up with a severe DA. Baseline respect, consideration and a little compassion goes a long way with me… but nada, zero, zilch. Completely unrequited with the giving & receiving. And then the trust thing… OMG!
I love how you kind of covered FA's who can lean both AP or DA depending on the circumstance. All of these factors really depend on who we're in a relationship with and the vibe. If you are secure then it's easy breezy. I've never been triggered by a secure man. If you are with someone more anxious then we sometimes do pull back and not give as much. My personal experience with anxious men is that they pull out all the stops to get you to fall for them, but it seems the "kindness" sometimes have conditions like breaking my boundaries and non-negotiables to meet theirs. I don't like that. On the other end, dating someone more avoidant can trigger other wounds and sometimes make you do more than you're used to and get into people pleasing mode but then get annoyed if they aren't reciprocating. So unless people have dated different types of FA's then it's hard to pinpoint exactly who you're getting. If you talk to an AP ex of mine I guarantee you're going to hear a different version of me than the other two would tell. 😂 I'm secure now, but it's definitely a wild ride being a FA and dating another FA is not for the weak! LOL
Please tell me what resources you used to get secure. I realize now that I am beyond doubt a dismissive avoidant myself. But people like me will only look up this stuff when WE get dumped. and at that moment I feel like an anxious wreck. so at first I was confused what my style was. I'm acting like an anxious. but after a few weeks it hit me that I am CLEARLY more dominantly a dismissive avoidant. it has been a literally overwhelming discovery about myself. Yes you can switch depending on the situation. It's a bit like personality traits. even a very shy person usually in some contexts is outgoing and at ease. Even confident people can get highly insecure and vice versa etc.
@@bluecoffee8414I highly recommend signing up for Thais’s school it’s truly life changing. I’m an FA with cptsd but my life had really changed for the better once I started taking her courses. I really love to learn and maybe did a little too much that caused some burn out within a short period of time😅 but it helped me to become regulated with my emotions and become more securely attached than ever. I do lean FA sometimes when I’m having a cptsd trigger or if I’m around insecurely or avoidant my attached people but that’s really it! I can’t recommend her courses enough 😊
😂😂😂 Omg... Yes! That's how I've been, as an FA. The best part about being an FA is that we are so inconsistent and act according to the situation, that we want to change that so hard. Therefore, more than any other attachment style, FAs have high chances of getting on the road to being secure. ✌🏼
I'm curious, did you communicate your boundaries to your former anxious partner? I went all in with a girl, before I knew anything about attachment styles, and she started pulling back and then hit me with the 'crossed boundaries' thing - but never told me what they were! I'm generally securely attached, but she had me feeling all kinds of anxious. If she'd communicated with me, I'd have been more than willing to work with her on any issues she had with me, but she just never did that. 🤷♂️
Thais, you hit the nail on the head again. I am a FA… which I was clearly able to identify through your very accurate videos. Your description is exactly me. I recently broke up with a severe DA. Almost none of my needs were met… trust (in all regards), transparency, congruency, depth, growth, novalty, safety. It was extremely volatile with fight, flight, freeze & fawn almost permanently. There was a lot of chemistry and passion, but ALWAYS me giving to her in this regard. First 6 months were bliss, second 6 months slight decline, but then rapid deterioration in the power struggle stage. Zero attempt from her side to understand the basics of trust/honesty and long term relationship growth. Very unrequited in most aspects. Yet, despite all this for 18 months, she couldn’t understand why I broke up with her, and acted like she was blind-sided??? Go figure I know that all of my core wounds etc will melt away with a more trustworthy and secure type. You are 101% accurate in all your descriptions and assessments. It would be even more valuable if you assessed the brain chemistry side of attachment styles in your videos❤ You have helped me to understand myself better in my quest toward nurturing myself toward secure! Thank you
Appreciate the video as always, Thais, but I still think that, with the FA, it's a no-win situation. One can do everything to a nicety, satisfying all constraints, but make one small mistake, and it's the point of no return. It's almost as if everything has to be at 99% accuracy. Drop below that threshold, and it's catastrophic.
Pandering to anyone will never end well, everyone should set a realistic example of what a reasonable relationship should look like and have the skills to directly communicate that. If theyre uncapable of understanding then its on them to learn to compromise, grow out of not personalizing things or taking responsibility for their own behaviors. That being said some can give the benefit of the doubt with not making your support conditional but at some point youll know if theyre truly trying or its doomed to fail and moving on is the best option. I dont advocate anyone to abandon their own needs regardless of how unstable some partners can be, its just not our responsibility if we chose to stick around and help.
@@gatorssbm Indeed, communication and compromise are key. Without the former, one's wants and "not wants" are not documented and therefore the other partner doesn't know. Sadly, the world has been sold the idea that true love is based on "just knowing."
Yup, there is no winning with an f.a no matter how many times I kindly communicate it what I didn't like he kept ignoring me! I'm so peaceful now that I don't deal with that bs
@@gatorssbm 100% I have flexed and flexed. Made my need absolutely clear and offered compromise. I just do see a change or her taking accountability for her actions or lack there of. Now, I’m stepping away and giving her the rains. I know she wants to work on herself. I would love to offer her support but I feel she needs to do this on her own.
Smh These videos come right on time. Trying to take a step back & look on both sides of a relationship can be tough but these videos really help put things in perspective. Cause I know when I feel in full AP mode it can be just as trying so hearing the other side & not falling into a world of worry of abandonment.
*It is truly a most bizarre characteristic of humans, that we smile when we are in pain.* The hardest person to break up with is the one you've created in your own delusional, fantasy-making mind... 1. Know your value!!! (Do NOT doubt yourself.) 2. Take yourself and your worth seriously. You need to BE A QUEEN to be treated like one. 3. Don’t give easy access to anyone, at any time. Access to your energy MUST be expensive. 4. Do NOT only express your boundaries. YOU MUST show them. 5. Always be ready to walk away. 6. Show that you are focused on actions not on words. 7. Have a healthy degree of skepticism. 8. You must be willing to say NO and you must be willing to lose the man, if needed. 9. Never EVER chase a man! A truly worthy woman, (who knows her worth) does not EVER chase a man. Giving the same energy that you're getting is key and if you don't like that energy then move on! NOW! It can be hard but that's when you need to choose yourself over the damn illusion/fantasy. A man who loves a woman will not ignore her, ever, period. So... If he ignores me I will step back and he will lose me. Simple. Simple. Non-dramatic and uncomplicated. I don’t, under any circumstance: play these childish-abusive-controlling mind games. I will only be with a man who values and appreciates me, and treats me as the Queen, I AM. (Daughter of the Most Hight; King of kings!) Because I am a beautiful and kind and divine and sexy and wise and intelligent and magical woman: who knows my worth. Period. Also, We create each moment. This moment contains, through my focus, both positive and negative... Both painful and wonderful. I can put my attention on what I lack, what I don't have, what traumas I do have etc... And, I can put my attention on the calm moment that I am in, NOW, the food I just ate, and the fact that my body is satisfied, the shelter I do have... (You get my idea!) Both are here... And now. For the sake of fairness, I will allow myself to cry my pains, in the moment if/when they come/arise, AND also acknowledge the beauty I still have in my life NOW. Pain? Yes. Suffering? Indeed. And, also: wonderous magical divine beauty. Blessings to you!
Love this, except I would take the gender out of it and replace it with person, because this can apply to either gender, whether in a heterosexual relationship or same sex one.
Listening to this really helps me get inside the mind of my FA. I can actually see where all the mixed signals are coming from, but I also see that my behavior has been the perfect balance for her to come to me.
I’m AF and DA still married with a very strong personality woman. She always ask me for transparency and honesty, I have tried many ways to make changes but never succeed gaining her trust for my mistakes done in the past. The first one was infidelity since then I had never recovered from it. I’m not a trophy or model husband I have my flaws but I have believe in me I can do it. It happened 13 years ago and she still hold accountable in every time an argument or debate occurs in the daily life, I always was told by her “I don’t trust you!. I never tried to sabotaged our marriage but she never forgiven me the time.
It seems fearful avoidants are stuck in a childlike state. Almost like a relationship between a child and a mother. Wanting mother to provide to sooth them in every way, while not taking accountability to fully heal and grow and be in a mutually balanced mature relationship.
A lot of the problem is they often don't know about their own needs, or how to meet them, or how to communicate them. FAs need to learn (1) what their needs are, (2) how to meet their own needs 50% of the way, and (3) how to communicate them so the other 50% can be met. The idea is everyone gets their needs met. Not just the FAs.
I’m securely attached. Have watched videos on all attachments including AP and FA. Fearful avoidants, by far sound like the most complex pattern and childlike. As I hear her go into what a FA wants and how to treat them, it literally sounds like a child-mother relationship. Not a equally balanced adult relationship. For any relationship to work, both parties have to step up, take accountability of inner wounds and shed the unhealthy patterns projected. Not place the responsibility for their partner to hold their hand at all times play a parent. It seems AP’s are way more open to doing the inner work than the FA’s, hence the “avoidance”.
Hi Thais, Thank you for sharing these incredibly educational and helpful videos. Channels like this need to be more highlighted so we can all better understand ourselves.
Is it possible for an FA who doesn’t know his/her needs to not value growth, say an FA that leans more dismissive secondarily? Pretty sure my ex is an FA but did not feel comfortable talking about needs, having deeper convos.
Even when I was just friends with my partner whos an FA she still met a ton of my needs even without me saying much. If someone isnt reciprocating thats more of a person issue and less of an attachment issue and besides avoidants do meet needs initially til that mask is finally slipping off months in and their fears make them do some very irrational things.
FAs actually tend to neglect their own needs, at times, to meet others needs and then become resentful. We tend to be very good at meeting ppls needs even without them asking because of our hyper vigilance. You may have had a different experience tho.
@@kujjitafari8509 can confirm that not all FA’s are aware of, good at meeting or capable of communicating about the needs of a partner. This myth that they all give more than they receive needs to be debunked.
Being a partner of an fa and making some of these mistakes like bouncing in and out of the relationship because my needs weren’t being met, can we recover? I know she has trust issues with me I’m being stable in the relationship. I broke up and even moved away because I didn’t see or understand at the time her avoidance side. So can this be recovered?
I can tell you it's definitely possible! Of course every relation is different but I was very much in an on off dynamic until I truly understood where the behaviours were coming from - that I was being anxious and lacked independence, and that my partner's avoidance was partially a response to my anxiety, and to not trusting me to be consistently there and emotionally safe in tough times. I took just a bit of time to work on myself, then was able to show truly unconditional love. They didn't trust the change at first (which is totally normal of course), but staying calm, loving and understanding in potential conflict situations, and showing love even when (especially when) they felt hopeless about our relationship, eventually convinced them that our relationship was a safe space. We are now in the most loving relation I have ever experienced and they told me that they feel open to express their love now more than ever before. So... If you think this person is special - if you had amazing moments together, if they have maybe even tried to make things work but felt that they couldn't - and that the problems you have are mostly due to trust issues: change your mindset and become more secure with yourself (that you'll be fine in any case), then stick with it no matter what - feel the love for this person no matter if it is returned in that moment. Then it is absolutely possible your whole relationship is transformed! Best of luck to you ❤
Why would you ever blame you? F.as will forever have trust issues with anything since they don't want to do the work. It won't matter what you do... they won't change because they don't want to. Also f.as love to create chaos when feeling bored in the relationship and that completely toxic. If you want to stay, stay but don't blame the other person after because they show u who they are.
@@Tony2dH thank for your encouraging words. I feel at this point I’m going to give her space and see if she reaches out. If so, yes I’m willing to give it a try and change my prospective on this relationship.
@@emey444 ummmm I actually think many FAs want to do the work. Do you think we want to live in a constant state of dysfunctional regulation? It can literally be painful to be in constant contradiction within yourself. People are at all different points within their healing journey, and yes, some people may not even start. I can understand you having a relationship that was hard for you or even traumatic, but just like women don’t want to be stereotyped into one subset, please don’t do that with all Fearful avoidants.
i have question... how can be FA "kryptonite" for another FA when they both need to trust their partner ? and they are both constantly lying... so how ?
If both are empathetic and self aware enough that suppressed empathy will win out because both are trying their best to not be a burden to the other in spite of their fears. Its a very sharp double edged sword.
I've done it and it's hard depending on the FA's involved. I don't lie nor do I put up with lying. It can work as long as it's a good connection with a lot of softness, love, empathy and honesty.
Just dont even get in a relationship with someone who has "abandonment issues." (FA) They will be the ones who will leave and abandon u, even if the relationship was great, without any hint of how they were feeling and leave u wondering wtf went wrong!! Awful ppl!!!
If you could literally read their minds and do EXACTLY what they’re hoping you will do, they’ll use it against you at you and leave anyway. Stop wasting your time and destroying your life cleaning up a mess their parents made in the first place.
Seems like we're doing all the work to sustain the connection so what are the Avoidants contributing while we're doing all the work ? Seems unbalanced.
