This Is What Spa-Francorchamps COULD have been... | SouthPawRacer's Soapbox 

Regarding dead and broke links, the racinglines mirror of the Racing Circuits database is pretty much the 2005 version of the site. And still one of the best resources around for obscure tracks together with gdecarli. Which is static as of 2014 as I understand. I've taken to updating the Fastlane's mirror of the Racing Circuits database, which is a long way of what I want it to be, but Spa is up to date at the moment. I recall throwing out the figure 8 proposal back when I did the update because it seemed so outlandish given the elevations. I also heard of an early proposal that would have had a different section between Malmedy and Stavelot before the original circuit got build in the 1920s. Finally there is the 24h 2CV layout that used all kinds of access roads and the track in both directions. To quote Rob Semmeling: "A new 24-hour race specifcally for Citroen 2CVs debuted in 1985. Initially, this used an utterly bizarre circuit layout of 4.828 km, which ran from Les Combes to Stavelot and then back again over a service road behind the guard rails, so as to avoid having to close off the non-permanent part of the circuit for traffc. The fastest lap of the 1987 race was a 3.06,89 = 93.0 km/h. In 1989, the 2CV marathon race used an even crazier layout. This reportedly measured some 9.5 km (!), and although the exact layout is not known, photos show it included the old start-fnish section down to Eau Rouge - using the left-hand lane of the track - before diving left to l'Ancienne Douane (a corner not used for racing since 1939), later coming down Raidillon (!) and back to the start via what would normally be the right-hand lane of the track - indeed, that part of the circuit was divided in two using plastic traffc barriers and used in both directions...! " Anyway enough rambling, I leave you with a couple of links for future videos of this kind.Nürbyring www.the-fastlane.co.uk/racingcircuits/Germany/NurburgringProposal1978A.htmlSuzuka www.the-fastlane.co.uk/racingcircuits/Japan/SuzukaOrigProposal1.htmlRCDBs proposed circuits section www.the-fastlane.co.uk/racingcircuits/_type/_proposed.html

The original "How to ruin a racetrack" FIA edition.

That first layout is what would inspire a young man named Herman Tilke

I'd love a video about Suzuka in a similar vein - there's a lot of... interesting proposals in its history, for one way of putting it.

*_S E C O N D G E A R H A I R P I N S_*

3:22 "never ending left hander..." I know the track is too much for a sane brain, but surely you still knew your lefts from your rights...

I hope we get a future video with Jackie Stewart's preferred Monaco proposal - the one that went to France and back...

When u said second gear hairpin i had flashbacks lol

The first one looks like a bitchin Mario Kart track

2:12 that is just Japan China Hungary Us And Azerbaijan In 1 circuit

4:58 Spa-Francorlegs... Looks like a kiwi

It’s hard to say which track version I’d like best. On paper; I definitely prefer the current layout. But... I wish I could try them all out on Assetto Corsa, Automobilista or iRacing. I think seeing them in a more tangible way would be a huge insight, as the potential elevation change is just a bit mind-blowing to me. ... Also, please do a super serious track guides on Sonoma Raceway - that or butcher the track with a horrific redesign. :)

Take a look at the F1 plan for Donnington Park (uk). The old Dunlop bridge went, they dug up half the infield....then ran out of cash

Someone should make that Spazuka layout in a sim. With the elevation changes it would probably be a really good track to drive.

The Red Bull ring circuit before it was redesigned by Tilke is something worth a look at, there is also a onboard lap by Nakajima of that circuit, it's insane

I am in complete agreement with your first four statements. This is how I know we would be best friends if I didn’t live on the complete opposite side of the world.

I think the final proposal you showed is my favourite out of all them, I think because it still has the same shape as the original and therefore looks like Spa still. The second layout just looks like some wild animal with extremely tall legs!

I finally know that I'm not an alien thanks to you! I also love looking at maps and maps of racetracks, what a strange hobby we have lmao

Spa's current layout looks like a bird while flying The layout shown at 4:56 looks like a bird with a pair of jeans on 😂😂😂

What astonishes me most about the classic spa is that after a couple of years the track owners decided that the track is still way too slow and that 3 harpins are 2 too much. So they've built the Eau Rouge / Radillion section and added an extremely fast right hand corner outside the town of Stavelot.

The second and last layout make you take blanchimont at aproximatelly 700 km/h.

That insane crossover thing... I cant imagine what they were thinking. I guess it was all the rage back then. I think Suzuka had a crossover already so there was precedent for it, but the track looks like something I would have scribbled on some paper with a crayon at 3 years old. Its interesting how several of those tracks used that same strip of road between pouhon and campus. I wonder if a public road already existed there, or maybe its just a natural place to put a road given the terrain.

Well... i Think the last one of the versions might be the best but only if you leave out the real Spa of today. I just Can not belive that they all wanted to get Rid of the best corner combination in the world

Loving all these uploads

That first layout. I think should be built somewhere in the world 😂

Wow! I also love looking at maps of tracks, and enjoy the fun challenge of making new ones. It really fascinates me when I See these failed attempts at making a better spa. I would love to see more of these sort of video going foreward, if possible 😀

I love these vids, the second gear hairpins and cough urge stuff always cracks me up.

Some of these proposals line up suspiciously well with the layout they went with in the end

I had absolutely no idea the track had so many proposed layout ideas. Excellent vid, mate!

2nd Gear Hairpin

The first one reminds me of the original Monza layout.

I like the sitting down with its legs to the left looking one. That with eau rouge/Raidillon and the modern bus stop chicane and pits would be a great circuit, I think.

Beautiful. Brilliant. Mesmerizing. I give it a "2nd gear hairpin" out of ten, would shift into second again.

Would be cool to see a similar video of Fuji.

Cool video. I really love the first showed layout out. I'm always for bridges on track!

looks like the track is a lengthed version of the high speed ring from gran turismo

The Nurburgring GP-Strecke had a few different proposals before the final layout much like Spa (and Suzuka like amphobius mentioned), I reckon that could be interesting to look at.

Secteur one (exept the fact that there isn't any eay rouge) is pretty cool

I would love for this to become a series, really interesting stuff

That first one gives me a precursor-vibe for things like 'Complex String' from GT3. Figure 8 in the late 60's? - DO IT!

2:28 is basically a Tilke track but larger.

The only part I don't like about the current layout is the last chicane. It used to be the "busstop chicane" like a short left-right-short-right-lefter. It held a little more speed, but also brought it down enough to have effect. What it is now (and what it has been in between) is a break in the rhythm. But maybe it is just because I am very used to the old one.

Please do more of these!

Love your content my dude

1:29 I S T H I S Z O L D E R ?

You had me in stitches @ 2:11 That layout 😂

Yeaaah ! It's like "how to ruin a racetrack" (i know you won't make some anymore) but with some real stories, i like it ! 👌

we all know what M Schmitz was thinking of when he designed that Spa Layout.

That first proposal, looks like the worst of the worst of the Tilkedromes all bunched together to form this... 'thing'..

I saw the Thumbnail and was like: Wait, you said you won't ruin Racetracks anymore....

Great video Rhys!

I actually like the first design, enough chance to overtake and it has something of everything that makes a good circuit as far as I can tell.

Please. Make more videos about track proposals!

Suzuka had some interesting proposals when first built. Would like to see more video's like this.

My reaction with the first: OMG What a Tilkeing

The scary thing about this video is that with the safety concerns brought up over the Eau Rouge/Radillion complex in light of recent events, we could be looking at this kind of stuff again, mainly around the re-profiling of a certain corner. :/

Spa would be perfect if they put the bus stop back in.

You like maps, & you like racetracks...you remind me of me. These videos are so nerdy but I kind of enjoy them

Fantastic video! I think the 4th variation, if cut with some of the current track, might've made the best option of all these, but then I really do love the current layout. Maybe they could stand to alter the bus stop a little, but it is the 2nd most iconic track on the F1 calendar for a reason.

The first one looked like a Go-Kart track. Something you would find at an amusement park that went overboard and made a twisty course with an overpass. one that the general pubic would constantly crash on.

Best idea for videos ever ! Please do more of those!

This should be a series once the more proposed layouts of the each track is found

That layout at 2:11 looks awesome

id really like to try the one with the bridge, seems really fun cause of the extrem elevations

That second track is the first half of spa and the second half on hokenheim. You can’t even argue.

Always a joy to watch your videos! Brilliant! Thanks! I had some good laughs.

Great topic... Please consider a video about Interlagos, its old amazing layout and the various ideas that led to current layout

5:00 spa but with pants

And I tought I was the only lunatic who cared about this stuff. Great video. Please do more.

That track at the end of the lap for the Sport Moteur layout is an old railroad between Spa (town) and Stavelot.

Once eau rouge was a wide radius hairpin

The Spa modern track compared to the old 60s circuit is a very rare beast off a track that got shorter (by almost half!) and upgraded and yet because of it … it became a better track instead off worse…… there’s not even many tracks that stayed as equally good when they’re gone though a change on the scale that spa did .

6:20 Old Hockenheim 2.0, now with ups and downs.

"second gear hairpin" in slow motion lol nice video as usual

sorry but i just can't ignore Those Legs on the second one... thunder thighs francorchamps

Someone clip that "2nd gear hairpin" bit and loop it for 10 hours

also the first proposal is not bad at all, the only this Im concerned is the money. This would of been very expensive to build since theres a bridge section

5:07 looks like a weird ostrich

Present day Spa kinda looks like an Uzi submachine gun. Lethal track too...

My favorite is the first one shown, but the current spa is far better

The first layout shows promise. I would keep the modern start/finish straight into La Source, Eau Rouge, and Radillon, deviate onto that insane mountain side-trek, keep the weird crossover and cascading hairpins, but after that right-hander, join into the existing layout right before the S-bend so it becomes a triple ess. What do you think?

The geography wouldn't work though, you might not realize how steep some of the hills around there. Going straight from Kemmel down to Pouhon would be not only steeper than Raidillon, but by quite a bit.

It looks as if spa had a child with suzuka and shanghai

It may have had an insane layout, but at least it wasn't another Tilkedrome. Actually, I like the track very much. It will be until they open the Nordeschliffe.

8:12 He speaks about Rouen les Essarts. Nothing to add, do a video about Rouen. About this video, about the proposals of Spa, it's hard to imagine how the layout would have to evolve until today, the curent layout only change about the parking area, I mean the run-off area and the chicane bus stop, and i think the proposals would change more than that, they look so ... 1970, with some exception but when you see the 1970 tracks around the world and how they change today ... Well, if someboby create a way to go to an alternate universe, please tell us how Spa is.

6:44 that's basically just Mosport

I've been to Spa irl in '05 or '04 for the 24hrs (it was won by a Vitaphone Maserati MC12 might have been Fabio Babini at the wheel) anyway I'd like to reiterate everything you said about elevation change at that circuit. I'm from the UK and have visited a few tracks regularly, mainly Silverstone, Donnington and Brands Hatch and even Silverstone (ex RAF airfield) has it's ups n downs, but I was not ready for Spa. These days we take bikes often but I'm so glad I was at Spa on foot. I would have surely died from exhaustion had I been cycling. Watching on TV you really can't tell how steep some of the elevation changes are and you have no idea of how far from everything you are. Sure there are a couple small villages but the track is huge and in some parts when you're in ancient forest wilderness, hearing race cars in the middle of the night, it's incredibly surreal.

2:11 herman tilke trake before herman tilke trakes

Z O L D E R

Should do more track proposal videos lol

Apart from the stupid chicane at the end of the lap I love Spa.

The first one looked like a 3 year old trying to draw Shanghai but they only remembered 2 parts of it.

i thought this was going to be one of the videos where you ruin a circuit but this was a interesting topic i enjoyed just as much!

I wish it was still possible to experience some of the original layouts in the newer race cars, Spa, A1 ring, Monza, Hockenheim, the speeds would have been insane.

This is a cursed one lol The amount of accidentd and death people

fantastic content

This is a very nice video idea Keep it up

I love the current version of Spa (Spa 98 was the race that made me a diehard F1/motorsport fan), and thanks to Project cars 2 had a chance to try the classic Spa layout and I can understand why they made the changes in general. However, out of the scrapped proposals, I think the second layout you showed when it goes into itself and then back on to what would be the current layout leading into La Source would have been a fun track to race on. Would it have been safer? Probably not but that middle section would have been a fun section to drive.

4:56 anyone think this is just Spa with legs? 😂

I would like to see l' Ancienne Douane corner come back or part of it any way as there is a house on the inside of the corner now