That's more an issue with conflicting conversational styles. Similar to the problem that happens with many women who aren't good at interrupting or holding attention in a conversation. Guys often want accelerated conversations if they're interested, and letting people just talk (when you roughly know what they're saying) takes too long.
lol I don’t really view it that way. I’m respectfully curious about who views it this way. I find that people who usually make these comments are the ones who are almost the opposite, maybe somewhat introverted and maybe cautious of their own voice. Does that hit a note or no?
I think Robert is alluding to a victim mindset, the problem with therapy is a therapist is incentivized to not get you fully better, they'll have you talk in circles if you want. For me its helped me understand how to process and absorb emotions more appropriately, and how to understand and express my needs in a more direct and capable manner. I was raised in a household with poor communication and a constant unsafe feeling. Moving into adulthood has been an extremely painful process which personal work alongside therapy helped me a lot through.
I totally agree. 'Bad Therapy' by Abigail Shrier shows how damaging it can be to tell someone they have PTSD or Clinical Depression for life. Instead, focusing on resilience and growth can help them come out stronger. That being said just like with mechanics, not all therapists are the same. Some really help, while others might make things worse creating a dependency.
I agree. I think he’s talking about being more observant of our thoughts rather than being a victim to them. For example, observing when negative thought patterns occur and being able to identify them and re-shift our focus away from them.
I'm right there with you but just one step further, so I need to warn you: trying to not ruminate is also a form of being stuck inside your own mind. Just get outside and do something, talk something, pursue something you like. No matter how small set your mind to something and do it. If you want to write a story even a single sentence for a day is great step forward, or if you want to get better at building something getting just one nail into the thing on the day is good. Just make sure to try your best for that day.
As a therapist, I resonate with the views of Robert Greene on the matter. Discussing our thoughts and emotions solely reaffirms the internal conflict, highlighting the struggle between the self-the "I" or "me"-and its efforts to manage or control its thoughts. This illustrates self-absorption, where one part of our psyche dominates, the "I", endeavoring to suppress other elements such as unwelcome thoughts, memories, and emotions. This dominance leads to a fragmented and conflicted mind, devoid of peace or tranquility. Insight into the unity of the observer (me) and the observed (my thoughts and feelings), a concept echoed in Krishnamurti's discourses, can dissolve this inner conflict. Liberation from incessant thinking is achieved through the simple act of observing one's thoughts. The essence of this observation transcends mere contemplation about one’s thoughts; it is an absence of thought altogether. It is akin to gazing at the distant ocean horizon without the interference of thought-pure, attentive observation. This state of awareness constitutes genuine meditation.
Verbal ventilation is also not so far removed from rumination; talk about it enough to bring light to buried feelings, but not so much as to constantly dwell I think
@@Sy8ro You need boundaries (which people mistake for balance). It ain't worth the trouble to trip over a rock and stomp it to dust. The thing is when it becomes an auto pilot, you're just running on impulse
That's a change people need to acknowledge, and it can be good or bad on how we're adjusted. In an overwhelmingly traditional society people self-blame which isn't consciously viable.
@@Sy8ro I think you are confused. It's what you are offended about. The self-absorbed feel they are entitled to everything and offence is more important than free speech.
Mr Greene makes reference to a “philosopher/mentor” from Russia who believes that it’s better to keep feelings and thoughts inside, unspoken. Of course, in Russia, a communist country with a tyrannical dictator of a man speaks he will end up in prison. Furthermore, he doesn’t realize that part of what contributes to the decline in the role of men in western society is the lack of guidance for men. Boys are growing up in single parents homes with the absence of fathers. Moreover, Mr Greene’s weak verbosity is also irresponsible not taking account that many people’s lives depend on psychotherapy.
Never been a people person...I don't need or want group or individual attention. Contentment is the goal, look inside, alone, not to another person. Most of us can't be honest with ourselves so we prefer distractions. Much love to both of you, thank you.❤❤
I think artists and scientists whose laudable work goes unrecognized until after their death demonstrate the highest form of character. Their sacrifice demonstrates a level of faith few have. With such personal achievements comes a deeper satisfaction and intimacy with our creator when we are being who we are designed to be. And, such enduring works should take on a meaning greater than fleeting whims of ‘happiness’. Having children is another expression of this principle. Dignity resonates in the execution of it all.
@williamvonschenk2273 Well said, and very good points you make about character and faith. No life is easy, but some lives do end up being more meaningful than others, in hind-sight...Often hind-sight is the clearest vision to have when we look from present-sight.
Robert Greene is an extremely dangerous center of cultural influence. He plays victim and somehow his multitude of bosses were the all bad ones when he clearly was the common denominator who 'deserved' better. He outlines how to use unethical behavior to overcome 'bad people' and then claims he's not promoting those behaviors. Look at his life, nothing he has done shines as a person who has given back to society, all fingers point towards covert narcissism. His teaching fester evil and promote falls hopes by stirring division in response to perceived tyranny. He's a very evil man with a false sense of meekness, his underpinnings are wrought with destructive teachings with a clear path to the elimination of the interweaving's of a healthy society. Wake up people!
Totally agree with Robert Greene on therapy. I grew more through working out and boxing for 3 months than 10+ years of therapy talking about abuse. Putting the anger of missed opportunities to the bag did more for me than being absorbed talking about my problems in therapy.
is it possible that people are different? What works for one, doesn't for another? Is it possible this asshole is just selling books like everyone else?
This is true. I took a job in 1981 right out High School going into Telecommunications field. Before I took the job I didn’t know how to do anything. I’ve been doing it now for 43 years and I enjoy it and like helping people at work socializing with my fellow co workers. I am 61 years old now and I’m starting to think of retirement. I have about another 6 years to go but I am not sure how I am going to feel once I do retire.
I have to agree with the guest this time. I do enjoy that flow and though my art might not ever grace museums, it makes no difference to me because it serves a wonderful purpose of intellectual exercise for myself. And I do feel that a lot of artists today get away from that. But I don't expect anything. To quote Mark Rothco, to illustrate my point." "When I was a younger man, art was a lonely thing. No galleries, no collectors, no critics, no money. Yet, it was a golden age, for we all had nothing to lose and a vision to gain. Today it is not quite the same. It is a time of tons of verbiage, activity, consumption. Which condition is better for the world at large I shall not venture to discuss. But I do know, that many of those who are driven to this life are desperately searching for those pockets of silence where we can root and grow. We must all hope we find them."
Mine is financial investing / wealth creation. It is exciting and rewarding to me. I am 70 now. It has economically sustained me and others (10), and the 'longer I live', the more wealth I expect to attain. It is important to me (my purpose) to provide even after my death. I am meaningful, I am important, I am emphatic. That is all I need to keep my hope and health going. Action versus talk for me. FYI - I am not spoiling, but preparing for the 'huge cost of living in America' today and going forward. Might as well have the stock market help me, and my heirs...that is my plan, until the end.
Tesla might have died sad and lonely, but he had a lot a affirmation from his society along the way and, I imagine, a lot of fulfilment. Just imagine the fulfillment of inventing something and seeing it works! Same with all great works of art - the creator knew it was great before society made up its mind one way or another - there's no reason for us to pity great artists who never lived to be called great - they knew. Rather pity the mediocrity who was lauded by his society but knew in his heart of hearts that he had failed.
It's really sad how stupid Tom's obsession with Musk is. It's like watching a teenager who is wants a graphing calculator he thinks will get the nerdy kids to be friends with him...
Here's my take on Tom's formula: pursuing and reaching a goal, especially one that you perceive as difficult but worthwhile, triggers the 'happy' hormone dopamine, but the caveat is that it's a game of diminishing returns and afterwards you need a bigger goal to feel the same way again. Getting respect produces a burst of serotonin, although the degree to which someone needs external validation of their skills and achievements depends on their personality type and how much value they place on external versus internal validation. Some people trust their own perception of their self-worth (negative or positive) over others' opinions, for various psychological reasons. There may sometimes be a link to the release of oxytocin, which is triggered when someone feels a social connection with the group (which the human brain may process as 'strength in numbers' and improved odds of survival). But there is no objective unit to measure 'fulfilment' in different people, so I think it just comes down to the subjective experience of 'happy chemicals' at a point in time. Here's a guest suggestion: Loretta Graziano Breuning, author of "Habits of a Happy Brain".
Always helpful to hear that from straight white men in America at this time in history - what originality! What insight! Never heard it before from someone like him! Astounding that he would have that perspective!
💥 In life, the ultimate achievement, is the inner discovery of the self transcendent being, which is the fountain of all happiness and truth. Nothing that you achieve externally will give you everlasting joy. There's nothing to accomplish, but to live a life in which you discover what you really are. And when you remain in that state of consciousness, your joy is shared among others. You become a bright beacon to the world. ❤
I’m fulfilled doing things alone. I don’t need other peoples attention. Those are sheep that always need validation from groups of people. It’s like their goal is popularity and to please people around them
That was a really insightful video. I agree that true contentment comes from looking inward, not seeking validation from others. Most people are too afraid to be honest with themselves, so they distract themselves with external things. Much love to you both - keep up the great work! Hey, any chance you could bring Jarry Sargent Healer on your show? I think he'd have some really interesting perspectives to share.
Franz Kafka, one of the most influential artists of the last 100 years or so never saw success in life and asked his friend to burn his manuscripts upon his death... fortunately the friend did not! Metamorphosis is so epic!!! Must read or listen to the audio book!!!
Pride is the most tyrannical feeling for humanity,, release all those bad feelings to the Creator because you do not need them. He is a great God and can handle them all. Thank you Jesús
I love Robert and I love Tom but they are wrong. The issue is not in spending too much time inside ourselves or being too absorbed by our own thoughts. The problem is not listening to the 6 yo child in us. The problem is ignoring this child and resuming whatever life we have built. Built not on love and passion but on suffering and people's expectations. I'm very much aligned with the IFS system by Dick Schwartz. This being said, thank you Robert and Tom to give us very well researched opinion on how best to live our life's. Your work has monumentally helped me.
If you spend all your time convincing yourself you are good, you will miss the time you could have spent becoming good at whatever craft, art or pursuit, such is the danger of desire.
Nothing has to be hard. We believe unless we don't torture ourselves unless we don't challenge ourselves, we don't accomplish anything. What i think, it's just our belief system and social conditioning which makes us literally test ourselves, throw ourselves in choppy waters
doing hard things is how you build credibility and respect with yourself and others, taking the easy road is seen as a sign of weakness for a reason, if you only chase easy goals, take easy wins, avoid struggle and discomfort, etc, then you are setting yourself up for catastrophic failure when you inevitably face adversity, strength and resilience are born from hardship, there is no other path to it.
Agree. 63 YO, lived with depressions and borderline all my life. The victim perpective ties one up and has no meaning to me, maybe it feels fine for the therapist being ”nice” for its own sake..?
4:05 yes that’s why talk therapy is useless for most men. “So how do you feel about that?” I’d rather get a root canal than be subjected to weeks of naval gazing like that
Is it really useless, there are times whereby by talking the therapist makes you realize that your belief is not helping as a result of which the emotion too disappears away.
Let’s play how to spot the narcissist😂. They start by asking a question then interrupt you answering only to fill in the blank themselves. In other words they don’t want to hear you they want to hear themselves
Oh no. I am seeing this go around lately. It may "suck" (not be appropriate or necessary) for some men, but for still many others, including myself, have found it instrumental in healing from my past.
I think talking about your problems can help if the therapist helps you confront and work to move past those issues. Unfortunately, oftentimes they will literally just have you talk about all the bad things in your life, without adequately addressing how to move past them. Therapy made me and many other men feel worse. We need action.
@@sephy980 thankfully, after shopping around, I found a therapist who challenged me, and it was effective. An effective therapist counts, too, for sure.
I get how people hate him talking too much on his podcasts and it's annoying. The way I see it though is Tom seems like an introspective guy and he processes his intuition outwards, so his interviewee can comment on it. He has spent long hours talking to many different smart people, and as he speaks about his experience and take on things, we can see that he's trying to wrestle and align his values with what everyone has to say by projecting it out.
Tom Bilyeu was surprised about talk therapy's ineffectiveness, but Tony Robbins in his book "Unlimited Power" actually says the same: that reliving negative emotions puts us into an unresourceful state, which is counter-productive. I was surprised about this as well.
Perhaps its because you don't trust that some of his opinions aren't blinded by the ambitious side of his personality. Maybe it's because you see that a professed and overly opinionated expert in a field of study is often mistaken for supreme confidence and blinding them from other influences. There's value is what he and his guests have to say but only if you listen enough to extract what's yours and not focus on weather they all think they are a prophetic Jesus.
In order to survive in late adulthood with that neurological functioning, it would require suffering it your entire life. Learning to live with it or let it eat you up. You don’t know what you ask for.
So I should be more like my grandfather who was a functional alcoholic and died in his 50s? He never complained he just quietly killed himself... if no one speaks up nothing is fixed
no you should move on. put the backpack down instead of using alcohol to deal with the backpain caused by carrying the past around. i spent years as a functional alcoholic. doesnt work very well.
Why is there different standards for women? I also haven’t had success with talk therapy because it doesn’t lead to any solutions or learning anything I don’t already know. So wouldnt action based therapy be better for both genders?
Simple biology. Men are creatures of action, women are creatures of pacifism. Both have their pros and cons, which is also why healthy relationships are beneficial for each partner's growth.@@Sy8ro
Making art is its own reward. Selfish, I guess, but many artists are fulfilled painting or writing in isolation - it’s a personality type, I think. If you think too much about making your art “serve the greater good”, I think you end up creating moralistic crap, by and large
Yeah... Who in their right mind makes art for other people? That might very well be what it's for, but I don't think that's where the majority of the satisfaction comes from. I've experienced way more satisfaction just making things than I have sharing them. Yeah, it sucks when nobody cares, but the fulfillment of praise, popularity or even deep connections with people, doesn't compare to the fulfillment of making things.
these people talk in bubble of fake reality... you only need to walk around and see how nobody interacts and what lack of society there is. There used to be a concept called mingling when I was younger, that has all gone now with social media ruining everything.
Tom, it's not like psychologists have this great record of really helping people by talking. It may feel better for a short time but if one has really bad problems...its off to the psychiatrist. Not bad,but not good either.
Describing ineffective psychotherapy is really unhelpful. An experienced therapist does not remain focused on the wounds of the past but acknowledges them in order that the client gain broader perspective and initiate changes the client deems important to them.
@@kcchiefsproductions8687 I understand where your position comes from. There’re different kinds of therapists out there. I’ve worked with people like yourself who never thought therapy could work for them. I don’t create a space for clients to talk about their problems. I create a space for clients to observe their minds and become at peace within themselves.
Work is stressful. I'm unfulfilled and it's going away because people are being taught my profession on RU-vid. I am no longer needed in the group. 35 years of adulthood and every fucking day has sucked, is unfulfilling and no point.
What is your profession? I'm sad to know that you have difficult time in the workplace. I hope you will find meaning in life and be able to find a way to support yourself.
Imagine going to a doctor and hearing "You have diabetes." You: "Okay, what am I supposed to do about that?" Him: "You're not supposed to do anything." You: "How do other people treat diabetes?" Him: "Don't compare yourself to other people." You: ...... Him: "You're caught in a spiral of diabetes!" That's been my experience with therapy.
Tesla was targeted and his inventions suppressed because he threatened the control of companies profiting from old technologies. His laboratory was burned down to this end and he was rubbished with propaganda against home. This caused his sadness and failure in the end.
Sounds like the “advice” of an avoidant attachment pattern at risk for a panic attack. The me generation experienced more stay at home mothers in a reality where a high school diploma could get a decent job to support a one income household. This wasn’t the reality of millennial and Z childhoods. And most importantly, it wasn’t the reality we experienced during early childhood. Thus, it’s not just a theory to think insecure attachment creates adult attachment issues; MRIs demonstrate a noticeable impact on our HPA axis and amygdala.
I love Robert Greene, but as a psychoanalytically oriented therapist, I disagree with his statements about psychotherapy. The goal of ALL psychotherapies is to create ego strength/mentalization. Especially the CBT based therapies. The whole point of psychoanalysis was the create a stronger, self-observing ego. To be less self-absorbed and have a healthier understanding of oneself and others. I can’t believe my man missed that 😂
Your video Is reality real the answer-I will give you a hint remember Jesus said that if you can see the smallest thing you would see God. Now Let me give you a hint. If you dream you create a world you are living in. You can not hold it together long enough to live a life time in. But think you have the power of the mind of God you could create the world and create everything in it and you create the other people in the dream, but unlike you the other beings are a part of you even though the thinking they do is not the dream creation it is a part of you in them, now you have the basic answer.
The interviewer loves to hear himself talk. opposite of Joe Rogan. And FYI, the Bible has been saying all this truth for thousands of years. Just accept it: Jesus was God. The rest makes sense after admitting that. But no, you don't want to submit to a Creator God, so you "intellectuals" will keep contradicting, then agreeing with each other over the decades.
The criticism he makes about talk therapy is not how talk therapy works. Lol it's a fairly typical advice by people who make their money off giving advice. "Don't take their professional advice mine ia better"
The issue with men is that they don’t naturally have as much introspective insight, intuition, or social intelligence to truly know themselves. Men struggle to connect the dots consciously to understand their subconscious mind. A lot of it comes from not believing in their ability to feel or their right to feel. So yes, talk therapy would help men understand themselves to then continue going forward successfully in the physical world. Ignoring yourself doesn’t help anyone.
