@haku1082 I hope that I like it, but the Titan zero (in development) is very different to the Titan 1, I'm just not sure it would work as well for me, but I'm planning to give it a go, Olaf has said he'd like to send me one so I'll keep you all posted in an update later on
@@LogPile444 I see, makes sense. I'm not sure if you mentioned it during video but what pads did you test it with? I'm mostly curious about glass and cloth comparison and if using the titan favors one or the other more than "regular" mice (or maybe some fingertip like the hsk)
I'm not sure it was clear in the video what was the advantage of the rear-release style switch. Other than being different, what was the additional functionality?
@@cypher6083 It allows you to actuate mouse click switch faster, apparently up to 10ms faster than a Razer viper. The way it does this is by adding a pivot point creating an see saw effectively. Since the side of the see saw that presses on the switch is longer then the side you press ur finger on u get a displacement multiplalier on the longer switch side so the thing poking the switch actual moves faster then ur finger is pressing. This comes at the cost of increasing the actuation force to click (or un click) the switch but these modern switches have such a light actuation pressure that it probably isn't noticeable. As far as the flipped switch feature, (clicking the mouse releases the switch rather than presses the switch) i imagine this leverages some imbalance between the bottomed out and latched state vs unlatched (0 pressure) and latched state.
@@cypher6083 I believe it registers the input quicker, meaning reduced input delay and a quicker response from click to in-game input. This is something most humans will not be able to perceive, but it is still a technological advancement in the correct direction.
The switch that reduces mechanical latency, by triggering upon release rather than bottoming out, was already produced by EngameGear in their OP18K mouse. The switch is called the Kailh GX. Genius stuff
this was out before the op1 8k, though the switch was made before this and used in the xm2we which didn't have the processing power to handle the algorithm
The next evolution in gaming mouse technology is a switch that reads your subconscious neural impulses to click before you even consciously know you want to click.
Just for the sake of your own knowledge, the way you 3d print titanium is by using powder and lasers. A thin precise layer of powder is laid out, and a laser sinters the powder together where you want the object to be solid. Then another thin layer is laid on top, and the process repeated, layer by layer.
@@Sanguivore depends theres cast and forged and milled. Cast is usually the weakest but the cheapest and fastest. Forged is the best for price and performance usually the best overall without the budget getting out of hand. Lastly milled is usually done for prototypes since its very slow but yields the best results with a simple milling machine. In terms of strengh you want forged or milled since 3d printing is fairly weak but the benefit of 3d its that it can make any shape or form without any special tools aside from the printer.
@@Sanguivore It's worse in some applications because there tends to be microcavities formed in the microscopic gaps between the powder grains. But, it's also way easier to make than most other titanium parts, and you can make shapes that are impossible to make otherwise.
So unfortunate this isnt being sold I was really looking forward to picking one up. Also a super easy solution to the cable is to just run it up your arm and then into the PC. If it were me I would just run it up my armsleeve so no matter where i move my mouse the wire never comes into play, it would essentially just be wireless. Just grab the mouse as your putting on the sleeve and when you pop out the other end it will be routed. If you dont wear a sleeve you could just secure it at your elbow or somewhere else thats comfortable with a rubber band. Aside from making it feel wireless it would also make you look like you got cyberware implants for a mouse into your finger, straight outta cyberpunk lol.
bro they been selling mice like this on Swiftpoint for years. theirs have more buttons too. I would never use the one in this video without having to first get some kind of even crazier gauntlet thing for my left hand tho. my g502 has 6 additional ultra ergonomic buttons, plus one reasonably pressable one and the mouse wheel button. I absolutely love it for that. pressing E to interact with stuff in an FPS is one thing, but I personally cannot move my pinky between shift and control. If thats the case, how you gonna input movement while sliding? How you gonna activate your abilities while strafing? Theres way too much stuff to do while moving, and I still feel guilty for only using 3 fingers to WASD. Mouse buttons are a need imo. and besides that, the 3360 is not a good sensor. Not from my experience. My experience was that the 3360 was probably the last sensor made that truly is not accurate enough to be called reliable hardware.
@@pinnacleexpress420 well I checked that website and upon initial look it seems like all of their mice with "pen point grip" have 1800 DPI sensors, make no advertisement what sensor is used from what I could tell, and don't advertise the polling rate or the latency. So given the pricepoint I wouldn't say that those mice are really any better off. At least this mouse has low latency, higher advertised polling, albeit expensive and with a bad wire. Still would have been cool to try it out though, especially with it sticking out the side like that it could be routed in a way to feel wireless despite the bad wire. Everyone has their own preferences but anything beyond the two side buttons on most gaming mice is unnecessary IMO, and that isn't really necessary either, just nice to have. We've got plenty of dexterity and range of motion to be able to access two additional keys on the keyboard, just has a learning curve. Also as far as I know the 3360 is what all of the wired Zowie mice used, and those mice were supposedly solid fantastic performers. Maybe it's because they are wired and that alone can bridge the gap between 3360 sensors. Sensor doesn't really matter as much as you think it does, so long as its a good implementation, such as the Zowies. That's just my opinion though.
@@pinnacleexpress420 The propoint is clearly meant more for office work than for gaming, so not really comparable. It's like comparing an MX master or MX vertical to a G PRO X. Also, this mouse is clearly a prototype and for a low or nonexistent production run, using an inexpensive 3360 is more than good enough. The thing about mouse keys is well... subjective at best, I know quite a lot of people that don't use more than the 3 main switches on a mouse (M1, M2, MM), also its fully possible to bind Mouse up and Mouse down for using abilities in game. I currently use Mouse down for jump and Mouse up for my fast use abilities.
@@pinnacleexpress420 have u tried using your 2nd knuckle of your pinky to press the ctrl, and the tip to press shift? maybe if your pinky is too wide then you cant press ctrl without knocking down the shift key too
I know gear wont make me better alone, but damn is this intriguing. I used to play a lot of OSU and always fantasized about being able to use my tablet in fps games but never looked into it because it seemed more hassle than it was worth. This seems like an awesome in-between and I'd love to try one. I dont think I'd ever be able to unless the files were released to build your own because disposable money is hard to come by for me and it doesnt seem like this is the type of operation that would make a production out of these and hold stock indefinitely, so the odds of me having the money to spend and them being available for purchase lining up are not high in the slightest.
@3:20 -- You can "rotate" the sensor with something like RawAccel. It's a practical necessity for almost everyone considering the number of people that "adapt their grip" or aiming mechanics to the ergos of a mouse based on how it all twists the sensor slightly. This little feature was a godsend when I started aim training and wanted to perform flicks, never being able to keep a good horizontal line with the mice I had on hand.
This is crazy to me, I've had the same MSI DS200 for years just because the ergonomics are close enough and I've always been able to draw perfect horizontal lines regardless of what arc I move the mouse in. Trying to upgrade to a G502 but I hate the ergonomics of it so much that I'm just gonna rip the board out and probably 3d print some nylon shell for it.
If the "twist" or wrist angle is the problem, you can rotate the sensor with RawAccel and there are ways to start the driver with windows without having to open the basic GUI software.
The pragmatic solution by fitting the cable through the gap that naturally forms under your thumb is so satisfying to see from a design perspective. Using what is freely available instead of adding unnecessary structure.
i have one and some people dislike the cable coming out the back but imo its 100x better than coming out the front. I almost never notice the cable compared to other mice where i need bungies for because the cable is awful.
That's actually genius, especially to lower latency further, never thought of that! Did think of the pen grip stuff of course, so it's cool to see someone actually trying various ideas to make it work.
I actually remember seeing this on reddit too. IIRC he had a small manufacturing run on discord but it was out of my price range but man if this thing isn't cool AF.
You can print a lot of metals via SLS, selective laser sintering. Basically you put down metalic powder and weld/melt it in place via a laser and do that layer by layer. It's really expensive to do compared to plastic, but probably much cheaper than casting, as the shape would probably need something like a lost wax method.
I had no clue gaming mice went THIS hard on optimization. Coulda figured... I'm in the 3D printing community but like you, I had no idea printing freaking TITANIUM was a thing! This is awesome content man, new sub for sure.
I wouldnt mind the weight of a battery for losing the cable. I used to put the most possible weight in my adjustable weight mouse. I felt its more stable/smooth that way. But i like the design of this one.
this is crazy cool, joined his discord and will be keeping an eye on future stuff for sure. High price and the scroll wheel being hard to use are unfortunately dealbreakers for me, and no scroll click is a bummer. This grip type looks very ibteresting and I'm excited to see what comes of it
The fact that it looks like a SAW trap is to me, a huge bonus. I love pieces of tech that look awful and work better than anything else created up until now
Nice review. I have a suggestion on your videos. The mic seems to pick up a lot of higher end frequency and make your voice sibilant. I recommend either eq down the high frequency or wrap the mic with tissue or cloth.
@@LogPile444 Sibilance can be reduced by adjusting mic angle (putting it at a bit more of an upward angle can help), physical de-essing (shield), editing with a de-esser, or... no joke, hydrating more. Your voice gets more sibilant with lack of hydration.
Now I actually understand how that click works. I remember asking about that click button before. This mouse really look like a mechanical piece of art, even using a algorithm to remove excess material without sacrificing structural integrity. I would love to get my hands on this mouse if I ever could. I also have 1 question,i usually watch my videos at 1.75x - 2x speed and I'm wondering if it interferes with the watch time because I do watch entire video. Do it show like half the watch time because I'm watching it at a faster speed?
@hwelp Haha I honestly have no idea if it affects watch time (it doesnt bother me at all providing you enjoyed the content). The mouse is beautiful dude, I genuinely have such a blast with it
@@LogPile444 Honestly I like when companies and creators are bold in making their mice. A lot of mice are really generic and i want to actually see more creativity and innovation. Mice like these are extremely rare but so cool.
Believe it or not it actually might affect watch time, I remember watching a video where someone made a video that was sped up so that if people watched at .25x speed it was normal and got watch time that exceeded the 12-15 seconds of the video The algorithm thought it was being watched/replayed multiple times because the duration to watch time ratio was so skewed. It really pushed the video in the algorithm more than the guys other vids. So either you get the same watch time or potentially even less if we apply the same logic from the previous example, but in reverse since you speed up the vids. Despite all of that one person doing that prob won't make much of a difference anyways, and you watching the video in its entirety I think is still counted positively towards Log.
yes it does affect watch time the @thespiffingbrit has made a couple vids about it ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-29_0_wNR7yY.htmlsi=59qfCyopFIAQiuHE
First 😁! So much innovation in this little finger mouse! Need more creativity like this in the gaming mouse space! It's a pity, it's not available anymore! Looking forward to his new creation! 👍
Another thing you can do for your wrists, is to use some form of wrap. I use wrist wraps to support my wrists sometimes and it definitely relieves the tension or stress caused by the typical improper support I run into when using my mouse in a way that feels natural.
This is an incredible and interesting design. I'm no engineer, but I think I can shed some light on the processes/design philosophies he used. There are various printing techniques, all with their own material capabilities. There are some ways to use typical FDM printers to get metal parts, but he most likely used an SLS printer (selective laser sintering) to make the parts. The LMB switch seems to be a microswitch that is set up as an NC switch (normally closed). That means that the switch is depressed in its default state, and your input is actually releasing the contact instead of engaging it like normal. That can lead to reduced actuation distance. The process of eliminating unnecessary material is known as topology optimization, and it does exactly what he said. It essentially removes all material possible while maintaining the model's ability to handle stress and strain in specific areas of your choice. I really like the prototype, but if I had one minor criticism, it would be purely aesthetic. If you're going to use titanium, you should either polish or anodize it to get a nice finish haha.
metal 3d printing had been around since the late 80s to early 90s. im not sure which method was used here, but how its been done for a long time is with a metal powder mixed with a binder. a thin layer of the mixture is laid down, then the layer of the part it kinda drawn with a laser, then the next layer, so on and so on. you're left with a tub of the metal powder mixture with the part buried inside, so you dont need supports or anything. then the loose metal powder mixture is collected to be reused and you're left with the part. then the part is baked in a kiln under heat and pressure.
3:20 He should probably create a sort of calibration wizard, which would offset the angle at which people hold their mouse, resulting in proper movement regardless of the style of grip
a wrist strap that routes the cable up your arm would eliminate the perception of drag. back when i had wired mice i would move the cable to the rear of the case for this and the difference is a noticeable improvement.
To be clear, one of the reasons people *dont* do the "release button" solution. Basically, it switches the failure state of the switch from 'out of action' to 'in action', so the switch has a much higher potential failure rate. (Always 'active' instead of 'inactive' mechanically) Importantly, this usually doesnt matter, as switches are pretty well made at this point, but it is important to note. Also also, hilariously, many windows / google opearations are actually set to activate on the 'unclick' by default, so i imagine that changing some of that by software would be quite simple and likely reduce failure rates
The creator should make a business to sell these. Competitive players would definitely want to try this thing and honestly the innovative pioneering feels kinda romantic, it's like the era when Soviet engineers try their hands on everything
This is an interesting project and I understand that the focus was on latency and weight reduction. 0:57 But oh dear, imagine all the hand gunk clogging up all that space. Could there be an option for smooth and easy to clean surfaces? Also I don't like the right mouse button on the right side. If you press it, you happen to involuntarily twitch the mouse to the left which may hinter aiming in some situations, and is especially severe for a lightweight mouse like this. Also the gripping style and no mouse3 button is not for me. So there is no haunting in the foreseeable future in my case.
This is amazing. Thank your for bringing this to people’s attention!! I sincerely hope he’s gonna be able to make this less of a limited run product at some point.
@weiwu1442 That is potasium, magnisium is just has a low ignition point and burns hot. It's used for fire starters. But what they use in mice and other things is an alloy.
what about shaky hands? that's the reason i use low sens, i get other people just do it for more control but there are other reasons for people not wanting to use high sens. it isn't always just about not "wanting" to, it's more about making the game playable or not for some.
ive been interested in getting into art but i cant be bothered to use a pen/pencil and paper call me weird, but the next model of the pen mouse with the detachable part, that could be nice for me to use to get into art
I've always wondered why mice didn't take on more ergonomic and not "mouse-like" designs taking into account the amount of stuff we grip normally. I believe mice like these are the future honestly.
You could try wearing a fingerless glove/sleeve and running the wire though it. Would be a pain if you want to get up ever, but I'm sure the wire would be less annoying there. Could also try something like a velcro wrist band and a small piece of velcro glued to the wire to connect it.
i believe the endgame gear op1 8k has a similar mechanism to the button clicks where the click is counted as soon as the actuator is released as opposed to when it hits the metal contact below it its not set by default but it is an option on that mouse within its settings
I did a little bit of thinking and although I agree a click that releases instead of engages on click will be quicker, at least for the first click, after that it will be the same because it will introduce normal denouncing after you release.
3d printing exotic metals is one thing my machine shop does, pretty nutty stuff on how it comes out perfect looking with a nice machine. better finishes than CNC machined parts
What comes to mind for me about pen grip is the idea of relating a mouse to a pen. I'm left handed but use the mouse right handed. I've used computers for at minimum 30 years, the idea of using a mouse like a pen is a foreign concept to me because they're different tools.
Have you considered brushing rubber cement on the scroll wheel? Very. Slightly. With a q tip. And let dry before rotating to apply to other end. Just to apply the thinnest possible layer of rubberized surface for more mousewheel grip.
He basically turned the button aspect of a mouse trigger into an actual trigger mechanism. Most mice you just press down on the bendy plastic piece, or some hinged plastic sheet, etc, that just presses down on the switch. But this is a counter lever design instead, which makes it effectively just like a trigger would be proper.
They should add a means to calibrate the sensors angle. That way people with different levels of wrist curvature can comfortably hold the mouse like they would a pen.
i sat there for a minute trying to figure out how you'd actually hold the thing lol unfortunately i cherish my thumb buttons far too much, but other than that this looks like something id be very interested in trying out.
As a high sens user who only enjoys 1 mouse at the moment which is only rendered in very old technology and can't use most other mice or any grips due to excessive sweating; You're right, this haunts me knowing I missed an opportunity like this one...
The idea of tiny, super light, but ergonomic and precise, is a very interesting idea. I'm not so sure about the "pen" part of the concept, since I think that actually compromises on ergonomics for no real benefit. The shape of a pen is really restricted by how we need to turn pens in various angles and positions, it's not that it's ideal in any particular orientation
I think the best way to avoid the cable and slack is by using a wrist band and passing the mouse through it, that way your arm acts as the bungie itself.
Interesting design. I though about this too, but with more natural hand tilt. This one seems to be rather flat and make you drag you thumb along with a hand making it not that different from just a small mouse. Also for anyone interested, you can try gaming on a graphical tablet. You'll only need to solve the problem with clicks, since the buttons on them aren't meant for clicking as often as left click. The new design seems to be better.
this is the absolute opposite of what i'm dreaming off. a reasonablely light and weighted full palm (thus quite gigantic) supporting mouse, with a thumb mounted scroll wheel, action buttons between left and right... or a way to keep the grip on the mouse while using the action buttons. there's two fingers unused anyway.
Makes me wonder if integrating the mouse into a glove of sorts could be used to reduce both strain and potential loss of grip. It could even be used to supplant some of the mechanical structure and solve the cord issue by integrating it into the glove in a more comfortable fashion. Perspiration certainly could be an issue though.
Great if you have baby hands but my hands cramp on standard sized laptop mice. I use a good old wireless trackball mouse. Nothing will ever replace that intuitive, comfortable design for me. I lay the palm of my hand on the mouse and my fingers simply fall into place for the buttons and ball. With a flick of my thumb (mouse never moves) I can go across my whole super ultrawide screen (5120x1440p) I can't imagine trying to mouse over that distance.
Awesome stuff I also would like innovation on the many-button mouse style. I feel like there’s still a lot of potential there-for games that require both a lot of button presses, and precision aiming
I suggest if they can implement/engineer a physical sensor angle adjustor (like u can twist and lock) so no matter how you hold the mouse you always can find the sweet spot.
3:16 you can combat the sensor's rotation with RawAccel's option "rotation", basically rotating your sensor with software. Been using this for a while now. Very interesting stuff, hope a lot of people will try these types of mouse. It's time for a real change. I wanna buy a tiny fingertip mouse so bad, but none of them are ergo (LMB higher than RMB), except optimum's zerømouse which is also kinda prototype and discontinued... :S
@@tawoorie Thanks for the info! Won't get it tho, it's very open/unprotected & I'm a heavy smoker, deadly combination. 😅 Now that I look at it, also very unsure about the forced finger positions and fixed distances. And no ridge-clicking & bad fingertip-skating angles (if those are the real words, I just remember Struth calling the techniques sth like that), I do both since forever... :S
I love the size and the form factor but the advertised price of this is waaaaaay out of my league. A hardware only version that required you to print the shell out yourself would be cool
