If you use this as the generator on a hybrid car, always running it in its optimal power band, you have a huge improvement over the small piston engines used today in cars like the Prius. Knock hundreds of pounds out of the gross weight, and free up a lot of internal space in the car.
I was also thinking, the design seems like it'll have an optimum RPM range, so projects where that's true would be the best choice. generators are one, and possibly airplane engines using variable pitch blades to control thrust is another.
@@kekethetoad potentially. However my opinion of CVT transmissions is fairly low, predominantly because manufacturers are specifying horrific maintenance intervals which is causing them to fail rather early in their life cycle.
yes and ebikes.. the energy density of the battery is why they are terrible. downscaled it could be like have 2000 watts with far less weight. although that presents challenges the whole tear drop shape ultra efficient 3 wheel vehicle starts to make sense, as well as in robotics where batteries and vibrating piston engines cant work. the only power source for an android robot is reserved for small space proves and wont be let out into the general population even ithey they had enough of it. why question how loud is it.. how do 4 small rotors stak. i would guess they scale by adding more units..
Dont 4get the character of the individual engines. The less efficient it is the more character it has, the more skill it requires to go fast and stay consistent
I’m always a fan of new and viable ICE designs. I’m such a believer of Liquid Piston that I just invested into the company. Let’s see those contracts come in!
Their next technology demonstrator should be at least a dual-rotor 500hp engine that runs on diesel fuel. This would put it in the class of semi-tractor/trailer over the road transportation. It would also be able to show usable fuel mileage numbers.
Funny, it does look more like a 2-stroke engine, with the ports in the "piston" instead of the cylinder... I didn't quite get the idea about how the seals work, or are made to last...maybe they just burn oil, or use the fuel as a hydrodynamic seal...I dunno..
same with wankel maybe? but it fixed on the chamber rather on the rotor, and you can run oil trough the slit in the seal mount. So, better seal durability, and less oil burned. Just my thought.
This one looks to be better than the Wenkel because the seals don't pass over the gaps for the spark plugs. If the RPM in a Wenkel engine gets high enough the spark plug recession can allow burning fuel from a previous cycle to pass into the next cycle early and cause backfiring. (As seen in one of Rob Dahm's recent videos) In addition, this engine block won't be unevenly heated like a Wenkel is. (Though this one's rotor will be unevenly heated, whereas the Wenkel rotor is evenly heated.)
@@tobysatriayudha4564 the idea is that the intake air flows through the hot side of the rotor and cools it. There are even cooling fins inside the intake channels to improve rotor cooling.
I love rotarys and have been following the liquid rotary engine since it's development. When they designed this motor they looked at all engines, their benefits, and flaws, and literally addressed all of them. This has huge potential, and I will be super excited to see the future of this engine
It's taken them a while to have an actual demo. I remember when it was just in the modeling stage. If the seal lubrication system actually works well this one may actually find some success.
LP is selling evaluation units right now for around $30K to OEM investigating product development. The model they're selling develops three horsepower and weighs four pounds.
With its exceptional power/weight and power to frontal area ratio, this engine would also be ideal for aircraft. Picture a King Air with only 1/3 of the weight of its current horizontal-opposed piston engines, and nacelles that can be far more streamlined.
"Picture a King Air with only 1/3 of the weight of its current horizontal-opposed piston engines, and nacelles that can be far more streamlined." You are in luck! Today, you can actually take a picture of a King Air with 1/3 of the weight of horizontal-opposed piston engines with nacelles that are streamlined. at any airport with a King Air, and see them with their original pair of Pratt & Whitney PT6 turboprop engines. (tic)
It is still a metal on metal contact engine. The reason rotary engines failed was because unlike a traditional piston engine that only makes contact with the walls of the combustion chamber with a spring loaded thin metal ring, rotary engines didnt just use a bigger metal surface to make contact with the chamber walls but its entire working required it to do it constantly, at very high speed and with force scraping sideways so no part of the chamber remained untouched. That means once it has reached the end of its durability, no mechanic can rebuild it correctly due the odd shape of the inner chamber (piston chambers are cylindrical and boring equipment are made for cylindrical cavities). When working with metals simple shapes can be recreated with much higher precision and lower cost then odd shapes like oblong or triangle which need a far more specialized and expensive metal cutting tool. I'd say the engine was designed to be discarded after use with the intent of preventing engine builders from fixing it. It is an all too common ploy used by chinese manufacturers to increase their sales volume by sacrificing customer confidence and product durability.
The cycle is approximately 30% more efficient than an Otto or Diesel cycle engine with their most favorable tests, and has about 5x power density over Otto and almost 10x power density over Diesel, so that motor can fit into a ton of really small places. Or be one big awesome motor if sized the same as the traditional ones.
@@mdj391 Durability, Emmisions, Hp. There are a lot of things more important than raw hp/weight. I don't see the benefits over this, when a 2 stroke engine covers all the same bases, while being more durable. It will also have the same downfalls of a 2 stroke and rotary. Those oblong chambers aren't going to burn as efficiently as traditional chambers will. Unburnt fuel will make it way outside of the exhaust port leading to poor efficiency. Same problem rotary engines had, exactly why they burnt so much fuel. Durability is still questionable. You still going to have to oil this, with oil in the combustion chamber. Its not a death sentence, but finding the balance between having a short lived motor and passing emissions is going to be a challenge. Ultimately i can't see a use for it. If i wanted the least amount of weight and high hp i would run a 2 stroke engine for small applications or motorcycles. Big applications there isn't much use because the 4 strokes have been ironed out to almost perfection. The only application i see is generator/electric vehicle hybrids. Constant rpm/ low weight/ efficient. But then why not rotary. They excel at generator function too.
@@richr161 why traditional rotaries are bad as generators? Simply because they die quickly when run at fuel optimal rpm's. For a rotary to last they need to rev high. Which is also why they aren't great for everyday cars. The redesigned rotary with its 3 combustions per cycle fix the low rpm problems.
4 strokes in bigger application suck to, i hate them in cars trucks also and i like the 2 stroke XTS 210 2 stroke version of this engine. Also looking at Rotax and achates power 2 strokes also
Yes. I absolutely love the idea of this design, being the revival of rotary engines! With Rob Dahm bringing the hype, in his 4 rotor? Imagine if he were to pioneer the first upscaled version? Oh dude, I hope. I really wish!
He would be the one to afford it but does he know about this technology? According to the comments 30k$ for 3hp so how much money would that be for a 300hp LP? 300k?
@@christianmarshall584 While 300hp sounds nice and all (dune buggy or quad of some type). I'm thinking BiGgEr, let's see what a 1000hp version looks like and compare it to the top vehicles that run this much power. Because IMHO THAT'S what will get everyone's undivided attention. Beat (or even compete with), a built Hellcat, Raptor, Ducati etc, or push a tractor trailer down the road with competitive fuel rates and people won't stop talking about it.
With three combustion cycles per revolution, what would be the fuel efficiency? Additionally, if it's humming along at 15,000 RPM within its maximum power band to produce 5HP, what would be the equivalent fuel consumption per HP against a standard 5HP ICE?
Because it does 3 combustion cycles per revolution, it sounds like a 20B rotary! And that's pretty awesome cause I think the 20B is the best sounding production Wankel rotary engine!
Also another benefit of this design I think is that it will heat up the entire engine equality, instead of only having only one side where the combustion happen.
Oh, SUPER quiet. Haha, jk. The fact that they eliminated the apex seals is huge in itself. I'll be interested to see how the intake and exhaust seals hold up. As far as I know, they've never been incorporated into the rotating assembly.
The seals are actually just as good as modern ICE because of how they do it. They were actually featured on Discovery for their process. Check their website.
Only problem I can think of is the centripetal force from the extreme RPMs might cause the material to destroy itself but maybe not, would be interesting to find out
liquid piston? this is a different take on the rotary. why no compression strips? that tells me this would have to be extremely fine tolerance's when using petroleum's due to emission's, that is why the rotary engines had them.
It has the same flaw as a Wankle engine, it needs super precision CNC machined rotor and housing a traditional piston achieves the precision by drilling, much much faste/ easier/cheaper and reliable.
Interesting little Engine, maybe this was what Felix should have made. If it can be enlarged and developed in this EV age, I’d be interested in it’s power to economy figures, it could allow a Grom sized bike with the power of my GSX1100 …. That would be a real fun Sleeper …
The biggest problem I see is the same as all rotary style engines have. Blowby coming from the flat sides. You can either lube the crap outta the sides and burn oil or settle for short lived engines. You could run oil in the fuel but then you'd still be burning oil. I think it would take some kind of advancement in micro particle anti friction oil additives to allow the high enough tolerances for the motor to be reliable.
What if I release plans to build this engine under a creative commons license? I think I might get in trouble with patents, it would be interesting. Require a fairly snazzy bit of casting
4:37 Ya , highly about time This can be an outboard motor or an aircraft motor even as a diesel . Using the blade to vent and retrieve fuel is genius that the designers of the Wankel didn't get ..!
Thank you Chris, I have been around engines most of my life. This engine that you are showing, has a lot going for it. 1, less moving parts. 2, less waste of energy due to being a rotatory type. 3, If it was multiplied up to six rotors, it would fit in between the chasse of any commercial truck! What's not like? Have a nice day.
This one has definitely caught some attention, even in the modeling stage. Unfortunately there's a lot of apathy when it comes to new engine designs because many exaggerate the potential of their engines. The difference with this one, in my opinion, is it isn't actually a radically new design. It's a "radically improved" version of an existing proven design. Like you said, it has a lot going for it. I do wonder if stacking rotators with this design is practical though.
@@CynHicks I was thinking why not scale up first rather than stack them unless he means to do both if so from the numbers I've read that would be a crazy over kill but fun to see!
A commercial truck? So as with a rotary type it makes. Disma torque at lower rpm.. regardless of the rotor count. Not good idea for grunting up hills and mountains with a load of 80k... spin it u say? Well good luck getting the 1/2 million moles or more that they do.. much less 150k spinning that thing under a severe load
@@darin2009 Could it be that it could overcome this because of the extra cycles per revolution? Could it allow it to produce power at much lower rpms? I'm not an engineer but it makes sense to me. Also, even if it can't replace diesel low rpm torque many commercial trucks use gasoline for ligher duty hauling. If it can just compete with gasoline engine's low end torque while being able to idle as low it should be fine right?
@@CynHicks naw.. extra cycles won't help the low rpm trq loss. Due to the way it operates.. yea maybe better than a true rotary.. but by design and physics... when combustion happens... the piston/rotor/what ever ya wanna call it. Moves away from the ignition so fast and opens up a huge combustion area.. watch the vid slowly... there is almost zero dwell time fore pressure to rise at lower prm.prices.. ermm.. 4.5k and lower.. where all mass transit and trucks live... sure. It's awesome fore. High rpm power... but for a half a million miles to 1 million miles on a low rpm chugging working semi... just isn't feasible. Pulling power. Worked of pure low rpm is 4k and below. Diesel stump yanking nutz..nuts... a rotary in any iteration may do this with the proper gearing.... but for how long.... sorry.. builds to much heat on seals.. in any form... this is why a higher revving gasoline. Piston engine isn't used... pulling isn't about power... it's pure torque. And life expactancy..expectancy... a rotary.. sure. Power galore... but not for commercial use
This seems like it could easily displace the entire small-motor market sector, gas scooters, dirt bikes, atvs, snowmobiles, jetskis, lawn mowers, chainsaws, leaf blowers, snow blowers, backup generators, outboard motors, really anything using a two-stroke or a 1-2 piston 4-stroke hoyle be able to benefit. We might even see more use of electric transmission drive trains in small motor applications. I'd love to see one of these powering an electric drive train on a stretch ruckus.
I'm interested in seeing a hybrid version of this with the usage of regenerative braking in cars. For motorcycles using a dual rotary concept (power to each wheel) like this would redesign motorcycles. Riding a shiftless motorcycle isn't preferable.
Looks like the reverse of the Wankle. The Wankle has a triangular rotor and a figure 8 chamber. This has a triangular chamber and figure 8 rotor. What I want to know is the durability. How does it stand up to aircraft overhaul requirements, s piston and vs turbine
I like the idea. I would like to see data on lubrication and cooling it though - seems like that much power in that small a package would generate a lot of heat.
one main problem w the wankel engine is that it requires burning oil, which this does not do. Additionally, because the apex seals dont move, they are less likely to fail. As for cooling, there are plenty of innovative ways to cool things that are much hotter than this
I love the design of this engine, I've known about it for years. But I feel like you presented it in a way that was very, very optimistic, since it's not in production yet, or you make it sound like some of its properties are unique, when they're not. Here's your list: 1. Scalable -- My friends works at a power plant that has an on-demand generator: it's an inline 8 cylinder engines with pistons the size of a man. Reciprocating engines are scalable, too. 2. Quiet. I think the footage at the end of that go kart says it's not quiet, I wouldn't expect it to be quiet. 3. "No Vibrations" -- Their design seems to be more balanced than a reciprocating engine, but c'mon Also, most ICEs can be adapted to multiple fuels. Different grades of gasoline, propane, natural gas, or hydrogren for instance for engines with spark plugs, diesel, biodiesel, etc on the other side. I would love to think this engine can run both high-compression fuels like diesel, and low compression fuels like gas, without chanyges. I just don't see that as possible. Again, I fucking love this engine!! The first time I heard of a Wankle 20+ years ago, I dove deep and it tickled my brain. Then, years ago when I heard someone inverted the Wankle's geometry, I pooped my pants. I want this to work. I want to play with them. But that's gonna come from honesty. Being excited is great, but this video came off like it's perfect. I still subscribed though, hope to see you grow.
I came up with this exact same idea independently when I tried to solve the problem of apex seals. this is just a first pass at combustion sequence optimization. the apex seal problem has only been _mitigated_ with this design.
@@alternatemusicaddict5226 don't know how to link to it but here is a copy and paste: It’s great as a 4 stroke version of a wankel but still we have the seals issue. I really want these guys to succeed but I have not seen any innovation in the apex seal. I know there is a company in Portsmouth that rebuilds Mazda rotaries and has increased the life in those engines but I think there is still a way to go. It’s the one overriding advantage with cylinders, the seals don’t have to conform to a moving face. They can be oiled from one side and there can be many of them per chamber. Has anyone thought of using a needle bearing as the primary seal? Then a sliding seal behind the needle roller bearing? This way the sliding seal doesn’t have to move. The needle roller can turn at the appropriate speed to match the rotor passing over it so there would be no sliding force on the rotor.
I still want to know why the ‘apex seals’ aren’t serviceable from the outside of the rotor case. Could you not pull a service cover, remove, and replace?
Wankel engines have several flaws that are almost impossible to overcome. The seals are scraping the chamber walls requiring oil to be injected into the engine. The seals wear out requiring an engine tear down. They don't get good fuel economy. The combustion occurs in only one chamber causing a hot spot which makes even cooling difficult. This engine seems to overcome those flaws. I can hardy wait to see how they hold up in the real world.
They solved the problem with the apex seals like 20 years ago dude. And the engine fires on all three faces of the rotor. Delete the omp and premix the fuel so you're not burning crank case oil in the combination chamber.
You're kidding right? Go watch some of Rob dahms videos or angel motor sports. It's literally just making sure your clearances are right and make sure none of your side seal on the rotors are sticking and dowel the block to keep it from twisting when you start making power because these are basically Oreos and they twist
Exhaust gas temperatures in efficient high output engines reach in excess of 900 degrees centigrade and pistons are normally cooled by large and close contact with cylinder wall and oil spray under piston is often used. The rotor here with exhaust channel seem difficult to cool well. High temperatures may give sealing problems and material problems on all sides of the rotor probably. Running correct fuel/air mixture for correct catalytic converter function gives high exhaust temperatures.
i keep looking at this motor and i love it! i hope they do a small capacity like a 125cc version that can kick out 30+ horses in a motorcycle. like a yz on road tyres with one of those motors .
I have thousands of hours running single piston, 2 stroke chainsaws. My favorite saw and daily work horse is over 20 years old. I have resisted computer controlled carbs in favor of mechanical simplicity. I even pass up the more powerful fuel injected saw that is available. But if this type of engine can compete with my beloved 440 in power to weight? This engine looks like it wants to deliver torque. In my applications, that could be huge. While also not needing 2 stroke oil. Another huge plus in my own opinion. I will miss the backfires that my aftermarket exhaust creates. But lower vibration is super attractive.
Did he actually mention that it doesn't require 2 stroke oil? I must have missed that part? 2 stroke actually smells nice though? In Australia we have a cliche movie called 'The Castle' which makes good reference to the point I'm trying to make lol
@@Jarmezrocks I'm asthmatic, some chemical fumes trigger inflammation bad in me. Cheap two stroke oil can choke me out. But running straight fuel means no worries, just get some proper octane fuel and go.
@@komrade223 I have asthma too and yes I too agree less fumes the better. 2 stroke only smells nice when it's wofting in the breeze diluted from afar 😁 On a side note if you are "suffering" from your asthma conditions (in general) you should ask your doctor for a prescription for Breo Ellipta (fluticasone furoate)25mg inhaler👍 Since using this I have not suffered from any asthma symptoms in many years!
This engine would use 2 stroke oil and there is nothing wrong with that. I f i ever get the XTS 210 im using nothing but synthetic 2 stroke oil and i got plenty of it.
This seems like the best choice for a Paraglider engine or a similar ultralight ... but I'd say it probably should be 3D printed. Forget about developing manufacturing methods for the engine, just 3D print it.
@@richr161 Those 2stroke paramotor engines are bulky and heavy. and 90% of the reason why is because of the exhaust. This type of engine shouldn't need any exhaust pipe at all. It's not simpler, that's true and it's likely not going to be as powerful but it's most likely going to be smaller and lighter.
I think that the seals being fixed to the engine case instead of the piston will make a ton of difference as they don’t move and can be fitted with oiling nozzles of needed
Yes i agree with the sentiments, bring it on so there will be some alternative to EVs, i love the living breathing combustion engines so anything to keep them available is very very good news
5 HP Constantly is enough for a small electric m'otorcycle. The engine is so small you'd have enough battery space for 20-50 miles without having to burn any gas if it was a plug in.
Most folks just aren't worried about fentanyl. The problems are concentrated among folks we don't usually encounter and that we just don't care about. Programs like ensuring the EMTs carry the drug that can rescue folks that OD don't really get a lot of traction.
Going back in your list I found this. But you have covered it a few times since this one. I do hope it works out, it does sound great. The apex seals and the seals towards the housing are the close tolerances to meet I guess.
I think they will have issues with wear and rebuilding the Rotor housings they are very complicated..if worn they would most likely be tossed out,and replaced with new as well, if any carbon is collected inside the engine it will most likely damage the rotor itself as the apex seals are now in the Housing..
The engine is used as the generator for the Anglo-American M777 howitzer gun. Small, light and portable. It is past the concept stage into production. However, I fear it has missed the boat as EVs will dominate. I can only see small niche applications like small portable generators. I fear Mazda have also missed the boat with the Wankel wanting to introduce it as a generator in a hybrid this year - delayed. EVs are made them think about going into full production. The Wankel is good at constant speed & load applications, like electricity generation. The engine is like a Wankel inside out. Much better design. Thirty years ago it may have been taken up for mass application. EV technology will steamroll the small vehicle market. It is here, works, emissions free, with chargers being installed en-mass. Also solid state batteries are a game changer, which are imminent to be introduced. And R&D on batteries is still ongoing. Great design, but too late.
Yes To Late So Fluoride in the Water By LAW = Neg. -20 IQ Points = It's Corp. Gov. Fake Money & Depopultion & Nuclear END One Way Or The Other Any Time Now ....Take Care....@ 26 CPM
@@clutchboi4038 One refinery in the UK uses the equivalent electricity as the cities of Leicester and Coventry _combined._ That is a lot! When petro production declines this electricity is then used to charge cars. One of the heads on the British National Grid said that there is no future problem in supplying electricity for EVs. Also, the UK is busy installing large wind farms around the coast and large grid battery storage banks. The last of the coal burning power stations will be decommissioned in the next year or so. Should have already been decommissioned but Covid and the world-wide energy crisis got in the way.
@John Burns, the majority of applications are currently for ultralight vehicles or generators. Upscaling for these guys is primarily via multiple engines, and they are completing a fairly huge contract right now. Check their website.
Every so many years the revolutionary rotary engine appears and then disappears.. Two reasons. It can't be sealed and high emissions. Years ago G.M. took on the Wankel engine and came out backwards. Had they phoned an engine designer friend of mine they could have saved themselves $300Ml.. Some just have to learn the hard way. Best of luck.
I disagree, you could redesign the side plates with integrated intake porting on one side, and exhaust porting on the other. Add rotors like making a big mac.
And it still has three apex seals, which still sucks. (but at least they're not on the rotor anymore) And I suspect it still has issues with getting rid of exhaust and such...
It’s great as a 4 stroke version of a wankel but still we have the seals issue. I really want these guys to succeed but I have not seen any innovation in the apex seal. I know there is a company in Portsmouth that rebuilds Mazda rotaries and has increased the life in those engines but I think there is still a way to go. It’s the one overriding advantage with cylinders, the seals don’t have to conform to a moving face. They can be oiled from one side and there can be many of them per chamber. Has anyone thought of using a needle bearing as the primary seal? Then a sliding seal behind the needle roller bearing? This way the sliding seal doesn’t have to move. The needle roller can turn at the appropriate speed to match the rotor passing over it so there would be no sliding force on the rotor.
Liquid piston struggles with the rotor overheating. They don’t have a reliable cooling system for it. Maybe make it from alumina (ceramic). Position a port and cover over seal ends and they’ll be replaceable with minimal work.
