After about 2 years it's time to see if this machine has an after life... IF the motors are shot it may be time to have a funeral :( Oh, Here is a safety tip I left out... • touch test
Will say, that No. 1 looks far much better than the one I passed on over in Shiner 10 years ago. It was much older and too far gone to salvage, too. There was no way to get it out of the building without tearing down the lean to it was in. Found out later, that's how they got it out,, tore down the building.
Yeah old equipment. You never know what’s buried in the electrickery. I bought a Cincinnati mill recently that I didn’t know if it worked - wasn’t long before it let the magic smoke out of the control panel. Must be why they call them “smoking deals”. 😊
After the last experience with the old camel back drill letting out the magic smoke I had little hopes for this one... That's why I decided to fire it up instead of waiting and letting it sit where the Axelson 16 could go back in.... Sucks having a small shop :(
Indeed! At least you know it fundamentally turns. It just needs electrickery, and you’ve pretty much got it diagnosed already. It’s almost in service already. Damn I’m feeling positive today.
The label on the electric box clearly states, CAUTION Steve, so be sure to use some . Looks like it could be a pretty cool setup if it don’t bite😊. Be safe and have fun.
I really like your videos. Liked you joining in on the tally ho casting. You doing right stuff. Wish i was near to you and could see closer and get some of your rehabbed old machines. Keep up the work.
Those heaters (overload breakers) weaken every time they are activated. We always replaced them after a few "trips". Replace with the same rating, number is printed or embossed into the top. don't replace the heating element by itself, the base with the knurled knob is what really needs to be changed. "These NEMA thermal overload relays prompt contactors to break electrical connections with downstream equipment once a set temperature is reached to protect connected loads from overheating and causing damage. Thermal units, also known as heaters, contain either bimetallic strips or melting alloy solder materials. When the current exceeds a predetermined threshold and temperatures rise, the material bends or liquefies, causing the thermal unit to break the circuit and cause the contactor to break its power contacts. As the materials cool down, they will return to their normally closed position and the circuit can be reset automatically or manually."
These are ones I have not seen before... They have a spring that has two positions, one for normal and one for testing..... I'll have more on them next week, Don is coming over on Saturday and looking at it...
I always Megger the motors and check all electrics before energising. Older machines had rubber insulation on the wiring which perishes over the years.
Well I don't have a megger, yet :) Someday I'll run across one......... I figure that over the years I have had one motor that let the smoke out and what exactly did that mean... It meant the motor had to be rewound anyway... Its about 1100.00 to rework a motor these days so I'm damned if I do, damned if I don't....
Learned something, "heaters", never heard of it referring to fuses, I was off wondering what needed warming up... I'd be checking all the wiring and especially the stuck in button, something is tripping the fuses, just seeing the fuses laying on the bottom of the box was a heads up for me. Long ago I turned aircraft cranks and then later large diesels and hot rods, they had two grinders and the largest had about a 5-6 foot stone, everyone in the shop would stand back at least 15' when I'd start it up. Slow fuses are not my thing, but I would be looking for a laser temp. to see which one is the hottest. Electromechanical troubleshooter by trade, brings back memories of working on hot high voltage, at the Ben Franklin package place they had posters about "The breaker just blew up on me!", yeah, from ignorant co-workers back-feeding into the line voltage, had to resign as I did not trust the others. The lead senior person asked me once why birds don't get fried sitting on power lines! That is another, check to see if the machine is leaking, might not show with so much machine on the concrete, but I would check, many times I can feel it like from reaching across and feeling a tingle on the underside of the fore-arm. Back to lexicon, I worked for stone masons on the East coast and the boss asked me to find "spikes", two attempts with nothing, he takes me out and within 12' he picks up a 16 penny nail.
Looks like we better call Don... let it cool off and set up your amp meter and check for current draw on each leg to each motor you may be correct on the heaters.. Also they may be missed matched since its so old....
There are at least 10 contactors in the cabinet.... Going to set up the camera and take pictures to see If I can easily figure out what contactor is controlling each motor before I start taking them off line one by one .... Wish I had the drawing...
@@10swatkins Steve, that old Varitrol SCR drive probably got fried. It has set so long that the gremlins set up house and took over. Just saying. Is that a old SCR drive? or is that older with the old style rectrafier in that box?
It's acting like some thermal protection for the whole machine is kicking in. Grinding wheel is spinning free and the headstock seems ok too. Could it be a hydraulic or coolant pump gummed up from sitting that is tripping it out? You should be able to isolate them and see if it works. Schematic would be a lifesaver right about now.
I wish I had the drawings :( I have drawings for all the old machines I have kept over the years.... I'll put a camera on the works and see what is happening.... there is no way to isolate the other pumps with switches , I'll have to disable the contactors when I figure out what is what... I Did figure out what the box on top is for, an oiling system and monitor.... Maybe that is is blocking things also.... I found a working on on Ebay for a 150.00 and it should be where when I return from the Z bash...
@@10swatkins Talk to that Vintage Machinery guy Keith, I hear he's at at the Z. He has drawings for the hydraulics on his web site but I didn't see any for the wiring. I would first try to find those pumps and verify if they turn. Then you can disable all the motor starters by disconnecting one wire from each of their coils. There may be a main contactor (that the push button operates) that needs to get energized first to allow the others to operate, then just connect each in turn and see what they do and which one trips the heaters out. Label each starter as you learn what it operates. It may seem like a daunting task, but I've seen guys make their own (simplified) drawings by tracing out the wires and seeing where they go and writing it all down. Start at the top and work down. Hope you have spare fuses. I much prefer heaters that need a manual reset because then you know what tripped.
The stuff on the back is the problem we think... It's a oil monitoring system that has the wiring all screwed up.... I was mainly interested if it would run at all... Been several years since I brought it in the shop and I had not had an easy way to power it up with 440 until I decided to switch the 10EE over to 220 and moved the 440 converter over to that room....
Sometimes it works out.... Most of these machines are so far gone it take a lot of time and I have to skip around waiting on funds, time, paint drying , parts........ so on and so on.... I always will have 5 or 6 things going on, things do get finished :) The reason for starting this one up is making sure it will stay here. If it was bad problems it was taking up the space an Axelson 16 fits right into... Think of this channel as more of a continuing source of frustration :)
It appears to be a cylindrical grinder used to grind hardened steel shafts to close tolerances. There’s a large vertical grinding wheel back there in the dark. Can’t tell much yet until Steve gets it going.
Nothing to forgive! ellieprice363 got it right.... It is a ID and OD Cylindrical grinder... It is used in the finishing of precession metal parts that are round. Shafts are the usually purpose but many parts that are precession are usually turned to about .003 to .005 larger than finish size, heat treated then ground to final size... This one can do the outside then inside of metal parts , say a pipe, and take it to tolerances of .0002 If I have to weld up a broken or worn part of a round object this will be the machine to refinish it back to the original size...
Probably not in this case... It's setup for 440 and that's what I'm feeding it... Usually that happens when someone tries to move it to 220 and does not have the bigger amp heaters installed... We will see... Thanks for watching...
Going to be easier to set up a camera to watch the contactors in the cabinet and see if I can see one kick in and then drop out.... I suspect it is either the hydraulic or coolant pump having problems... There are no switches to turn them off and everything starts up in the machine when you hit the one start button!
Well, we know it didn't kill you. If it did, your ghost posted the video. First mistake when you power up. Take the back side of your hand and brush it against the metal on the grinder. You should know that from all the years you worked in the HFD.
OH I did... I even have video proof sitting on the cutting room floor :) Just forgot and left out that part... ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-8t09i0cbTqg.html There see :)
Not that I am any kind of expert, or even anything that could be confused with one in the remotest, but it seems like you have a bad motor heater. Why is it the heaters always go bad before the motor they are intended to protect? LOL!
IN all the machines I've ever worked on I have only had one bad heater.... I have a pile of heaters that are changes outs though... Most of the times I have to change out heaters designed for 440 instead of 220. 220 requires heaters almost twice the ratings of 440. But I do agree it seems like a heater problem... These heaters are different than most... They have a spring that lets you change to a manual position for testing... When I get back from the Z Bar Bash I will dive into it more.... I mainly wanted to see if there was any hope for the machine before I gave it any more time taking up limited space...
Old Cylindrical Grinders ??? Unless you know the person who ran this machine last. Best to stay right away from getting involved in any way possible. They can be a gold mine IF you know the History. IF you have NO idea about the History, they can finish up being a huge money pit ??? Neverending fixing and replacing almost anything possible.
