Well stated. As a freshman in college, I asked my father to send me his old, well worn rain coat when he finally purchased a new one. A dorm-mate of mine was with me when I opened it and remarked, "Nice, a Burberry trench with a zip in liner. You'er ready for anything." I told him it was my dad's hand-me-down, and he said , "Even better." We were fast friends.
I have so enjoyed this and many of your other ytube videos. I was taught the top class way of looking at life but never had a name for it. I was always a little different than my friend now I know why. Thank you for sharing your wisdom.
merci ! thankyou ! Sonya,,when i ,lived in an ashram in India , there was a sign above the shoes racks ,, (no shoes inside of temples or any indoor buildings) "LEAVE YOUR EGO WITH YOUR SHOES" a feeling of modest equality was part of becoming a stronger less clunky human. Having met several top class wonderful people , they seem to glow with "less is more" discreet , gentle, ease its a significant pleasure to be around such people , makes the world more beautiful .
This just got deep and philosophical. You speak of the modest rich being genuine in character. I've met a few but more experience with the opposite I have: An admittedly penniless snake bragging about their designer items, bragging about their hair and makeup and clothes acting like an entitled princess when in fact they are the poorest 1 in the room.
These are the stories I appreciate knowing. I can visualize the scenario of "the top class gone bad". I'm glad you took the time to write, thanks! ~Sonya
Discretion, good manners, a slightly self-deprecating sense of humour and an understated but pleasing personal style all help to build self-confidence and put others at their ease. Thank you for making this video.
A friend of mine who flew for various saudi royal families told me exactly the same . The "less important "families would wear all the labels and flashy things on display etc , whereas the "highest up" would dress so casual you would never think they were extremely wealthy or important.
I was a private banker many years ago and my clients came from new money (upper class) and old money (top class) and your description of their respective style is pretty spot on. I remember the first time I met an elderly client (old money) for lunch...he bicycled from his West Village condo to Gotham Bar and Grill dressed in ratty clothing. There was nothing in his appearance that would've indicated that he was a member of the 'ultra high net worth' clique. However, that wasn't true for British old money...they flew in from UK and the gents and ladies always dressed impeccably, but it wasn't affectation it was their day to day style.
Thank you for your speech, it was very interesting. It reminded me of what a professe of mine once said: Ethics show we respect ourselves, and manners show we respect others.
Absolutely brilliant!!! All of the money and pedigree in the world can’t buy “true” class and elegance! I adore and appreciate you and Hugo so very much! Thank you!!!!
Many thanks Sonya for touching upon this fondly appreciated and very important aspect of the sartorial talks. Rules, codes, traditions, philosophy and even ethics as well as the contrary of all these topics are of upmost importance to not only comprehending but also fully embrace the required sartorial behaviour. We need more of this type of content. Kudos.
My mother grew up in an old money family based between New Jersey and Maryland, though she did not carry that wealth on herself. When I was growing up she spoke often about the differences between old money people and those of new money, whom she said were called "codfish." Where this relates to your video is that she mentioned some of her more admired aunts who behaved precisely as you describe. Their cars were nondescript, their clothes were excellent quality, but subdued on appearance, they treated everyone with equal courtesy and consideration, and they never presented or displayed their wealth. Of course I have no money to speak of, and without a high perch I couldn't look down on many if I wanted to; but I do reflect on the lessons that my mother passed to me from her, as you say, discreet, family.
As sales assistant I confirm what she said, I worked for British ladies wear, old money always buy quality well made and tailored cloth,,, new money would skip our shop to designer more exciting bright stuff,,, manners also we're different.
It is the unfortunate greenery of new money that we have such misconceptions about the rich. The poor are to be uplifted and the rich are never to be envied. Old money, aristocrats who gained their riches through meaningful acts, virtue and chivalry wanted not for it. Ofcourse one can find examples of greed in any strata of society or stage of life. But people who surrounded noble circles drawing their traditions from ancient nobles like King Arthur, were men of virtue. The women in their company were supposed to be some of the best of women. It is confidence and respect with good manners and good company of people we should all seek. Great vid Sonya! Thank you Sartorial Talks!
When hearing what you said, I'm reminded of the classic idea of the gentleman in a Jane Austen novel. I'm also reminded of several things that have nothing to do with money. In the US, we tend to associate class with economic statue, and I think that's most unfortunate. I think true class and elegance rise above money. I like to think that elegance is a kind of maturity that expresses who our best self is. That should vary from individual to individual. I can so relate to your Timex story. I always fly with a cheap but functional Timex precisely because it can light up to show me what time it is when i sleep. In so doing, I wouldn't have to turn the light on to disturb any of my neighbors in the same cabin. I personally think that we can all be classy, rich, poor or middle class.
I could not have summarized your point any better in regard to how elegance relates to maturity, and how money, to some degree, is not always relevant. Thanks for your comment, ~Sonya
I completely agree. Of course financial means allow access to education (please don t confuse this with higher level instruction), books, travel, experiences. But only class makes the intangible valuable in my opinion: the company, the harmony and completeness of the moment, sensibility. Now more than ever there is no excuse to try and better yourself. I ve been following the channel for a while now and really enjoy the content. Take care, Dieter.
When I think of elegance and grace, I think of my Great Uncle. He carried himself with such dignity. He was courteous and kind. Always wore a suit to church, and a hat when he was out on the street, which he removed immediately upon entering a building. He was a man of humble means, but his presence was unmistakable. He was well respected in his community, because he was unmistakably a man of character. His wardrobe was small, but what he had was well maintained, of good quality and fit perfectly. Always appropriately dressed for every occasion, understated elegance. Class has nothing to do with money, and everything to do with character, manner and wisdom. There are rich people with little class, and poor people with plenty of class.
“You don’t have to be a natural born beauty to have a sense of style.” Spoken by an attractive lady. No I’m not flirting, just speaking the truth. 😎 Hope that makes your day! 🙂
Sonya, this was so informative and agreed. In my profession I've noticed this. There is a distinction between rich and wealthy; the "wealthy" would generally be considered "top class". Thank you for these videos, a wealth of information - pun intended. :)
It seems as if she is talking about the difference between old money and new money. I was once a member of the Kansas City Club the oldest Gentlemans Club in Missouri. This was before women were allowed. I solved a problem for the Club and I got in on an Mgrs. invitation. The difference between old and new money is very striking and on two completely different social levels. Old money would drive something like a 4 yr old Buick, usually something big and dark. The new money had the latest model Cadillac. I learned that quality is much preferred over quantity. Most of my clothing is bespoke, some of it I have had for years. My watches tend tobe 50s tank watches. I still wear a fedora. Straw for summer, fur felt for winter. Old money tends to be very reserved and anonymous. The lessons I learned there, by being quiet and listening (Being on an mgr invitation, I knew my place) on style, etiquette, and the mannerisms were worth as much as my education. The contacts are still friends nearly 60 years later. I learned how the world actually worked watching the very wealthy interact. It's a shame more people cannot have that experience.
Excellent topic and discussion! I think the main takeaway from the talk is that class transcends money. We should be kind and respectful to everyone regardless of their race, gender, "social status", job, etc. Money doesn't make the person, their mannerism does. And I think style is a good way to tell others of what kind of person you are, though of course looks can always be deceiving. - Han
@@SARTORIALTALKS For perspective, among the possible sections or chapters for your book. I urge you to look at the success that Robert Greene's 48 laws book had. It seems like an associated topic to style and how to behave.
Love the information. Good things to know. Especially in my position as a Bartender, where the practice of discretion and observation is of utmost importance. Thank you, Sonya ! (-:
Thank you for this Sonya! Could I make a request of you and/or Hugo? Could you explain clothing care, particularly with dress shirts and suits (esp. if they are staying hung up while working at home)? I learned a disappointing lesson leaving my collar stays in my shirts when dropping them off at the dry cleaners. However, also reading advice to not use dry cleaners so often in general. I know shoe care pretty well and have the brushes, polishes, and renovators that I need which has exposed how little I know how to care for the rest of my wardrobe. For reference, I just graduated college and starting a job in a law firm (well at home for the time being). Always deeply appreciate your content; thank you!
I wholeheartedly agree with what you've said Sonya. There are a lot of nouveau riche in my country, India, and it's easy to see the difference in their behaviour as against someone who has had money in the family for generations.
Sonya I know this is a men's/gentlemen's channel but please, please can you show us something about your wardrobe, your style etc.? I am a woman who is quite inspired by menswear and sartorial pieces and seeing you and your husband and friends talking about these things is amazing to me. It's so precious because channels like this are soo rare on YT. Thank you for all your work!
Apropos of nothing in particular, having been an article contributor to one of the best known James Bond lifestyle sites for ten years, I offer the following: Hugo would be an excellent Bond Villain, with his class, charisma and touch of mystery; Casino Royale would have been all the better had Monsieur Jacomet been cast in the role of Le Chiffre. On another note, Madame Jacomet is the type of woman I am happy to say is a very rare jewel; had every man had such a wife, I would have starved to death as a Divorce Attorney for all the years I practiced that particular dark art. Now, after offering the above amuse bouche, as an entreé the only other dish to serve, is a full plate of BRAVISSIMO! If your channel was an American shoe, it would have a width of Triple E.--Elegant, Exquisite, and Edifying with respect to the heights of men’s style.
Regarding the interests of the top-class in their surroundings: I believe it is not as a sign of disgust to the high-class/nouveaux-riches, but rather a sign of how well-educated they are. To seek knowledge/learnings from others is one of life's 101. Never be contemptuous onto others, you can always gain something from a conversation -with enough introspection and reflecting at hand. Everyone can teach you something. As the adage goes: "Sharing is caring". Share your knowledge and bliss.
Sonja, it sounds like Zurich! Except for the young with supercars, the top is very discreet here. They are not flashy, but what they do have is of high quality. For example, they are less likely to have a gold Rolex with diamonds than a slim simple Patek Philippe, even though the Patek costs more. Also, spot on with toasting. If one doesn't look the other in the eye when toasting, it is basically being rude.
Thoroughly enjoyed your insight, I work within the luxury jewellery industry where our discretion is key not only for decorum but for security of these exquisite pieces we sell to our clients.
Good one, such an excellent talk. Style, design, the power of observation. All these factors can kick anyone's act upstairs. Thinking of people's paths about which I've read, they all have one thing in common: style. They were either born with it or learned by watching others. Very carefully. A Charvet cuff, a note writtten with a sterling silver Cross Townsend pen, a kind word. One does not learn these things in the classroom. The lessons are everywhere for the taking (as you just demonstrated). These philosophical themes are so terrific on your channel. Along with the clothing talks, of course. Wonderful!
I enjoyed your response and am inspired to push further on the topic of style and other musings, thanks to comments such as yours. Much appreciation ! ~Sonya
Man, this is a vivid video, and really goes with my understanding of style (the reasons why, etc.) . Great video front to back; I will watch it again. I was reminded of some early Medici**, the one who made them big-time, something about how even after becoming rich he still wore his hunting jacket and cap every day and would personally ride out to check on his fields and personally speak to the workers on his estates, instead of hiring managers and go-betweens so he could live a life of leisure. Seems he was equivalent of the Top Class but in his day. Anyone remember his name? I want to say Giacopo..but I don't know.
As someone who enjoys works of Fantasy and how it works believably, I have also noticed that one things writers often keep in mind is how power struggles often shape how people conduct themselves. So for example, a royal who's family has been in power for generation, but could easily be deposed, makes a point to treat their subjects better than one who is not accustomed to the responsibility. I have also read similar things within the works of Machiavelli. So it's very interesting to hear you comment on how people of old money and new money sort of mirrors this.
This topic is so misunderstood by the majority of people. For example, most people think elegance is a solid gold watch, that looks expensive. Instead of making people feel at ease in your presence.
Most of the modern rules of social etiquette and discretion of the social elites and the Nobility, in Europe and America, comes from Florence, during the height of the Italian Renaissance. There are actual Tomes written about the subject, such as eating from your own plate and sitting on chairs and not stools which was a sign of a lower class station. Just some food🍲 for thought💡. I enjoyed the vid. My compliments to you and your husband. I enjoy watching your vids. Thanks for sharing.
Actually this video is great for those who are embarking on their sartorial journey. Helps people to understand, the things they should consider before picking their style. The joy is truly in the codes.
How interesting, whilst discretion is everything, if you look at the sartorial tastes of the male British Royals, they are often seen sporting lapel badges & boutonnieres & pocket squares (often altogether). Prince Charles in particular, so I was a little surprised to hear that they shun accessories but the Sonya's observations seem pretty spot-on.
I hope I can explain this good. When it comes to wearing suits, nice shoes, and watches, my dad would tell me how to wear these things correctly but not in a direct verbal manner. He would give me these strange discreet indicators and would expect me to figure it out myself. Sometimes it would take me like 5 years to figure out what his secret codes meant and I never realized at first that they were actually secret codes in the first place.
As the population of the world explodes, it seems these lessons and knowledge are slowly being diluted from our now, less polite societies. I do hope your 93,000 odd subscribers take these observations and so subtlely spread the word. Well done.
As someone who is in the UHNW bracket I value freedom more than anything else. Freedom to say and do whatever you want is the true luxury. Period. You can be a president of a country but if you're tied to rules and having to say the right things all the time and not the truth then you're not living a luxurious life. The true wealthy and I mean the top 100 in the country are very unassuming.
Good evening sir, and thank you for sharing your thoughts. We agree with you about the fact that freedom is the true luxury in life (together with time). As for the "rules" I believe Sonya was speaking about what we can call "rules of civility". It means, putting others at ease in your company and not looking down on anyone no matter their social class. Warm regards, Hugo
We go with us wherever we go...best bring the best form of us with us and focus on our outlook. Not just in the "material" (suits, shoes, accessories) but grace, compassion, kindness and a smile.
Excellent content Sonya. On rare occasions when someone stubborn is arguing based on ego rather than actual facts, I will just let them win in order to quickly end the pointless, waste of time session.
A great point regarding discretion would be related to how it is more important that the person is noticed first and not the clothes. The clothes are meant to channel the attention to the person and they should be a material extension of the personality and not the material extension of the material. It's a great way to know whether we're doing it right with our clothes. Are people noticing us first or the clothes first? The clothes should quietly sit in the background, sending off subconscious signals of refinement and taste. It is the smile, speech and mannerism that makes the ultimate difference. The clothes and the material style should only discreetely narrate the story and adventures experienced by the person. An example would be the Boutonniere mentioned by Mrs. Jacomet here. I firmly believe that any form of effort is always rewarded in one manner or the other. So that's why putting efforts into one's appearance in a humble, discreet, yet truthful manner is what I believe, sets some apart from the rest. A.A
Class has nothing to do with wealth, either new or old. In fact, for a truly classy person, things like wealth, clothing and other possessions don't even register on their consciousness. It's more to do with a well-rounded education, solid core values, simplicity and directness of expression and when communicating with others, personal integrity and above all kindness to all, friends and strangers alike. Style is primarily an external display which may or may not correspond to someone's true class, and so can be a misleading indicator. Just my two cents worth, others I'm sure will have equally strongly held opinions.
VERY interesting my dear Sonya, its always a joy to see your videos))))) as i enjoy your knowledge, voice with body language, and the touch of elegance with your scarfs ))), stay save, love to you and Hugo from Cairo.
Very good episode. As an interesting sidenote from a German: In Germany there is the proverbial expression of „Knigge“ when it come to questions like how to handle your cutlery or which buttons to close etc. However most have forgotten that Adolph von Knigge‘s 1788 original book „Über den Umgang mit Menschen“ (On Human Relations) was mostly focussed on respectfully treating one‘s fellow human beings, regardless of class. It sadly morphed to some mere etiquette guide over dozens of re-edited versions, hollowing out Knigge‘s original intention. You might want to have a look if you plan to dive deeper into the subject or do another episode on it.
Great discussion. People judge a book by it’s cover, you should always look and act your best. People will treat you better and you will feel better about yourself. Have respect for your self.
Perhaps in the old days, the householder knew the names and health of their workers and their families, to help prevent disease from coming into the householder’s home. Not that they would fire someone who had a wife or child with a contagious condition, but one has to be careful.
I inherited a beautiful black leather greatcoat ,double breasted with silver pebble grain buttons.It fits perfectly over a suit in cold weather,and with a nice fedora and gloves,I get compliments,(and good service at the local bistro)
I like to look to this movies a lot! Besides that I just found out your podcasts on Spotify but there are only 2 of them. Can you please upload a bit more podcasts? This is ideal when you have to travel or something like that (when you aren't able to look to a video). Thanks!
I'm struggling with the upper and top class distinction, as it seems to me there is an other distinction that is easier to make i.e the one between new wealth, which is predominantly heard, and matured (or old) wealth, which is felt. It needs to be stressed that wealth does not equal riches. That distinction seems to tie in better with the arguments Sonya made just before mentioning the book about how to behave and the need to hone style. New wealth is just the means without the style: only loud at best and downright obnoxious at worst.
Wealth does not equal riches---I suppose money cannot buy things like knowing how to behave, and knowing where the line that separates elegance from vulgarity exists. Yes you're right, Top Class is the equivalent of old wealth in this literary reference. Thank you for clarifying/commenting. ~Sonya
It's a great take on how the "top class" behave but it kind of implies that being "upper class" is vulgar because it is so obviously materialistic and yet the "top class" is putting a lot of effort to disguise their own inclinations to possess material things and that is somehow better. I think it is important to point out that the choice of material possessions of the "top class" is not necessarily due to a better understanding of the qualitative value of these things (they can collect rare objects simply because it is the final frontier of what the money can buy - mass produced luxury is no longer exciting, logos only make you look like you are "new money" etc.; or pieces of art can be bought as an investment without any thought or true appreciation of the art itself). I think it is important to recognise that it is not about the money - be it discrete or screaming, old or new - it is about the understanding of what you are paying for/acquiring and it is not about looking "top class" so that it looks like you're better off than the "upper class". It would be much more interesting to hear what the so called "intelligentsia" considers worthy and why because it does't have a direct correlation with income. My comment is by no means intended to be critical, simply I believe that we do need to strive for the right ideals and one's motivation for developing their own sense of style is fairy important, perhaps more than ever before in today's world. Many thanks to you dear Sonya and Hugo for the quality content and sharing your passion.
In terms of behaviour and style choices, I agree with you that intention and motivation are somehow important in society. I remember a scientific qualitative study that measured annoyance and anger levels of people who experienced induced-pain. If subjects thought the pain was intentionally inflicted, annoyance and anger levels spiked. So for a Top Class member to intentionally try to behave or appear superior would likely create perturbation on the part of others. As you say, I doubt there is much of any intention behind a generational behaviour but there may or may not be thoughts of superiority (which is likely individually based and individual personality characteristics and may not be generalised). I appreciate the pertinent point about income being a variable---although there is a subset of old money whose inheritance has been depleted, of course. In this study, Iearned mostly about losing our egos and the pursuit of being decent humans because when one has everything he or she could possibly need, I suppose the more important things become apparent (e.g., Solomon in Ecclesiastes). Nice point to about the motivation to own rare items and lack of interest in things that are readily available. Most of all, thank you for a thought provoking comment, and cheers! Sonya
I notice the cars of the old money? (Top class) are typically conservative colors. And not necessarily bought new. Bought new or used. Depending on the situation.
Hi Kosmas, Your talent in this production makes the difference. Thanks for the care and meticulous attention you put into your work ! Cheers (it elevates the spirit, as you say), ~Sonya
im an intendant for a very important bleu blood family in Indonesia and everything you said is totally right ( only for the gossip part, they just love it during their tea time ) great video . Le luxe est une affaire d'argent. L'élégance est une question d'éducation.
I am happy to receive your confirmation in regard to the contents of the video, as well as for the clarification on the topic of gossiping, ha. Thank you for taking the time to write a useful response. À votre santé! Sonya
Oh, I guess Melania was carrying a brown paper lunch bag not a $25,000 Birkin bag when i saw her on TV last month. My mistake. Quant little video but when push comes to shove the peacocks show their feathers. I see it on Madison in New York City every day. The threadbare is just a way to broadcast exclusivity and cast system. Fun to have a worn out shirt in the Hamptons, less so in Compton. Spare me.
The rich like to be inclusive because it's lonely being rich also .... honestly the reason they like to live modest is because they are scared... they are scared of the poor because the poor look at them as a meal because they are rich and they are scared of their warfare .. basically it's "heavy the head that wears the crown" KING HENRY IV
Another reason some people don't like compliments, is that these attach a small amount of obligation to the receiver of the compliment. Power people are very careful with obligations. On the subject of discretion: I'm slowly learning that You Tube is not my own, personal mystery science theater 3000. For me to make comments on.
Completely agree. However, I feel sometimes like a fraud by dressing nicely. Some of my shoes are nicer by what most people wear. Otherwise there is nothing special. GAP and Brooks Brothers on sale mostly. I regularly wear $25 (on sale) khakis. I know there are people (especially women) who look at me and think "He's doing well....". Well, I'm doing okay (and working on MUCH BETTER 'okay'. 🙂), but sometimes it just feels fraudulent. I like to dress nice. Been doing so since about 12 years old. I like looking 'put together' with that classical sensibility. Like how many people equate to how wealthy people dress. I like presenting myself as best as possible like being hard-working, kind to all types in addition to dressing nicely. I've known some very wealthy people and completely agree with how you portray them. They might have a big house. But they don't flaunt their wealth in any other way. They dress quite commonly. They may have a fancy car but it's only driven on special occasions. Incredibly generous with their time, money and knowledge/experience. Very kind. It still sometimes surprises me when I encounter their generosity.
I appreciate your reply and the confirmation you give to the episode. In regard to feeling fraudulent, perhaps you just really care about putting others at ease --- you're just a compassionate person. Still, in my opinion, you may not realize that you are inspiring many more people than the few you may make feel uncomfortable because they are comparing themselves with you. ~Sonya
@@SARTORIALTALKS Thank you. I've put a lot of thought into this and comes to this: I dress for how it makes me feel and how I feel about myself. I can't control what people think. But like in your video: discretion. And I think I'm pretty good at that. Thank you again. 🙏
Since we are speaking of the behaviours of generational wealth, it was my hope that this could have been written centuries ago and the text would still be relevant today, but maybe that was only a dream :) Sonya
