The fact Renault did exactly the same thing and got away with it only goes to show how this wasn't about what Coughlan and Stepney did, but rather how much Moseley and Alonso hated Ron Dennis and did what they could to destroy his team.
Marc out of all your episodes like your tree house tales the best. Besides reading from your book you expand on things that happened which makes it more real
The whole Spygate saga had me gripped, the scandal was unprecedented and left many wondering what'd _really_ happened. Only Mike Coughlan and the late Nigel Stepney had a clue what'd gone on but ultimately it cost McLaren dearly. Next story perhaps,.. Australia, 2009 when Dave Ryan and Lewis Hamilton were caught lying to the FIA about the incident with Jarno Trulli (who finished 3rd in the race for Toyota) which culminated in the unfortunate sacking of Dave Ryan.
..and all because Mike Couglan’s wife needed assistance with a photocopier. Was it ever discovered what the powder found in/around kimi’s fuel tank was in Monaco? Would like to hear more about Australian 2009 and Dave Ryan’s unfortunate ‘trip’ under a bus.
On audiobook you really built up the tension and portray the anxiety. You also go into the unseen effects with people potentially losing jobs, houses etc which being outside the bubble you don’t really see.
Tales from the Treehouse has quickly become my favourite series on this channel. Hearing the inside story of working for McLaren, my favourite F1 team, is fascinating. Keep up the great videos Marc!
I remember being just as gutted as a McLaren fan by the whole thing as it among us fans also truly felt like that was the year the team would finally get a shot at winning a WCC again. (By the way Marc, I just want to add that your YT channel is one of the reasons I started watching F1 again back in 2018 after an eight year long hiatus.)
Great recap. Must have been a horrible experience, massive blow which would have affected the teams trust in their leadership. While still difficult for you, just keep forgiving them because forgiveness triumphs winning.
Great reading of that part of your book. It creates a much more realistic feeling and effect to the potential consequences. Clear to see that this is always going to be a sore point with you and rightly so! That feeling of betrayal is hard to forgive. Whatever else it was, the lessons you learned from it have served to make you who you are today, and we are grateful it led to this channel. Great video as always Marc!!
Marc, that took a lot of courage to write about, and even more to speak about. From one of my favorite hobbies is a saying. "Speak the truth, even if your voice shakes."
As a fan you more often than not focus on the drivers and forget that this was yet another incredible story from that season, its a shame it turned out like that and the frustration you all must have felt was understandable
Thanks for your honest and emotional account of your life. I too have experienced a similar situation and still suffer from it till this day but l try and take as many positives from it so as to counter attack those negative effects. Anyways, love your videos. Chin up and keep up the excellent work.
Tales from the treehouse was no Jackanoree this week! IT WAS WAY MORE "Powerful" , on the edge of my seat, never understood how deeply that whole saga effected everyone!! WOW...
I’ve read into this some what over the years. And from what I’ve read. The team was so close to being booted for life. Only for a last minute plea the team was able to stay.
With the greatest respect to you and what was taken away from you and your teammates, after having watched various iterations of this story, it seems that it all hinged on the guy in the print-copy shop being a Ferrari fan. I mean what were the chances? If it had been any other average punter they probably wouldn't have blinked an eye.
It never sat right with me that McLaren got such a huge public kicking over this whereas the Toyota issue got swept under the carpet. Same with Renault. I guess it was hugely fortunate Lewis’ last 2 races went the way they did that year and avoided the embarrassment to the sport of having someone win a championship in a car whose constructor had been kicked out of the championship...
you know it wasn't the same right? the FIA knew from e-mails between the Mclaren drivers they were making simulator runs based on Ferrari's data while there is nothing like that for Toyota or Renault
@@Saturn185 Apart from the 2 Toyota guys who were found guilty of industrial espionage. And the WMSC meeting that found that although the ex-McLaren guy had taken a load of files, he'd only shown Renault 4 drawings - 3 apparently weren't of any use to them and the 4th was "going to be used to seek a clarification, not to copy". So that's OK then?
@@kookybadger156 yeah, Mclaren only got in trouble when Alonso opened his mouth even though the FIA already knew what Coughlan and Stepney had done before that
I would really love a discussion on this incident and how different it was (or not any different) than others teams getting hold of blueprints for cars and making a copy. From my memory, it was not a secret that a car was copied but nothing was done.
What a great video Elvis!! I thought it was fantastic. I am sorry tho mate, I could feel your pain. All the best from Australia!! I'm excited about next season, do you think some magic could happen with Riccardo and we get a podium?
I have your book Mark ,but you describing it brings it to life ..You reached the pinnacle of our trade, Sadly even in the high life of F1 a mechanic is a mechanic and you do not know what the bosses are up to ..You work your bollocks off ,and the actions of people can have an adverse effect on efforts ,you did nothing wrong but forgetting the fine , your efforts ,your hard graft ,even if it is the T car are wiped out ,null and void ..Even in my line ie trucks ,I can work my ass off do a brilliant job have no come backs ,But if others do not put in the effort ,then i am tarred with the same brush...On a side note I watched a Mike Brewer vid on you tube ,and YOU are destined for new things in the Wheeler Dealer fold , can you enlighten us ??? This video is in my top 2..Kepp up the good work ,I wont have to read the book at this rate ,can I get a refund lol
Hi Marc, loving the tales from the treehouse stories. Makes me want to buy your book even more. Do you have any stories about the 'Crashgate' saga with Piquet crash at Singapore.. I think it was 2008
My boss was Italian and he was like a madman with his behaviour and quite rightly so regarding the escapade during that season but when it settled down he still had a bee in his bonnet
Hi mark. I've read conflicting statements on the actual effectiveness of the mclaren horns that were on the cars from 2005. People saying anything from they helped immensely in cleaning up airflow off the airbox to them being a development trap for other teams to waste time trying to find the perceived benefit. How effective were they, if you're allowed to say?
I've finally worked it out! The guitar music at the start is a nice homage to "The Singing Corner" with Trevor and Simon (from Going Live), isn't it? :)
If you guys in the comments haven’t, you really need to read his book. I don’t normally binge read, but I finished this one in like 3 days. It’s not only full of great stories like this, but it’s well written.
I just had second hand trauma seeing you read through the pages and reliving the entire debacle. Even though I wanted Kimi to win that year I also wanted McLaren to win the constructor's title. You guys truly deserved it that year. You had the best car. I have a small query about that year. If the team that year consisted of Kimi and Lewis instead of Fernando and Lewis that year, in your opinion do you think the relationship would have been more harmonious?
I would love to hear who the team was behind in 2007. Alonso or Hamilton was it like Alonso says that they were putting their money on Hamilton later that season or was Alonsos Ego standing in his way? What did the guys in the garage though about that?
Hi Marc, There is an interesting theory assembled by a Spanish journalist, around all the 2007 ( involving the Honda-Gate and posterior Brawn GP). Sadly he passed away but the blog still there up in the Net. Would be nice to share with you and know your opinion about it. :)
@@F1Elvis Here it goes (I got your book btw). This is the blog, carloscastella.com/ carloscastella.wordpress.com/2011/01/10/01-el-escandalo-2007-preambulo/ I am afraid it is in Spanish but I will try to summarize. Carlos Castellá passed away in 2015. He was a motorsport journalist and TV commentator, in F1, NASCAR , WTCC, DTM, World Series, Indy Car for many years. Going to the words he left. He proposed an alternative reading to what happened not only in 2007 but around the few years before and after this 2007 scandal. He clearly states it is just....a theory. I remember he started by stating how incredible was that someone in a copy shop in the middle of nowhere was able to get and reach the attention of high people inside Ferrari, with a crazy story, by just using the very few public contact details that where available on internet to do so. While pointing out that even for himself was really difficult to get an email response from Ferrari or Mclaren when emailing their press departments himself ( not even ack receipt) with his journalist credentials. The whole copy shop story was made up as a channel to make it officially, but by the time of the whole story was released to the public (he went to a copy shop and yadayadayada) , all the knots were already tied up between Ferrari, FIA and Mclaren on how the penalties were going to be and how to compensate Ferrari. Mclaren was forced to pay a fine ( actually never paid...otherwise we would have seen huge shrink in Mclaren staff in 2008...fine was $100 Million....just saying ) and...behind the scenes... forced to fail on clinching the championship (China gravel trap and Brasil button press/gearbox issue a coincidence?). Your usual conspiracy theory until here. (1999 is a good example of internal decisions that lead to not winning a championship and with a few common actors in both stories). Now the EXTRA. Stepney had interviews with Nick Fry (Honda) during the winter 2006, as he was looking for a new job after not being promoted internally (Team coordinator went to Luca Baldisierri and technical director went to Marco Almondo) and Fry also was given/showed the Ferrari dossier. This didn't worked at all and given the situation of the Honda-gate with the secret fuel tank in 2005, It was time for Fry to redeem himself by not hiring Stepney and ringing Jean Todt and Max Mosley and disclosing this information (you dont want to be caught in a cheating scandal twice). Something that later on paid him back by getting a seat at BRawnGP. Just to note that Ferrari had a similar case in 2003 with information leaking from Ferrari to Toyota (Mauro Iacconi y Angelo Santini), being this case closed in 2007. Stepney unhappiness, the misterious white powder found on Schumacher 2006 car at the Italian GP and the previous info leak cases....for sure Ferrari eyes were wide open ON Stepney. 17th May was when Coughlan and her wife were put on the spot but was not until 15th June the police went to the couple´s house and found (still) copies of the dossier. For sure they got a month to get rid of it..... strange isn't? or maybe that was agreed as a way to exculpate Mclaren. So the FIA council resolution comes out, Mclaren is guilty but cannot prove it did actually used the data to take an advantage on the car design. Fry get the OK from Ferrari to get Brawn to Honda as a thank you for his good behavior (Brawn was on sabbatical during 2007 and looking for an escape from Ferrari, so he might as well played a role as a facilitator in this story). The rest is history for Fry who went from having his head hanging on a rope in 2007 to make it all way through Brawn and Mercedes. McLaren is too big to fail, too big to get banned and the audience was going up with the duel Alonso-Hamilton. Forget about banning Mclaren or fining him with astronomic figures...that will be the end for a high tech company (with just arrived Dubai investors) and not the kind of thing that Bernie likes: remember Santander, Vodafone were main sponsors. On top of that it doesn't look good that a team that has been on the spot for cheating....wins the championship. Additionally Max Mosley wanted Ron Dennis head, something that he got in 2009 when Ron head was chopped as Mclaren Principal. On Dennis style he went down taking Max with him ( with some help from Briattore)...after the sex video scandals of 2008. That finished a long time feud between them by both resigning from their roles in 2009. Once everything was tied up, it was down to Ron Dennis to manage internally...how to lose. Unfortunately that was a difficult task to do...having the two most competitive drivers of the paddock on both his cars. After the Hungarian incident it was not difficult for Ron to ensure both drivers were going to get equal treatment as he knew none of them will win it. Alonso went out of control, so did Hamilton and the rest is well known. Many strange things happened in both Mclaren cars after Hungary, and it is not the first time things are pre-arranged in the backstage of F1 lobbies. I hope you enjoyed. Capitán Rocket. PS: the true final ending of the RON/MAX feud was after the Renault crash-gate, when the last head standing was chopped.
Wasn’t the thing that got McLaren in trouble that they reported Ferrari for a flexi-floor, a floor they only knew about as they had fake plans from Ferrari?
It must've been an awful thing to be part of - you work your butts off, do a great job and get yourself into a championship-winning position, and one guy, ONE bad apple screws it up for everyone. I remember to this day hearing about the $100,000,000 fine and thinking it was the end of McLaren. The use of Ferrari data within the team was a very serious contravention of rules, but to this day I can't help thinking that the punishment was over the top. What do you think Marc - how extensively was the Ferrari data used within McLaren? Did the punishment fit the crime in your view?
Whilst there's a lot to knock him for, I'm afraid you're letting your dislike of Fernando get away from you. Fernando had nothing at all to do with Spygate - at the McLaren end, that was entirely down to Mike Couglin. Fernando certainly tried to use it as a weapon against Ron, which was both petty and nasty.
Liegate 2009, trying to get Trulli unfairly disqualified - Hamilton Baku 2017, deliberately crashing into another driver - Vettel Jerez 1997, deliberately crashing into another driver - Schumacher Monaco 2006, blocking other drivers in qualifying - Schumacher But apparently "Alonso bad".
This is just an overview of what was going on during one of the most infamous periods in F1 history. The thing is that the copying shop incident was not an isolated event and only for this event McLaren were cleared in June. What actually transpired is that the exchange of information which took place by email was about detailed setups for specific components at specific races. FA's patience running out with LH not following team rules and honoring agreements while the team management was doing nothing about that, was trigger for the incriminating emails being made public. Initially MM wanted McLaren thrown out of F1 for 2 years but there was a deal struck with BE, who was undoubtedly more concerned about the financial side of the sport to suspend McLaren as a team for the current year and have them pay a fine of 100M split in two, 5M for the offence and 95M for Ron being... Ron. This deal was a much better financial recipe for BE as the drivers championship was still in play as well as McLaren who was running yearly budgets between 400-500M at that time. I bet the drivers were initially happy with the official deal but as it is quite usual with deals which are not done by the book little did they know there was a secret addendum to it.
Then a few months later Toyota and Renault were found guilty with the same accusations but they got away with it. Come on, let's face reality, it was only an excuse for Mosley to get his revenge against Ron Dennis. No more than that. The punishment doesn't fit the crime, the data was never used to built even a single piece of the McLaren car
Chris McLaren Of course, but the amount of evidence was probably a lot less. And I don’t remember there constantly being emails about setups. Stepney on his vindictive spree set up some spy ring. As for the punishment, there’s also a deterring factor to it that seems to have worked as the media didn’t report any such high profile cases since. One must also look at the positives from that season and acknowledge that McLaren finally did their utmost and made Kimi a world champion.
Its hilarious the way you are trying to exonerate Alonso's actions with a false narrative that it was all because the team favoured Hamilton. Have you even read Marc's book, mate? Alonso is the one who every team member was fawning over before the season started as they were over the moon with high expectations that the man who had just dethroned Schumacher was going to be leading their charge for championship success. Hamilton? Hamilton who? Nobody cared about Lewis at first. They all saw him as the novice rookie who would play a supporting role to Alonso and their was political infighting behind the scenes with some of the crew members going against team protocol asking senior personnel to make sure they got assigned Alonso's car and guess what? Alonso was given Mika's champiinship winning crew which also happened to be Raikkonen's crew as well. Working for Hamilton was absolutely seen as working for the #2 car and the people who were given that job weren't very happy about it. Well, until Hamilton proved everyone wrong, which didn't take too long. And if you really want to talk about fairness it wasn't until race 6 in Canada that Dennis started treating Hamilton equally. That's when the problems really started because Alonso's couldn't handle not having #1 billing at all. Marc even describes in his book how Alonso started alienating himself within the team as Hamilton stole the media spotlight away from him and emerged as a superstar. The fact Alonso became so annoyed at the British reaction to Hamilton is just unbelievably hypocritical from Alonso considering the fact that Spain treats him like a god. He has the same fanatical following that Max has from the Dutch contingent. I mean I could go on all day. Marc has made it clear for well over a decade that Alonso was fully supported by a dedicated, loyal crew of mechanics and engineers all season long as they had a fierce rivalry with Hamilton's side of the garage in a team that was split in two. It was not Alonso vs McLaren. It was Alonso's side vs Hamilton's side and even though Ron obviously had his own personal issues with Alonso after being blackmailed by him, with Alonso using his own illegal involvement in the Spygate Scandal, Ron allowed Alonso to remain at the team to fight Hamilton for championshop when he could have easily just got rid of him. Just quit insulting everyone's intelligence by trying to play Alonso off as the victim. He played big boy games with some of the most influential people within the industry and only has himself up blame for it all blowing up in his own face. So not only did Hamilton become a McLaren world champions instead of him and Alonso not win a single title after Hamilton beat him but his actions literally cost him the chance to drive for Mercedes in the hybrid era. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
How much involvement did ALO have in that...?he got his Ferrari seat after that...was it due to what he’d done to help McLaren get that info or to inform the FIA about what was going on to help get his Ferrari seat?!
That book is on my wish list even with dislexiya, I can't read for crap but really wonna read this book so went to buy but £104 is to much at the moment due to the ferlow =80% rubbish due to a health condition but when am aloud back I be finding a copy for sure! Just a question elvis will u be doing anther season of wheeler dealers????
@@F1Elvis i think it would Marc think there be many that would like audio including my self for sure if am unable to read any larger words it may have. I Think it's a good idea mate💡👍👊
Question for you.......had did you feel when Kimi won in 2007. Were you actually happy for him as it was due time he won(All the years of what could have been at McLaren). Maybe even a bit of revenge for Lewis and Alonso not giving a shit that McLaren was thrown out of the Constructors championship? Just curious.......Ron must have been a little defeated seeing his star driver leave McLaren after years of being let down and go on to defeat Mclaren his first year>
Good to hear your side of the story. Did Lewis really had gearbox issue in Brazil or did you guys leave the championship (rightfully) to Ferrari & Kimi? I guess it would be difficult to declare Alonso or Lewis becoming world champion with basically an illegal deemed car. Luckely Kimi won and we didn't had that discussion
@@F1Elvis so Im guessing Spa 2008 was the same deal? and thanks for the reply, I love your videos, and yes as a fan of Mclaren I to still get fred up over this, and Spa 2008
#AskElvis Hi Marc, amazing to hear this story from the inside. At the time I really felt like losing the drivers title was staged. Lewis needed 4 points with two Grands Prix to go. While driving the best car of the field. And he did not get it because of a really strange stategy and retirement (China) and a weird steering wheel bug (Brazil). I was wondering if you ever heard anything about that. Thanks! Keep the great stories coming!
Almost sounds like Kimi winning the drivers' championship was a well-deserved punch to the gut to the two teams working on Fernando's and Lewis' cars, given their attitude. Yeah, sucks when your own livelihood all of the sudden depends on a couple of big wigs who generally 'politely disagree' with each other coming to some sort of an arrangement because your mate acted like a complete knob.
@@F1Elvis for me this is the proof that all this spyjoke-story was just a personal vendetta against Ron by Mosley. And to help ferrari win another easy championship... You know, that what Ecclestone and Mosley were doing in those years, Ecclestone himself admitted it. Year after year the anger rises instead of coming down... They stole it from you guys
Why you feel like it's the worst scandal in f1 history? I mean, espionage has always been part of the sport. When an engineer goes to a rival team, for sure he brings with him some of the know-how of his ex-team (like last year and the way we've got to know the illegal renault braking system). Isn't this, practically, the same thing? Today we have a team which is literally a copy of the Mercedes and the FIA it's all good with that lmao. I'd also love to know what are your feelings about Renault and Toyota, who later were found guilty of the same accusations as McLaren, but funny enough they never faced the same penalties. Doesn't seems a bit odd to you? There was no proof the blueprints were used to built the MP4-22 and you know better than me that the ferrari's car was a different car with a different design philosophy... And after what Ecclestone said about Mosley's personal fight against Ron Dennis, i can't help but think that all of this was a personal vendetta against Ron, so nothing to do with the sport. Then there's also that other interview Ecclestone gave to an italian newspaper where he admitted that him and Mosley had an agenda to make ferrari win because "it has always been the best thing to do for the sport"...
Yes, that's exactly what it was, a personal vendetta against Ron, and that's why Renault and Toyota weren't punished in the same way, but there was still no question we were guilty. Espionage is one thing, stealing confidential drawings and documents is another.
Beaware of the bot like comments which say "loved it", enjoyed it or wanna be friends, they are hackers which are able to log into accounts by using some kind of vulnerability Dont click on them or respond or like them
#AskElvis - Which one current F1 driver do you think will have benefited most from this extended break in preparation for the (hopeful) imminent resumption of F1 racing?
@@F1Elvis I'd respectfully beg to differ - they could be honing their hand-eye and acuity skills, their public image, their social skills, maybe even using racing games as light training, (racing lines etc) and staying as fit as is humanely possible so that when the racing does resume they're on their A-game from the very first corner of FP1. ;) The thing is, who will make the best use of the time? Who will come back to racing on their best form ready to take on the challenge of actually racing?
Marc, although I understand your sentiments, you have always said that F1 is very competitive and people search for the borderlines. If this information came to you, would you discard it or use it. I think I'm an honest person, but in these circumstances maybe I would use it. In anyway it gave McLaren an competitive advantage, so the title would have been not fair. OK to search for the edge, and also ok if you get caught...being part of a team is also to deal with this and not look for someone to blame. Everybody wanted the same thing. If you really felt bad, you should have blamed top management and decided that you didn't want to work for that company. Not 1 person as a scapegoat. BTW I enjoy your videos, been a subscriber for years, so this is not against you, merely a comment on the views you express in this particular video
I'm not saying we should have kept the title, I wanted to win it fairly, which we should have done. Top management knew nothing of this, it was one rogue person in our team who colluded with another person at Ferrari, so that's who I was angry with.
@@F1Elvis Marc, first of all, thanks for answering, I really appreciate that. I find it hard to believe, having been in top performing teams myself that there was 1 rogue person and nobody else knew...but I wasn't there, Although this might have been a disappointing moment in your career, I think the verdict was fair, especially giving the drivers the opportunity to compete for the championship..it could have been much worse
@@F1Elvis I've been telling people for years that top management weren't in on it but these days there's so many people writing blogs and making RU-vid videos claiming that they were in on it that the narrative has spread like wildfire.
Can only imagine how crushing it must have been for you.. as a fan it was bad enough. Given the 2 drivers in the team at the time I felt that Lewis hadnt paid his dues in F1 to be the champ (winning a championship in your debut always seems wrong to me) and Fernando's selfish characteristics (I understand all champions have a big bit of that) never made me feel he was a proper part of the team, meant while I wanted the team to do well I wasn't desperate for either to be the drivers champ. For me the best result would be Kimi getting a well deserved title while McLaren won the constructors title. I was gutted when "my" teams hard work was deleted by the underhanded actions of a couple of people. I totally understand your emotions after all this time as on a tiny scale it still bugs me. Even if McLaren had been allowed to keep the points and win the title it would have been tainted, like winning at poker with a marked deck. Thanks for your insider insight into this Marc.
@@F1Elvis Because not everyone in the industry likes hearing their mistakes from the past. I personally love hearing the stories but I can imagine some people rather leave the past in the past. I do hope you make many more of these videos
It's just history, it won't go away if I, or anyone else, don't mention it anymore. I don't think I'm saying anything that's secret or puts McLaren in an unnecessarily bad light.
