What do you think about Thunderbolt 4? Are you disappointed? Comment your thoughts below! Get our Premium Apple Product Hoodie ➡ ru-vid.com/show-UCptwuAv0XQHo1OQUSaO6NHwstore Like the wallpapers in this video? Download them here ➡ bit.ly/2WNc6Qw
Love it. I was worried that we were not going to get as much bandwidth as we initially did but now at least it’s safe to say that the future is looking bright for arm macs.🤔
Sounds good, but they could have made things clearer... I mean that's a lot of things to remember and look for. And, once again, I dislike the usb-c connector because it is not physically robust at all. One wrong move and you damage something.
That is the weirdest Thunderbolt update ever.. More like Thunderbolt 3.01? USB4 is one of the best updates ever though. I thought the most important thing to update with TB was to get the speed and dual bandwidth(?) to match a PCI slot so that eGPU’s and such can live up to their full potential? It should be mandatory from now on to print an icon next to every port, and onto every cable, telling us what it is.
Not knowing what the cable will support is my only gripe with USB-C. What version of USB? What kind of power delivery? Even just something indicating that it's dedicated to one purpose. I have a cable that's displayport on one end and plugged into my monitor and USB-C on the other, but you wouldn't know it's a display port only cable unless you trace it back to its source. Or those 'special' cables Oneplus has for fast charging should have some kind of indicator on them. USB-IF needs to get on that.
in the end i guess they chose an umambiguous branding difference to ensure a certain minimal standard, not sure why they create an addtional controller chip however as they could just enforce any usb4 that meet their criteria to be certified as thunderbolt 4. tho i suppose since thunderbolt 4 will be integrated into their new cpus we have no idea if thunderbolt 4 devices will even require a chip at this point. also apple silicon supporting thunderbolt may also be an reason by they need a controller chip out there hmmm
I was really worried about if Apple would continue to use the thunderbolt specification in the future ARM based Macs, it is a relief to hear that they will be using thunderbolt 4 and continue to support thunderbolt 3.
But Apple didn't say they'd support thunderbolt 4 specifically, just that they'd support thunderbolt. They may just continue to use thunderbolt 3 in their ARM macs. They will probably support Thunderbolt 4 but it wasn't stated explicitly.
4 years later, someone is still learning from video. You and your team is awesome. Thank you for this really informative and easily explained video!!!!
Requiring Intel’s VT-d protection for DMA is actually a massive improvement in terms of security. As it currently stands plugging a malicious Thunderbolt 3 device into your machine can read or write to your system’s RAM and do nefarious things such as retrieve sensitive information or overwrite your password with a known one so the attacker can log in as if they were you.
Thunderbolt 4 would still require the Intel chip because of VT-d. What Apple might be trying to do is work with Intel to allow Apple's T2 chip to also do what the VT-d chip does. From extremetech article: "Alternately, it’s possible that Intel and Apple will sign some kind of technology license, allowing the DMA protection Intel enforces via VT-d to be implemented on a future Apple ARM chip or specialized security processor like the T2." Without this agreement, Apple would still have to buy and install the VT-d chip, which is worthless on a Mac since Apple already has plenty of specialized security hardware and software and doesn't need anything from Intel. I don't know what external component vendors will be required to do to continue to support Thunderbolt but hopefully they won't have to continue to use Intel's overpriced hardware, thereby being able to reduce the cost on Thunderbolt peripherals.
I read that security requirement isn’t Intel specific, but rather that style of protection, such that AMD system are a possibility (and AMD has released statement to this effect)
Just got the notification that my hoodie (same exact one you’re wearing in this video) is now shipping! YAY! Also just glad I have there 2020 13” MacBook Pro with 4 Thunderbolt 3 ports, they’ve been a lifesaver in my workflow!
I dont get this thing. I've never had any problem plugging it. There's a logo which should always be upwards. And if it's reversed you see a line on the connector which you dont' see when it's the right side up.
Very nice. Did you guys end up selling the Mac Pro like you were planning to and replacing it with a MacBook Pro with a 5600m? If so, how do you like it, and is that what y'all are using to edit?
Was going to get a laptop with a 9th gen Intel CPU with Thunderbolt 3, but after having seen how well AMD is doing and with USB 4.0 somewhere on the horizon, I have high hopes that they'll implement both.
This is a fascinating video. It is an extremely complex area, confusing and misleading from the lack of attention paid to the consumer by the manufacturers. I am grateful to Max Tech for providing a clear, concise, understandable, well produced compelling explanation of the current mess. Many people will be mislead by what is happening, this video blows away lots of the fog. Thank you MT.
egpus perform worse than dgpu in mb pro in some peoductivity test despite the egpu having more raw performance. And that happens due to bandwith limitaion. So 32gbps on tb4 (instead of 16gbps on tb3) should resolve the issue right?
That’s the minimum spec. I think Thunderbolt 3 already does 32Gbps but I’m not sure if it has other limitations on top of that which could be removed with Thunderbolt 4.
Be careful buying usb-c cables. Most sold on Amazon only support USB 2.0 speed of 480 Mbit/s. I found a 4 foot cable (USB 4 Cable for Thunderbolt 4 Cable 4 FT, VCOM 100W Cable with 40Gbps Data and 8K@30Hz 5K@60Hz or Dual 4K Video,Compatible with Thunderbolt 3/4 Cable and USB-C,for MacBooks,Hub, Docking, and More) for $20 from VCOM.
Private679 R.I.C.O both of my iPad and my phones RU-vid update is about a year old so I don’t get the features. The comment section is in the old place for me and I have the old mini player on the iPad. I recently watched some videos on an updated device I realized it that time that there is a feature like this.
A post M1 Mac update to this would be good. We are seeing USB4 / TB4 Docks and they seem to work well, although they all seem to have a front side input which is good for laptops but bad for desktops. The M1 killed eGPU support. USB4 / TB4 cables aren’t available.
The PCIe bandwidth being doubled to 32 Gb/s seems like a pretty big jump to me. I feel like this would make both high and low end eGPU setups much more worthwhile.
Yeah but not all thunderbolt 3 cables transfer the same speed or power. So how does one know If they are using a thunderbolt 3 or 4 cable if they have the same icon?
I’m slowly starting to understand all these new ports. I just brought a new Mac Mini to replace my 2012 iMac and I had no idea why reviews and spec sites were calling the USB-C ports “thunderbolt 3”.
Actually thunderbolt was created by Intel and Apple together SO I makes sense that they can make it work with Apple silicon bcoz they have rights to the technology.
So if you want a good thunderbolt 3 and USB 4 cable you could get a thunderbolt 4 cable? What I am getting from the video is that thunderbolt 4 is practically a certification that a cable can support the full functionality of thunderbolt3/usb4
USB Type-C can support DisplayPort output without TB3. The problem (difference) comes when you want to hook up multiple displays, then USB 3.2 bandwidth might not be enough.
For me the main mystery comes one we talk about power adapters (power delivery). It is stated that USB-C connector can transfer up to 100w of energy. But for example Dell has AC adapters for XPS/Precision line of laptops, that provides 130w (e.g. www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-130-watt-type-c-3-prong-ac-adapter-with-32-ft-power-cord/apd/450-ahom/pc-accessories) . And it works. How could that be?
As someone who has read extensively on the topics of USB-C, USB 3 (all versions), USB4, Thunderbolt 3 & Thunderbolt 4, I can tell you that this video does the best job I've ever seen in clarifying these concepts. Thank you very much! 3 things I'm not clear about: 1. When a laptop manufacturer chooses to implement Thunderbolt 4 (40 Gbps of course), does that port have to support USB4 40 Gbps, or can the manufacturer choose to only support USB4 20 Gbps? 'Cause remember, with Thunderbolt 3 ports, the TB3 connection is at 40 Gbps, but the USB connection could either be SuperSpeed 10 Gbps or SuperSpeed 20 Gbps. That was left up to the manufacturer, so now I'm wondering whether it's the same with USB4 40 Gbps & USB4 20 Gbps. 2. I saw the compact Thunderbolt 4 dock. My question is: When Intel says the dock has four (4) Thunderbolt 4 ports, does that include the port that's connected to the laptop? In other words, will we have a total of five (5) ports - One connected to the laptop, and four (4) free ones, or will we have a total of four (4) ports - one connected to the laptop, and three (3) free ones? 3. The compact Thunderbolt 4 dock, is it only powered via the TB4 connection to the laptop, or does it require its own power supply?
1. Yes. In a nutshell, USB4 is essentially combining both USB 3 Gen 2x2 and Thunderbolt 3 into a single standard. However, in USB4, Thunderbolt 3 is optional, meaning that you could have 20-40 Gbps bandwidth depending on the laptop manufacturer's decision to use Thunderbolt 3 or not. Now, in Thunderbolt 4, all they're really doing is using USB4, but forcing the usage of Thunderbolt 3 for 40 Gbps bandwidth (bidirectional) and forcing DMA security. In Thunderbolt 4, they're achieving the higher display resolutions by allowing the data lanes to change to a single direction, enabling 80 Gbps of bandwidth for video. 2. The connection from a dock/hub to the laptop is referred to an upstream port, whereas the connection from a dock/hub to another peripheral is a downstream port. My assumption is that four Thunderbolt ports means that there are four downstream ports for peripherals and one upstream port for the laptop. 3. Most all docks I've seen are self-powered, so I'd expect this to be the same. Hubs are different as they'll draw power directly from the device and can sometimes offer the ability to provide power.
The most important 2 features of Thunderbolt 4. 1. Minimum standard for cables and support are raised, so you don't get below spec devices on a daisy chain which can hinder other devices. 2. This is the biggest one. Thunderbolt 4 requires all devices to have DMA protection so it can be locked down. DMA hack vectors keep these devices out of profitable government contracts and some businesses. As TBT is going to on ARM Macs, it makes you wonder how much involvement Intel has on this, and possibly why legal X86 emulation (at least in the demo) worked so well.
So, Thunderbolt 4, USB4, what does it mean for us? Would that be less of the bottleneck when using it as an external GPU? Does USB4 even support external GPU?
So will I be able to use the cheaper external USB 4 devices (like eGPUs) on a 15 inch MacBook Pro (2019) or will I still have to buy the expensive Thunderbolt 3 stuff?
so to conect a 2020 m1 bacbook to a mid 2017 imac 21.5', i would need a usb4 or thunderbolt 4? would i also be able connect to an additional monitor? i want to run everything off the macbook and display mirror it to the imac, and then use an old tv as a second monitor
What about Target mode with the new M1 MacBook Air and Pro? I will need to transfer data/apps/Users from my old MacBook Pro 2012 with its Firewire 800...I'm confused - It's no clear to me which Thunderbolt to Firewire 800 adapter I will need to buy? I would appreciate your help on this subject. Thank you
I can't decide if better to buy an M1 Mac Mini with 8gbRAM+512gb SSD or 16gbRAM+256gb SSD. They are both in my budget and nearly same price. Does Thunderbolt 4/USB4 make data transfer fast enough that it doesn't matter if work on files, movies and songs from an external SSD?
I literally just gave away a $2k MacBook Pro 2018 because of all thunderbolt issues and dongles. So tired of apple propriety bs and switch to Windows Surface... now everything just works! - great video!
What kind of hub would you recommend for a display monitor connection display, an external USB (white) microphone, a USB (white) external camera and also like to charge using the thunderbolt. Is that possible?
Did I miss backwards compatibility info? My laptop has TB3, so will I be able to plug in USB-4/TB4 accessories into it and take advantage of the same 40Gbps theoretical maximum speed?
Within the minimum specs for USB4 on the Intel board it doesn't say anything about PCIe connection, on TB3 it says minimum requirement 16 GBytes/s which would be 2xPCIe3.0 or 1xPCIe4, though afaik TB3 is always connected to 4 PCIe3.0 lanes... So I'm even more confused than before. Does USB4 always have TB3 support and does TB3 means what TB3 means (4xPCIe3.0 lanes) or does it sometimes have TB support, sometimes not and sometimes it may have but is connected with fewer lanes as the standard otherwise dictates????
1:22 It can get pretty faulty if it gets dust in it, or if the shield snaps from the PCB because the joint was not strong enough. Granted, usb3.0 type A was pretty irritating, especially when something forced them back to 2.0 mode. Type-C smashed that problem. Do not get me wrong all 3 ports are very awesome, but someone needs to solve the strength and conduction problems before trying to shove 40gib/s through the cable. I think it could be as simple as using those old Kingston lock ports to add structural rigidity. (For docks, and maybe like a sidecar to 90 the ports over.) Never-the-less, great video, and happy to have it and share it before confusion sets in.
what needs to happen is the devices need to say what they are connected as... like on the screen of a device in will say 40gb or 5gb like as a floating icon over the drive or something? Or on the task bar maybe.
I am glade to see Apple support thunderbolt. It should play a lot of fears. But I really wish they would be more forthcoming about what's on these new Macs. Any system shipping this year must be almost finalized. I am going to guess they are waiting to create there promotional material before sharing a lot of these facts. But there are a lot of users that have invested in docks, eGPUs and 10gbe networking and some of us want to know if this is still a good idea.
Is there one cable to rule them all? If I wanted to power the latest and greatest laptop and use that same cable to charge, lets say the s21 ultra when it drops. What wall wart would you get?
I'm not still clear about the relationship between Thunderbolt-x and USB-y. Are they just different names for the same thing? I'd appreciate it if you could explain it when you update this video clip.
It's been a dream of mine to run my computers in one room of my house and just run cables to each room. That way I can keep one room climate controlled and not worry too much about noise and heat production. Would a fiber optic Thunderbolt 3 cable to a peripheral hub allow me to do this?
so bacially usb 4 is exactly the same port that has been on macs since 2016? since every mac since then has always had thunderbolt 3 and usb c on the same port..... only PC's had the issue of not having this.....
That's kinda disappointing. Nice streamlining and I like the longer cable a ton, but man, a doubling in speed would have been nice. Daisy chaining doesn't make sense if the main device saturates the connection, which egpus do. Also, given that this standard will be around for a few years, no mention of pcie gen 4 is a bit worrying.
So with the Controller chip integrated within the CPU. means that Thunderbolt will support Windows and other devices within USB4 outputs in the future?
What's that thing on top of the GPU enclosure @ 5:27? It looks like a little monitor that's showing what's on the screen in the background but I don't understand why.
Ive been watching what feels like 50 video at this point trying to understand this concept a little more. This was the best overview so far on the three of the latest releases, but i can't find one that breaks down the connections between devices. Technically i can buy a bad cable for $5 and it'll charge/transfer whatever but not efficiently or at the risk of harming devices. So I what I'm trying to understand is if your device has Thunderbolt 3, does your cable need to be specifically thunderbolt 3? Does your charging block specifically need to be thunderbolt 3? Does it matter if the cable is thunderbolt 4, but your charging block is USB 2.2x2? That's the part I'm struggling to find any information on.
Just a few factual errors I thought I'd correct: usb c is just the connector, you could also have a usb c port that's usb 2(notably some early usb c phones had this) not just the variations of 3 and 4, also usb c also supports displayport (not 100% of the time, like pc motherboards with a ryzen chip without integrated graphics won't output anything if you tried to connect display over usb c port on the motherboard) not just thunderbolt
Apple’s current M1-based laptops as well as the Mac Mini support Thunderbolt 4. I do not know if they are paying Intel any royalties for Thunderbolt 4 support, but the support is integrated on the M1 chip. This means, you may use a Thunderbolt 4 hub with any of the M1 Macs. The biggest complaint I hear about the M1 Macs is the fact that they only have two Thunderbolt ports (especially the Mac Mini). But the Intel-based Mac Mini with four Thunderbolt ports only has two Intel Thunderbolt controllers. If you use a Thunderbolt 4 hub with a Mac Mini, you wind up with four ports at the same speed as the ports on the Intel-based Mac Mini (and yes, I do understand that you have to pay more than the cost of the Mac Mini for that capability, but I find it understandable that Apple chose to not build a Thunderbolt 4 hub into the Mac Mini).
