Thunderer Doesn't Belong In The Game | Before 10.0 Buff 

PQ: "A ship that requires no skill to play is bad to the game!" WG: "We heard you loud and clear. Here's a new dead eye 'skill' to make said ship requires even less game skill!"

"Thunderer is a CV not a Battleship" that is GOLD

I can’t express how much I can relate to the pain I hear in your voice. This game is one of my all time favorites and I’m watching it slowly turn into the mess that it is now. It’s sad.

Imagine thinking removing a ship from sale is a valid form of balancing

Thunderer has no business having such good HE. You already have the super short reload, BATTLE FREAKING CRUISER dispersion on hyper accurate 457s, decent AA (though that doesn’t really matter), pretty good firing angles, an improved heal (albeit not a super heal but better than standard) and very good range stock. The fact that WG looked at this and figured it still needed HE that can do 20k+ alpha with 3 fires against an angled BB from 20km away blows my mind. Then again this is the same company that thinks CVs are healthy for the game so I wouldn’t put much past them at this point.

PQ just casually matches my all time high that took me 4 years to get, that i did in a conq with 19 fires by the way lol

I have to say, I've been having a lot of fun at tier 10 in my shima; if we can get a hole in a flank I can slip through and ruin the lives of all those thunderers. I have devoted my shima gameplay to relentlessly bullying them.

PotatoQuality: I don't get it, does WG hate brawling? Do they hate pushing in? Do they want this game to be a snipe fest?... Me: *Looks at commander rework...

Reason you can't understand it is because you are thinking about its place in the game balance rather than its place in the games earnings. While the thunderer is free, it smolensk and FDR have all been reward ships that take grinding to work towards. They take time to get and by being so powerful encourage people to grind. That way people are more likely to buy premiums cause they are playing, premium time etc. Then they announce their removal. People get worked up and obsessively try to get them. This was smolensk a year ago and thunderer now, at this point you see peak population. But they can't stay overpowered forever. Because it they stay at this state then people won't want the next release. So they start say changing ifhe. Or the captain skills change and look smolensk doesnt have aft. Its all strategic to take them out while reworking other things. Having then taken them out there then goes a period of a ship just having been released that flies under the radar for a bit until it gets noticed as being so powerful. And so people grind again. Release of powerful easier to use ships is all strategic to encourage people to grind with FOMO

Here is how I would change HE, remove the fire chance from none penetrating shells and make the superstructure a part that takes less damage in general.

When I talk about Thunderer being a problem while in Thunderer I get called a Hypocrite. When Potato Quality does the same he's praised. Never change Internet.

It should be introduced a mechanic that at max range the probability of fire is for example 50% of the 63% (stock Thunderer) witch will be 31,5% fire chance. And proportionally increasing the fire chance til 100% at standard detectability range. So the further away is your target, the less HE fire chance will be. At the same time dead eye should be removed.

As a counter argument, I just brawled a Thunderer with a Bismarck at a health disadvantage AND with his buddies shooting at me. It wasn't my secondaries that killed him, it was my knowledge of angling and how to brawl. He almost clapped me, but I finished him off with a quadruple citadel. Had 1000 hp remaining. I DO HOWEVER understand that Thunderer is too easy to play, too overpowered.

I agree with you on every point you make about the Thunderer. I also have the Thunderer and i even feel dirty playing it in co-op when i was needing fires and cits for one of the missions for the Hizen dockyard and like you said the main problem with the Thunderer is the insane HE that allows you to rack up massive damage without having to worry about angle or armor.

The only fun moment I can remember since the patch went live was when I got 3 citadels on a Thunderer in my Yamato. Yamato is fucking broken with Dead Eye but deleting a cancerous Thunderer player felt so good. Hiding didn't save him, HE didn't save him. Made him wait 10 mins to play his broken ship again.

I personally don't think Thunderer is extremely overpowered. It's honestly not that different than the half dozen or so Cruisers which can HE spam you much harder than a Thunderer. Which make playing BBs harder because they can sit back and spam you with impunity.

I play this ship when WG makes stupid mission like 120 fires in BB.

"Nobody plays 457mm Conqueror, what should we do?" "Turn it into Thanos. And give it the Chaos Emeralds."

It was op before. But with 10.0 it is straight insane.

Thunderer and Yoshino are hilarious now, Thunderer doing 10k salvos and setting 3 fires on Kremlins...i love it

I've been using AP most of the time on my Thunderer, thanks for helping me realize I've been doing it all wrong!

It is a premium ship. It will never be directly nerfed. There are too many legal issues WG would have to deal with by nerfing it.

The ship you hate is the one I want to have. If Santa mega container in this year doesn't give me this ship, that would be highly disappointing

everyones so far back rn, shimas 20km torps are finally useful

With Dead Eye this thing hits 9 out of 8 shells :) Please nerf!!

I love the ingame chat at around 11:16......and the responce at 11:30.

I have HMS Thunderer. It took me quite a while to save up the quarter of a million coal to eventually get her. I don't actually play her that often as I feel kinda guilty melting any ship I like from 23 km away. I do actually switch shell type depending on target and opportunity but it is easy to sail slowly around spitting out hellfire from the other side of the map. The devastation a Thunderer can dish out is horrendous and it is a nasty experience to be on the receiving end of it. My favourite Royal Navy Battleship in my collection is HMS Vanguard and she's lovely. You actually have to use manouever, speed variation and her stealth to get the job done and she has the rudder and engine to do this which is great. Her 15in guns can dish out the hurt as well and I do actually prefer her , Bismarck, and the USS Georgia to the Thunderer as you have to vary your play and tactics from battle to battle but with HMS Thunderer.......not so much. HMS Thunder is beautiful and horrible at the same time. Beautiful because she's actually a very good ship, horrible because you know what you are doing to your opponent. Here comes the 'but'....... ........ but , Smolensk. ;-)

Your hatred for the Thunderer, I have the same for cv's. Another great review as always!!

How many other ships are exactly the same? But my opinion doesn't count since I'm not a unicom player.

I played in a game yesterday where there were 6 Thunderers, one mine! That certainly makes it more even!

My biggest issue with this ship is that this ship is in literally almost every single random match I play, since Thunderer was a ship available for coal and not steel, which meant literally everyone and their mother could get it and did. on top of the fact for some reason. Despite having the same number of guns and the same caliber of guns as the Ohio, a ship available for research points not coal, the Thunderer gets to reload 1.5 seconds faster than her, the Thunderer’s concealment is a whole 2.1km’s better than Ohio, and she gets broken HE to hard counter angled targets, as well as her very own dispersion table as if she even needs that to begin with. Majority of the community overshadowed this ship, calling it balanced, meanwhile calling Slava a broken ship despite her being uncharacteristically weak against even angled targets.

To quote you from the cv vid. Potato: "I like it because I am good at it" I like thunderer AP but as a ship I like conq more due to the superheal which alows a more agressive gameplay with objectives.

"It ain't worth playing tier X man." This did not age well. 😅

Seeing what this thing does, can u imagine whats gonna happen to the game when WeeGee adds in Italian BBs

PQ: The HE is mainly due to being a Royal Navy ship. The HE is just their main thing of the nation: weak AP, highly penetrating HE with a larger chance of setting fires. Although the AP tears through armor at -15km too. The dispersion on the ship however is beyond belief. That and the concealment could be nerfed as far as I'm concerned. Perhaps the rudder shift too as that too is something insane for a ship of her size...

I actually thought Thunderer would be a tier 10 Warspite and that’s why I got it. I was VERY disappointed to find that it wasn’t spectacular with AP. Because an accurate AP ship was right up my alley but now I guess it’s Yamato and Slava that’ll fill that role.

I totally agree, and one of my favourite things to see is when I manage to catch a Thunderer inside the secondary range of my Pommern/FDG/GK and watch as my secondaries eat it alive.

WG's decision really made no sense, it's as if they're purposely trying to piss their core-players off.

complety agree with you. When I am in my GK (before rework), the first thing I was looking in the MM was if there is a thunder and AFTER i was looking for DDs. As always, there was always a thunder and the first salvo from her was a fire or 2. I don't even play the game since the rewok. I feel complety disapointed by this rework.

This is what I've decided to do from now on when I play tier ten BB's, just play thunder and focus other Thunders and Conqs.

This video is the best promotion to get a Thunder. I've been saving my coal to get it. thx

I've been guilty of playing this ship often, and what you said is exactly why. It doesn't need too much brainpower. I do try to catch broadsides with the AP actively, but slinging HE across the match is a sure -fire go-to response if there's no target in sight. Most ships don't have the luxury of having ALL their salvos counted - except CVs and Thunderers. So your CV comment was spot-on as well!

Combined with Deadeye, this is one of a handful of reasons why World of Warships is no longer worth playing.

The sad thing is, for whatever reason, I'm far more inaccurate with the Thunderer than I am with other BB's. Just can't hit. But completely agree.

WG had a meeting about how to improve the game and someone said, it is too easy to push in and CV are too weak so lets reward long range HE sniping and CV needs a big buff. And everyone agree. This is how WG want us to play the game.

Love this bote! Just got it before being removed with coal and a little bit of steel. Definitely worth it.

Had a game yesterday with my Bismarck with 8 point captain. I pushed and wrecked the enemy team (130K), but I was burned down. I pushed because I saw our 3 full HP tier 7 BB's also push. After I died, those tier 7 BB's were 15 Km's away from the enemy team and running away...The were afraid, their Deadeye deactivated so they turned tail.

i feel you

Truth!! I hate seeing this ship when I'm in my Massachusetts, means no brawling

Honestly the Thunderer should play like Vanguard ideally. Limited by gun range has a lower fire chance and good AP. That's how it SHOULD be.

YOU SAID IT!!! I bet that dude was so pissed off but couldn't just quit the battle because that gives him further penalty by Wargaming!!!!!

Wargaming doesn't hate brawling, they hate German BB's. I really believe that, use to be a meme but I genuinely think the devs hate the idea of German battleships, look at their decisions. They made German BB's have a suboptimal gimmick, but fun, they then over time started adding in basically everything that destroys that gimmick. AA is useless so CV's can attack BB's no problem, they made HE and fires extremely effective, they add ships in that excel at spamming HE at 25km range, and the cherry on top is they made secondary's basically useless. So German BB's now have tons of useless armor, a useless turtleback, useless secondary's, the worst dispersion across all tiers in the game. They made Odin slightly competitive with it's health and secondary's and then nerfed, why? Why did they nerf it? Please if you have an answer reply I cannot figure it out. It was a premium ship people spent money on as well. The only German ship that was effective in the meta was Hindenburg ON ACCIDENT. WG is a joke at this point, the game has already peaked and will just get worse from here. The second another company makes a competitor, an actual worthy competitor this game will die just like WoT. I want to emphasize, they did not have to do any of this. Nothing was making them do this to the game, they already had a healthy player pool, they were already making money. The only thing I can see that motivated them to designing a meta were one nation is just statistically inferior and completely useless compared to all others is they get some weird nationalist pleasure out of it.

Sadly, you seem to be one of them... Not a single AP-salvo seen.

Your videos hit the nail of the head when comes to talking about cancerous, blatantly overpowered ships like the Thunderer. How this video can even have 94 dislikes is beyond me.

PQ: this was a rant Me: well, in a Canadian way, maybe. just maybe

lol those big guns reload on 22 sec. and I agree on everthing mr potato said

I'm just having fun playing Błyskawica with full gunboat Jerzy and that hilarious adrenaline rush. T7 doesn't get the best mm, but some ships have been brought to light with the patch.

I share your pain and philosophy. If you can't beat 'em, join 'em. Fun be damned.

Nerfing premiums is a whole can of worms... I think WG won't go that way, because they tried it with Giulio Cesare and it didn't work out. That being said, your analysis is pretty well spot on. I think you're right too... people want this ship before it goes away, so they scrambling to get it. Plus... 0.10 with Dead Eye, makes this ship even more powerful.

Forgot to mention how this shit yeets your AA, making you even more vulnerable to Carriers...

You can do the same with an Azuma, built on range and shot HE at all ships your guns are pointing at. Best targets: BB going backwards and when they are more than the 22.1km away you take the spotter plane and extent to 26.6km. With the improved engine module and the faster rudder shift you can dogde lots of shells that are coming from more than 20km away. I think it is OK in general to have such ships in the game but WG should redo their matchmaker to prevent things like having 3 Thunderer and HE spamming cruisers on the match or Team Green has no ships with radar and Team Red got 3 radar crusiers and a DD with radar.

Hey potato quality, I am wondering what you think the best pushing battleship is in the game right now. So when the thunderers die down, and for ranked, because I still think pushing in battleships is better than damage farming for ranked.

PQ: Go play Secondary Kurfurst. Also PQ: "If You're against the meta and push, You're an idiot".

Potato Quality: I used the Thunderer to destroy the Thunderer...

And this is all BEFORE the thunderer buff lmao

-15k to 10k Dmg -Every well-aimed salvo comes with at least 2 fires (or RNGesus blesses you) -That shit happens every 22s -Ridiculous concealment -Tokio-Drift Rudder-shift (actually rhymes) -I don't really count its bad armor as a real weakness since everybody stays in the back of the map using its rudder-shift and being an annoying pain in the ass to hit. -Good enough AA to scare away CVs That is my point of view. In my opinion, it is either nerf the fire chance, the HE Alpha or its ROF. I don't need to be struck by a 20k Salve and burn 2x (at least) every 22s. Although with its reload you would have to nerf the HE really hard. And even it's AP would still be a problem for most of the ships facing it.

I have a theory. Instead of nerfing ships to make them balanced, they're buffing ships. That way, once they've done all their changes, each and every vessel will have one specific ship that people dread fighting. Think of it like dog training. So instead of providing positive reinforcement, they're providing negative reinforcement. Technically is still considered balancing, if every ship type is weak to every ship type. It happened to dd's, when the carrier rework happened. It happened to bb's when they introduced the rapid fire he spam cruisers. Its now happening to bb's and cruisers with the incremental bb changes, bit by bit. I mean, it's a terrible way to run a game, and is almost guaranteed to make long time players abandon the game, but hey it is 'technically' balanced, right? If everything has something it can't possibly hope to fight in any way. Sadly, I think this game is already on its way to just being another mmo cash cow, with no real content improvement or development :( I hope I'm wrong about that

I have dev-struck full HP broadside Minotaurs with HE in the Thunderer. Maybe you could do that with any BB... But that seems like an issue to me.

@potato_quality what do you think about the nerf on the Thunderer? 24.3km ------> 23km fire range....

I was starting to think I was losing my mind. Thank you so much for this. Another one of those problems that I thought I was the only one who could see a problem with this. If one ship or two ships can change the meta, the ship is overpowered. End of story. A group of players in a game should not have to change their entire playstyle because of one ship.

got it when it 1st came out was a lota fun.not played for a while went to AW.will come back at some point.

i kinda love the HE in the King george, crappy range, but good fires.. its that wrong?

Jean Bart, Burgorgne is the same. Even worse with their reload booster. With thunder, you have a chance to go invisible. But against JB,B, it will set you on fire before you go invisible.

Nerf it ? NO !!! Improve her. Give it spotting plane and 16 km torpedoes.

Thunderer needs a nerf dispersion: from 251m to 310m. No premium BB is supposed to have better dipersion than non-premium BBs (And specially a paper BB)

I agree Thunderer is just dumb and broken. I've only been playing the game for a little over a year, and I had enough coal to buy the Thunderer the end of November... my 3rd game in it I got 318k damage (215k of it was AP, 223k of it was to just two ships) and I play only co-op: 45 battles in randoms, 2244 battles in co-op across all ships. My highest tech tree ships are Tier VII in 4 lines, VIII in 1, so I wouldn't exactly call myself a high level player, but I am not a complete potato either. It's difficult to get high damage games most of the time in co-op because 1: There's only 9 ships per team and 2: bots yolo 95% of the time, so games are usually over really quick. That 318k game it was down to me, a Kremlin bot and a CV bot, because my two human teammates died in the first 5 minutes. I was faced off against two full heath BB's, a GK and a Yamato, which I took down doing a total of 223k between the two at a distance of around 6-7km. The Kremlin bot on my team was on the other side of the map hunting down the enemy CV and the CV bot on my team was too busy losing all its planes to AA, so neither of them were any help to me there. I was only using my two front turrets the whole time against the Yammy and GK because I was bow into the GK and 25° angled to the Yammy. The Yammy was pretty easy because I just citadel'd it repeatedly through the cheek. The GK took longer because at the distance I was to it I couldn't citadel it through its turtleback, even though it was full on broadside to me. I took 110k damage that game but had 1/3 of my health and 1 heal remaining when it ended, the 80 AP shells fired at me only did a total of 34k damage because bots aim for your waterline belt at the center of your ship, so I bounced the majority of the shells the GK and Yamato fired at me. 44k of the damage I took was from HE shells and 32k from fires. So the Thunderer I have had for about two months now but I have only 16 games in it, because it's not a lot of fun to play it.

Don't worry the game changes so many times, it bound to fit in at some point.

Is Thunderer just unnerfed Conqueror without drydock?

A good change would be to give the superstructure it's own hp separately from the hull's hp this way spamming superstructure or fires won't continuously take the whole ship's hp. This would be a change in the right direction. Once superstructure is destroyed it won't provide anymore dmg so that the hull armor actually matters.

At this point as someone who has Thunderer and (almost) all the other tier 10BBs. I just want them to remove Thunderer from the game. Refund the coal if they must but I don’t even care so long as that THING is gone.

Ok I guess I will go buy it... Just so my luck will kick in and they will nerf it.. LMAO

As someone who plays the Thunderer with almost strictly AP, yes, it is still QUITE strong without its bullshit HE. But I play my Thunderer like an idiot and don’t sit in the back

Love your vids PQ. More DD play please

Skill greater than op boat. Balance the skill gap first, then worry about the boats.

Fun fact: Of all BBs tier 8 - 10 I play worst in Thunderer and Ohio and best in Tirpitz B and Roma. I do it wrong somehow.

My main is yamato, my hate is thunderer, my target is her, her target is me trading hey shooting thundererwith yammy is quite satisfying with that big pen damage

He is overpowered and always has been. And that not just on this ship. Though it looks like this ship is even more overpowered.

I'm glad you voiced your thoughts.. its such a shame the direction WG has gone. I really like the game but find myself sticking to lower tiers because of this bullshit. I have had a few games with a up to 4 thunderers on the enemy team and my tank bb build seems like a pile of shit with a thunderer camping in the area....

New take as it's one of the most frustrating things in the game; Don't nerf thunderers dispersion, buff every other ships dispersion.

With gk I start burn before I have it on full speed and feels bad when most ships out range it

The worst thing is, if it does push in it can absolutely erase ships close range with that AP

Everything you said about the Thunderer is true. On the plus side, at least they're very rare in tier X battles. xD

removed ship, people rushed to get it and with dead eye this ship has gotten even stronger for literally no reason.

Ahh World of Warships, the only game where balance is removing something from sale rather than removing it all together

The only thing you can do to avoid these toxic ships right now is to blacklist the player playing it. I do this with CV-players and I encounter less and less of CVs, so it works to some degree ...

And you forget about module destruction with that HE - after 2 salvo of Thunderer or Cq you lose 80% of your AA, so even if you survive you are freebe for CV

I agree with you potato and i would like to add something more to the ban pile: the mods you are using! Sure you can say that everyone can use them, but I think they give an advantage to the user vs the people that dont use them.

Laughs in illnois………

Not to mention that it destroys all your AA in just a couple of salvos

I Agree .. the thing is .. with "dead eye" it will be mutch worst.. until the DD Players realize how to troll them :D. But for me my most hatet ship in this game ..is Stalingrad.. Railguns .. 5 Minute Radar and AA from Hell ..