TILED FLOOR FAILURE 

You can see how I get lippage free tile on link at 8:34..ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-oVO_JUeED0w.html *IF THIS WAS HELPFUL PLEASE CONTRIBUTE TO ME PATREON OR PAYPAL..THANK YOU !* www.patreon.com/starrtile for Patreon or StarrTile@yahoo.com for PayPal

Recently did my own kitchen and dining room, it's not perfect but I'm ok with it as it was done by myself and I'm no professional.. I picked a much darker grout to blend with the tiles better and make it look more like a wood floor with no gaps

Personally, I cant wait for these plank tiles to go out of fashion. The longer they are, the more problems I get. Recently had a job come up, 800mmx250mm, 70 metres. I put 2 random tiles together face to face and they rocked like a see-saw! Dont care how good you are and im pretty good, there is no way you are going to get tiles that bad to look good, lash clips or not.

I've used these tiles. They can make any decent installer question their abilities. Twist, warp, cup, sizing, you name it, these tiles have it.

I blame the 'know it all' owner. They think its easy, thus, it should be cheap, fast and perfect. Anyone can do it even them, but they don't have the time so they hired out. They don't want to pay for any extras either, like, leveling systems, leveling floors, pulling baseboards and haul away. Customers routinely ask, "how much do you charge a sqft?" Expecting it to be $1.50 sqft. They buy the cheapest tile, thinset, grout, and expect the installer to perform magic. It's like giving Leonardo da Vinci crayons and expecting him to remake the mona lisa.

I did my own 6 x 8 bathroom following your advice. It turned out really good. My only issue was that I took too much time and my thunder dried the first time. Minor issue. But I started at the high point and worked out following the tile. It’s only a small bathroom but I’m proud I did it. However, I would never try to pass myself off as a tiler in any way. You have to have major skills to pull off an 800 Snr foot job like that. A small bathroom stresses me out and took me 3 days. Thanks for the videos

FYI You can grind down concrete. They make a grinder wheel designed for this. As a 20 year flooring veteran, I assure you it is possible to grind down small humps in concrete. Use masks and a vacuum!!! 👍

that type of plank tile is commonly warped. it requiers wedge spacers that slide under two tiles and the wedge on top holds the tile level untill the thin set mortor dries... then you break away the spacer and grout the floor...

Luckily I was taught by a tile guru like yourself and plank is honestly my favorite tile to install I love the challenge and I always do a random staggered. Less waste and can set up your cuts how you want

While I generally agree with you- I disagree with starting at high points and using thinset to level out your tile. You need to use a large tooth trowel for floors and back butter for sure but if you grind high spots and use a leveling spacer the problem disappears! Seems like some of what you are critiquing is overkill. Some of it is spot on- the tile guy that did that job wasn’t great. The only clients we want to work with have no problem paying for a leveling system (Progress is great) and epoxy or single component grout and don’t mind us taking a little more time leveling everything so we don’t have issues like lippage or efflorescence in the grout. And don’t look past the material being junk! Most of the large format tile that is so popular these days is far from being truly flat! That’s why we will never again do a job without some sort of a leveling system to ensure that we can make everything as flat as possible. It costs more but is well worth it for the result you achieve. We “stop sign” every toilet. Perfect circle cuts are beautiful and all but let’s be real here.... overkill. I applaud what you’re doing for consumers that don’t understand what good tile work is! Thanks for your videos.

I have to deal with warped tiles almost every day. If you want to make money at it then 1/2 notch, back butter and leveling clips. You can prep for days but if the tiles are warped it won't do much good. JS

From a professional point of view I see your point and thank you for your detailed input for perfection or as close as humanly possible...especially if you're paying for someone to do this...but from a DIY point of view...that looks pretty damn good...I did the tile in my own home...unfortunately not everything is as perfect as what you or some other professional might have done...but I'm pretty proud I did it myself...but I'll make sure to remember your tips for the next go around 😉

I have been installing tile for 26 years. I grind down high spots on EVERY JOB. If this guy doesn't know that, don't listen to a word he says. You can buy the concrete grinding wheel at every Lowe's and Home Depot and attach it to your 4 inch angle grinder or 7 inch grinder. They even make an attachment that you can hook up your shop vac to and eliminate the dust. Sometimes it's easier to grind down the peaks than to fill the valleys in your floor. Depends on your floor. Any good installer knows this

Most of the lippage is due to tiles being bent , you can clearly see that . And create high point to then have to put loads of thinset its absolute bad idea, level it first and then tile.

There are also design issues. Whats the point to look a tile like wood, but then lay them like perfect pattern? Then use white grout? Oh... Give me a break!

I hate setting that cheap made tile, it chips so easy and warped only way to pass your bucket test to set this tile wet in mud the old school way, and never forget it's so damn easy to go behind someone else work and reticule them.

I too cut my tile around the flange using a circular template. Because I knew that for the next 10+ years, I would be sitting on that thing having nothing better to think about than.... ..."The floor under you was badly cut. The floor under you was badly cut"

No excuses for the installer. But that tile is notorious for having manufacturing defects. I've had to send back pallets worth of product to the manufacturer because even if the floor is perfectly flat the tile was not. Highly reccomend to lay out several tiles from different boxes just to make sure the tiles are good.

My husband and I just had our downstairs tiled and while it’s not perfect it looks a million times better then the dirty carpet, worn out wood and out of date tile in the kitchen that we had before.

My tiler ALWAYS takes as much time as required to (a) PLAN the job (b) check all levels (c) plan the layout of the tiles (d) RE-PLAN the job when he's worked out all the potential problems; (e) take as much time as necessary to prep the floor, SL cement, primer, whatever's required; (f) mark out the tile layout, re-draw it as required; and (g) only then, start laying the tiles. Preparation is KING. He only uses a wet cutter on non-absorbent tiles, and wipes them mostly dry; Angle grinder on big absorbent tiles; and a good quality std cutter on the rest. I am NOT allowed to do the prep, cos he wants to make sure that it is done correctly. He has been a great guy to work with for many years, hardly ever any callbacks. PS: That tile layout round the fireplace is just HORRIBLE!

It is just cheap tile probably Chinese also tile settler was probably a beginner. Floor should had been prep prior to installation and that’s where the problem lays some times home owner just don’t want to pay extra to have the floor prep

These tiles are well know for inperfections. They always give tilers a hell of a time. I won't recommended them at all. They sometimes have a bow in the middle and the ends sometimes dip.

ive been a flooring guy since aug of 96..i surely wish I had the opportunity to watch vids back then... almost everything had to be learned by trial and error or a fellow installer giving helpful tips..i appreciate your vids and am glad there are folks like yourself that share... srry I do not have any content online though I take pictures of every job I do before, during and after..we as installers need to hold manufactures to a high standard and refuse to install inferior products...I hate installing plank tile because of all variations in it from bows to bent corners and even warped from side to side..which all creates a nightmare for perfectionists such as yourself..also on a side note...I recommend dark grout always on a floor since its a dirt trap and always turns dark in time.. to me the tile should be the focus and not the grout,, the thinner the better in my eyes..that plank tile should have been grouted with a brown grout..your eyes should gravitate to the tile not the hideous light grout that shows every single imperfection..knowledge is power so thanks again and keep up the good work..

Don’t tile a floor that isn’t flat. You as a tiler should flatten your background surface first either with latex or screed. Don’t ever back butter your tiles with blobs. If you have any air gaps under your tiles they will crack very easily.

Feel so bad for the customer I’d be so disappointed ☹️. The guy just rushed it with no care unprofessional. Thanks for highlighting all these errors so we can learn from his mistakes, hope he see’s it , he should not be tiling . Sue him .

I had the same issue with wood effect plank tiles (30x120cm) which were bowed in the middle... it's unfortunate as the tile shop never tell you this...it was pointed out to me by my tiler but he did a great job never the less.

I would call it a decent job not a failure. Now the uneven tiles, I see that on many, many commercial places. Some areas I agree may be horrible but not a failure. 6.5 out of 10

The critique videos are my favorite type of videos. I have learned so much from seeing others mistakes!!!

Didn't they have leveling systems back then. I'm about to tile my whole house with this same size tile. Thank you for posting this. I'll be using a tile leveling system.

Where is the failure? Yes it's a crappy job but failure?

I am a tile setter and there were many points you made about the tile job, and yes it was piss poor with lots of flaws and things not done right. the installer should have taken a little bit more time installing. However you mentioned the fireplace and how you would have raised the hearth instead of making it flush... that is purely a preference... either way would look good. The other thing you pointed out was imperfection in tile along with crowning. most tile says on the box a recommended spec for this issue. your floor could be completely flat but the tile is not. make a little bit bigger grout joint for this issue. Also I have run in to tile so crowned that even a third stagger would have sucked, so I spoke to the home owner and we decided to do a little under a 1/4 stagger and the job came out just fine. Knowledge is key.

I've dealt with plank tile before. Sometimes you have to send tiles back because of manufacturers defects. Didn't matter where it came from.

easy to point out flaws..but never install flooring in a pattern if not noted in contract..flooring at all cost is installed naturally mixed.

the tiler prob had help ,lesser skilled and rushing to get it done ,the prob with these plank tiles is the stagger ,its impossible at times to avoid lippage with a bow in the tile and uneven floor ,you say high point but a floor could have several high point s ,these tiles are really difficult to get perfect ,it is sloppy looking job in places but unless floor is absolutely perfect and tile s are really good quality lippage is inevitable

Very interesting video you have here. We just had our home built by a big name builder here using similar tiles and I had them come out to fix a few tiles when we moved in. I believe some of the tiles were low and they were really noticeable. Well, now our one year warranty is almost up and more I look at our floor, the more messed up it seems to be. I have come to the conclusion that it was rushed and nothing was leveled. Every tile placed by hand so some are either high or low. Not to mention we have 1/4" spacing between the tiles so that sort of allows the installer to not be as careful as if it was a thinner gap. Ours is not as bad as this, but it's not a professional tile job in my opinion.

More of material defect than installer skills. You are ridiculous picking this floor apart, and then you're going to put a floor on top? Insane

Looks like a difficult area to tile.. If I did this job with no experience at all, I would be ok with this. Thanks for the video, I'm learning this stuff.

Clear high gloss epoxy resin whole floor ...would fix lippage and save her a fortune..

Not everyone can lay tile. However the ones that can realize "it's the little things that matter and make a job damn near perfect".

I can feel the direction this "installer" is going with this video. Being an installer of 15 years myself I would never step on any other Installers toes like this. There are countless variables that can play into this particular job. I cant say that this tile job was overly well done but I will also say that that tile looks incredibly cheap do to is wavey overall appearance. Another issue that may have happened here is the customer may have been warned and aware of why there maybe imperfection but do to financial reasons the installer was told to over look them. I have had to many cheap customers play a game similar to this to avoid or lessen a final bill. So to anyone watching this installer or consumer dont encourage this kinda of back stabbing behavior people like this will talk you of the ledge just to make themselves feel better or make themselves money.

I used to paint empty apartments, tile guys would work too, they would say if u push compound or paint bucket and it slides without stopping then the tile job was done good

Consumers should keep in mind that there is cheap tile that can not be laid 💯 perfectly seems to be more common in the wood look tile overall good info

if she really liked the design of the tiles, a clear epoxy top coat would have probably been the cheapest way to sort that out...

Lose the music while you’re talking all I hear is screeching.

My assumption is, this was a budget tile installer, and catered to customers that wanted a budget price. The customer got what she paid for. If she had hired a reputable competitive tile contractor, she likely would not be dealing with these issues now. But, there will be those ones out there that are looking for a steal, I mean deal. If she cannot afford to pay market rate price for a quality install, then she is purchasing a new floor prematurely.

I’m a journeyman plumber by trade, this is what it would look like if I installed it...

As a person who does this type of work also ,this is just a prime example of somebody rushing and having no respect for the customer and not giving a damn

Always easy to pick fault in peoples work.

Just had a customer withhold payment for a tiled laundry room where she selected a very heavy large format ungauged slate. The difference between the thinnest Edge and the thickest edge of these tiles was easily over 1/4 of an inch. Even after sorting and exchanging extremely thin or thick tiles, there was still significant lippage. We explained this to her in detail before we started. Some people really like that look. When we finished, This woman did not. The bad part is we fronted all the materials including the Slate. Never again.

Sometimes people give the job to the guy who bids the lowest. Then they are shocked that they got what they paid for. Dont know thats the case here, but if a guys doing work like this its nothing new to him or his crew. Ya didnt check him out, get a reference or two, see some of his work? Probably not and just went with the cheapest guy.

One of the biggest issues with the large format plank tile Is that it's warped. I totally agree about the slab being flat and level, but I have seen it too many times as to where the tile itself is warped and no matter what you do to the slab it is not gonna correct the installation. Take several of the large format plank tile and laid them back-to-back and see what you have before the installation

I did a wood tile floor last month and the day I came to grout I heard this noise from in the house 😓 When I walked in the home owner & friend we're sliding my buckets across the floor. He said. Look! Your floor is so flat the bucket doesn't catch no matter which way you slide it 😄 Never had that before

I’m a GC in southern CA and over the years have gotten into the habit Of performing all our tile and stone work in house . Why? Quality control.. Grind. The. Floor. Period. Get your ass on your knees with a 6 foot straight edge and crawl around and find your high spots .. mark em with a crayon and grind em out. When your done .. crawl it again and mark your lows and skim em . I like Henry’s featheredge with acrylic additive. Then give the whole floor a scrape and a wet mop.. Keep your trowel notch big and still back butter with an LFT fullset.. Most importantly… Do not let your clients get sucked in by the cheap Chinese made plank tile. I’ve had that shit come out of the box with a 16th inch plus crown. If you’re laying a running bond pattern I don’t care if you’re the best tile man in the world you’re not gonna get rid of the lips..

Why would you want 800 sqft of tile. Very lengthy install plus the nightmare 1 getting broken. Yikes.

Good info. I been in the flooring business for 36 yrs. With planks like these , i use clips now in addition to grinding and leveling the floor. They are pricey tho and most people dont want to pay. Also That stair like stagger is not how i would ever install this tile

I’m sure everybody want to know how much the customer was willing to pay out for perfect job

I work in France, they liquid screed EVERYTHING. I lay wood flooring as opposed to tiles but my god it is SOOOOO PERFECTLY FLAT! 3MM COMB WITH ADHESIVE, ROLL DOWN AND WALK AWAY! NO IDEA IF

I'm a contractor and I do tile and many other things it's people like that that give us bad names I've been doing this for 20 some years and I personally could never leave a job in that kind of shape I just don't understand it I've cost myself money to stay and redo something because even though the customer thought it look good I knew it wasn't right I just can't leave a job that I don't feel I did a hundred percent my best and it is done to the best of my ability but great video new to the channel I subscribed to can't wait to see more!

The problem really is that the tiles are B grade or lower and not A grade tiles. Apart from levels

Do you have any idea what the acceptable lippage is on floor tile per The Tile Council of North America? It's 3/8 of an inch. I'm not saying this is a great tile job or even a good one but I'll bet this person went with the least expensive installer they could find instead of paying a professional a wage they deserve for the knowledge they covet. A good installer is the exception not the rule. I set tile for twenty five years and I know from experience a concrete slab is rarely flat much less level. I don't think starting from the high point and having an inch of mortar at the low side makes any sense at all. There are some great systems out there for achieving a flat installation and eliminating all lippage. Show them in your next video if you want to be of service to the masses. I think the fault can be found for this particular installation with the person who decided price wins out over experience and quality.

Those tiles also look terrible to work with. @ 8:22 you can see the tiles are even on the left side, but on the right side the one tile sticks past about 3/16 of an inch.

One major problem I run into is the huge cost a customer has to pay for proper floor prep.

I had similar issues with my floor and thought all was lost until I used a high gloss sealer...between that and some area rugs your floor will be easier on the eyes. Nothing will make up for the bad cuts but the high gloss has a way of diverting your eyes away from all of the imperfections. I suggest try a little corner with the high gloss sealer to see if it helps otherwise you might as well head straight for the bank.

Ive bought tiles similar to these before and they had to many defects in them,some of the edges were thicker on one corner than the other.

Not sure what part of the country this is in... but here in north west Texas, the labor rates that are paid for tile installation have been slashed due to the south of the border crews coming in and installing for 1.50 - 2.00 per sq. foot. Quality tile setters have a hard time getting work because we wont set tile for such low prices, and we wont do the kind of work seen in this video. Advice to all the viewers looking at this YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR.. if you pay sub standard labor rates, you will get sub standard work... take the time to check references of the tile layers you hire.. good installers are proud of their work and usually keep a record of it. Also... be prepared to wait for quality tile crews... if a tile installer is not working... there is usually a good reason for it. If you are purchasing labor and materials from your local flooring shop, make sure it has reputable tile installers, and make sure that they offer a labor warranty with the work done.

Good information, I recommend using self leveling so you don’t use so much thin set mortar

On a floor like this, with this type of tile, you're in for some major work to make a nice job of it. Most important step is surface prep. Use a builder's laser to find high/low spots, use a diamond cup wheel to remove high spots first, then fill any low spots with a good self leveler and primer. Most plank tiles will be bowed so it is still a good idea to use tile leveling clips. Lastly I would recommend a minimum trowel size of 3/8"×1/4" , and always back butter your tile. 15 years of experience, and I still want to pull my hair out sometimes.

yeah, lets have perfection in a dump

You can easily find the high point or low point using a compulevel. Or even a laser level by taking multiple readings in every room then working out the reduced levels.

What about the lightning bolt tile offset? Shouldn’t these tiles appear more randomly spaced?

Sure you can “sand down” concrete. It’s called scarification, you go rent a machine and get rid of the humps. Or you flatten the rest of the floor to it. Just building up with thinset is not a good solution IMO - the floor spec for large format tile is FLAT.

I get you... it’s a bad job ... and the Tile looks like $1.99 big box store crap Tile anyways. I tell everyone if you’re not willing to spend money on a true rectified Tile then find a Tile with a rolled lip edge.

Those long plank style tiles have some problems. Ive had to take a bunch of those back, they warp and wont lay flat.

Lmao at the end of the video I can't wait to see all the complaints she has about the floating floor separating and buckling over those tiles that have such an apparent horrible lippage

Stuff called self leveler... pretty useful stuff for any floor layer.

I always prep my floors first with straight edges and patch, way easier to install when you make your floor flat...i will say tho, their pumping out those wood look ceramic and porcelain tiles so cheaply alot of them are just shit. You can put them face to face and spin them like a top.

Oh wow! ....i watched the whole video ...now that is a hack job! I hate when i get called to try to fix something like this ...it's hard to tell the homeowner their just screwed

I think a big issue is that it is not the best idea to lay small tile on an 800 sq ft floor area. Using big floor tile would create less error. It can be quite difficult to not make any mistakes with that tile size and the floor size. i believe the common sense approach is large tile on a large floor area.

Really good Home improvement contractors, especially tile installers deserve ALL the money they charge for a job well done. I’m tiling my den and lucky for me the floor is perfectly level. With that being said, I can tell you it is very very hard work.

I definitely wouldn't have paid someone to come back and redoit, I guess the customers got alot of money. It really doesn't look that bad, however I bet the homeowner didn't pay the final bill and so the contractor never came back to finish give the finishing touches. Most of the floor is decent minus some lippage, which those tiles and the dipped floor could've been done not the whole damn floor

I've done painting and remodeling for 16 years and worked with a very high end tiler friend when work is slow and this is not bad compared to jobs I've seen, looks like mostly tile defects. The one mistake I think they made was they didn't use self leveling concrete before laying the tile. When I laid tile we used these very long straight edges, like 12ft long and laid them on the floor and marked out low and high spots then poured self leveling concrete, or grinded off high spots. I think you are being nit picky on the cuts and supposed high spots though, this isn't that bad overall.

Don’t worry 😉,, when you put furniture everywhere and a big nice shag carpet,, you’ll see nothing!!! I give it a 6/10

I just finished doing a porcelain plank floor, 6”x36” tiles. I’d say to any homeowner, if the tile installer isn’t using leveling clips and isn’t carefully setting the tile, one at a time, looking at each one that goes down carefully, stop the job. Almost anyone can do a decent job on everyday 6”x6” tile. The planks require much more skill, patience and time. They are never flat. They have to be made flat with clips and skill. The layout has to be right. If you see the installer just whipping through the job, or not using plenty of clips, it will look like what’s on this video.

Starr tile should point out this planking tile is a nightmoare install. I do it all the time. No way he does this in 4 days...If he did it would be the same job. Because it crowns so bad you get lippage on the ends or the middle. Yes bad cuts around the fireplace and a couple other issues but dude dont crap on installers because of bad products.

That's why I always recommend Raimondi TLS & just a little extra thin set when you need it.

You know I just finished installing large tiles (48"x24") on the walls for three large bathrooms. I had to remove a tile and noticed that the coverage was perfect but the adhesive came clean of the tile with nothing stuck on any part of the tile. Obviously I had to put some force with a chisel to remove the tile but once it lost the grip the whole tile just came of in large chunks. My first impression was that this is not good. After doing ALL THE TILES I realise something was wrong. This is very depressing to say the least. While doing some research I figured out the problem. The guy I was working with was responsible for backbuttering the tiles before he brought them over to me for setting. He would clean the back side of the tile with a wet sponge and apply the backbuttering adhesive over a wet surface. This would create a barrier between the tile and the adhesive. It's the first time I do tiling, it's for my house. I had seen almost all good tiling videos on youtube (all of yours obviously) and read so much material to make sure I know what I'm doing before I start. I have not come across one video that talks about this serious and hazardous mistake that someone can fall victim to. Please Bob, make a video on this and make people aware that the surface of the tile must be FULLY DRY when backbuttering!

mine did, also. what made it worse was that there was only 105 SF-- the grout lines varied from 1/8" to 1/3 to 1/4" sometimes even on adjacent lines.

How much per sq ft did the client pay? For all we know they went super cheap on the labor........ Most people don't want to pay what it costs to lay a tile floor properly.

imagine opening youtube and seeing a 20 minute video of someone ripping the tile job you probably spent way too long on :D

This guy doesn't know what is he talking about... sanding down concrete???? Or using a wet saw to cut around that toilet flange?? You grind down all the highest areas and use self level on the low spots....and use a 4" grinder for the toilet flange cut...the installation is really crappy no doubt about that

Hey brother... Just a handy tip.. you can take out the single tile and replace it. Use a grinder on the grout lines, smash er out. And yes that's exactly what you do if you can't get it low enough. You use the grinder on the back of the tile, and on the floor. I have had to do this. Just make sure there are absolutely zero hollow spots. Because the integrity of the tile is now different.

You say the same thing over n over. Over n over. Did I tell you how you say things over n over

Poor lady. Full disclosure, I did a similar floor on a rental I have. 36 x 6 wood look porcelain. ~1100 sq. ft. I used a Ditra membrane, RLS leveling clips, 1/3 stagger, and a 1/2" square notch trowel. I back-buttered everything so there was a good amount of thinset to embed in, but still, I'm not gonna lie it keeps me up some nights worrying about whether or not i messed something up. I would hate to replace that floor haha

Looks like commercial jobs at McDonalds. :/

Need darker grout and add grout to minimize lipage over all it’s hard to see the defects when you are using a round bottle to show contrast

woww people whats with the dislikes??...ive done flooring my whole life and this man knows his shittt!! show some respect for a installer who cares and takes pride in his work , theres not many left anymore......keep it up brotha 👍

From the comments, I'm confident the situation is as follows. The guy really didn't do an awful job, nor a great job. This tile is the worst shit to put on a concrete floor, especially an older concrete floor. I did it recently, very similarly, and it was a nightmare. Flip story, I wasnt happy with it, but the customer was. However, I said from the beginning, this is the worst tile for this application. Some houses were never meant for this kind of tile, without some serious work.

I am a painter/finishing man so I am the very last person in the house before it is deemed complete. Two things I see here. While I agree with you, it sure looks like theres a lot of tiles there with bevelled ends (defects). Not the installers fault, but a real good tile setter can even make that work if he is real good at his trade. Which obviously this guy was not. The other thing that had me throwing my phone down was the baseboards and trim work. That is what would effect me, and never once in 18 years have I ever seen the baseboards in that condition with the floors and carpeting installed. Do you realize what needs to be done there to clean that up to something acceptable? It is well beyond a little touch up with a brush. If that was stained instead of painted you would be ripping it all out. Even in its painted application It would cost YOU thousands above and beyond our signed contract if the entire house is like that.

Just so everyone is aware the NTCA standards are any tile over 15” needs to set with a medium bed mortar not a thinset. It helps allow for uneven floors and it will help level your floor out up to 3” and will help any lippage

She needs new baseboard too, from what I can tell.