I like how Tim brings up a point about film actors being assholes and then Howie acts like an asshole to that girl for just bringing something up which he didn't think was relevant.
There’s definitely a Peter Pannish man child “I don’t wanna grow up” aspect to a lot of those 80s Bill Murray roles too. Especially the ones where he leads some group of Lost Boys, like Stripes. I thought it was an interesting elaboration and definitely related to the Murray commentary.
Love Tim but...Ive seen him bully a lot of people. He did a who segment moking joe rogan podcast. Did another one telling him to shut the fuck up. Makes fun of people he doesnt like all the time. He just called bill murray an asshole. We wasnt, he was an everyman, or a underdog. I dont think he sees that he is an arrogant asshole himself.
@@BigEvan96 we are talking about a form of media entertainment which continues to exist.. inexorably.. i can still watch an episode (present tense) from season 1 and be entertained.. as can most with half a sense of humor
Can’t remember who said it but someone out there brought up a point that Bill Murray movies usually had him acting like a jerk, getting his comeuppance, and changing his ways while Chevy Chase movies he didn’t have arcs like that.
Chevy Chase thought being an asshole was fine yet Chevy Chase was always a leftist. I'm not sure why asshole equaled right wing in this conversation because Bill Murry is probably registered Dem also. I' don't know. I'm just taking a guess.
Chevy Chase is a Saint and a willingness to engage in banter does not make one a jerk. People overreacted when Kanye, Denzel or whoever couldn’t banter off camera on that TV show that Harmon made. But who ever it was, they never made Fletch so who cares? A comedian shouldn’t be penalized for not conforming to the guidelines of a character arc or a three act structure archetype. Or maybe we should chastise Glenn Gould for playing the piano “too quickly”. Hard to say… but I do know that Howie Mandel is the greatest comedian of this generation and perhaps any generation.
god how long are you guys gonna run with this.. I know you don't actually give a shit what actually happened but here it is: Tim publicly said he didn't like the show. Adult Swim canceled the show because advertisers didn't want their stuff near it. the show was canceled. Sam Hyde blamed Tim and got all his little lame followers to go after him. Adult Swim has canceled *multiple* Heidecker projects. he doesn't have anywhere near the power to dictate what they do or don't cancel. let it go and stop bitching. MDE was nowhere near as funny as you guys think it was, you just salivated because it pushed into some racist territory. .
I think I know what he means, but I'm not sure Bill Murray movies are the best analogy. Scrooged and Groundhog Day are two of the absolute best examples of depicting main characters who are complete assholes that suffer greatly specifically because they're assholes, and only finally achieve happiness after they slowly and painfully learn how to be truly selfless.
@@Anton-wk8lv well he goes from arrogant, lazy, out of shape, jobless bum with no respect for anyone to a war hero and gets a hot chick. All without becoming a better person. That’s probably the best way I could sum it up
Those are a couple movies of his that lasted. At the top of his career though he was churning out movies where he was like an arrogant witty guy putting down everything around him constantly. Hell, that’s the character in Scrooged and Groundhog Day too, it’s just those movies kind of require him to learn a lesson in them and in his lesser movies he just kind of cruises through
I find Tim and Eric extremely hilarious but there is another aspect to their art which I really appreciate which is this really surreal world that exists in their comedy that is super unsettling, almost bordering on like a horror nightmare but then somehow has an endearing quality to it.
I’ve always thought about the venn diagram of comedy and horror and how certain elements of both might possibly tickle us in the same region of the brain. Maybe it’s that fear and laughter both relate to a panic response because they often relate to us feeling uncomfortable or misdirected, the responses to both feel like they’re part of the same system. This is probably what they unknowingly tap into in us that creates such a tug of war between what’s scary and what’s funny, or a particular blend of the two.
On cinema is the most amazing show I’ve ever seen. It’s hilarious the universe he created is amazing. It’s nothing short of amazing how he was able to look at himself and construct basically the biggest idiot he could is genius Tim Heidecker is a complete and utter genius and if you don’t believe it, it’s because you haven’t seen it.
He says himself that he's struggling to come up with the right terminology because he hasn't considered it deeply enough, I think I understood his point of view though. If you look at a lot of the old comedy movies, it's not even that they aren't PC- some are actively homophobic, transphobic and racist at points. Now that it isn't as popular and normalised to treat other people that way anymore, you can see a clear shift within media reflecting that change. I don't think what he meant was that old comedy movies had a political agenda or were considering themselves right-wing. The point I think Tim was getting at is simply that as we have progressed socially so has our media, and a lot of our old media reflects attitudes and opinions of the time which would be considered right-wing today.
"The lovable asshole" was not a trope because the right wing establishment wanted to brainwash people into being assholes lol, that's just an inherently interesting character archetype. A character being able to get the audience on their side, despite being objectively not a great person, is just the mark of an engaging and charismatic personality. There's just something inherently compelling about guys who are able to be cool while flagrantly not caring about what other people think. But apparently that's "right wing" now?
He was getting to Police Academy and I think got off track... yes, Police Academy was basically right wing. Being a curmudgeon is a defining trait of Trump fans so it is now right wing as well. Tim’s right wing character is an asshole.
Tim's thought here is very much in line with a lot of woke attitudes about art in general. The idea that art should necessarily be didactic, performing a social function of instructing people how to think and behave, that art should always have some kind of "positive moral" to it. There's an implicit assumption in it that people are too dumb to think for themselves and need to be taught what to think by their betters. This paternalistic kind of thinking is ultimately death to actual free creative expression and artistic greatness. It's like how in the Soviet Union they actively suppressed artists who weren't sufficiently in line with the "correct" sociopolitical ideology, or even just artists perceived as politically ambiguous/apolitical.
Tim never said it was because of the “right wing establishment” lmao. He said that that style of comedy is emboldening right wingers. Big difference, and it’s driven solely by the fact that people enjoy watching it.
Dumb. The movies Tim is referring to were all made by left of center guys and are anti-authoritarian in nature, though not usually explicitly political. Underdogs using their wits to get over on the more powerful.
See that's the thing though...is Bill Murray really an underdog? In ghostbusters, he's always the smartest or coolest guy in the room and always has the best lines. Yes the script tries making the EPA big and domineering (nothing right-wing to see here at all) but the underdog status never feels remotely earned in his character. He behaves with maximum entitlement the whole way through. But anyway I know Ghostbusters is some kind of sacred holy text to aging nerds so this is me pointing this out is probably whistling dixie
Ayn Rand inspired Reaganism was the philosophy of that era, so it came through in every big movie one way or another, especially comedies. The will of individual men, jerks or not, against the state and fate itself, on a mission to get rich and successful, was the theme in almost every comedy. Practically pointing this out to Zemeckis was the reason Crispin Glover wasn't in Back To The Future 2.
Police Academy? The movie is about a bunch of misfits who try to be cops and the movie makes fun of the police institution all the time. The heroes are only jerks to the authority (Captain Harris, Mouser, etc) and in the end they "save the day". Did he see the movies?
Tim Heidecker worked to get a comedian's show cancelled...because he did not like this comedian's edgy style of comedy. Think about it, this guy made it his mission to prevent another comedian from earning money. Tims funny and makes great content but having to resort to Karen mode and "talk to the manager" made me lose all respect for him.
@@Garlicbredqueen he campaigned to get World Peace cancelled from AdultSwim because the guys who made it were right wing. He literally told all his fans to contact Turner and ask that they remove the show
@@ardiberen pretty sure tim did one of his podcasts and suggested viewers to contact adult swim if they wanted something cancelled. He was playing coy but it was obvious what he was alluding to.
Aside from neither of those things being remotely related, the difference is Heidecker sometimes *acts* as a regressive idiot whereas Hyde *is* a regressive idiot.
I'd be on your side if that was ever actually proven. I personally don't find Tim Heidecker particularly funny, but Sam was never able to actually prove that Tim had anything to do with World Peace being cancelled. And besides that point Sam Hyde is an Alt Right grifter who only maintains any sort of relevance by purposely saying and doing things to flame libs and leftists. It's oddly boring and a little sad at this point. Sam lost his show because he's a loud intimidating asshole and the little weak man babies at adult swim couldn't take that kind of energy. I think Sam would find much greater success with a little humility, but unfortunately he's been playing a character and grifting for so long he's actually become the person he originally portrayed as a joke. It's like Alex Jones all over again he's completely lost the plot.
@@Bob-ux3iv Tim was the only person with ANY pull who expressed outrage at the show existing. And he encouraged his audience to do something about it. Those are both facts. And I don't care about your views on any one of the MDE guy's politics. There was nothing wrong with that show. Anybody should be allowed to make any art they want and have it judged on it's own merits. And what Sam and Nick are doing now clearly has much greater appeal than Tim's output so maybe you just find it boring. Which is fine.
@@nachomanrandysauvage8257 Lol, Imagine actually believing this.. it's a completely unhinged distortion of reality. This degree of ignorance is maybe flat-earth-tier.. I don't know, I can't actually drop to that level of understanding, or rather the lack thereof.. It's almost impressive!
Tim has a good point, remember how in Ghostbusters the EPA were the villains? The good guys were the ones printing money with their backstrapped unlicensed nuclear accelerators
Well yeah because the EPA represented 'the man' - it represented the government, it represented the establishment. It represented red-tape and order - rules and regulations that stiffle good work and creativity. Although the Ghostbusters were pseudo-scientists they could be be considered the counter culture, the underdogs wanting to help rid the community of ghosts. Were they indulging in a little fame and seeking some fortune, yes. But they weren't bad people. It's still not a right-wing take. Perhaps many right-wingers might share the sentiments against the EPA but the EPA was more than that. Like I said, they represented the man. Ghostbusters could be seen as very left-leaning by all other accounts. I also think people forget that left leaning people can and will share and have overlap with those on the right. And that overlap on either side doesn't inherhently make either the oppossite.
So which is it; Is Scott his first or last name? So his name is either Scott Carrot Top or Carrot Top Scott. It's strange he'd drop the one normal sounding name for his public persona.
Scott Thompson. You should listen to the Opie and Anthony show/clip where Patrice O’ Neal googles his name in front of him. He did the same thing to Gallagher too. RIP Patrice
Kind of ironic how heidecker is commenting about right wing comedy when his comedy use to go slightly that direction. Firing Sam Hyde who he deemed right wing and saying a person being mean is just a right wing. What a hypocrite.
Sam Hyde donated $5,000 to the legal defense fund of a guy who runs the most well known Neo Nazi website, The Daily Stormer. So in this case, we really are talking about (extreme) right wing asshole comedy.
The idea that assholes being rewarded for being assholes is a great insight, but his flaw is that the right wing has a monopoly on assholes. Tim is a hyper progressive/champagne socialist though so it makes sense. Trump Talkin Nukes IS a great song but then the woke turn around and scream Biden needs to bomb the shit out of Putin. They are legitimately crazy people.
Oh Jesus I have to stop… <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="44">0:44</a> can we have anything anymore that doesn’t reference politics? Like don’t we get that enough. Calling right wing “assholes” as a general statement is kinda low hanging fruit.
@@roundabout468 naw lil homie. I'm not chasing Timmy, Timmy keeps popping up in my world... bunch of my homies were on the Wilmington production crew for east bound (one of the few truly inspired comedies) casting agent (Allison?) is a genius
Who was Tim referring to in Police academy as being the rewarded asshole? If he’s talking about Mahoney then that’s nothing new and quite classic comedy, so much so that cartoons parodied it e.g. Tom and Jerry, Coyote and the roadrunner, woody woodpecker etc…
I think he was just talking about the over the top machismo douche archetype being rewarded in 80s movies. His examples are a bit off though. He does not like Bill Murray for some reason, but Bill seems like he was probably one of the more enlightened comedic actors of the 80s. He did do that Hunter Thompson movie, and Razor's edge.
Wow, unexpected comment section. I think Tim was just making a point about the style of comedy that was common in the 80s, but people really took it personally lol
There's definitely movies in the 80s that he could have pointed out but Police Academy was the opposite of that the assholes always lost in those movies, and they were diverse
Then you havent been to a comment section before. Comedy is victim of the times so those who care about it do take it personally but so does tim and that's fine. It's being a douche about it that makes it annoying. But I actually think this is a personal thing for Tim and is one of the many reasons he took the path he did. I disagree with him but whatev.
@@ryangalinat952 no kidding. And assholes can be funny because they are blunt and tell the truth. "Its funny cause its true", yadda yadda...assholes overlap with comedy more than he thinks.
Revenge of the Nerds is another one that sort of champions legitimately unethical behavior. I think it's still allowed to be funny, but it's important to acknowledge that it's objectionable behavior.
"Peter Pan was an asshole kidnapping kids and was rewarded." Ummm, no he wasn't. He was just showing them an dreamworld. Not unlike Mr. Conductor from Shining Time Station.
He was saving them from the adult world that neglected them in childhood and then expected them to grow up (quite literally feeding them to the wolves/crocodiles of passing time)
People who are extremely left leaning always amaze me saying things like art emboldened certain ideology. I really think that they believe that they are above people and most of the population are just impressionable idiots. And I'm saying being a left leaning person myself.
@@MarleyBM199 lol, it has nothing to do with population density or political beliefs. Human brans are just faulty, we have crappy memory, we're prone to make errors, to believe in various type of ghosts, and susceptible to mass delusions.
@@MiqelDotCom yes all the people in this nation are sheep except for you. Excuse me for questioning you oh enlightened one, you are Neo in the Matrix my friend
Those 80s comedies were all anti-establishment. Funny he brings up Police Academy. That’s a film about regular everyday people entering and changing a system. All of Bill Murray’s movies are this basic conceit. If Tim can’t recognize this it might be because he is part of the establishment now. Every late night host proudly displays their politics, which is fine. That’s their choice. But it’s all uniform at this point.
You really think that was the message of Police Academy? It was a stupid teen comedy with obligatory 80's T&A. The recruits didnt *change* the system. They BECAME the system.
Tim is completely wrong about this. Think back to all those Bill Murray movies he starred in from the 80s and even up until today: they had redemption arcs. He was rewarded by CHANGING. Police Academy was about a bunch of misfits who wouldn't ever normally be allowed to serve as cops but were able to pull together to save the day. Tim's politics have clouded his mind. If he wants an example of a lead character being rewarded for being an asshole or a "bully", look at Larry David in "Curb Your Enthusiasm" (one of the funniest shows ever). Larry doesn't "learn" or "grow". He's just a douche and him saying out loud what others are thinking but are too afraid to say in social situations makes us laugh and love that character. And that character is as Left Wing as they come. But in the end, why even try to attach politics to everything? That's part of what is ruining modern day comedy.
They're flimsy redemption arcs though, most of the characters still exhibit the most of their douchebag behaviours like being lazy, shameless sleazebags even into the sequels of the films that got them.
But there's still redemption arcs. I think it's unfair to judge how serious a redemption arc should be in a comedy. As far as sequels, they're just remaking that redemption arc. That's usually why they suck.@@beowulf1417
@@SecretsOfStandupComedy it's not about being serious it's about providing depth and committing to the concept which those films don't. They are the some of the shallowest examples of the redemption arc trope. Coming to America is a great example from that particular era of comedies of getting it right. That you don't realise this and went out of your way to say they covered the trope speaks volumes to what Tim is getting at, most viewers like yourself don't even realise the inadvertent message you were consuming and thus see nothing wrong with the behaviours it has enabled in some people.
Also these guys are playing lovable jerks most of the time. They are still endearing and the comedy comes from them being dicks when you think they wouldn’t. Think Bad Santa.
Right wing comedy is seen as being insensitive. They're not gonna care if you call them racist natsees because they get called that anyway for even slightly disagreeing with politically correct groupthink. They'll just roll with it and it's endearing. On the other hand, you have left wing comedy, which is to have no comedy at all. Dave Chappelle, Seinfeld, Chris Rock, and many others have given up performing at college campuses because they crowds are too sensitive. So would you rather have Bill Murray movies, or nothing?
He's making a really messy point. Like are frat boys or "comedic" date rapists "right-wing?" Maybe if you really dive into ideologies and try to find some common thread there. With the things Trump supporters say about him and celebrate there's something there, but for every Trump or Gingrich there's a Mike Pence who's more of a meek Christian type.
@@willywonka7812 big tech is pretty left wing and they make up the biggest companies in the world so Idk about that. Maybe it’s more complicated than that.
I always liked Tim, but I’m not sure about the “right wing” comedy comment he made about the 1980’s. What about Revenge of the Nerds, One Crazy Summer, Back to School, Back to the Future, etc. The bully always loses. Even in Police Academy, the underdogs won. I think he needs to take off the woke blinders so he can see reality more clearly.
I think what Tim really means when he says right wing is more that a lot of those comedies were these white dudes who were "finally saying what we're all thinking!!" and in the end they always get the girl and yadda yadda yada
Politics have really messed up Tim’s head. He can’t seem to disconnect from them anymore. These are some ridiculous generalizations, glossing over many things that would completely disprove the points he’s trying to make.
The Peter Pan comparison made zero sense. Secondly, what does Bill Murray or Police Squad (and other old comedies) have anything to do with being "right wing"? Plenty of modern comedies and films reward a-holes constantly.
There's no such thing as "right wing comedy." It's just comedy that normal working class people like, so hipster nerds like Tim have to brand it as "right wing."
@@99nej Upper class hipsters trying to lecture the working class about the status quo is the only time hipster comedy is actually funny. And don't worry. Minorities hate you too.
I love Tim & all of his comedy, but he has no idea what he’s taking about… he does not understand the left vs right, like all lefties in Hollywood, he is saturated in fiction & wishful thinking.
I really enjoy most of Heidecker's output but he always comes across in interviews as rather morose, like the cliche of the comedian who is miserable off stage
@John Gotti if most comedians have gone through the "worst shit" then how come 98% of them are more enjoyable to listen to in these scenarios than Tim is?
I think when you work really hard on comedy its hard to have to go on podcast and pretend somethings funny just to help push along some rich dudes podcast.
Not to mention that half of T&Es comedy is using let's say "neuro atypical" actors for comedic effect. That's much more problematic than Bill Murray being snarky to rich people and government officials. I love everything he's done since Tom Goes to the Mayor but damn does Tim need to take a break from whichever echo-chamber he's been hanging out in.
@@Matt-pc5cd Damn, yeah I didn't even think of that. Them using a bunch of autists for comedy fodder does not age very well through the lens of all this woke shit lol.
I’ve thought a lot about what Tim is touching on. It’s the Karen mantality. The characters in those shows have a sense of entitlement. They treat “lower” people (ie waiters, hosts, mechanics, other service providers) terribly because they feel entitled to do so based on their perceived superiority to them. And they are rewarded for it. Think Kevin’s parents in the Home Alone movies who threaten and punish police, flight attendants, hospitality workers, etc for their own failures and are rewarded for it.
@@Brandon-tk2rw You completely missed the point because the whole film "The Comedy" is a satire, precisely betraying people at their worst, as a kind of metanarrative on characters in films in general. So The Comedy would be a GOOD film to watch, precisely to understand this point.
Times a thousand! It sucks when someone is funnier and younger and edgier than you. They’re all set up to eclipse you on your own station, so you go and get them cancelled. Too self centered to understand. How decrepit in the head do you have to be to have an issue with Bill fucking Murray. Sam is the only entertainer I’ve ever supported behind a paywall, because if I don’t all we will have is this shit.
Right wing? What does that have to do with anything? Is speaking your mind and being offensive suddenly a political thing? Or is it just called edgy or dark humor? That kind of humor has been around way longer than political parties. Im tired of EVERYTHING being politicized. Like, "oh look, a red apple. Those are so right wing!"
I take exception to the idea that Bill Murray's characters are rewarded for being assholes. Scrooged, Ground Hog Day, What About Bob, Rushmore, even as far back as Stripes; his characters might start out as assholes, but redeem themselves at the end of the movie. Chevy Chase movies on the other hand, the Fletch character, and Vacation movies had many sequels based on his characters never changing. You want Clark Griswald to flip out and loose it every movie. Or you want Fletch to try some sneaky disguise and get into some crazy situation.
It's funny to hear Tim talk about 80's comedies, and Billy Murray playing an asshole character, saying that's wrong and 'right wing'. Aren't a some of Tim's characters ass-holes/bullies, like the role he plays in 'On Cinema at the Cinema'? I find him funny, but this comment here doesn't line up.
I think you missed the part where you said they are reqarded for it. On Cinema Tim keeps causing death around him, lose his lovers and his credibility, pretty much the opposite of being rewarded. So his idea is basically that characters would act like assholes and not get any karmic consequences for it.
Kind of a weird take considering a lot of Tim & Eric skits involved Tim being a jerk to Eric (and/or the extras) and getting away with it. In fact, Key and Peele was mostly like that too, with Key being the punching bag.
Yeah, he's gone down the politics drain. He's invested in it, so it's hard to see him changing but he's in the class with people who steer every thought into something connected to someone they hate. People blamed everything on bush for a while. Then Obama. Then trump. The man is a hammer who only sees red and blue nails at this point.
He's a big fan of stuff like Alan Partridge and Spinal Tap. Tim's characters and universes are parodies. That's how you can use that humor while putting down real life assholes at the same time. There's also a difference between absurd T&E stuff that is ambiguous and walks a fine line and straight up stupid right wing humor that punches down.
