While watching videos is cool, you will never learn how to modify a saw for increased performance without getting your hands greasy! That’s 1/2 the fun ! 😜
Raise the transfers to 118~122 primary and secondaries, swap the nozzle in the 620 carb. Should make a very agressive saw. While raising the secondaries be careful not to go too deep, up around 120 the top gets thin, if you get agressive trying to flatten the roof. If you need/want I have extra 590 cylinder. Good luck, and keep up the good work.
Wow I just watched your echo video again..thats some amazing work joe..very cool to see you giving a brother some tips from your experience with them..outstanding!!
@@chapsmaketory3960 I'm glad you enjoyed the video. I am all for trying to help someone trying to find more power from a saw. If I can help someone save a cylinder I will try my best.
Your theory makes total sense, in a nut shell if it is the upper transfers you can't bleed off all the pressure causing a pressure build up in the case/transfers and bleeds back into the intake. Your explainations and illustrations on this stuff is the best I think. Great work 👍 nice hewing hatchet!
After watching all these video’s I finally figured out how to start the 590. LOL I love it now for the class it’s in. 2 to 3 pulls now and it starts. No flooding. Thank you
Good on you! That explanation is perfectly logical ! I used to tinker with two strokes in late 70,s not for speed but for torque and reliability as we were riding in the wilderness of north western Canada .
I am in the same boat, I started with a ms270. Run my 272 husqvarna most of the time. Big wood 394 the kids get the small saw. Thanks for sharing always enjoy.
Great video, really appreciate your expertise and perspective. About 8/9 months ago I purchased a 590, after seeing your vid 590 v.562xp Husky. Typically don't cut much wood a year, so didn't want to spend big cash, but also didn't want a saw I was going to struggle with every time I wanted to use it... since then we have had 2 bad storms, not typical for me, and ended up running the crap out of it with 6 downed oaks and some busted up white pine along with sevrral trees for neighbors. I couldn't be happier! Probably a mix of Echo being solid and having went to it from a PP $145 saw :-) either way, very satisfied with the 590. Thanks for all the work you put into these videos!
Tinman, my first saw and mod, CS 490, pulled 13 500 wide open with the limiter caps removed. I tuned it down to 12 500 because I'm happy with the performance for what she is. Man, it is a torque monster. she cuts slower than a stihl but the torque is great for a couple hundred bucks.
Thanks for the advice on putting in bearings I used it on my Polaris ranger. I put a new front wheel bearing in freezing the bearing then heated the hub. It worked perfectly thank you.
Thanks for giving us an update! The way you explained it, makes perfect sense👍 glad I resisted the urge for the time being to grind on my 590 when removing the base gasket. Had the tools ready and told myself, you better not, Tinman's not happy with Caleb's saw at the moment. I know you'll get it. Excited to see how, when that time comes!!
Tinmaaaaan 🙄, totally followed everything you said brother. If the entire charge can't escape through the upper transfers then it can't be lit.. On the downstroke that unspent charge will escape through the muffler as the fresh change is being pulled into the case. The process needs that change to be Forced through the transfers. If the spark is hot then there shouldn't be a problem burning what's being compressed. I know I'm babbling Tinman but I think we are pretty much on the same page.. BTW, I'm a diehard 266 man, just ported another one and trying out a Molybean piston from Duke's. Quite a bit lighter than stock and seems like a very hard coating.. I'll pull it apart after cutting a few chords and see how the coating stands up. Once again we are all thankful for the time you put in to all the great videos. The new phone takes very crisp vids brother.. SLANT'E
If you’re right, I will grind the jbweld on the intake of my cs-490 and do transfert work because it had the same problem before the jbweld. I don’t care a lot about durability, but I have big fun running this saw. Thank you tinman, great channel!
You're right on the money It's so much clearer now Make it easy to understand those principles for porting saw's Im beginning in this world of 2 stroke mod's and i like your way of explaining how it works Thanks for sharing all that information.
I really enjoyed your video, I hadn't thought to much about the engine RPM and power. I'm running an Echo CS-8002 most days doing 2foot dia logs into rounds for firewood. So, lots of long cuts, I so hear you about speed. Mine is sharp but I feel no ware fast enough. Will have to look at options to increase power of saw
Thanks, hearing your thought process with problem solving helps me understand the "big picture" on how 2 strokes work. Even though I've never ported, or even tore one down.... yet 😉
These saws are notorious for flooding, especially with the "compression release". The real trick is to pull it a couple times when you have the spark plug out to clear the fuel ports. Place a folded paper towel over the spark plug hole as the first 4 stroke will spray full. You can now put a little tip full of oil directly in the cylinder if you choose (or not) to lube the cylinder, but be prepared for it to smoke for a few minutues when you get her back together. If you are having a hard time pulling the cord without the copression release, pull the cord past the first "stroke" (first bump of resistance) and start your stroke from there. Two reasons why this floods is using the compression release and not getting powerful enough pulls on the first 3 tries. On a side note, if you are not going to be using your saw for a few months or at season's end, always let the saw run out of full instead of using the stop toggle. As with all small carb 2 stroke engines, old fuel can mess with the ports. The more times you leave fuel in the lines, the sooner you will be needing to replace the carb. This is why your weed whacker doesn't work. If you have to, drain the tank and run it "out" or gauge your project and fill the tank to match the job
As with any custom work there will always be hiccups. For me the 590 in its stock form cuts everything I need at a "decent pace". It's a saw for the everyday man, at a price that is acceptable. I like the idea of erking a bit more out of it with the carb and coil. Perhaps porting might be better suited for the 620 since it already comes with the coil, carb and a 2 ring piston, but then again like you said this is unexplored territory and the bigger saws will always be faster when built right.
I have many larger saws, but I bought a EFCO CS52 at the pawn shop that looked brand new for $80, it now has a 24" cannon super bar and a narrow kerf chain, it's very impressive for 50cc, many times the same saws are hot rods for the factory making over 4hp, so bigger saws with that much piss and vinegar would be making an easy ten hp.
Tinman, I have a 620. I'm just a firewood guy. As a former owner operator of a 266, I've been super impressed with the 620. I TRY to find fault with it, but cannot! In my heart, I'm a husky man. But I don't like the new Huskies. Money wasn't a issue. The 620 is a simple straightforward saw like my old 266. Question is, you think the primary in he 620 is same as the 590?
I hot rodded an echo cs400. It’s a light little 42cc power head with a custom 20 inch bar running a full chisel. I can bury the whole bar into hard oak and it doesn’t even slow down and it just throws chips. It’s 42cc’s out cuts every other saw I’ve ever seen under 60cc’s. I love roosting chips in my friends faces that are running much bigger and more expensive saws. To top it off, it can sit for months and I can go start it within 3 pulls, even on a 20* day.
Hey tinman I'm as experienced in saws as you as I'm learning here to but I have had a echo cs-590 for 3 years All I did is remove the jet limiters and open the exhaust Everything else is stock and this saw will rip right alongside a 65 or 70 cc saw Pulling a 20 inch chain with a lot of authority
So, I am a bumper jack when it comes to some things. I am a 61 ½ y o Stone mason. I used every kind of combustible tool I ever had close enough to put my hands on. I like the Tinman. I am in NH so when you start with this is so and so MM and so mm. I have to say I am not writing this down. What would happen when you change the rings before you carve up the replacement cylinder. Is this blow Down blow by?
Ok something i learned about mine is the higher rpms out of the box come after the second tank of fuel when its hot. Its really wierd but you'll feel and hear it
@@buxtonworksawsllc9645 Thanks! I ordered two for my 590 and 600P projects. The 590 I'm making one change at a time, running it each time doing tree work to see the effects. Thanks again!
@@Engine4dragon Thanks for that! I have a 590 with the 620 coil and decompression delete. I have the 620 carb - it will be next. Good to hear the nozzle helps.
Always learning. That's what it's all about. I love to learn myself. I've never been a know it all because know it alls already "know everything". I listen to the guy who says I don't everything. Those are the guys who usually know what they are talking about.
Hi tinman I am Greg young my experience with 2 strokes is in 1990s I built race jet skis and milled heads decked cylinders and ported for several local shops . Lately I have been porting chainsaws. I ported a cs620p similar to yours I do duration no opening time . Exhaust 163 intake stock height wider slightly nothing to transfer openings except chamfering better. I also put pop up piston in sea level here I have 165 psi compression no base gasket. I dont cc unless I have removable head . Opened up lower transfers slightly . I know the more porting is done that slot more compression is needed dont know if this is difference or something else I is going on. A popup piston is cheap and might be worth a try. hope it helps . I like your videos I am just another guy in garage Greg
Thanks for info. I was thinking buying a used $200 cs-590. And think will pass to go for a used $350 cs-680. Those 680's are still made and used since the 90s , were the saw that made echo.
I have a CS-590 myself. I love it when it runs. I cant get the low jet adjusted correctly, it dies on idle but runs on full throttle at start up. This saw has always defeated me. I have adjust and rebuilt plenty of carbs on other saws but this one always leaves me scratching my head. Love the channel and love what you do with these saws. I have 12 acres in NH with mostly hard wood trees so I definitely fall in the farm ranch saw category lol.
See Buxton Work Saws llc comment about the Walbro part to change out. These carbs are made to run rich by having an extra nozzle in them so homeowners can't incorrectly run the saw lean and blow them up. You change the part to the new one without a hole in it and the carb becomes tunable like a standard saw. Worked great for me last winter on one i repaired for someone that wouldn't idle or run well.
Emm... some of the logic is a little off. Increasing the crankcase volume (opening out lower ports) REDUCES the crankcase pressure... imagine doubling the crankcase volume, crankcase pressure up or down ? "Primary Compression Ratio" for 2 strokes, is what we are on about here, and that long intake will give a low primary compression. Seems to me you've analysed the rich mixture issue as part of intake timing being too long (entirely plausible) and then ignored it. How can changing the transfers fix that? Taking the exhaust off most likely just allowed the cylinder to empty out a bit more of the end gas - always good for the nest combustion cycle, thats not the same as pulling fuel back in from the exhaust.
Trying to cut up smaller logs with a big saw is just a pain in the ass. But I just cut firewood. I have small medium and large saws and use them accordingly. Kind of like hammers. One doesn't do everything well.
Had my CS590 for 3 years no issues with it, until suddenly fail. It may need a new carburetor. Stalls and shuts off. Put new spark plug, new gas filter, spark arrestor was clean, put new air filter, cleaned up really well with compress air. And problem doesn't go away. It may need a new carburetor? It's common to have a carburator peoblems on this machine? I was really happy with it for about 3 years.
I've got a black 32" powermatch bar like you have behind you... SPENDY!! (my dealer even tried to talk me out of it lol). But Awesome. Paid for itself on the first use 👍👍 🍻
I went back and had a look at your previous video. Those transfers do look pretty squat. Looks like a real head scratcher for you. You could always make it free port and chuck fuel charge out the exhaust. Probably wouldn't run that flash but you could run an igniter and shoot flames. Haha. Best of luck buddy.
Since talking abt different cylinder. What abt take one you have and JB weld the intake change timing . See if can save factory cylinder. I'd go with different cylinder like you said. But I've seen guys run cylinder with JB weld to change timming to get what they want. That or change flow pattern in both intakes and exhausts. When I get done with other projects have time get into saws. I'd like take a cylinder that classified as junk. And try welding the intake or exhaust and fix it that way. And see what happens. Of course be testing on my own stuff.
The beard is wearing nicely if I do say so myself (I have a wife and daughter btw) there mr tinman, I'll compliment a nice beard right quick like lol, I feel like back in grade school in math class but fun and allready obsessed with subject , tinman say slowly, and the blow down...15 degrees blow down, BD. Hahaha I love it
I grew up in California which has some of the strictest environmental regs in the world - small engine manufacturers make separate "California Only" models - and emissions equipment will suck 20% of your power out of the box.
Tinman, have you looked into the high jet issues with these saws - I have read the high jet has a bypass that keeps it from ever leaning out. See the comments below about that jet. Thanks for the videos.
Please build a ECHO 4910/501p. Guys are building them all over RU-vid and reporting they respond very well to modification. It would be awesome to see your version of one built. Hello from Ontario.
Now Im REALLY interested in this project. Im curious if this works, ir makes sense. I hogged the transfers out on that Makita 6100 I was telling you about also. Excited for the next one.
Thanks for this, Tinman! I have a brand new Timberwolf with 20in bar and am asking what I should do to it. I'm interested in the 620 carb and coil, but wondering if you recommend I do anything beyond that. I mostly only cut birch and black & white spruce in winter in Interior Alaska, so usually near 0F or colder. I'd like to be able to run my saw in the 30s below. What modifications to the saw do you recommend I do to get the best performance out of it? Also, should I thin bar oil with diesel/kerosene or get a winter oil like Stihl's? I've read the Oregon all season oil is very thin and wondering if that would work. Also could adjust the oiler, since I'll usually be running thin oil. I've run saws a fair bit, but tweaking them like this is new... but I love perfecting things, so I'm open to having some fun with it. Love your videos. Thanks!
Ok, I don't know nothing from nothing about porting saws but a thought, if you are getting too much fuel why not try to restrict the fuel coming in, smaller fuel line, to see if it cleans up. Just a thought. Good stuff though Tinman and others comments. Mahalo...🤙.
List on build up items for the 590, im concerned if it has a open bar where the bars changeable first without dealing with the clutch, im debating between the 590 or the cs4510
Interesting Because I was thinking about getting the 590 but this Definitely has me rethinking now. However now I am very curious as well to know what's going on their
I find it odd that Im just now understanding that Stihl sells like 20 saws in the 12 13lb range and to me there is only 1 That sticks out. 462. The only Draw back is the cost. But for what you get pound for pound its about as good as it gets. Falling Bucking what ever you need. No its not a limb saw or a Ultra light saw but you dont need anything crazy for a limb saw or a light duty saw. 261 is my choice for that stuff. 10.2lbs.
could you skirt the problem (no pun intended) by fitting a piston with a longer skirt, shortening the intake timing? or a piston with a lower pin and raise the cylinder for the same effect? to me that could be a cheaper way of testing your theory/fixing the problem without potentially having to buy a new cylinder. i am loving the more in-depth look at theory. to me i see it as, the more knowledge the greater the chance of making the right decisions on what to change.
Try a smaller carb. I put a tiny little carb from a hand held leaf blower on an 8hp Tecumseh that's runs a wood splitter and it runs awesome and it's held on with zip ties and wire.There's a video of a kid that owns a 76 ford Maverick car with a 302 motor and he made a throttle body that would fit on his car with a carburator from a " lawnmower".... Long story short he could rip the tires run all out and is getting 45'miles to the gallon. Even he said that it doesn't make sense and shouldn't work but it does. Sometimes man made machines work better when instead of going bigger go the opposite. A guy with a 2500 HP Vette was braking traction damn near all the way in a 1/4 mile pull . He turned the HP down and finally was hooking getting decent times.
Curious to see what the fixes is for the 590. If it's true what you're saying too much into charge coming in, I wonder if opening up the intake port to slow the intake charge would help? Not changing the intake timing. Just increasing intake port volume size only. Thanks for sharing your notebook information.
yes, maybe the upper transfers are too small, or maybe the lower bypass ports are soooo big, that you might consider stuffing the case. Thanks for the update. [ I added this: long bore=more fuel in the bottom end since the bypass ports were enlarged. Harvey might disagree, 'bigger is better' he might say, but you've lost transfer velocity, and as you mentioned , too much fuel.]
Can anyone tell me if the numbers translate to 50cc saws? I have an ms260 and a brand new 550xp that need some lovin. Limbing in hardwoods... There is no stand up and buck in those messes. Falling and bucking are 462 and 2171. Firewood is 362. All woods ported. But my poor limbers are, unfortunately, stock.
I'll have to look at my air filter. Check for fuel. What would you recommend one do if they intend to keep it stock. Just need it to run reliably/consistently. Doesn't seem relevant to what your dealing with. Though I had a 590 that developed a leak around the decompression easy start plunger. Luckily it was still under warranty.
@@countryfriedent I knew it had a bad coil when I first tested it out, I replaced it the coil and I got it to fire and run for 30ish seconds when it was bone dry but it hasn't started since then
Sometimes those farmertec cylinders have crazy long intake timing. You may have too much intake duration or the metering lever in the carb is too high.
To give you a different question, one that I am interested in right now, what is the best 18" bar brand to run on a saw for firewood cutting or tree work?
