Even the album art is complimentary, both depict barriers but one has gaps giving us hope of breaking through while the other highlights the isolation of being stuck on one side, just like their respective films!
But the gaps in Tommy are black.. do you still think it means hope? Maybe it could say something about what the boys thought about hope? I'm not at all disagreeing with you, to be clear! Just curious
In Jesus Christ Superstar, which is also about the price of fame, Judas (the narrator) asks Jesus, "Can't you see what is happening?" It's interesting that all three rock operas are essentially about the same subject.
@@Serai3 all three rock operas are similar because they were written in the same time period by a bunch of guys who all knew each other, and were competiting with each other to write rock operas.
@@perfectallycromulent Dude, The Wall was written nearly ten years after Superstar. Not the same time and certainly not in the same musical era. 1979 was a very different musical time than 1970.
Tommy is like a cool acid-trip that you can't help but tell your non-user friends as they just smile and nod. The Wall is a bad acid-trip that gets you put into therapy.
Definitely agree. Quadrophenia, for some reason, always gets glossed over and people kind of talk about The Who as though the band ended after Who's Next. And The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway, while I'm not sure how much could be said about it from a cultural standpoint as compared to just the craziness described in the songs and story.
I first encountered the Wall during quarantine in 2020. During that time, I spent most of my time in one room doing school online. My parents recently divorced, my overbearing mother was on the other side of the country, and as an only child, there were days where I wouldn't talk to anyone. I was alone for so long, and by chance, RU-vid recommended Another Brick in the Wall Pt. 2. I enjoyed it, and on a whim, I put on the album. I never resonated with an album as much as I did, before or since. Despite its dark tone, it granted me comfort knowing that others have shared a similar pain, a similar emptiness and loneliness in their lives. I knew I was no longer alone, that we were struggling together. It was one of the darkest parts of my life, but I'm glad to say that chapter is over. I have found solace in the company of those I care about, and the world feels brighter.
Coincidently the wall is based on a divorce as I'm sure you seen? But sorry that occured. Glad you were able to enjoy that album. Such an amazing piece of art
As someone who is a big fan of rock operas in general I feel like this video was made for me. Personally, I grew up listening to Tommy and it was my introduction to rock in general. I even got to play the album at a school of rock when I was a teen. But my favorite album and favorite piece of entertainment ever is the wall
When I first listened to 'Hey You', I thought it was two people talking to each other. Though, as I started to listen to the whole album multiple times, I realized that it was just Pink talking to himself. With Gilmore and Waters working off each other as Pink's different personalities. However, that idea never really left my mind, and if I was in charge of telling this story. I would have 'Hey You' be a moment where another mentally disturbed individual knocks on Pink's door while he's leaning against it in a daze. And the two start singing to each other about how they're both the same. A brief moment of humanity is separated by a figurative and litteral wall. However, when Pink opens the door at the line 'Together we stand, divided we fall.' He finds that the other person is gone, for what reason he doesn't know. And here he is, again, isolated and alone.
Tommy” is my favorite album of all time, specifically because as a 13 year old boy with Cerebral Palsy, I deeply related to its story of a young man struggling against the limits of his own body, desperately seeking real human connection...and, let’s be honest, the fairy tale cure and rise to megalomaniacal celebrity really appeals to an angsty, hormonal teenage boy. 😂
In a way, that part of the story is kind of more satisfying in this video we're commenting. So why not integrate it in our view of the album? Pete Townsend is not the best storyteller in the world. And he made Tommy under enormous pressure.
I went through a pretty hefty falling out with a very close friend of mine around winter 2023 and Christmas, since then we have been permanently separated from each other. I felt deeply connected to The Wall and Tommy, I wanted to isolate myself from everyone by being deaf, dumb and blind because she was “just a brick in my wall”. I learnt about Syd Barrett’s isolation from society and wanted to do what he did. I heard about the visceral divide between Waters and Gilmour and felt like I could relate. In the aftermath, I learnt more about Townshend’s spiritual message in Tommy, Lifehouse and Quadrophenia. I also listened to David Gilmour’s solo album On An Island, and I felt very at ease and peaceful when I listened to it. I set about making a radical change in my personality, urging myself to be more “peaceful”, because I realised the magnitude of chaos in my life. This helped me come to terms with this separation and finally accept the life I have to live from now on. Consequently, I saw that my former friend actually went through a process of isolating herself from others. She cut herself off from all her friends and was absent from school most of the time. She only ever talked to two people, from what I know. I have a bad feeling that I was a “brick in her wall” that catalysed her want to isolate herself. A want, which she may have had for a long time. If you were able to read all that, props to you for sticking around. And if Polyphonic ever sees this, please listen to On An Island. I’d love to see your interpretation of it (it’s alright if you don’t want to).
You’re not alone. I know so many people including myself who connected so deeply to the wall and Tommy and wanted to alienate themselves. Keep up the good work man, you gotta tear down the wall, be vulnerable. The people in life who love you will be there for you, but you’ve gotta be willing to let yourself love and be loved. ❤
+1 to On an Island, even tho I think Waters Pink Floyd > Gilmore Pink Floyd, even with Gilmore being my favorite guitarist. Division Bell was gooooood, but, idk, it feels like listening to Pink Floyd thru a Joshua Tree filter. Check out Roger Waters' solo work too my guy. His first two solo spins would've been remembered as some of Pink Floyd's best work, they're that good.
@@B_Van_Glorious I've listened to Radio KAOS pretty recently and it was really good. I'll check out Pros And Cons of Hitchhiking next. I agree with your opinion on Division Bell, it sounds very treble and theres not really a lot of bass. But I sort of like that sound because it feels like having a cool shower on a hot day. It feels very fresh, Cluster One and Marooned particularly. Also have you listened to the two singles Gilmour has released for his upcoming album Luck And Strange? They're both so good
i relate to this way too much, it’s concerning. literally everything you said mirrors what happened between me and a friend earlier this year. i’m still comijg to terms with my self. realizing i was the brick and how much i hurt them.. it’s the gultiest i’ve felt genuinely
@@treestumps_ I don't know exactly how your falling out went, but I can assure you that you are not a bad person. We make mistakes in life. My former friend doesn't have it in her to forgive me but maybe your friend does. Hopefully you two can apologise and forgive. I believe in you :D
My father served in the Italian campaign alongside the late Eric Waters. They didn't know each other, but Dad was at Monte Cassino and was near Anzio when Waters died
An interesting detail from the filming of "The Wall": Bob Geldof said that in the scene where he's sitting in the hotel room and the groupie is trying to get his attention, she finally just takes his hand and starts kissing his fingers. "I suddenly felt this wave of depression wash over me, and I started to cry. I hadn't cried since I was a child." Geldof was not an actor and never acted again, but he said that moment was really revealing for him. (Roger Daltry wasn't and isn't an actor, either, which is why he didn't really know how to put across the internal experiences Tommy was having.)
Tommy might be one of my favorite albums. I got into it as a kid and even as an adult its like a WIlly Wonka fever dream/nightmare escape album. I don't listen to the who as much anymore but it still holds a special place for me.
The blankness of Daltrey's Tommy allowed the surrounding performances to shine all the more - Ann Margaret, Oliver Reed, Paul Nicholas, Keith Moon, Tina Turner, Elton John, Robert Powell - totally overblown performances but stellar all the same🤘🏻
My dad introduced me to both Pink Floyd and The Who at a very early age. One of my earliest memories is watching a live performance of Syd Barrett and Pink Floyd on PINK FLOYD BBC 1 1967, playing "Astronomy Domine" in our living room, i do believe i had like 3-4 years. Growing up, we had access to MTV when I was nine years old, and I remember being extremely scared by the music video for "Another Brick in the Wall." To this day, I still haven't watched the movie my dad recommended-haha. When I was thirteen, my dad and I binge-watched the entire show of BEAT-CLUB (yes, all in German, and yes, without subtitles-we are from Brasil). During that time, I saw The Who perform "My Generation," "Substitute," "Pictures of Lily," and other hits. My dad recommended the movie Tommy because he knew I liked The Who a lot. Around the ages of 14 to 16, I watched Tommy and became obsessed with it. The music, acting, and storyline were out of this world. I loved the album too, but the movie had a heavier rock feel and featured many guest musicians like Elton John, Eric Clapton, Tina Turner, and Arthur Brown. Maybe it’s finally time to watch and listen to The Wall after all-haha.
My grandpa had a painting of Meher Baba in his house and a photo of him on his dashboard. As a kid, I thought it was just Robin Williams with a mustache.
Speaking strictly in musical terms, I find The Wall to be way more powerful and gripping than Tommy. Despite some excellent musical highs in parts, Tommy feels fragmented and disjointed to me in a way that The Wall doesn’t (or doesn’t as much). But the comparison of the stories and themes that you’ve done here is really fantastic, and shows how they really are two sides of the same coin. Recently I heard someone say on a podcast that they thought Tommy’s followers turn on him and KILL him at the end, but I’m glad that’s not everyone’s interpretation. The continued relevance of these pieces thematically really cannot be overstated. Trauma and cycles of trauma, whatever it/they may be due to, are still monumentally impactful in lives, families, communities, nations, and the world. Thank you for this video. Very well done.
I love Pink Floyd’s “The Wall.” I remember listening to that album so much, that the majority of their songs were on my iPod library top 25 for awhile. Good times.
Thanks for putting this together, I'm a big fan of Maggie mayfish, and as a long-time polyphonic fan as well. I think it was really cool to hear the discussion between you 3 creators together. I was a huge fan of these rock operas when I was 14-17, my formative music years. They're both incredible albums and movies, and I think the connection between creativity and mental health as well as the intersections of war, disability, drugs, sex, abuse, fascism, and community in western(British) society is really important to examine
Two albums that I get along without very well. Both bands have better albums. In the case of The Who, after. And in the case of Floyd, before. In narrative terms, Tommy is certainly better. Both have underwelming endings. Even Waters has said: «Tear down the wall.... and then what?» But I guess The Wall is a far more ambitious project. Unfortunately, the light is all in the creativity, but not in the concept. It's an extremeliy bleak and depressing work of art.
I think the Wall discussion needs to have some focus on the additions and cuts at different points. For the movie, "When the Tigers Broke Free" and "What Shall We Do Now" were added, while "Hey You" was cut. Sure, the latter wasn't as much because Waters didn't want it, but because it was rehashing things that you would find elsewhere, but it's still a cut. "What Shall We Do Now", meanwhile, was supposed to be on the album, but cut for space, even if the question it's trying to answer ("Empty Spaces") is still there. The idea in it, that consumerism adds more to the wall, is highly important. "Tigers" does seem to be added more for narrative than anything else, though. I mean, the song has some evocative bits (like seeing the uncaring aspect that King George signed Pink's father's death notice with a rubber stamp), but the main crux, that his father died in the war, is already covered elsewhere. Though, I guess "Tigers" shows how needless the death was (and does continue a narrative line from "Us and Them" off of Dark Side, where war is depicted as leaders sending people to the slaughter all for no reason). Really, The Final Cut is an interesting look as an extension of The Wall. It's mentioned in the video as a prequel, but it's both prequel and sequel. Pink's father isn't really the focus, even if it may seem like it's him, but the prequel bits are actually for the teacher from The Wall. After all, this soldier returns home, and in "One of the Few" makes it pretty explicit ("When you're one of the few/to land on your feet/what do you do/to make ends meet? (Teach)"). Heck, in the short film depicting some songs from the album, the main character is played by the same man who played the teacher in the movie. Though Pink's father may actually be mentioned, the gunner who is the focus of "The Gunners Dream", speaking his last words over the intercom as he dies. However, despite the prequel aspect, there's also the fact that some of these songs were cut from The Wall, and so are told by Pink himself. The title song seems to be sung by Pink, and it implies the end of his story is possibly tragic, especially as the line "I'll tell you what's behind the wall" is cut off by the sound of a gunshot. Sure, the song ends with the narrator being pulled back from the brink by a phone call and that he "never had the nerve to make the final cut", but that's also not a situation where he decided not to, but just that he didn't this time. Now, the final song on the album, meanwhile, is quite the juxtaposition as the world ends in a nuclear apocalypse, but there's a serenity shown in that in that moment of inevitable death, all of our differences and squabbles are forgotten, because "we were all equal in the end". Still, far more pessimistic end than The Wall (and one of Pink Floyd's weakest albums, really). Waters, in his solo career, added to The Wall narrative some more. The Wall Live in Berlin changed the ending to a much more optimistic one, swapping out the final song from the album with "The Tide is Turning (After Live Aid)", which originally closed his Radio KAOS album, and envisioned a future where humanity actually stood together with empathy and there was a brighter future. But Roger has also said that his album Amused to Death is basically the third album in the narrative of The Wall, and while that claim seems dubious (nothing attaches it narratively to what came previously, though I guess there's thematic parallel), it does offer an insight into where he felt things should go, and it's back to the bleakness of The Final Cut. Heck, the title song references how humans died, that alien anthropologists conclude "This species has amused itself to death". The whole thing is a further condemnation of human society, and brings in an element that was surprisingly lacking in the other two albums: religion. The "What God Wants" trilogy is all about how humanity can do horrible things in the name of religion. Meanwhile, the "Perfect Sense" songs explore another aspect of consumerist culture, in how the government will manipulate the people through money. The most evocative part, to me, though, is opening, "The Ballad of Bill Hubbard", which features an actual soldier talking about his ultimately futile attempt to save a fellow soldier during the war, before needing to abandon him in no man's land, and how it haunted the narrator ever since. Maybe it's the fact that it's not some fantastical narrative or the like, just a poor old man's true story of being broken by war. Ultimately, Roger's cynicism makes for poignant albums and music in general, but it does make for some dark conclusions. Interestingly, The Pros and Cons of Hitchhiking, as well as Radio KAOS (as mentioned), are so much more optimistic. The former being a personal revelation, and the latter one for the whole world. He does have it in him, but I guess he can't muster that up nearly as much as he might need to.
I love that they both use Jesus imagery in a way entirely appropriate to their own narcissism. Daltry is like "Let's take the piss outta Jesus, innit" and Waters is like "This is my flesh, which I have given up for you"
I never thought about a possible connection between these albums, but it's definitely a profound one. I always saw both works as dire warnings by the Bands about the thing that all of their fans want. You can absolutely feel the regret from their past actions, and concern for the next generation of fans listening, who dream of being like them.
If you didn't know, there's a sequel to the wall called The Final Cut. It's even more personal and cutting, it's amazing Waters even released it at all. It's not as flashy as the Wall, but what is? But the Final Cut leaves me feeling shook, not the Wall. I was lucky enough to see Waters perform his updated Wall in 2012, and it was fucking godly. Nothing has even come close to that level of production and live music is my jam, having seen 100s upon 100s of show. Roger Waters = GOAT.
The production on "Tommy" is just altroses. What the heck happened to Keith Moon's drums and man, they need to record some parts of it (I know, they were rushed). "The Wall" production is just perfect, Ezrin was just what they needed.
The "tear down the wall" thing is Waters resolving that the only thing to do is comunicate his inner struggles and declare his vulnerability in the most spectacular, ridiculous, bombastic, over-engineered way. Sure it's a narcisistic thing to do, and way more expensive than therapy, but Waters is just too toxic to 1 to 1 human connection and The Wall is his incredibly over-complicated way to say he's sorry for being the a-hole he usually is, and to admit he doesn't know what to do with it. And that is the pathetic-but-self-aware beauty of it. Also I think is kind of a queer thing in some f-ed up way. Like, in the spectrum of things introverted, probably toxic but self aware people do to open their hearts you have everything in between having a goth phase to a full come-out, and then there's the "releasing a 2LP conceptual rock opera and touring an incredibly expensive show where you literally build a wall between you and your audience" course of action
Dude. Your Vid SA’s are always very insightful entertaining and accurate…but THIS?!? This may be your Sgt. Pepoer’s. Well done my friend. Well…fkin…done!!!
By far your best video! Enjoyed every moment, immensely! It was comprehensive, solidly researched, and supportive of each major claim. All that AND a drop from Frontier Psychiatrist ?! Excellent job!
Ken Russell deserves much more credit for the fantastic visuals and script - it was his idea to change the era and the production design was excellent - plus all new versions of some great tracks with guest artists and classics in their own right.
~ Never really liked The Wall much. I think it's a better produced record than Tommy, but it just continually bashes one over the head all the way through. Always loved the music of Pink Floyd, and I got The Wall as a X-mas present in 1979. Tried to appreciate it, and where I could tell a lot of work went into it, something just wasn't there. Just never settled well with me. I saw the movie a year or two after its release, and I just didn't get into it. A friend of mine who saw it first, told me to expect "a piece of crap." Really? And, looking back, I just never liked it. Excellent animations, but otherwise, I'll pass. I thought the Tommy film was gaudy, pompous, overblown excess. But that is Ken Russel's style. Russel's film "Altered States" was mind-blowing. Floyd and The Who are two of my favorite bands, and the original "Tommy," 1969 release, was, during my high school days in the 70s, one of my all-time favorites. There's an immediacy in the sound, somewhat incomplete sounding in spots, but that was part of its charm. In all, Tommy has its peaks and valleys, somewhat esoteric storytelling, where The Wall is simply "life sucks, nobody helps me, my father's dead, my wife cheats," and in the end, just desolation. In hindsight, hard pass.
A magnificent essay, analysis and production! Two points I would like to interject... In 'Tommy', it would make more sense, and be much more traumatic, that the presumed dead Capt. Walker is killed by the Stepdad. Surely, Tommy had seen his father's pictures before the incident, and realizing his father is back, and they might make up for lost time and connect, only to have all of those opportunities snatched away by the Stepdad's violence, gives much more gravitas to the story. I also think that Cousin Kevin and Uncle Ernie are the Stepdad's family members and not Walker's family. That would explain the vicious nature of the acts committed against Tommy, because the Stepdad, Uncle and Cousin are all low-class thug types. Secondly, I believe that Pink Floyd was an incredible group, and a lot of that credit must go to Roger Waters. Is he the greatest bassist? No. He's a great lyricist though. When Syd was gone, did Roger highjack the band? Absolutely! Was it tyrannical to fire Richard Wright from the group? Absolutely! Oddly enough, Wright was the only member who actually made money on 'The Wall' tour. So we've gathered that Roger is a tyrannical rock star, who on one hand opposes Fascism, because Fascism is what killed his father, while simultaneously being a Fascist, while still complaining about Fascism on every album 40 years on?!
The wall is something that I've gone over a few times and you absolutely nailed it, however there's some things that i would like to add. First, there are songs from the wall that were cut/ that can slot in perfectly into the album. "When the Tigers Broke Free (i think was in the movie) is a song that slots in perfectly and was part of The Final Cut. And personally i like "what shall we do now" over empty spaces. It paints a very clear picture of Pink's mental state at that point in the film/album and was cut due to the limits of Vinyl sizes. Another fact: there is a second guitarist that has worked on The Wall as well as Animals. He was the man who performed "Is There Anybody Out There?" On the record. His name was Snowy White. Next, i want to touch on the debate about "Comfortably Numb" and the meaning behind it because this is something that will never end due to the band members directly being quoted, "conspiracy theories" around it, and more. To start, its widely known that Rogers wrote the lyrics and Gilmour wrote the music. My guitar teacher has met just about everyone when it comes to the biggest names in rock. Hes got a white Strat with 30+ signatures on it that he will never play and rooms full of signed pictures with artists. He has direct contact with David Gilmour. And he has asked about the writing of Comfortably Numb. From what i was told, Gilmour talks about a somewhat similar experience to Rogers. He had a knee injury and was often injected with painkillers before shows and it occasionally had adverse effects. My interpretation of this is that he used that experience to fuel how he composed the song and the kind of emotion he puts into his performance. Edit: finally finished the video. Great job going over "The Final Cut." You may have touched on it briefly but most neglect to mention how it not only feels like a Rogers solo project but a Prologue to The wall. As for the discussion in the end, i have a few issues but nothing that's really important. The first is the talk about the portrayal of women in the albums always being negative. These albums were written in a very different time. Same goes for the "lining up Qu**rs against the wall" part. Homosexuality was not widely accepted at this time. But I don't like how she tried to attempt to tie this to modern day society and indirectly sort of insinuate that the right does this kind of thing. It doesn't happen and hasn't happened for decades in advanced societies. Same as the "we live in a patriarchy" part as well. Though some remnants of that era still stand, most of that is gone. Insinuating that the portrayal of women in the late 70s (technically more like 60s since the albums are done from the perspective of a post war era) is a 1 to 1 representation of modern society 50 years later is disingenuous.
Yes, I agree...if The Who's album could have been remixed in 1975 for the movie, it would have made the film SO much better...Oliver Reed and Ann Margaret were horrible Singers, and even Tina Turner, Elton John and Eric Clayton's performances in the movie leave something to be desired...having said that, The Wall is a better movie, but Tommy is a better album, and if you listen to live versions of it from the early 70's, The Who were fantastic!!!
One thing that's absolutely spectacular about Tommy is its musical adaptation. It is currently BACK ON BROADWAY and I was lucky enough to see it. It's a WAY better visual adaptation than the movie, it makes so much more sense, and the performances are amazing. It debuted in 1993 so if you're curious, definitely go listen to the original broadway cast recording. I'm hoping they release a new one for the revival soon. There's no The Wall musical (afaik) and thus no point of comparison, but I had to mention it.
Very well done video! I've never thought of the similarities between Tommy and The Wall. I think for me the Wall is an album that's stayed with me more than Tommy. And that's nothing against The Who and their great piece of work, it's just Pink Floyd has a way of really getting under your skin... especially with songs like Hey You, Comfortably Numb and Goodbye Blue Sky.
I wish that I liked Tommy, or really much of anything The Who, but I just don't vibe with their songwriting. Pink Floyd, however, I can't get enough of.
Tommy has always felt like a more mature story to me. It might be the place I was in, listening to it in college as opposed to The Wall which I heard in high school. Roger Waters is a great songwriter but he's always lacked a bit of narrative nuance. I think this heavy-handedness works amazingly in Wish You Were Here, mostly because of the shorter length. Pete Townsend's lyrics make me sit and think a lot more about what he meant. Waters leaves no question. Both albums are classics and get stuck in my head all the time.
paraphrasing a moment from the extended conversation: it's wild how both films at one point say, "the real problem with this patriarchal society is the woman in my life". each film says it in full seriousness, knowing the audience is going to nod along and agree. personally i don't think anything's been done in the past 40y to really counter that idea. pointing at it while doing it isn't "subverting expectations", you're just trying and failing to be clever. it's still all a vanity piece for the man, "look how sad and lonely and emotional i am, aren't you amazed" etc. while the women still get shat on and minimized. if the girl ain't dying for the guy's story to advance, she's gunna be degraded. still a prop, not a person. there's a Final Girl Studios vid that dives into this stagnation, for those interested (it's about why the death of teen girls is romanticized so much in fiction.)
As two of the biggest albums of my young life (and to various extents, still being so -- though at this point, Tommy has faded from prominence more than The Wall has, for me personally), I'd certainly noticed various parallels between them. Seeing this direct juxtaposition is somehow still beyond what I've ever done, really, and is super interesting. Thanks for diving into this.
5:29 - Actually the group The Pretty Things began work in 1967-68 on their concept album S. F. Sorrow about S.F. Sorrow, a man who slowly lost everything in life and then a man Barron Saturday, teaches him to remove his eyes and realize the whole world is lonely and untruthful. It's not much of a story but it musically and lyrically inspired Pete as they were working in the same recording studios at one point and Pete asked for an early rough mix of it.
I think Ethel Cains Preachers Daughter would make a very interesting contemporary comparison to these two albums. A concept album involving very similar themes, generational trauma, problematic fatherhood/parenting, Christianity, being doomed to repeat cycles of violence. I can't speak to Tommy but the wall and preachers daughter are probably my two favourite albums of all time.
It's a strange comparison, because the albums come from two different epochs, which one can hear in the music as well as sense in the content. A more interesting comparison would be to compare "Tommy" with the rock opera that preceded it by about 6 months, "S.F. Sorrow," by the Pretty Things. To my mind, S.F. Sorrow is far superior.
The first time I heard about the comparisons between these two was in an article in Guitar World magazine like 20 years ago and I must have listened to both records over and over again
Tommy vs. The Wall: the rock opera battle to the death ... where everyone wins! ( Or at the very least, it's a tie.) I do disagree with the characterization of the ending of The Wall as cynical, as I find "Outside the Wall" to be just as optimistic and life-affirming as "Listening to You," maybe even more so, given that the preceding journey has been even darker. Sure, Waters is a cynical bastard, and yes, once you break down one wall, another one usually starts forming (since the process of dealing with suffering never ends until you die), but to me at least, he takes a huge step in realizing that isolating himself was only a half-solution and one that was impossible to sustain, and that the only path forward is to open himself up to all the people who are still (miraculously) waiting for him "outside." I call that a "feel-good" ending in my book (assuming the preceding 79 minutes of pain, torment, and glorious guitar solos haven't crushed your spirit before you get there).
I grew up on Pink Floyd "The Wall". You know when you turn 13 or 14 years old and you start getting into music, like really getting into music. The album "The Wall was mine. I found it in my mother's records collection. This was the mid 80s. I listened to that album probably 20 times a day for two years straight. I had just started smoking weed back then too, so they kind of went hand in hand. Those songs were the soundtrack to my early teen years. They mean a lot to me.
These albumn are a decade apart. Since Tommy was hailed as the first concept album so of course Wall was influenced by it. Director Alan Parker even wanted to have the band in the background but couldn't make it work. Alot of the animation was from their concert tour where they were projected onto the chunks of white wall being built. Timelines are also pivotal. The movie Tommy was 1975 The moog synthesizer was new and Pete wanted to play. But this was the era of Rocky Horror and Phantom of the Paradise, right before disco. The wall represents a much more polished look., post disco.
(Pre-watch thoughts) Tommy is the story of Rock Music transcending celebrity and becoming a religous experience, that rock stars won’t be self serving demigods in and of themselves, but mere ministers and messengers of some higher power/cause. Thus is especially true in the original album where it’s Tommy himself and not his family that attempts to form a cult around himself and pinball, and at the end, is rejected and left behind by his followers, and has to come to terms with the fact that the true God of the Universe transcends any attempt to be boxed into a singular path or medium. The wall takes that thesis (perhaps unknowingly/coincidentally) and flips it on its head. Pink is a minister of something grander than himself, but it’s coming from a place of bitterness and hatred instead of pure innocence like in Tommy. Pink sees Fascism as the solution to his problems and (most likely in a psychotic delusion that ends with his suicide) believes his fans believe the same thing. If rock (especially prog rock) of the 60’s/70’s saw in itself the power to create beauty and exist as an avenue of discourse, the Wall and the punk movement that was starting to come into being around the time of it’s creation pointed out that idealism and navel gazing can just as easily become the avenue through which evil and destruction can arise. I think both albums are also tied into the mythos of the band. Tommy is Pete Townshend seeking to rise above a guitar smashing hooligan in the public eye and connect to Meher Baba’s teachings through his art. It’s very idealistic and of its time. Pink Floyd, on the other hand, can’t be mentioned without bringing up how Syd Barret took too much acid and how he ended up nearly useless to the band, the people closest to him having to leave him behind to become superstars while he stays with his sister and makes a few psych-folk albums and fades into obscurity. While it’s highly autobiographical on the part of Roger Waters, The Wall is the longest meditation that PF ever did on what exactly happened to Syd, shorter ones being Brain Damage and Shine On You Crazy Diamond. Pink Floyd spoke from experience that a mad genius isn’t all it’s cracked up to be, and that a deaf, dumb and blind boy can just as easily fade into nothing when his star has barely show as he can become the name on everyone’s lips.
Tommy and the Wall (and post-WWII British society) chose the trauma that could no longer hurt them in order to avoid the trauma that was yet to come. This might be called the "wisdom of trauma" - choose the monster that eats you in order that a worse monster cannot eat you (or at least the other monster has to do a lot more work). The traumas of nuclear annihilation and climate science of the 1950s and 1960s culminating in 1967's Manabe/Wetherald atmospheric model were the active traumas, the LIVING traumas. But no, these effectively do not exist in these movies and sadly in Polyphonic's analysis, as if where the camera is pointed matters instead of where the camera is *not* pointed. The wisdom of the villains of these movies, the societies that the apparently valiant heroes rail against (eventually leading to Reagan and Thatcher's privatization), is that by choosing a dead trauma that trauma could be controlled and contained, living inside a dead monster with no stomach acid. Dead traumas are comfortable, even nostalgic. Most importantly, they keep one's consciousness safe from actual reality, from living traumas that we fear will dissolve us if we dare confront them. Tommy and the Wall are true tragedies, but not in the way their creators suppose. These movies are undead, shambling corpses that believe they are alive. Reagan and Thatcher's power derived from precisely this, that they governed over cowardly and delusional societies. We received the leaders that we deserved.
To answer the point made at 46:38, it actually does express others point of view in the film when Pink's wife comes in while he's stoned and composing on the piano and says "Remember me? I'm the one the from the registry office." Referring to where they got their marriage license. All with the line "All alone or in twos the ones who really love you walk up and down outside the wall." This refers to this hard time these people have to endure as a result of Pink's unhealthy way of dealing with his suffering by shutting people out instead of allowing himself to show he is vulnerable and human just like the rest of us, and know that he is no better and no worse than anyone. That is the point Roger Waters is making with this song and with this album. We are all one ... Heaven is within through our perception as and choices we make and that in the end Love truly is the answer.
This movie fucked me up as a kid. I'm currently 40yo. I watched this movie when I was in grade school. I wanna say I was like 10 or 11 years old. I wanna say we had recently got Dish TV installed. I was going through all the channels. I believe the IFC channel played this after some anime thing. But yeah I was too young and there was a lot in this movie.
It’s hard. I love both of them. The wall, though, in addition to many of the song being pretty overplayed, is just too disturbing to watch with any regularity. Tommy, although it has some terrifying scenes, it’s campiness and generally more uplifting sound of the music, get you through it. I first became obsessed with Tommy the album as a ninth grader and didn’t watch the movie until a few years later ( personally I love Tina Turner singing the acid queen more than the original version ). I had never really even heard the wall album except for the title track until I blundered into some people watching the movie during a high school party and, being a little drunk, I was absolutely gob smacked and more than a bit disturbed.
I was 11 when The Wall album was released and was already into the Floyd, i also watched the movie in the cinema when it first came out. The Tommy movie was widely circulating on local stations in Italy where i grew up, and got to watch it several times in my teens and later. Later on i got the original album but used as i was to the many voices doing the different parts, the movie version sounded better to me.I love them both and have them both on DVD and go back to watch them from time to time. Very interesting breakdown although i don't really agree with some of the analysis and conclusions. Keep up the good work, i follow your channel regularly.
As much as I love both of these albums and enjoy looking at the shared ideas/concepts, my favourite will always be Quadrophenia. It has a more abstract storytelling like the Wall compared to the more straightforward style of Tommy, the more grounded simple story allows for great exploration of the ideas and concepts. I love how each of the band members are represented by one of the 4 themes and personalities, and the music overall across the album might be Townsend's overall best work
The Wall is one of my favourite albums ever and one of the most imaginative pieces I think ever made. Tommy I think at times is a bit uncertain in the way it tells the story which is why I think Qudrophenia is actually a far superior album
I hadn't actually heard of Tommy before so when I first clicked on this video I thought it was about some guy called Tommy who just had a problem with the wall
Hilariously by getting fired from the Floyd Rick won the most because the 1980 tour turned up no profit for band members and they actually ended up paying from their own pocket to cover losses but since Rick was at that point employed as stage musician he actually was paid his salary
I honestly would love to see a comparison between Tommy and Quadrophenia. I always felt that that latter was a good thematic sequel to Tommy, developing on its themes, and musically is actually kind of a good middle child between Tommy and The Wall.
It might be interesting to note that the Wall was a culmination of several albums of Waters writing songs inspired by Sid Barret and Sid’s psychological decline and that ‘Pink’ in the Wall is a combination of Sid and Waters experiences with fame
