TONEX The End of Modelers? NO: ITS MUCH WORSE than that! 

Don't forget I have a thing where you can vote your opinion and it would be great to see what the majority opinion actually is from higher numbers. Here: WANT TO VOTE? Go HERE: ru-vid.com/show-UCuuNmrkOEmTPnz4Dcc-Hi5wcommunity and if you can't actually vote there then thanks for at least trying... tell me if the TONEX 'changes everything' as they say?

Nobody is saying amps are dead, some people are saying modeling is dead. Amp capture technology is rapidly evolving and getting closer to the real thing.

They’re all tools. You can use several tools to get the job done. I just use whatever sounds/works best for the situation. I love tube amp, profilers and modellers. They’re all fun!

Playing the guitar is not just about the sound, but also the pressure, the feeling. It's an emotional thing. If I have a small flat in the centre and I just can't put a proper machine in there, then profiling is great because at least I can enjoy the sound. I wouldn't be able to use a normal machine there anyway. But on stage I want a proper amp with an amp behind me, not some FRFR.

I don't think all the other instruments are obsolete, but I sure like being able to capture my hand-built boutique amps and get the same sound and feel in a little pedal that costs $400. "Real" amps are awesome but they are also expensive, heavy and they get banged up - keeping them in the studio is an amazing thing!

I think tonex, due it's price, will allow more people access to profiling. In near future nux, hotone, valeton, donner etc... will go to produsce their own profiler too. In my opinion cheaper tube amps will tend to disappear, while the higher end ones will still exist (as for painting/photography, film/digital photos). For me modeling has more prospects for improvement in the future than profiling, but requires much more investment in each individual amp, costs that companies do not have with profiling, where the work is done by the user. By the way Tonex software allowed me to find my next tube amp :) (Naturally using the models made by the same user of multiple amplifiers, I don't think it's useful to use models made by different people to make this choice)

The topic of amp modelers versus actual tube amps isn’t so easy. In my humble opinion, I think the amp modelers have convenience and portability on their side. Obviously, someone who gigs regularly may consider that a terrific asset when trying to decide what to get. And yes, amp modeling and tone matching has come a long way over the years, so to be quite honest, the things sound not half bad! But…. (There’s always a but)! I myself own a Mesa Boogie JP2C, (with a Mesa Boogie Mark V before that) along with a pedalboard filled with all kinds of goodies. Maybe this is just silly, but when I plug into that amp and lock in my tone with the perfect effect for that moment, there’s nothing else quite like it. Sure, the amp modelers can give you all that too, but they can’t replicate the pride and passion I have for doing it all from the Mesa (and pedals) that I have working for me. The fine people at Mesa Boogie (and other amp companies) worked countless hours to get you the tones that give you goosebumps when you play! Playing out of a device that can copy something great is fine and all, but it just isn’t the same, and that’s all there is to it. Maybe I’m nuts (actually, I know I am), but that’s just how I feel. Is it a pain in the ass to carry all the stuff around (head, 2x12 cab, and pedalboard) when playing a show? Of course! But once I’m up and running, I couldn’t be happier, and wouldn’t trade it for the world. If I gigged regularly, perhaps I’d feel a different way, but I don’t. Just my thoughts. Take ‘em or leave em, but I’m with ya Tony. I hope the tube amps and companies that supply them stay around for quite some time. Cheers, and best to you and your family. Lenny Melzer

Tonex is the first modeler that has made me rethink the need for tube amps.

Opposite: more Tube Amps will be bought to be profiled When Kemper was being demo'd in 2011 it was directed at Studios to profile the amp tone the Artist got in case of much later overdubs were needed and the profile could be used by the Artist on Tour to reporduce their Amp tone saving freight costs. Same still applies but someone has to create the new Amp tone everyone wants

I've had a digital studio of some kind set up since the early 2000's (had a tape setup before) and I have tried all kinds of ampsims, IR's and similar guitar tech, including the new Tonex ap. I have often used S-Gear when tracking and still do. I also mic real amps in studio and have only ever gigged with real tube amps. I like all the tech thats available today...pretty cool stuff, but have no intention of getting rid of my tube amps or my guitar pedals/effects and I also don't see any of that stuff disappearing anytime soon.

Interesting video. I’ve been using the AFXIII for several years now exclusively for recording into Pro Tools and I’m really happy with it. I’ve owned several different modelers over the years (not Kemper or HELIX) and I think I’ve found the perfect tool for me. I’ve also owned several amps over the years including both tube and solid state. I currently own a Marshall DSL20 head going into a 2x12. All have their place. I actually prefer the tone of the AXEFXIII over the recorded tone of the Marshall, based on my experience. I’m sure the TONEX will find its place too with some people.

But does the Tonex have that amp in the room feel ? Cause my FM3 does not , and does the Tonex present you a great sound quickly ? As my FM3 does not . I spend too much time messing with options and not playing .

I totally feel your frustration. At last in my guitar playing journey, I’ve got a collection of three valve amps - A Fender Princeton 65, VOX AC15C1X, and a Marshall JTM Studio 20 watt combo. And now I feel like they’re becoming redundant with all the new tech. It pains me to have to now think of selling this gear on, to be in line with the ‘evolution’. Great channel, Tony, really like your content.

Dude Please live a 100 years in good health, you do so much good for guitar community.

Modelers will take a hit in sales for the next couple years, but they will innovate and use machine learning within their modeling to go beyond just simple captures and the current modeling in the next 2-5 years. I think what's phenomenal about TONEX is it exposes more young guys/gals to what a REAL tube amp SHOULD sound and feel like, and might even drive tube amp sales as people find their favorites in profiles and say "I want that at home". I love tube amps.. as well as analog pedals. They will never go away for me, but I love that I can profile them and take a more compact/reliable version to a gig or practice and easily recall presets without having to turn dials.

Can i plug tonex to my amp clean channel? cause my amp does not have an effects loop

I agree with you. But I also believe that the tube amplifier is absolutely essential for a guitarist who wants to experiment with sounds. Profiling is done on real amplifiers. And a profile, at the moment, consists only of a "snapshot" of the amplifier with precise settings. All the infinite variables that can be extrapolated from an amplifier cannot be contained in a handful of profiles. However it is likely that the cost and convenience of digital will greatly reduce the purchase of tube amplifiers. It already happens. But what's the point for an amateur guitarist to buy a 5,000 euro Friedman if he then has neither the possibility nor the practical tools to exploit it? Who can push a 100 watt Plexi around the house and record with a microphone? Yes, we can use something like a Torpedo Captor and IRs, but how close do we get to digital sound? Is it worth spending so much money? Sure for some people yes, but for most? I will never part with my tube amps, in fact, I will continue to buy more and more. But I will profile them. Digital, as I see it, is a great tool. Unfortunately it will have its drawbacks in the market. We can't do anything about it

When you mentioned the idea that the sound people are looking for are ampless. I think there’s more to think about there. Maybe that’s the biggest threat to tube amps; no one remembers or even experienced what they sound and feel like. Then the baseline becomes profilers or modelers. Anything that sounds different is different.

I actually bought myself an Engl Steve Morse signature amp a couple of months ago after using just my Helix for years. I love my Helix and I will always use it for effects and midi switching for my amp. And I'm very happy that I can use it at home into my Two Notes Captor with a good IR. And sound wise, I don't think it matters much, the audience isn't gonna notice any difference. I got myself a tube amp, because I missed the feeling of an actual amp through my Mesa cab. I don't think amps will ever go away, all the profiles and amp models are based on actual amps so

People are saying only older people are buying actual amps anymore. I don’t think so. I really think Amos and digital tech can coexist. There’s a time and place for using both. It’s exciting that you can take any tone in your pocket, but it’s just not the same experience as having a real deal amp - and not just tube amps, but solid state too. You just dial it in quickly and get to playing faster. That’s not possible with all this tech. You have to go digging through profiles and tones to find good examples of just what you’re after, and even then, you still have to plug into something - a cab, combo amp, PA, headphones, etc. e people supposed to hear the music without having the old school solutions? I can see where a TONEX and other tech can help people with limited money and space. I can see where it would be nice for gigging artists not to have to lug giant pieces of gear to venues. But overall, the TONEX is only as good as it’s examples and you’re gonna need to amplify the sound because the TONEX is essentially like a CD player without speakers. Gotta have a way to hear the profiles. Amps aren’t going anywhere, folks. 😉 😊

From my point of view everything has “changed” as Tonex has made owning an amp profiler affordable. That’s the point for me

Different generations want different gear.. I was lucky enough to buy a Engl E650 when I was 18 so I could play live and practice with a 'real' tube amp. But I couldn't affort a 2200 euro Dual Rectifier... Still can't! So getting great tones at a small price is great for creativity and new guitar players to start with great gear as well... I think it's great that great tones are becoming more affordable! Sorry for my bad english ;) Cheers from the Netherlands!

I have tube amps, modelers, many pedals. I’m waiting for my Tonex pedal to come in. 150 amp captures at your feet. Looking forward to trying it out. It is great technology. I’m 61 years young. I don’t play in a band. Use what you want! It’s a great time to be a guitarist!!! Ok you have your beloved amp, cab, and fx. Hopefully you have people to help you move it around. You have to mic it up to play your gig or record it. The tonex pedal solves a lot of issues. Play any amp out there bye loading it on to your pedal via computer. Most people can’t even tell the difference if it’s a real amp or a capture. Especially in a mix most people don’t care as long as it sounds good!!! Isn’t that all that matters good tone. And having fun playing. Some people want to have a huge tube amp collection. Others want to have great tone!! There’s no right or wrong. I prefer to have all the choices I can!! I have thought about selling my amps! I don’t even use them anymore. But you always take a beating when you sell gear!!

Love your channel, lots of knowledgeable info. BTW have you heard if Messa Boogie will be making amps for Europe any time soon? As you are in the know as they say

Wow Tony spot on! People don’t stop to consider if there are no real amps around to sample, the sampling software will have nothing to feed off of. Unless in a bizarre twist of AI these machines start to cannibalize one another’s library of tones😮 lol.. I was using my laptop back in 2012 wwith an audio interface and an SM 57 with profiling software that was available back then, before the Kemper hardware really truly became a thing.

Still nothing like the touch dynamics of a good, cranked, tube amp-speaker-guitar connection, not to mention the heady scent of hot cookin' power tubes in an old amp cabinet. 😁😁

Honestly, I don't do much with ToneX. I have a JetCity JCA22h, Randall RD-5, a German hand-made SS-amp, some expensive, some chinese pedals. The problem is using this stuff when you play and record in your living room, too, not only in your home-studio upstairs. As soon as I start using IRs I consider my whole chain compromised. The world has literally run out of time. When I was young I remember changing loudspeakers, trying pedals, recording with 4-track tape devices (LOL). Now, this seems to me like an alien world. From time to time I go back to my amps, especially the RD-5 which doesn't need a load. But then I think, why not using NAM and start one of my favorite amps I never bought: The Laney GH100. And my god, it sounds and reacts so well. Yes, we will live in a world where many amps will go extinct. With those green and woke parties switching on a 100W amp will also make one hesitate in the future. Sad.

It’s not going to be the death of modelers or amps in the next decade or so, but you can certainly see the trend if you look at a larger time frame. Many younger guitar players are not as convinced in the old school belief that classic tube amps just sound better than captures or digital modelers. I think that was the case 10-15 years ago, but the difference is getting smaller and smaller every few years. And younger players I speak to in our shop don’t hear enough of a tone difference to justify the huge price difference. More and more of them are going digital. Which is a big reason that tube amp sales have been flat while capture and modeler sales have been exploding. And that has been the case even while Axe effects, Kemper, QC, etc are still almost as expensive as a tube amp anyway. So I think the hype with the ToneX is that for the first time, you can get captures from tube amps in a device that costs 1/5th the price of those other devices. That has moved the needle a lot with a big portion of our younger guitar customers. It’s not going to change big budget musicians at all, but it does seem to be having an effect on more budget conscious young guitarists. So just keep an eye on it for the next 10 years or so as some of these young bands grow up and emerge, and then we will truly know how much impact this kind of tech really has on the old school brands.

Something you didn't touch on - the amp modeller models the whole amp. A ToneX capture is just tiny snapshot of an amp at certain settings. If you deviate from that, then the sound of the original amp is gone. I don't think this has occurred to many people just yet, because they're so busy having orgasms at cloning any amp. I see them in the social media comments, they're thrilled at have snapshots of dozens and dozens of rare boutique amps. These people clearly don't write or record music because you don't use 100x amps when you make an album. You usually use 1 or 2... 3 or 4 at most. These people are just gear nuts frothing over the latest shiny thing and are more interested in collecting tones than writing and recording music. I just recorded a release with my Helix. I used an ENGL with ENGL IR's for my high gain tones, and I used a Roland Jazz Chorus running through the ENGL IR's for my cleans. Two amps. Not 100x. Two. I think modelling is here to stay, and the best route for digital amps will be hybrid units that do both. Clone an amp if you want, but have full models of actual amps. Most guitarists don't actually understand much about audio engineering and guitar tone. They already had unlimited tones with their Helix's etc, because they could use IR's which simulate mics and cabs - the biggest part of where the tone comes from.

tony..will you get the new headrush prime profiler?

I did see one other channel bring this question up. Unfortunately, I can't recall which. Here's the thing: true as it is, all it will take is for one generation to come up without the experience of having a tube amp pushing air for tube amps to disappear. Already at club shows, groups are using these modellers and profilers over actual amps. It's almost standard. There's numerous reasons - cost, chiefly - most young people can't afford an apartment, much less a tube amplifier. But also there's the question of storage. Plus, most bands don't play at the literal deafening levels we did, they don't need anything that powerful. Things change, not always for the better, but that doesn't stop it from happening

Great video Tony, I’m old school it’s always been a 100 watt tube head or a 50 watt head , through a 4x12 cabinet with pedals, Marshall and Laney are my brand I’ve always been a fan of the UK craftsmanship, a well built amp will last you a lifetime if you take care of it, My thought on these products are they are a fad , let’s hope our beloved Tube amps live on.

glowing bottles of tone forever

You’re missing the point of the ToneX , yes sure people that don’t buy amps aren’t going to start anytime soon but those of us that do have the amps is I can clone my arsenal of amps and install them in a pedal that weighs 3 pounds , play my ToneX through the loop of my Boss GT1000 (my case) or Helix , HXStomp or HXFX , put my Boss effects in front and behind the ToneX for a light weight rig . I can’t carry my JVM410H as easily as I used to and this makes it easier to take my amps with me

This is right! What do you thinking about this pedal? I want that my amps or his tones are with me in rehearsal and on gigs. I didn‘t like the sound it comes from a PA speaker after miking up. I powered up with a powerstage 170 with a real cab and I am very happy with that. But I like your aproach . Thank you Tony

I still have a couple of tube amps and love them. But I also have a Helix and I enjoy using it quite a bit. It sounds good and feels good. It’s not quite a tube amp but it works well and I don’t have to burn through tubes just playing in my basement. My 5150 head costs about $500 to retube now. I’ll always have a tube amp but I like modellers too.

I think it’s gonna be like that = - amp modelers claiming to «sound like » real amp will die or offer some neural network profiling like ToneX or NAM (the Rolex of machine learning today) - high end modelers will offer «perfect virtual amps » which will differs from classic ones and offer « unlimited » tweaking and new amps nobody has heard or play before - real amp will become like sport cars. Some passionate rich dudes will collect them and pay a lot for a fewer production ones, and capture modelers brand will buy them also to sample them like IK multimedia already does.

Amp modelers are not killing amps because we use amps to play them through! We use them in conjunction. The difference is Tonex is affordable where as a Kemper/Quad/Axe FX is much more expensive. I think if anything amp heads will be less expenseive in tomorrows market but the cabs will still always be needed for live use. Id like to play a show where we can all use the same Marshall cab and guitarists in the different bands just come along and plug in their amp modeler pedal in, rather than having to mess around change them between bands.

Absolutely subscribed Tony! Recently ending a 30-year playing hiatus, I'm laughing and entertained by what you just described! ~ now back to remembering how to plug this guitar in.

To me, modelers are like sampling synths. Very convenient for live performance but doesn't have the mojo of the real thing. People tend to judge value based on cost. Tell me this. Each time a new modeler comes out, people say "It's so much better than it was before. You can't tell the difference." However, I don't hear them saying it's better than the amps that they model?

I think an option is Bluguitar Amp 1, (and similars) I have one, is really good. Now I´m modeling it, so when I record at home I don´t mess with cables anymore. Have you tried those amps? Regards.

Tube amps aren't going anywhere. Looking forward to your Marshall video, best amp and cabinet I have and its no clone!

So, what DO you like, Tony, in the way of effects and amps?

There’s a place for both. People will continue to purchase modelers for the convenience and affordability factor. People will purchase amps for experience they offer. Just like people will continue to both stream music and buy vinyl as well.

I think amp modellers, etc. are very convenient and good to record in a DAW. No need to mess with micing up and all that. They are also good for bedroom players who can play thru headphones. The real tube amps are more for serious users and professional musicians and studios They all have their place

I agree. You cannot trust RU-vid influencers when it comes to gear. Look at the early Quad Kotex hype. Over promised, under delivered.

Just been having this conversation with my wife. But the flipside is that we have a depletion of raw resource. AI and tech in general will preserve the sounds and in the future, no doubt we will be making sims from sims, a bit like a star trek transporter. Henry Ford would probably have a few comments about electric cars! I'm in my 50s, been playing Orange and Marshalls since I was 14. It's sad to see so much history, science, manufacturing and technical skills being replaced. However, I've played the OR virtual amp in Tonex and it is every bit my old RV50MKI. There is a revolution and like it or not, we have to accept. Rather now than later before we run out of the raw materials and have nothing to play. I guess we are at the cusp of entering into a frenzy of tech development that is going to impact on every aspect of consumerism. Welcome to the future, but not necessarily the one we hoped for.

Tony, A.I. is the future. We will eventually be at a place where a product in a way not far away from what Sound Hound does will analyse a guitar tone from an audio file and boom it will give you David Gilmour's tone from the comfortably numb solo. In the same way it will give you any classic or other guitar tone that you have ever heard. The amps will no longer be needed as their tones have already been recorded in countless recording studios. It is not a matter of if but of when. Will it happen in our life times? Your guess if as good as mine. Tonex is just the tip of a very large iceburg. But the future is coming and for me it cannot come soon enough!

I wouldn’t fret (lol). This product just made stuff available to people that may have previously not been able to afford some of the equipment. Tube amps are great, Helix are awesome, Fractal, Neural, yadda yadda. This is a product for people like me that wanted a little more than what the Walrus ACS1 or the Strymon Iridium offer for our $$$. IK didn’t launch some preemptive strike or trash talk anyone or any company as far as I know. Unfortunately, I’m getting the same vibes as the in the car world. You got a bunch of folks driving their Porsche and Maserati stuff and hate that anybody found joy in something that they didn’t have to get a loan for. “You think they’re behind you but they’re ‘bout to lap you.” -J. Santana

The Tonex is ok. That’s as far as I am prepared to say after using one for the last few days. It doesn’t inspire me to go back to it though, in fact, I have decided to send mine back. A few reasons. Firstly, I a/b’d the Tonex against my Dream 65 pedal. Some of the tones were pretty close to be fair but the Tonex doesn’t have Dream’s reverb. The amp is called a Deluxe reverb for a reason, and UAD’s sounds awesome. Secondly, I ran a few pedals into both units. The Dream did remarkably well at keeping the feel, the Tonex just felt compressed, didn’t handle the dynamics of output volume changes from the pedals. Thirdly, I like to tweak on the fly when recording guitars but felt that the Tonex eq just wasn’t that great. More importantly, when changing the gain on the Dream you hear what you expect to hear, as you would with the amp. Changing the drive on the Tonex just doesn’t give you these subtle characteristics of the amp, and how could it? It doesn’t know what they are. If anything, I would say that amp profiling has had its day because this is what it is and always will be. Modelling software on the other hand will continue to get better and better. So, in summary, Tonex will get you some decent tones but it isn’t close to the complexity and just pure joy of a decent valve amp. I think the market for Tonex probably includes a fair few players who have never used a decent valve amp. For those that have, it ain’t even close.

What’s dead are taking Marshall stacks onstage. With the era of silent stages becoming the norm, regular amps are being forced out for some of us that play live.

The capture tech being more prevalent is cool too see, it does not mean modelers are dead (profiles and models are not the same thing), people are never going to stop buying tube amps, people with money are most definitely not going to stop buying tube amps ever, This is just more of the same, but more is better so thumbs up to that. It's great, as the consumer, to have so many choices.

I think in general the amps will eventually sell less overtime. And it's not just because of the profilers. The profilers can only sell when they have something to profile. Modelers... In general the modelers try to emulate something that is on the market, but there were some attenpts to model out a sound that isn't based on a real amp. What will definitely hit the amp sells are the daw plugins. I don't know how many amps are sold to bedroom guitarists, but for sure that public will gravitate towards plugins. Unlike a tonex, you can actually steal a plugin, like any other piece of software. I mean of course you could steal a tonex u it from the store, but that probably would not go without notice. Now stealing a piece of software is waay waay easier. And you can be 100% sure, that among the population of bedroom guitarists, that will be the way to resolve their lack of amp problem. What it means is that amp manufacturers will focus on actual musicians more. And on that topic, lets be real, a person who can afford a tonex, was never a target of manufacturers like soldano or bogner or diezel. Only the really big names in the business were carrying these to the shows. Rest of the bands just used them in the studio. The guys who will take a hit are for sure marshall, bugera, fender cause they have a quite big portfolio for bedroom guitarists. I can only guess they will just shift production to make frfr speakers, cause at some point the bedroom players will want to play a gig or two, and they will have to amplify the signal from the profiler or the modeler. What is definitely good about profiling devices is that if you can do a good profile of an rare amp that you have in your collection, then you can take that sound into the concert venue. The morr profiesional guys already did that with kemper. So if the audience can hear a sound they could listen to on the LP, i guess that is a win win situation The audience listens to better audio, the musician does not have to carry an expensive rare piece of gear.

I believe as long as there are guitar players who want tube amps, there will be tube amps regardless of whatever non-tube wannabes there are. You're the man with the tell like it is, no bullshit plan Tony! Keep up the outstandingly, exceptiona andl excellent work!

I have a room full of tube amps..and I love them..but it occurred to me awhile back,that EVERY guitar tone we have ever heard,is NOT an amp in the room flapping your pants legs,it a mic’ed up amp/cab,in another room,monitored by FRFR speakers…It’s a different thing entirely than blasting a Marshall thru a 4x12 in the room…it’s that sound filtered thru a microphone…I think both have a place,and they always will….I use both,depending on what my needs are….

The only difference between the Tonex and the QC or Kemper is that they made it so you can separate the capture from the usage and performance, so you can travel with it more easily and you use your computer for the processing part of the capture rather than the device itself. In reality this video is 5 years late.

Modelers and profilers are great for Making recording easy and accessible. But some of the coolest recordings turn out great because of the limited gear. Turn the knobs on the guitar/amp, use the pickup selector. The more complicated the gear. The more time I take endlessly obsessing over tone. A real amp and cab/ some effects. It’s plug and play and I get to do what I love, play the damn guitar

I think where this gets interesting is serious bands wanting to record with real amps but tour with modelers. They are easy to set up and less finicky than the rigs of old. Metallica, for example, uses AxeFX III now for live shows (as do a lot of other touring acts). They record with the Boogies but found the Fractals far easier for Road Life and you'd never know live. Now you compound this with hobbyists, like myself, using a fractal and not buying new amps (Although that is more due to keeping the wife happy). Demand will drop for $2k+ tube amps and some manufacturers will not survive. I still think there is a strong base for them but we will see the market retract overall for tube amps.

The thing I am watching is KEMPERS and Line 6 response both are different type one photo captures/profiles, and line 6 a modeller type. Obiviously the bigger assault is toward kemper, who has more or less sat still for more than 10 years, at a high price point. It will be interesting the next year at least. I think Tonex fell short not being able to have a unit with all the Amplitube 5 capabilities, no effects built in, no compatibility with Amplitube to the Tonex Pedal. So we will see.

Is this a game changer? It all depends if AI and the robots prefer tube amps vs digital ?

Good video - all ages of technology are reflections of the needs and desires of their time - it would be a sad world if we banish our memories.

One serious problem is: tube amps have gotten astronomically expensive over the years. For one reason on top of another, the price keeps going up. I bought an original USA-made Peavey 5150 back in the 90's from a local music store for $750. It was brand new. Today, an EVH Stealth 100watt costs $2,400 in the USA. And the damn thing is made in Mexico! Inflation is part of it, but not all of it. Guitar players are always looking for alternatives. The AxeFX-III is super expensive as well. And it's not even an "amp"! It won't drive a 4x12 cab. It's a "pre-amp". We need to start getting away from tubes. The Boss Katana Artist head is a great choice. I also like the Orange Super Crush 100. Leave the tube amps in the recording studios, and RENT them. If you just play at home... stay away from tube amps. Not worth it.

The beauty of this is that it makes it cheaper to get a taste of expensive boutique amps to those with a tight budget. The other usefulness is that it makes touring way easier with a smaller footprint. Will this replace tube amps? IDK but at least in a live gig setting you are gonna start seeing less real amps and more digital rigs.

I've just come back from the 2023 Dart Music Festival. Mainly an original music festival with a few "party/covers" bands for later in the evening on the main stage. The festival takes over Dartmouth and uses several venues. Over the three days I saw 20+ acts. I asked my non-musician wife which acts had the best guitar tones. She has no idea about the technology, just what sounds she could hear that she liked. This included one or two acts she didn't enjoy but thought the guitars sounded good. The amps behind the sounds she liked and noticed the best were... Tone King Imperial, Marshall 3-channel something-or--other, Vox AC30, Boss Cube. There was a great covers band kicking off the first day and "getting the event started". Their (excellent) guitarist was using a Kemper. Very flexible, but the requirement to sound like the recorded guitar sounds made it a bit sterile. There was also a young originals band who were very slick and tight. The bass player and rhythm guitarist were using Kempers. The lead guitarist was the Marshall user my wife noticed and liked. None of the acts I watched were using modellers. That surprised me. I made a point of walking to the stage front to look at peoples pedalboards. Almost all individual pedals, analogue or digital, but I didn't spot a digital MFX anywhere. I own a GT-1000 (I've owned several modellers, and this is my favourite so far) and it does the job in the right circumstances, but I don't enjoy using it and it doesn't inspire me when I sit down to noodle away or write something. That's when I turn on a valve amp. People who've never played a valve amp or learned to dial in their own tones won't be able to miss what they've never had. Ignorance is truly bliss.

I occasionally get a pretty fair tone I think. I've never been able to get it without an amp and I've tried.

I have a Kemper Profiler Rack and an Axe-Fx III, but the most fun is to play a good tube amp with a great pedalboard.

A few will still make the amps, but respectefuly we do not need more amps being built in mass, we just need people to profile what already exists In fact, I've created over 300 profiles with ToneX both with boutique real world gear and also with virtual amps - with IRs and simulations of IRs. Therefore a physical amp isn't even techincally needed for the "profile" tech in a pedal to be relevant. There are plenty of guitar amps out there for those that want them, a tube amp isn't something that just dies and goes into a landfill after 5 years. There is a reason why amps from the 60s (yes, SIXTY YEARS OLD) are still being used, bought, sold, and profiled. The tech is built to last. We just need a good "play back system" there is a reason why people playing tiny venues still use tube amps as the PA systems can be garbage. But if you step up to real venues - suddenly the sytem is good enough. The point about TONEX you are missing - is the tech is finally good enough and affordable enough that buying an amp instead doesn't make sense for the majority - people are playing at home where they can't crank a tube amp, actually care about their hearing, etc. The "capture tech" of 2010 didn't change everything becuase it cost $2K to get the device plus more money to get either the gear to profile or to buy other peoples gear. With ToneX, you don't even need the computer. A free version with a $100 interface and you have the same tone, it is crazy. And you spend $300-400 on the pedal you have something you can literally gig with or take to a recording studio. The days of 100 Watt amps are for the most part over except for a very small portion of players.

I think the future modellers will all include the ability to sample as well. Tube amps may get less and less common as solid state amps take over, but amps and modellers will exist together for some time. What will disappear are products like Tonex that only sample. Tonex will transform into a hardware modeller pedal that can also perform tone capture just like all the others will eventually do.

Tony, I have to disagree. I honestly thinks it changes the landscape, thats for sure, but does not replace valve amps. They are gonna replace the cheap crap that all these companies put out for loads of money like the Marshall MGs, the Line 6 spiders and so on. But, just like the Joyo Bantamps (amazing sounding amps and loud enough for 90% of the gigs out there), the Tiny Terrors and the Marshall DSL didnt ruing the whole premium valve amp market. They are not aimed at the same players. Touring musicians do like having the convenience of tone matching and carrying something that weights 500g and not 20kgs. Beginners like to have access to great sounds without breaking the bank (and they had it before the modelers with the plugins and scarlets 2i2, the irigs and bias fx). Still, you need the real ones to create new sounds, studio guys prefer having the real ones most of the time. In fact, I would argue they are good for business. Having a good sound inspire you to play, it makes you feel better because it sounds pleasant, that leads to practice, that leads to love for music and, ergo, fancy and overpriced guitar amps - which I own a couple, and a ToneX. Just like affordable and great guitars did not ruin the vintage guitars market, even though a lot of modern guitars do sound and intonate way better than older instruments, having great sounding affordable gear is not gonna take the big ones out of business, actually its gonna put more people in love with music, and guitars, and lead them down the rabbit hole. My students can all play with the toneX, its right here, it sounds great... but they always prefer the JVM410. Do they know how to twist the knobs, set the gain, or do they even get to play with anything past lvl 1 on the master? No. Yet, they still want it. Its not a rational thing, having a modeler is a practical solution for practical problems. It is good for people to have good tone at affordable prices, it is good for touring and not breaking your back. Still, we buy the fancy heads, the 412s, we have 5 or 6 amp heads and we still buy the 7th, 8th. We have loads of guitars and we buy more, that will be played once every blue moon, we have a drop tunning pedal, and we still have guitars in different tunings. We buy overdrive pedals just because they are red instead of green. So, dont worry, the amp market is safe, more than that, its gonna do great, there are a lot more guitar players and people exploring the guitar around than in the early 2000s. There are guitar brands, higher quality instruments, PRS SEs, Ibanez Genesis, and every other day a new guitar brand putting impressive stuff out. And people still buy their Gibson's (even when they have the same headstock problems since forever). Things are gonna be great.

Great content Tony, and here's my take. I love pedals and enjoy integrating pedals and processors for fun. As long as you apply MOORE's law you can generally wait it out and save a great deal of money, and have the massive library of sounds from online content and updates. I don't have the time to chase every possible tone and combinations so I'll let the professional take that role and just enjoy playing. Keep the videos coming!

Spot on, I use modellers as it suits my needs the best but there's a place for everything tube amps to axe fx to tonex. I'll never get guitarists who think every new product has killed everything else.

I'm still old school. Love that we've come so far but there isn't a single product yet that can touch the real thing. In the end it's getting harder to the difference in a mix but I can feel the difference and there's a joy in playing the real thing. Just like virtual synths. I still have all of my vintage amps and love them, re-tube them, tune them up, modify them and cherish what works of art they are.

I ordered this pedal. But not to replace my amps. After all your review of the 5150iii 50w stealth helped convince me to buy it. I've played with a few modeling software captures and some cab IRs, but they're not the same as the heads and 2x12 in my garage. They are a lot easier to record with, for me and my budget. But I am also a drummer first and foremost and the guitarists who actually show up to studios and shows have tube amps, the home studio solo producers will be the ones exclusively playing modelers and profilers. You can't IR a 4x12 through headphones or monitor speakers and experience 4x12 tone. You can't capture the full range of an amp in a profile, just the range where it's knobs are profiled. But you can get a taste for yourself of what a Diezel VH4 or a vintage JMP can do dialed in which is pretty neat.

100% agreed. I have a Headrush modeller and 3 tube amps and I still spend a lot more time playing my tube amps. As close as people say the modellers and profilers are to the real amps, I can hear a difference.

Just curious do you still use one of the following? Polaroid Typewriter Floppy disks VHS Carphone Pager

Missed your video's Tony. Hope your well mate. Straight to the point and I agree. I went 100% digital and never looked back. All the best from the Lake District 😊😊👍👍👍👍

Ya shame on you GLEN AND KYLE SORRY JUST CALLING THEM OUT !

I think this pedal is for live gigs where its very hard to carry a marshall fullstack. I'm a tube amp guy, but this pedal + good pedalboard does the job in live gigs or silent recording in apartment. Tube amps are unbeatable and these kind of units cannot replace the real deal amps :)

I consider buying a ToneX to capture my tube amps. No more lifting an AC30 around for gigs. In the Studio I'll prefer the "real deal", because the ToneX will only capture one specific setting at once. I can fiddle with the amp settings in the studio, and when I'm happy with it, I'll capture it to reproduce that specific sound live. Just get the best of both worlds, instead of continuing to break your back lifting these heavy amps.

I bought real amps for my studio, and Tonex for profiling MY amps for touring. The thing is, when you create a profile, you create a snapshot of ONE setting of the whole chain. Can't fiddle around with it the same way it would react in the real world. When you have a profiler, you (or somebody else) still NEED a real amp to create the profile. It doesn't kill the industry, just changes the ratios a bit

You make a great point Tony. Here is what will happen, in 20 years the Tonex will be a piece of digital history that we will laugh at how primitive it was. The same way we look at the first Line 6 Pod. Lotsa nostalgia

I got suckered into the "modelers" as a beginner guitarist. I wanted 100 presets and 100s of effects. In the long run I sold it off and bought a DSL100 and a Triple Rectifier, along with three cabinets. Best decision. If everybody has the same modeler, and presets, you will sound like everyone else. I also hate fiddling with software. Great video!

People on RU-vid and on forums have said similar things when the Kemper first came out.. but like anything that has a legacy a lineage there's always people out there that want it and want to use it.. when I was 13 years old the first amplifier that I purchased was a mid-60s blackface Fender super Reverb and I got it used in 1978 for $300.. the only thing that didn't function on it was the Reverb and since it did not have a ground plug there were times when I got shocked using it but once you turned it up to about four and it started getting loud it started sounding really good.. I've seen the same amp online for around. $3000. And the Marshall jcm 800 50 watt head and cabinet that I bought brand new in 1984 for about $1100 is now about 4 to $5000 on the used Market.. so this old technology seems to have gone up a lot in value because there's always somebody that wants it and wants to play through it. But there is a great market for amp modelers because if you're playing a lot of live shows in different venues there's always a problem with consistency of sound with tube amplifiers.. and the main reasons are differences in electricity running to the amp changes in voltage from one venue to the other and the sensitivity of bias adjustments.. so one day the bias is this and the next day after the tube amp has been knocked around and pic😢ked up Etc the tone quality keeps changing and it gets frustrating.. solid state amplifiers and amp modelers tend to be a lot more consistent night after night so a lot of people like to tour with them.. the main game changer for something like the tonex is the affordability..

I am about to buy a Tonex because I have 3 kids and money is tight. I would love to have 150 tube amps but I can't even afford one. I play at church and a tube amp in that setting is just too loud. What I see happening is the same thing I see happening with guitars. The tube amp makers will sell less and charge even more for what they do sell. These digital knockoffs will become what Squire is to Fender. People with deep pockets will continue to buy the real amps and the working class will go the cheaper digital route. I am old too and the thought of lugging a tube amp around and 4x12 cab doesn't interest me at all anymore. The major amp makers already see the writing on the wall and have started moving digital to keep the lower to mid-priced amps moving. Look at the Katana for instance. I have 2 of them I run in stereo and when talking to music stores they sell more katanas and sparks than anything now. Many of the music stores have stopped even stocking the tube amps except for the smaller affordable tube combos. Will real amps eventually make a comeback? Time will tell I guess but when I attend concerts for the last few years I see Helix and Axe FX on the floor more and more and rea amps less and less. The tones I hear out of the PA sound killer so I see why even artists with deep pockets want the simplicity and dependability of digital amps and effects. You are the first I have seen to look at the big picture and what this means for the music industry. Pandora's box has been opened and I don't see tube amps making a comeback anytime soon. Great video!

To those who rejoice that tubes amps are dead with ToneX ... what the hell are you going to capture if they are gone... use the protuberance you have on your neck people? Also, on capture is 1 tone, not a whole amp. I see it to be very useful for touring and gigging, no hassle always getting the same tone and just eq for the room and that's it. For home practice and studio, I will keep my tube and solid state amps thank you and I will complement with pc plugins and modelers. It is safe to say the market will change, but unless people really are that stupid, and I don't think they are because they will still crave that actual hardware "I own it" feeling... guitar players are like that, gear craving hoarders and that is not changing any time soon :)

Nothing beats a real amp

IM BACK!!! Can you teardown a UAFX Golden Reverb or Starlight Delay? I assume it will be much different than the Amp ones you opened up?

I really enjoy the hot take Tony. I agree with your sentiment. One thing the digital crowd have in common is that they are all chasing *Tube amp* tones. Give your money to the people who actually designed and produced the legendary tones we all love and chase.

Neural DSP all the way. It's like having all the best amps. Tired of big heavy heads and cabinets. The future is bright.

Great vid...nice to see another opinion for a change. The band Morbid Angel recorded one of their guitars solos with a glass lightbulb casing around the mic...techniques in the studio playing with REAL gear create novel music that stands the test of time. The worst thing for me is modellers and the like are killing unique music. Hendrix, Gilmour, Mudhoney, Entombed...all created unique sounds by messing with their hardware and started whole genres of music which we now strive to emulate. For an amateur bedroom player like me though modellers give freedom and chance to muck around doing different things on limited budgets (I'm using a Digitech rp500 -£50 used) does what I need it to in an okay way...means I can make psychedelic rock or slam death metal and save myself a few grand!

We're all being sold a bill of goods. Every day. I didn't even know about this bit of gear until you showed me. I don't have time to pay attention to all the crap on RU-vid that channels are trying to sell. I really believe that all the "newer gear" is trying to get in on what really sells. As far as Tube Amplifiers go. I don't expect to hear any at Live Shows in the future. Live shows have really become a joke if you ask me. And I'm not talking about a local band who is using what they have to produce music. I'm talking about mainstream music and the karaoke shows they give us these days. Used to say, put some ear plugs in. Now, each member of the audience is better off with their own personal set of headphones. I think every musician should use what makes them happy. But before they do that. They should actually find out what makes them happy, first. Not be told by some random paid promotion on RU-vid. Thanks for keeping it real, Tony! Rock on!

I want a cheap solution to have my plugin sounds on stage, this seems to be the only solution for that rn apart from playing with a computer, it s not about stealing a sound, it s about knowing what you want and being able to transport it anywhere

Hi Tony, I love your videos and hearing your take on things. Over the years I've tried various different amp technologies - I'm a sucker for a Marshall and a 4x12 (or two) hitting me in the back. That said, though, I simply cannot play these amps, at the volume they need to really open up, on gigs. I've even had issues with the volume of a 22 watt Deluxe Reverb. That actually is what led me to check out the Kemper 5 years ago. At first I hated it (I switched to in ears at the same time - never got along with those), but when I started making my own profiles, I warmed up to it considerably. Fast forward 5 years, I've used a Kemper on every gig I've played since then (roughlly 220 gigs per year). While I'll readily admit there's nothing like standing in front of a nice fat tube amp and speakers, on 90% of the gigs I play, I simply don't have that option. For the last 3 years, I've run my Kemper power Rack into a 4x12 loaded with Kemper Kone speakers. While they're technically a FRFR speaker, they definitely have a different feel to them. I recently switched to a LIne 6 Powercab 212 and the Kemper Stage. To be honest my stage sound as well as FOH have never been better. I have a nice collection of tube amps and cabs (though not quite as robust as yours...yet) and when recording here at the house, those are my go-to. For recording I use a 4-mic setup; a 57, a 421, an SE Electronics Ribbon and a JZ Mics Condenser. I do this to try and capture that 'in the room' sound to my recordings (you can hear examples of this on my Studio Tour pt 2 video) and it does kind of work for that. Last week I made a profile of my modified JCM2000 DSL100 to see how close the Kemper would come. Surprisingly it pretty much nailed the sound. Sitting in front of my studio monitors with the amp and cab in the other room, I can't tell much of a difference in either the sound or feel. Does it match the feel of sitting in front of the amp? No way. Does it match the feel of sitting in the control room playing the mic'd up amp through studio monitors? If I'm being completely honest I gotta say it's darn close. The video of that process and result are at ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-tYIx-nwybjM.html It's not perfect but on a live stage or in a mix, it'd be hard to hear the difference. As for live use, perhaps it's because I've grown used to playing in my control room through my studio monitors (HEDD Audio Type 30's) but when I'm gigging, I'm getting that tone, response and, most importantly, it does feel good. That said, I will still use my tube amps for recording, when I can. If I'm recording something late at night, I've got no problem turning to the Kemper. Another point I wanna make is it's through various modeling amps that I discovered that I really dig the sounds of certain amps and have, as a result, purchased the amps. Maybe I was living under a rock for 30 years, but I'd never played through an old Bassman, Bandmaster or even a Twin. Having used their Digital counterparts in modeling I became aware of the different little things these amps do and now have all of these Vintage amps. I sitll haven't found 'my' Plexi though I'm sure it's just around the corner. Sorry, Neighbors LOL!!!! Keep up the great work Tony!

I don’t think most people think that modellers and tube amps are the same things. They serve different purposes and have their respective strengths. The reality is that carrying big amps around is a pain in the ass and products like this fix that problem

Hey Tone. Am I the only bloke that's noticed how the peeps who tell you it's great having 'x' number of virtual amps in one box, are the same people who instead of having a basement full of amps, now have a basement full of amp modellers - instead of a load of 'boxes' that make different sounds, a load of boxes that all sound the same?

Great video, I bought the ToneX and have had a number of other "amps" in a box of some type for decades. Why, I like trying new gear. Things to remember with a one of these 1. if you play metal you'll have a stronger positive opinion regarding these devices because the do the power cord tone ok, they do the stepdown tuning ok, and the detorted thing ok. Where there is a utter fail is with anything in a clean tone. UA 65 Dream pedal was close, but is only about 60% of the real tone. One thing that tube guys like myself have to realize is that "sim/ir's/apps players are going for a "recorded" tone from their guitar that they can repeat over and over with consistency. What you miss when you fully accept that "recorded" mono tone is that tube amps push the air, you can feel the sound, and some refer to it as the tubes "breathing". I have really tried giving this digital thing a good go, but man they really need to address the clean tones. Lastly, it may not happen today or tomorrow, but if you use software "ANYWHERE in the chain to drive tone at some point you WILL run into latency issues, you just will and btw debugging latency issues can really suck.

As an old school metal player, when I started playing as a teenager, it was always the dream to have a real tube amp, but who could afford that as a teenager? As an adult I’ve played/owned them for years. While I do use amp sims, & I do have an AxeFx 3, I also have an EVH 5150 III & a Marshall cab. To me they are great for different things. I love modeling/profiling for recording. I think IRs are one of the best things ever invented for recording! BUT…that is of a guitar amp sound that is mic’d up. That does not replace the amp in a room sound. I like them both for different reasons. I really like the sound of a real amp into a 4x12 cab when I just jam to have fun. I always do that for practice or just playing. I use the axefx 3 is what I use to record with, as a tool, but I have fun with my real amps. That’s kind of how it is for me

The real moment when everything changes will be when some AI creates a model from scratch that sounds and plays better than any actual amp. It may look at all of the tube models and create something that is tubier than an actual tube can be. The tones that are produced by a tube are limited by the physics of our universe. For instance, a model with moments of absolute silence between each note of a super chunky riff, while having sustain of biblical proportions with feedback that plays as if it is reading your mind. You are correct in saying that there needs to be a source for the AI to work with. However, Chat GPT can generate code to satisfy requirements given to it in plain English. But it is just leveraging code patterns that humans have written.

I'd be interested to know how many £2000 AxeFX rigs and Kempers are polished and admired each day, never to leave the house and will certainly never see any live action! In truth many full time working musicians can't afford all that stuff, especially these days when promoters expect bands to play for peanuts. It's both ironic and incredibly sad how all those rack-mounted, rack-cased, roadworthy modellers are owned by hobbyists to be played in their bedrooms 😔

Tonex, or any other new modelling or capture technology, will not make the tube amps go away. But amps are expensive, they take up lots of room, they're loud, and they're expensive to maintain. I love the idea of a great example of a plexi or a deluxe with some really good pedals. But, it also feels a bit elitist to have an attitude where good tone has to come from some combination of expensive gear. Tonex, or a hx stomp, or an audio interface, paired with studio monitors or some headphones is more affordable for many people, and opens up lots more music-making opportunities than a more traditional rig. The Neural Amp Modeller plugin by Steve Atkinson actually offers capture tech for free. I love amps, but I also like democratising the music-making process.