*Systems Covered:* - Intro [0:00] 1. Contact Point Mirror Kick [0:30] 2. Midpoint Parallel Shift Kick [2:35] 3. 2-to-1 Rolling Kick [3:59] 4. Rolling Kick Speed Adjustments [6:20] 5. Visual Equal-Distance Kick [7:37] 6. Mirror Kick [9:31] 7. Banks Using Kicking Systems [10:35] 8. 1/3-More-than-Twice Sliding Bank [11:07] 9. Plus System Kick [14:17] 10. Corner-5 System Kick [15:58] - Wrap-Up [18:32] *CORRECTION:* At 3m23s, the spin diagram should show top right (running) spin, not top left (reverse). Sorry about that. *Supporting Resources:* 1. Contact Point Mirror Kick: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/contact-point-mirror/ 2. Midpoint Parallel Shift Kick: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/midpoint/ 3. 2-to-1 Rolling Kick: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/two-to-one/ 4. Rolling Kick Speed Adjustments: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/two-to-one/ 5. Visual Equal-Distance Kick: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/mirror/ 6. Mirror Kick: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/mirror/ 7. Banks Using Kicking Systems: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/two-to-one/ 8. 1/3-More-than-Twice Sliding Bank: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/fast-system/ 9. Plus System Kick: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/plus/ 10. Corner-5 System Kick: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/corner-5/ - bank and kick shot aiming systems resource page: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/ - bank and kick shot effects and factors to consider: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/effects/ - “Spot on the Wall” System: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/spot-on-wall/ - why Diamond tables bank short, and how to adjust: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/Diamond/ *Recommended Videos* (full-length instructional videos dealing with bank and kick shot aiming systems): - Vol. III of How to Aim Pool Shots (HAPS): drdavebilliards.com/aiming/disc-iii/ - Vol. IV of the Video Encyclopedia of Pool Shots (VEPS): drdavebilliards.com/veps/disc-iv/ - Vol. IV of the Video Encyclopedia of Pool Practice (VEPP): drdavebilliards.com/vepp/disc-iv/
This channel (along with a few others) has made me be able to nearly run out 9 ball racks in just 6 months of playing. Thank you for everything you do for the pool community.
Agreed. People with tables at home are most certainly blessed. For those who don't have tables, here are some ideas for things you can do to "work on" your game: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/advice/practicing-with-no-table/
For midpoint parallel shift method, the reason for less running spin when the line is closer to the rail is because the CB gets more running spin just because of it rubbing along the rail?
Is that a Snooker 12x6 or Bigfoot 10x5? That table looks waaayyyy bigger and tighter than standard pro 9x4.5 and 4.25 inch pockets. I wish I could try that table out.
No. It is a standard 9' pool table (Olhausen brand). The pockets are actually big but they play tighter than they look due to the facing angles and deep shelf.
@DrDaveBilliards, what 1 rail system has the most accurate results, and less chance for human error? I currently do the 5. Visual Equal distance kick with ok results, but it's sometimes difficult to see if the angles are equal. Do you think the 6. Mirror kick is the best?
I know this is an old video but I have a question about the 2-1 system. You said that at about the 6-3 ratio and above the system begins to break down. I was wondering if that applies to all size tables, I mostly play on bar box. Thanks for your work, Dr. Dave!
This is fantastic, thank you. Do have any advice on sequencing the incorporation of these systems? For example, if you are a beginner/intermediate player, and have only played these shots more on instinct or just some basic diamond counting, would you work on progressing through these in any particular order?
I recommend learning them in the order presented in this video. Although, I now recommend the "twice plus tenths" system instead of the "1/3 more than twice" system: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/twice-plus-tenths/
Question: in the 2 to 1 rolling kick system, does the cue ball start to go long at around 6-3 because it is picking up SIT from it's angled friction against the rail?
No. It is because the system is just an approximation; and at larger angles, the topspin that remains on the ball after rebound curves the ball forward more than the system predicts at larger angles.
Ok guys, ive looked until im blue in the face. Im looking for a particular Dr Dave video in whicj he teaches an aiming trick for a kick. It has something to do with using your cue to measure the distance from the object ball to the rail, then placing your fingers on the cue where it meets the rail and backing up until the tip of the cue is at the felt line on the rail. He then uses his thumb from the back end of the cue in order to see where the cue ball needs to touch on the rail in order to make said shot or kick. Anybody got any ideas? Thanks.
Hi Dave.... I have a suggestion for your plus system. The credit goes to Jennifer Berreta. When the cue ball is in between numbers, find the nearest track and find a spot on the wall on that track. The spot on the wall will make up for the cue ball starting point being off track.
Thank you for sharing the tip. The "spot on the wall system" is a good alternative, especially if the wall is the right distance from the table. For more info, see: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/spot-on-wall/
Great stuff Dr. Dave. Does gearing running english help when shooting the bank shots? I noticed that the follow english tends to scratch a bit in these examples.
Thanks. I'm glad you liked it. Gearing outside spin is very helpful with banks so they come off the cushion true. For more info and demos, see: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/sidespin/outside-gearing/ billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/cut-induced-spin/
The best system to use depends on the shot. There is no one system that works well for all kicks and banks. Some of the systems are "visual" and fast and don't require any "math." For more info and demos, see the videos and info under the systems of interest here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/
Full power is never used with reliable bank and kick shots, but the Plus System and Corner-5 System are useful for aiming multiple-cushion kicks. See those and other systems here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/
Don't waste your money on what? This video and all the info and videos available at the links in the video description are free. And with practice, the systems do work.
Sidespin should not be used with 1-rail kicks unless there is something in the way of the natural kicking angle. Running spin is almost always recommended with 2 and 3-rail kicks. For more information, see the different systems here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/ and the information examples dealing with sidespin in this video: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-6-vNQwD5WDw.html
FYI, longer explanations and detailed demonstrations can be found for each topic via the links in the video description and pinned comment. It might also help to watch the video a few times. There is a lot of content there.
@DrDaveBilliards When using the visual kick systems. Rather than aiming for the object ball, could you instead aim for a ghost ball next to the object ball? That way you could try to direct the kick towards a pocket.
Definitely. That's what I am doing at the 9:40 point. I also do that with lots of examples in many of the videos for the different systems here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/ The "target" is always the desired "ghost-ball" position. Often it is desired to shoot for a square hit (in which case the OB can be used as the "target").
I’m noticing that some pool tables because of wear, cloth, I don’t know, seem to change the angles some. Someone mentioned testing a table you are unfamiliar with to see if one has to adjust for the peculiarities of a particular table?
Yep. See the videos and info here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/testing/ Humidity and temperature also affect kicks and banks. See: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/table/humidity-effects/
Dr Dave, thank you so much for these excellent instructional videos. Being a beginner/novice pool player, I never realized or was aware that the diamond markings on the pool table rails had significance when calculating bank and kick shots in pool. All of your banking methods in this video are amazing…again, thank you, once again…damnation…the things you know…amazing! (Believe it or not I thought the diamonds were strictly for decoration…yes I know it probably appears foolish to say this…but I guess it demonstrates by neophyte pool knowledge!)
The diamonds are also for “decoration,” but their main purpose is for kick/bank aim assistance. I’m glad you like my stuff. BTW, as a beginner, you might find the resources here useful: billiards.colostate.edu/beginner-help/
@@DrDaveBilliards Thank you, sir…I’ll check it out ; I have watched many of your videos on proper stroke techniques, 10 ways to use a cue, etc…all have helped me immensely. I truly feel like I am pool’s version of Helen Keller and you are Ann Sullivan…a whole new pool world has been opened up to me from my former pool darkness.
@@DrDaveBilliards Dividing the angle evenly. I noticed the point of inflection was equal to the deflection of the ball when successfully pocketing the ball while I was practicing with the dimond system.
From my online glossary at billiards.colostate.edu/glossary/ rail groove: an imaginary line parallel to the rail where the base of a ball sits when it is frozen to the cushion. It is sometimes visible on a worn table.
I use every one of those plus Tor Lowry's methods as well. People that only use one of these systems usually become befuddled when faced with different kicking situations. I try to reinforce the importance of knowing all that you can when players ask me how I'm able to kick and bank so well. Ty for the content Dr. Dave!!!!
Would this work on an English pool table (6” x 4”)? In the uk American pool per hour is very expensive so I have had to change to small table and play for a team to get free play. Great videos 👍
@DrDaveBilliards In your personal experience, which visual system is the easiest to visualize accurately, the mirror kick or the equal distance kick? Or does it depend on the situation? I'm guessing the mirror system gets hard when both balls are far from the cushion.
For 1-rail kicks, I use the "visual equal distance/angle" system when the angle isn't very large and the "mirror system" when the angle is large, regardless of how far the CB and OB are from the cushions.
Nice video! It would be nice if you could elaborate a bit in a future video on banking when you need to cut the ball. In most of your examples the object ball is hit quite fully. In my experience the “cut induced spin” has a fairly large effect on the bank angle and needs to be compensated for for instance with “gearing english” as you call it. You could perhaps also elaborate on the transferred spin effect on banks, since that is quite large. You see a lot of that in one pocket matches. Thanks again for your great videos!
Well thanks a hell of a lot! I already knew about most of these but now my apponents will know as well and I won't win as much! Just kidding. I love your videos and have learned so much from you. Looking forward to anything you put out!
Would very much like to see you do a video on how to level a pool table. Your videos are.so very well done, I’m sure many of us would greatly benefit as we do from all your pool playing videos and technical proofs.
Lots of awesome & detailed information - thank you! I'll have to watch this many times as it's so rich with info. I love how you cover heaps of different situations. When you (personally) play pool, do you actually use these systems, or are you so used to it that you just know where to shoot based on years of built up experience?
You're welcome. For even more info, see the links in the video description above. I most definitely use all of these systems when playing. Sometimes my intuition is decent, but I usually do better when I trust the system aims.
for the contact mirror point system. Option 1. mirror line must be half the diameter of the ball from the rail coz you are aiming from the center of the cueball or Option 2. mirror line on the rail but less the diameter of the ball for the mirrored distance. Edit: it also applies not just when the object ball is a ball apart from the rail. as long as you adjust your mirror line half the diameter of the ball OR adjust your mirrored distance less the diameter if you use the rail as your mirror line.
@@DrDaveBilliards thanks for the link dave. i have looked into it. the reason you are slow rolling the CB and sometimes adding side spin was to compensate for the additional angle you create when you do not use the ideal mirror line. although the ideal mirror line is not so ideal given that the bounce is not perfectly elastic due to its coefficient of restitution properties, friction of the cloth and etc. its effect at a shorter distance is negligible. I do commend the emperical way you use to simplify your approach by adjusting the deflection through speed control and adding spins to it.
Man, such great videos. I know you have done A LOT on stroke, but I have never seen one that has ways to fix a crooked stroke. Meaning, the pendulum swing of my arm wags the cue left/right all the way through the stroke. I liked your mirror idea to look at your stroke, but I just couldn't figure out where the problem was, feet/body/shoulder/head/elbow/hand. A comfortable stance/set position that creates a straight stroke seems elusive.
FYI, I have several videos that help with stance here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stance/advice/ I also have several videos and other resources that might help you with your stroke here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stroke/technique/ Check them out, and good luck.
Thanks@@DrDaveBilliards Ive seen a lot of your material on stroke and stance. I just haven't seen anything that addresses my particular issue of wagging the cue through the stroke. I think at this point I just need to get an instructor.
Demonstrate Efren’s four rail table wrap corner bank. Spin transfer is required for consistent success. Trying to learn or do it without the spin transfer is counterproductive to gaining skill and an acumen in performing the shot. Same for the two rail shot down to the diagonal corner. A good shot to practice is the three rails in the side shots starting into a side rail and the shot starting into the end rail. Two rails into the side is good as well, because the pocket opening is a small window for these shots and raises bank placement skill level. One rail shots to the side from the end rail are also great learning tools for getting to know how much spin rail contact imparts on the object ball. As the incident angle opens up the amount of spin passed from the nose of the rail to the ball increases.
Dave, when you have time, I would like to see some shots set up using just methods 2, and 9. Method 2 - Midpoint Parallel Shift Kick appeals to me for its simple visual application. I have been pretty good at visualizing my banks, and this is more intuitive. So, if I understand what I have watched, to apply Method 2 to the first setup you use in Method 9(timestamp 14:52), I would find the midpoint between the cue ball and the 8-ball in the corner. I am guessing, but the cue ball looks to be about 1.5 diamonds down the rail, and the 8-ball is in the pocket, so the midpoint would be at about 4.75 diamonds down. Looking at the lines you have overlayed on the video, locating that midpoint, and then targeting the corner, it appears the shift would coincide with Method 9. Having said all that, it would be great to actually see the two systems used on the exact same setup, adjusting for ball speed, spin, etc. Thanks!
@@DrDaveBilliards I have watched about every video you have uploaded. I was just citing the fact that you will have one ball layout for one type of kick and another layout for a different type of kick, when both kick methods could be applied to the same layout. So, if you have a ball layout that you use several different kick methods, then it is easier for a viewer like myself to try them both, as you demonstrate in a video, and determine which one I am more comfortable or have greater success with. Thanks for the quick reply though. Not trying to create more work for you, just planting a seed in the back of your mind so that if you do another video down the road, you may consider this as a possible suggestion.
I'm fine. I've just been busy with other things. I'll start posting videos again soon. In the meantime, I already have over 400 videos posted, so there is a lot you can check out. My playlists here can be helpful: ru-vid.complaylists
@@johnandersonsilva8825 The visual “equal distance” and “mirror system” work for any CB and OB positions. Check them out: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/mirror/
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I hope it helps. Although, fundamentals, ball pocketing, and CB control are much more important for successful 8-ball play. Good videos on these topics can be found here: billiards.colostate.edu/tutorial/fundamentals/ billiards.colostate.edu/tutorial/how-to-aim/ billiards.colostate.edu/tutorial/cue-ball-control/
@@DrDaveBilliards yes that is true but I've been playing since childhood so aiming and 1,2 rail position is easy for me now thanks to your tutorials (and some others) which I've been following since many years. Although I'm out of touch these days so some positional practice is needed. But now only thing which remains after these kick and bank techniques are jumps and perfect masses which I will start practicing soon (after this tournament) . Thanks for the links though I will check them out again soon.
@@DrDaveBilliards although I wasted a lot of my time in my early and later years too trying to learn snooker rather than sticking to and mastering pool. Then I took up music, and 3d modelling and some other things lol. What a mess. But finally I understand things now.
@DrDaveBilliards Thanks for your answers to my questions. I was wondering when you started learning pool? It seems that, like me, you think about the game like someone who started learning as an adult; using conscious rules and systems rather than primarily instinct. On the other hand you're a pretty damn good player!
You’re welcome. I played socially my whole life but didn’t really get serious about the game until the late 1990s and early 2000s. For more info, see: billiards.colostate.edu/dr-dave/interview/
@@DrDaveBilliards Thanks I will definitely check that out. I started learning as an adult, and I would say that I have absolutely 0 instincts for pool and have done absolutely everything wrong that can be done wrong. However I have an engineering/science background and I'm treating pool like a multi-variate optimisation problem, slowly honing the absolute most basic fundamentals that most prodigies would take for granted. For example I spent a year just trying to get my head position right. It turned out that I wasn't turning my head enough to get my eyes square-on the shot. Recently I also made a breakthrough with my cue action. I worked out that I can very accurately optimize my wrist alignment by concentrating on the exact spot where the bottom of the cue rests against my fingers. In my case, the optimal spot is in the crease of the first kuckle. My action has suddenly become a lot more solid.
Great video although a little mathematical for my dim witted brain. But I'll watch and watch till I get it and also use the links to help with any needed clarity.
Not everybody likes numbers. That's why I included the "visual systems" (equal distance and mirror). They don't require any numbers or math ... just visuals.
What about them. If you want to know how to apply and adjust aim to account for both reverse and running spin, see the videos and info here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/effects/
You are correct. Thank you for pointing this out. FYI, I just added the following to the video description: CORRECTION: At 3:23, the spin diagram should show top right (running) spin, not top left (reverse). Sorry about that.
DrDaveBilliards Oh geez, no need to say sorry...thank you, again, for all you do! We are all indebted to you for all the knowledge you provide! Take care Dr. Dave!
Good eye. You are correct. I have this in the video description and pinned comment, but I know most people don't look at those: "CORRECTION: At 3:23, the spin diagram should show top right (running) spin, not top left (reverse). Sorry about that."
@@DrDaveBilliards Ohkay ! Sorry didn't read the description haha. Btw Dr. Dave, can you pls make a video about an accurate way to recognize a 30 degree cut shot without using our "V" fingers as a gauge as that might vary and not as accurate ? I think it's very very important to be able to accurately know if that's a 30 degree cut shot as it has a basic aimpoint ( edge of the OB ). We can easily add or subtract to know if the angle is more or less if we know exactly how a 30 degree cut shot looks like. It would mean a lot. Thanks.
@@DrDaveBilliards Thank you ! And I have one question Dr. Dave. Most of the times when I hit the ball hard it catches the OB thick and seems to undercut it. I am familiar with CIT, so does a very forceful shot undercuts the OB ? Thank you.
@@sayeedafridi9747 This is probably a stroke issue. CIT is usually less at faster speed, per the info here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/throw/speed-effects/
I'm probably missing something in sys 5, but can someone please explain how the line from the 11 to the rail is arrived at. Is it a continuation of a line drawn from the side pocket? If so, why? It seems that this is the initial line from which all the others are drawn so getting this right in the first place is vital. It seems that if a line from the CB to the OB was drawn and then the midpoint estimated, a line from this midpoint could then be drawn parallel to the short rail and where it touched the long rail would be the point to aim at to hit the 11 ball.
FYI, that technique is covered in detail via the videos and articles here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/mirror/ It might also help to watch that section of the video again, and try everything at the table. The initial line of the cue is an estimate (based on intuition) going through the center of the target ball (or through the center of the CB) at the expected angle relative to the rail.
@@DrDaveBilliards Thank you Dave. That video showed where the initial line came from which answered my question nicely. I also noted that you had covered my attempt at measuring from the mid point of the 2 balls. However, the point to aim at with the mirror system looks to be about the same on the diagram as simply drawing a line from the midpoint parallel with a short rail and aiming at where that hits the rail. You've probably tried this already and found it doesn't work but I'll be going to the bar tomorrow and will give it a whirl, with the mirror method as a fall back.
@@cueball5858 When one of the balls is a lot closer to the kicking rail or a lot farther away, the midpoint "cheat" doesn't work very well, especially when the angle is bigger.
@@DrDaveBilliards OK thank you Dave. And thanks for taking the time to reply to me. No doubt we'll be in contact again as I don't believe ANY pro pool player uses the penedulum stroke. Only the flat, level, piston stroke. The pendulum stroke gives the player a fraction of a second to have everything right, whereas with the piston stroke the cue is level throughout. The best example of this I've found is with the snooker player Neil Robertson. You can see it here if you have time: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-ly1VWeIcleA.html All the best
If you want an even simpler presentation of the most useful systems, see my "Aim KICKS and BANKS Like a Pro … The Only DIAMOND SYSTEM You Need to Know" video: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-4QWcQhytefI.html Enjoy!
The video covered several common multiple-cushion kick-shot systems. They can also be applied to banks with some adjustment. Another two-rail banking system can be found here! billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/two-rail/
Anytime you want to know what a billiards term or phrase means, you can find it here: billiards.colostate.edu/glossary/ rail groove: an imaginary line parallel to the rail where the base of a ball sits when it is frozen to the cushion. It is sometimes visible on a worn table. An illustration is available here: billiards.colostate.edu/tutorial/kicks-and-banks/
@@Snowbag1998 I've actually never leveled my table before. I have my table guy do that when he changes the cloth. The last time he came, I wanted to video tape him doing the whole process, but I was busy with something else. Maybe next time.
@@DrDaveBilliards Have a 15-20 year old 9' Diamond Professional that i was blessed with that after the movers and Simonis Tournament Blue cloth to replace the terrible old cloth i didn't have another $600, so after a week of videos I proceeded to do it myself and am very happy with it, ill do the rails next time lol. Thank you very much for all your help. Best pool videos bar none. First book on pool was from Mr. Byrne , I thought you seemed familiar for some reason.
I did some successful bank shots which are kinda rare. it appears that I have control the hitting speed the cue ball. As well as controlling my emotions. By the way, the cue that using is a Lucky McDermott Maroon Cue(that has high deflection ) which I'm going to retire it and change to Predator Cues someday.
This is a standard 9' regulation-size Olhausen. If it looks smaller, it might be because I am tall (6'3"). Most pro pool players you see in video are much shorter.
DrDaveBilliards I cant believe you replied you have Taught me so many things but my dad has a 10 feet table and we play every day he tells me to watch you to get better
I see exact angles. I use zero “aiming systems”. I don’t even look at the target pocket in most cases, especially for end rail to corner banks. I just ‘know’ exactly where it is at. My aiming system is simply decades of experience where I concentrate on and use banks at a far higher rate than nearly all players. I shoot off entire racks banking every shot. I have an eight ball game where one must “bank in, bank out, and bank eight”. Which means you must bank the first ball in your rank, the last ball in your rank, and the eight. It is just two squares folks (the table geometry). It really isn’t that hard once you get it. I shoot within seconds of approaching a shot, so all this “aim it up” crap never enters my method.
"Intuition based on lots of past successful experience" is the best "aiming system" out there. For the people who don't yet have perfect intuition, the systems and knowledge/understanding of effects can be helpful.
I will consider it, but the purpose of my videos isn't to show off or show misses. My purpose is to explain and demonstrate how the systems work. I'll be the first to admit that I don't apply them perfectly every time. There is still some feel involved with judging cut-induced spin, and tip-contact-point accuracy is also very important.
