Top 10 Enemies of Gaming 

Y’all need to do more anger inducing ones with Camilla.

a story about Chris's #7: When Android: Netrunner was still being published by FFG, I went to a local game store to buy the expansion packs. I made a conscious effort to buy it there rather than online. I met a guy there who also played a bit of ANR, so we set up a day to play together at that place. The day came, we met and started playing. It was so incredibly cold that I was wearing my coat and still shivering. But that wasn't the worst part. At some point a member of the staff was walking by, looked at our table and shouted (and I mean shouted) to my opponent: "Look at you, playing Netrunner like a cunt!" These two probably know each other and the guy likely wasn't offended, but I was also there, playing Netrunner! Needless to say, I never came back. Even back then I was an experienced board game player. But imagine I was a total novice, somebody trying to get into a new hobby. How likely would I be to continue down this path?

Mike, Camilla, and Chris make an excellent trio. Wonderful chemistry - more videos, please!

No massive asterisk here, Mike makes every video better. He brings a very fun persona.

To just shout out a good opposite to Chris's gatekeeping note, the Spirit Island subreddit is the most welcoming board game space on the internet that I've encountered, despite the numerous chances to one-up people or trash their difficulty preferences on such a scalable game. Genuinely my favorite place to hang out and welcome new players and learn from people with 10,000 plays.

After 15 years on BGG (much, much less frequently now), the recommended player count has certainly become the most useful to me too.

Mike was the funniest I've seen him in this video. Some nice humour on display and was refreshing to see him in a top 10 not constantly the butt of the joke.

Great list. One of mine which ties into the time concept is the setup/takedown time of games. A 30-45 minute game and I have an hour, thats great. 30+ minutes later I still haven't gotten the game set up yet. Thanks to the kickstarter bloat you all mentioned, some of mine almost never get played since it would take me over an hour to sift through and remove everything that I don't need and get the game setup. It drives me crazy when I end up spending more time not playing the game than I do playing the game.

Camilla, amazing analysis here - my favourite video of your thus far. Need a spin off now, 'Camilla says it how it is'. Love it, love it!! Awesome work Mike and Chris too but Camilla this was yours

I love when Chris said 'People that complain' and for a brief pause I was like 'That's what this video is all about, man!' :-D Also, it's important to remember that there is objective criticism on games. For example, the amount of luck, lack of agency. Games without agency blend together. They may be a fun experience but they are not games so much. Anyway, 3 things on my list would be: A. The fact gamers can simply intimidate non gamers by being so serious about the hobby. It ties into Chris's #3 and Camilla's #1. It deters new people from being familiar with games and the offering of the board game world today. B. The fact that even if it improved, for most non gamers, board games are still 'the thing you buy for kids at a toy store', not realizing there are different levels of quality, and variety of genres to find a game they would like, and their kids of all ages would like, and those games should change as kids grow up so they will continue to challenge. C. Good games that were never really available. Due to price, or limited availability. Yet, the few who have them can rave about them and they'll appear in top lists and get high bgg ratings (which they deserve but that's what makes the people who never had a chance to get them, to hear about them). It's not the same as just 'out of print'. There are too many good games who were so pricey, or were only available for a brief period... They can make the hobby feel frustrating, and increase the FOMO you mentioned because you are afraid to miss the next game with a short life window. Hence 'enemies'.

So I think Chris & Camilla have a lot of respect for each other and different personalities /presentations that they make a very interesting duo when discussing the same topic. More Top 10"s with these two, please! 👍

Camilla's number 1 steals the show. The biggest problem in gaming is the focus on the games and not the act of playing them. Be present and enjoy time with others

Takebacks. There's someone I played with a few times lately that will wait until the next player has started their turn, or even finished, and say "wait, can I change...?" and undo and redo their entire turn while we all wait for them to take essentially a second turn.

Daaang SUCH a good video! All of these are so true, and many of us are guilty of pushing people out of the hobby, or at least making it less accessible (I certainly have been). Ultimately I just play games to nerd out with people that I enjoy spending time with, and fun is the most important thing.

The best part of this list is knowing the things that I need to look out for in my own behaviors. We all have times when our alpha gamer or AP come out. It is lists like this that keep us aware and able to (hopefully) recognize when we are guilty. As far as the 3-2-1 thing, it sounds like a countdown to something bad.

People on their cellphones during our co-op game. Definitely # 1 for me.

Mikes number 5: you definitely have to read the room. I don't mind long turns but if its taking you 2x or longer than everyone else every time you are sacrificing the enjoyment of others. That said, I do NOT mind someone squeezing points at the end even if you know they won. Its fun to see people get high scores

The biggest enemy of board gaming is “forgotten deodorant”

Great list, guys! My favorite type of list, the “gripes”! And you guys knocked it out of the park. 👍🏼

Only on number nine and already this is a great list! Looking forward to the rest!

Chris' number 1 is spot on. There are definately some channels that push this.. " I really enjoyed my time with this game but now I'm moving on from it after 2 plays because I just bought ten new games, hey aren't I hip? "

Ooooo blind play testing is such a good one!! Eyes and ears open, mouths shut. My friends and I played Charterstone and all 3 of us hated the whole experience. Frustrating, confusing, the rules constantly changing, no sense of accomplishment despite winning like 8 of 12 games. We ended up finding out that we had been playing some parts wrong, but we couldn't tell since there were so many things happening and changes going on and the rules aren't very specific and the nature of the game means you don't want to look anything up online. It could have at least been smoothed out if they had watched someone, who's never played a campaign style boardgame, play through it.

Nice list folks ! FOMO had almost killed the hobby for me. I realised I had 50+ games untested in my shelves: from there I apply a strict "one in; one out" rule and feeling much better :)

Great video! And thank you, Camilla. Your number 1 was spot on.

Chris' #1 is ON POINT. I'm a game PLAYER, not a game SNOB. I'll buy a new game after I've played it or seen reviews and know my group will like it. I've owned hundreds of games, kept some and traded others, but ALL of them got played. I refuse to give in to Kickstarter FOMO and spoil the fun I have RIGHT NOW - we could be dead by next week, so let's play what we already know we love!

Great video guys! It was a nice reality check.

Great choices, thanks for all you do!

I'm surprised the small text/clashing colors/readability problems with our hobby isn't talked about more. My near vision is pretty good; just had an eye exam a month ago and it's close enough to where it's supposed to be that even the weakest nearsight lenses wouldn't really help it any, and even I have issues reading a lot of these cards and boards sometimes in games especially if there isn't perfect direct light on them.

One of the best videos you all have made!

This provides excellent points and discussion all the way through.

This was a really good video and I unfortunately need to work on some of this stuff. Thank you.😊

This is an excellent trio for top 10 list. Great group chemistry!

Oh man. Bad game stores is so true. I hate going into games that are primarily card shops because i feel like I'm such an inconvenience to them forcing them to get up from their game.

Best session I've seen so far! Thanks a lot! Bad rulebooks is my number one by far...

Thank you, really enjoyed this discussion

Great video guys!

My compliments to the pictures accompanying the picks it was well done. Whoever picked those did a solid job. I giggled a bit at Chris' cult of the future. Where the image was taken from, was set in the relative Greek Peloponnesian war timeframe where it was a cult of the very distant past.

I cannot believe Cheeto fingers wasn't everyone's number one. 😳

Loved loved loved Ranting Camilla!!!! Great trio, great points! My top pet peeves are random box sizes and inconsiderate people!

Very interesting list thank you very much. For me one of the biggest enemies of board gaming is time. So many games not enough time to play them all as many times as I would like. Great video 👍👍

Really loved this one!

Great video!

AP is one I couldn’t agree with more. When you are playing 3x as much game as everyone else maybe try to speed up a bit.

As a relatively new father, kids are absolutely an enemy to my gaming! I've also had to curb my FOMO as there are just too many games not getting played.

Wonderful discussion! I hope it makes me a better gamer and host!

Excellent video and list. Liked the honest strong emotions and felt almost all of them, except board game shops cause I don't know any in my vicinity. 😅

That offscreen gasp was legend😆👌🔥

Some really great points here. One of mine is bad internal storage in game boxes. The issue is so bad there are third party companies who have built businesses out of this. The idea of shelling out 50-75% of the game value again on storage to assist you getting a game on/off the table is plain rude. Just laziness by the publishers/designers. BUT I am so thankful when publishers make this a consideration. Parks is such a stellar example of this consideration. I'd love to see more of this from others.

To be honest, all the bad sportsmanship comments reminded me of watching Roy on a live play where he moped and complained when he thought he was doing poorly and then started talking smack when it turned out he was winning.

Anyone else notice that die over Mike's left shoulder is wrong. The 3 and 4 are on opposite sides of a standard d6 so you'd never see them both at the same time.

To sum up- Don’t be selfish or rude Do practice contentment Kids take time Great advice. I enjoyed watching

I stopped Kickstarter years ago and have zero regrets. I never stopped talking showers, so I enjoy smelling fresh.

I must say, I am a culprit of FOMO. I currently have over 100 games on my wishlist, not Including expansions, and I know full well that a lot of those are out of print, or are so ridiculously priced that I will probably never own them, and I get a bit bummed out about that. The problem with that, is that every new game I buy, it's lessening the probability of playing all the other games I own, so it's a double edged sword for me. It's good to take a break from buying games at some point, just as you guys said, so you can appreciate the ones you've got more.

I can’t believe you all didn’t use a screenshot from the intro to Play it Live for Mikes #1!!!

Gonna put "That's on you" on a t-shirt 😋 to frighten board game companies at cons. Great list, great video, love the passion.

This was a great list. I wish publishers would listen to it.

One of the best Top 10s, hands down

Great compilation....by the way: the big red dice on the shelf has the 3 right next to the 4🤔... I was looking the hole movie on this dice....nevertheless: keep going and greetings from the black forest

Camilla, I'm the same when it comes to Everdell the complete collection. I love having everything in one box, and it's awesome. But you're right, it has made it harder to play Everdell. I used to play it tons--my wife and I recorded 18 plays of it last year--but since the complete collection showed up we have gotten it to the table all of once. Makes me glad I kept my copy of the base game just because at least it's so much easier to pull out or take to a game night.

Camilla, a big Amen on recommended player count! I just played Le Havre at DTW with four players, having been warned when my friend and I joined the game that it was not the best player count. I've played it once at 3 players and really liked it and wanted to introduce my friend to it. Oh, boy! It was far worse at 4 players (me going last) than I had anticipated. Starting out one turn short, then missing a couple of possible plays, and being shut out of some actions as players didn't move thier worker made a huge difference - I lost by 99 points. It'll be a long time before I play it again.

I love this list. Funny thing is, although I’m relatively new to board gaming, I realized I don’t like the anxiety that games not yet released causes in me. So I’ve been enjoying videos of top 20/100 from years past. If the game is still hot, available, and in my budget, THEN I’m in.

Camilla nailed the Everdell box issue. I haven't gotten mine out either since sorting and putting away.

this list is absolute fire. all publishers should watch this

Best video in ages, every point is dead on

I think there's a huge difference between saying I don't like X or this rule doesn't make sense and "shaming other people for liking something" or making things a bad experience. It's often a matter of tone and intent.

11:00 I hear that. Even learning rules is harder with a baby around

I know someone who is always pessimistic, and vocal about it, while playing board games. He always says he is going to loose, even if he end up winning. On top of that, he has to analyse every action possible during his turn. We frequently have to wait at least 1 minute just so he can start taking actions during his turn.

My cat is a top 10 enemy of gaming. Those meeples are NOT edible

Player Aids, help get a game to the table after any amount of time. I tend to only play a game once in a given amount of time so if I can set it up and start playing looking at a player aid instead of having to completely reread the entire instruction manual, it's much, much more likely to return to the table!

Gotta love Chris Ye and his point regarding no.6: bad rule teach. three words "watch it played". Rodney is an absolute legend and I always make everyone watch a video 1st. Rodders is the best. others will do if he hasn't done a vid. I'm excitable, forgetful and will literally bounce around the rules, basically i'm crap at teaching and will happily let the masters do the job

man the dice in the background of this video was bugging me and i just found out why. The red dice does not have properly 6 sided dice prints. 3 and 4 should be opposite of each other. outside that some good list.

On player AP: I don't mind people APing in a deep and heavy game, because I'll be doing the same (I've been particularly guilty of not APing enough because I don't want people to not have fun) but when someone takes 20 minutes in a game that requires almost no brain power, that's where a I get frustrated. 2 particularly egregious examples 1. A competitive game where 1 player took 10 minutes on his turn and the other took 30 seconds: COMBINED (this game wasn't that simple, but it was simple for people who weren't experts at it) 2. A cooperative game where everyone else was taking 20 minutes per turn and I took 30 seconds because the optimal decisions in the game were very very simple to discern

I just can't understand how such a great video has so few likes...

Great video! I agree with all of these, but as an aging gamer (in my forties, not eighties), I have to echo Mike's plea for legible font. Gorgeous, potentially great games have been ruined for me because my partner and I can no longer read the cards. It's especially bad when playing at a pub or someone else's place where the lighting isn't bright enough. Most egregious are cards with plenty of space allotted to text and iconography that still have everything printed really small, surrounded by empty space. Wild Serengeti, I'm looking at you. I think that this also goes back to the point about blind playtesting, to make sure that your games as produced are *accessible* to players of different ages and under suboptimal conditions.

I didn't hear food on anyone's list, so I'll bring the pizza. Lol. Great list y'all.

That surreal moment when a Dice Tower top 10 has two pictures of people you know personally in it haha. (AA-Ron, Ace Hardware guy)

The two games I helped playtest for GMT, they had us, people from outside the company, proof the rules…not for spelling errors etc, but for playability errors. They do a great job with that. And it is needed as they aren’t always easy rules for the games they produce.

Mike is sooo spot on again and again. I really like his perspective

I completely agree with you about the use human weaknesses such as FOMO to get people's money. Also just want to mention that I like to see the more experienced and more self confident Camilla. Congratulations ! 😃

Awesome list guys! My list would include food/drinks, bad teachers, and bad sportsmanship.

Camilla is very Annie from Community in this vid! Amazing to see the passion!

I had to slow down a few years back because of Cult of the New and crowdfunding. I was getting a backlog I couldn't keep up with. Slowing down and being more mindful of what I had helped and now after those years I'm slowly reintroducing myself to gaming trends.

You know that they have just had it when their number 1s no longer sound angry or playful, they just sound disappointed.

Blind play-testers would be kinder than my friends LOL "What did you think?" "It would be better if it was fun." No joking when saying that hahahaha

Camilla’s #1: “Game Shaming/Intolerance” is sadly why I stopped using the DT Facebook group.

An interesting cathartic topic! Thank you! At Conventions I would follow the 10 hrs sleep x 4 meals x 1.5 wash rule. Board gaming is a lot of fun but I need my brain energy. 10 x10 challenge??? Had to look it up (10 games each played 10 times in a year?) We usually just pick the next 1 game, so we have the 1x1 challenge covered. Suggesting some Analysis Paralysis levels... AP-1 (Temporary), AP-10 (Newbies) AP-99 (Narcissism) I agree, observe who you are playing with. I'll add to shaming... People who enjoy passive TV entertainment, please do not shame people who like board gamers. They just like interactive entertainment with other people. Thank you... I need to go work on my rulebook, player aids, and teaching.

I love all three of you.

Not finished the video but mine is: People in the board game community who use quantity of games to prove their status as a gamer. I'm sure they are all really lovely people but there a billion board game instagram pages out there where 9/10 of their posts are either A. A post of them sitting behind a pile of 10+ games they picked up this week or B. A post in front of a kallax just talking about how many of their games they "got to the table today". If you own/play this many games thats fine, but don't make that the focus of your content/proving your worth. Talk about your experiences with the games and the people you play them with. Its been my favourite hobby for 10 years and I've still only ever played like 50-60 different games total let alone owned. Its doesn't mean I see myself as less of a gamer so showing off how many you own doesn't make me see you as a higher level of gamer either haha. Pet peeve rant over 😅

One of my top 10 (not sure where exactly in the list it would be) is the game shark, the person who lives and breathes a game so much that they have pretty much "solved" a board game. A great example of this would be a recent game of Twilight Imperium that my board game group played. One guy in our group plays TI4 so much on TTS that he was accurately naming people's action cards, faction abilities, and secret objective cards based solely on a brief description. We were all like, "Okay, we get it. You have everything memorized in this game. You can stop showing off now."

Have to agree with Mr Li's number 1. There is another RU-vidr (who shall remain unnamed) who was talking about how he refused to buy all of CMON's All-in Kickstarters while discussing Massive Darkness 2 because they had too much content - as if that's a bad thing, the reason being that you would never have time to play through them all before a newer game came out. I mean I totally disagreed with it but after what you said, didn't even realize it was a thing. Enjoy what you have right now, not what could be right around the corner for as morbid as it might sound, you might even be around that long.

Best Top 10 not featuring Tom and Zee. Well done, guys!

My son is 10 months old - i feel Chris' #10 so hard. We're only just now getting games back to the table. There was a period after he was born where I was convinced i was never going to play again. We've gotten better at pulling out short games after he goes to bed once a week now. 😢

Miniature market is my favorite local game store 😂 so it’s funny that camila said she paid full price instead of miniature market. It’s such a great store and their customer support is absolutely amazing.

It's not just the small print, it's the footprint of the entire game on the table. The most annoying thing is when you have a selection of cards you need to pick from that is on the other side of the table from people, and they have to get up and/or reach across the entire table to inspect them. This is where a smaller playing space and good symbolism works wonders.

Love that Ron Swanson quote, I use it all the time 😂

Related to Mike’s #8 is a little problem I have: I need to cull games because my shelves are full so I make a pile of games I MIGHT want to part with, then I need to play them all again to really make up my mind on the games. So I end up playing games I’m not sure about instead of the ones I want to play haha.

Here to rep Lucky Numbers. I'm a serious board gamer and that one (along with Yahtzee) is just a real good push-your-luck fun. People need to really not be so toxic and just let people have fun. Preach on, Cam-dawg!

That's why I love Top N lists because people talk about their favourite games rather than new ones and quite often, I can get a good deal on them second-hand. I'm going to really try to be selective about crowdfunding games I back this year, especially after receiving a dud and also companies going out of business and backers not receiving their games. I think I've missed out on so many great retail releases because I was only looking at crowdsurfing and it is all underpinned by FOMO. Most of my favourite gameshave been retail releases.

At this point I have stopped buying board games and I will do so for a while. I have a big collection and I haven't played some of these AMAZING games in years. That's why I've started bringing out the "old" games again and I know I won't get bored for years.

#1 Bad Rule Books.